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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Masao Kurata
Perkone Caldari State
355
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 21:18:30 -
[61] - Quote
I quit EVE. |
flesh tearer
Sneaky Git Industry
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 21:18:34 -
[62] - Quote
can will now get bonuses on logi ships for using hull reppers |
Jin Kugu
Scanners Anonymous
28
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 21:18:37 -
[63] - Quote
This is such a bad and unimaginative change.
Freighters are in a fine place. Don't believe me? Go look at Jita, Uedama or Niarja. People use freighters a lot even though there are plenty alternatives that are almost unkillable. DSTs, blockade runners, JFs are all almost immune in high sec if properly flown.
I guess ccp dumped the whole analysis thing when it comes to ganking nerfs? How many freighters die to a gank per 1000 freighter jumps? How many freighter die to wardecks compared to ganking? |
Makoto Priano
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd. Arataka Research Consortium
8044
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 21:19:51 -
[64] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Makoto Priano wrote:5pitf1re wrote:"Syndicate Signal Damage Control"? Seconded. Syndicate Signal? Any relation to this? Copy/paste error.
Well, bugger.
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
2919
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 21:24:34 -
[65] - Quote
Exeqs should get hull repping bonuses for their drones.
JUSTK is recruiting.
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Light Combat Drone
Bearded BattleBears I N F A M O U S
1
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Posted - 2016.02.11 21:25:58 -
[66] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Here's the most recent iteration of the numbers: How about varying the proportion of resist between shield/armor/hull it gives between different models? As it stands everyone will be using T2 always or the highest meta they can afford. If you varied these %s slightly, there would be compelling reasons to use specific versions of the module on specific ships.
Ex. a 15/7.5/30 model vs a 10/7.5/40 |
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
331
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 21:26:42 -
[67] - Quote
Berry Nice wrote:So let me get this straight:
Wreck shooting in highsec (mostly of freighers) was a very cheap, (less than 2 mil isk per thrasher) nearly impossible to counter method of destroying tens to hundreds of billions of loot. Fixing this to at least require more than 2 million (doable with 70 million now) was absolutely the right call.
But now freighters are (on top of previous EHP buffs over the years, and the addition of bulkheads) gained another 12-30% EHP no matter how they are fit.
Are you saying you fixing a broken mechanic (which only appeared in the last 3 months anyway) caused you to want to increase the EHP of freighters?
edit: let me say this
A fully bulkheaded anshar in a 0.5 would require just shy of 30 taloses to be ganked in a perfect situation. Not only is that 4-5 billion in ships, but you need 30 people, on standby, ready to do it.
lol crying cause your cheap risk free ganks are getting nerfed..
Into the bucket dear...
"... ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where is eve placed... not in cave..."-á | zoonr-Korsairs |-á QFT !
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Jin Kugu
Scanners Anonymous
28
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Posted - 2016.02.11 21:28:01 -
[68] - Quote
How many expanded freighters die compared to bulkheaded ones? 1/20 would be my guess
Maybe that's a hint that freighter pilots are making decisions that lead to their death? It also proves that ehp is not really the issue. |
Aiwha
Infinite Point Northern Army
914
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 21:28:07 -
[69] - Quote
Querns wrote:Agent Known wrote: You're forgetting that many ganked freighters have a bunch of loot which is the whole point of the gank to begin with (unless you're bored and gank an empty JF).
Yes, more manpower will be required and it will increase the floor of when it's profitable to gank based on cargo contents (so, more than 1b in a freighter to maybe 1.5b before profitability? Not sure how many extra ships). Suicide ganking is a zero-risk exercise, so there should be more of a cost to essentially get billions in loot that's still quite an amount even if split between more people.
Far be it for you to exercise a modicum of restraint in your cargo value when transiting known dangerous areas, or *gasp* not transiting them at all. Limiting your loot value not only reduces the likelihood that you'll be targeted, but it also reduces the potential payout to the gankers. You can also use the humble Jump Freighter's built-in jump drive to transit past the choke points to reduce your risk further.
Maybe you just need to pick better targets?
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
Aiwha for CSM XI
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Silver Isu
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.02.11 21:28:21 -
[70] - Quote
Hendrink Collie wrote:Silver Isu wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:The impact is Freighters, but we like to pair buff and nerfs to suicide ganking to keep things in balance, and after the February Wreck HP change these ships can handle a bit more tank without the "predator and prey" environment being thrown out of whack. So you fixed a completely broken, uncounterable mechanic. This does not justify a massive blanket buff to freighter EHP. Not speaking about all the other gank targets as well. Gankers punish people for stupidity. Untanked people oblivious to their surroundings are prime targets. Now you are seriously nerfing ganking by giving all gank targets a free EHP buff. During the past few years CCP has shown a consistent trend to nerf ganking. Every "buff" has been met with several nerfs, so the predator and prey environment is already out of whack. You hiding behind a freshly made alt account aside, ganking has become a well-oiled machine. They need a new wrench every now and then. Things were getting way too easy for the gank crowd. Guess you will have to adjust accordingly.
So every time someone makes a good tactic to something just nerf it instead of wait for the opposition to come up with something? Ganking is extremely rare and very few freighters die, so called "anti-gankers" have no organization what so ever.
With your logic I think we could nerf pretty much everything in game, since people have figured out great tactics for them. |
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Jin Kugu
Scanners Anonymous
28
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Posted - 2016.02.11 21:30:02 -
[71] - Quote
helana Tsero wrote:Berry Nice wrote:So let me get this straight:
Wreck shooting in highsec (mostly of freighers) was a very cheap, (less than 2 mil isk per thrasher) nearly impossible to counter method of destroying tens to hundreds of billions of loot. Fixing this to at least require more than 2 million (doable with 70 million now) was absolutely the right call.
But now freighters are (on top of previous EHP buffs over the years, and the addition of bulkheads) gained another 12-30% EHP no matter how they are fit.
Are you saying you fixing a broken mechanic (which only appeared in the last 3 months anyway) caused you to want to increase the EHP of freighters?
edit: let me say this
A fully bulkheaded anshar in a 0.5 would require just shy of 30 taloses to be ganked in a perfect situation. Not only is that 4-5 billion in ships, but you need 30 people, on standby, ready to do it. lol crying cause your cheap risk free ganks are getting nerfed.. Into the bucket dear...
Miniluv and Code spend more isk than most null sec alliances. There is nothing cheap about ganking.
Anyone that think ganking groups are rich is ********. Yes we have some isk after 5 years of ganking every day. If we all ran incursions we would be trillionaires.
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Sissy Fuzz
Sissy Fuzz Communications
75
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Posted - 2016.02.11 21:30:10 -
[72] - Quote
Tabyll Altol wrote:So finally the freighters get their buff so they can be safer while autopiloting through eve, because we need more afk work in eve.
NOT!
But nice thing about the Damgecontrols.
-1 to freighterbuff
+1 for the damagecontrols What do you care if people are afk. Mind your own business.
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3762
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 21:30:10 -
[73] - Quote
Berry Nice wrote:......
edit: let me say this
A fully bulkheaded anshar in a 0.5 would require just shy of 30 taloses to be ganked in a perfect situation. Not only is that 4-5 billion in ships, but you need 30 people, on standby, ready to do it. Then don't do it. Eve is a big game. There are plenty of other things to do.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
2201
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 21:30:11 -
[74] - Quote
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:Black Pedro wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote: The impact is Freighters, but we like to pair buff and nerfs to suicide ganking to keep things in balance, I'm not sure freighters need to be any safer, but at least I am glad you are now on record saying that you "like to pair buff and nerfs to suicide ganking". History has shown that has not been your development stance in the past, but I will now know not to worry too much if another nerf to suicide ganking is announced as a buff will be right around the corner. I'm sure that they are aware how skewed things are towards gankers. While not the ultimate solution, this change at least shows that the guys in development are aware of the need to balance the field somewhat, so I'm looking forward to future changes of looting (and maybe even bumping) mechanics. Also, very interesting change overall. It is an interesting change - it will shake up ship balance everywhere which is always a good thing.
But didn't you read what the man wrote? They like to pair buffs and nerfs when it comes to suicide ganking. And changes to looting or bumping that nerf the activity of suicide ganking will come with corresponding buffs for the gankers. Conversly, this change is being made to balance out the benefits of easier looting that gankers are currently enjoying courtesy of CCP's last change.
Nothing stays the same - ships, modules, and mechanics can and do change. But suicide ganking isn't going away. Freighters are still going to regularly explode after this change and will after any hypothetical changes to looting or bumping.
I see no evidence that CCP thinks things are "skewed" in any way - more like things are working pretty much as intended as Fozzie said above. If they do, they certainly keeping secret about it and moving at a glacial pace. I think that may just be a case of wishful thinking on your part. |
helana Tsero
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
331
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 21:33:43 -
[75] - Quote
Jin Kugu wrote:helana Tsero wrote:Berry Nice wrote:So let me get this straight:
Wreck shooting in highsec (mostly of freighers) was a very cheap, (less than 2 mil isk per thrasher) nearly impossible to counter method of destroying tens to hundreds of billions of loot. Fixing this to at least require more than 2 million (doable with 70 million now) was absolutely the right call.
But now freighters are (on top of previous EHP buffs over the years, and the addition of bulkheads) gained another 12-30% EHP no matter how they are fit.
Are you saying you fixing a broken mechanic (which only appeared in the last 3 months anyway) caused you to want to increase the EHP of freighters?
edit: let me say this
A fully bulkheaded anshar in a 0.5 would require just shy of 30 taloses to be ganked in a perfect situation. Not only is that 4-5 billion in ships, but you need 30 people, on standby, ready to do it. lol crying cause your cheap risk free ganks are getting nerfed.. Into the bucket dear... Miniluv and Code spend more isk than most null sec alliances. There is nothing cheap about ganking. Anyone that think ganking groups are rich is ********. Yes we have some isk after 5 years of ganking every day. If we all ran incursions we would be trillionaires.
lol goons are the richest and most powerful organisation in the game...
brb ordering empty swimming pool.
"... ppl need to get out of caves and they will see something new... thats where is eve placed... not in cave..."-á | zoonr-Korsairs |-á QFT !
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Globby
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
309
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 21:34:35 -
[76] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:It's happening! but we like to pair buff and nerfs to suicide ganking to keep things in balance
where was the ganking buff post hyperdunking? |
Jin Kugu
Scanners Anonymous
28
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Posted - 2016.02.11 21:34:47 -
[77] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:Black Pedro wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote: The impact is Freighters, but we like to pair buff and nerfs to suicide ganking to keep things in balance, I'm not sure freighters need to be any safer, but at least I am glad you are now on record saying that you "like to pair buff and nerfs to suicide ganking". History has shown that has not been your development stance in the past, but I will now know not to worry too much if another nerf to suicide ganking is announced as a buff will be right around the corner. I'm sure that they are aware how skewed things are towards gankers. While not the ultimate solution, this change at least shows that the guys in development are aware of the need to balance the field somewhat, so I'm looking forward to future changes of looting (and maybe even bumping) mechanics. Also, very interesting change overall. It is an interesting change - it will shake up ship balance everywhere which is always a good thing. But didn't you read what the man wrote? They like to pair buffs and nerfs when it comes to suicide ganking. And changes to looting or bumping that nerf the activity of suicide ganking will come with corresponding buffs for the gankers. Conversly, this change is being made to balance out the benefits of easier looting that gankers are currently enjoying courtesy of CCP's last change. Nothing stays the same - ships, modules, and mechanics can and do change. But suicide ganking isn't going away. Freighters are still going to regularly explode after this change and will after any hypothetical changes to looting or bumping. I see no evidence that CCP thinks things are "skewed" in any way - more like things are working pretty much as intended as Fozzie said above. If they do, they certainly keeping secret about it and moving at a glacial pace. I think that may just be a case of wishful thinking on your part.
You're dumb. Wreck shooting was an unstoppable mechanic done by 1 guy. Freighter ganking is easy to stop if you bring the same amount of people as the gankers.
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Jin Kugu
Scanners Anonymous
28
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Posted - 2016.02.11 21:37:32 -
[78] - Quote
Quote:helana Tsero wrote: Miniluv and Code spend more isk than most null sec alliances. There is nothing cheap about ganking.
Anyone that think ganking groups are rich is ********. Yes we have some isk after 5 years of ganking every day. If we all ran incursions we would be trillionaires.
lol goons are the richest and most powerful organisation in the game... brb ordering empty swimming pool.
Goons finances and ganking aren't related in any way. |
Hendrink Collie
Blood Oath Foundation Adaptation.
86
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 21:38:52 -
[79] - Quote
Silver Isu wrote:Hendrink Collie wrote:Silver Isu wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:The impact is Freighters, but we like to pair buff and nerfs to suicide ganking to keep things in balance, and after the February Wreck HP change these ships can handle a bit more tank without the "predator and prey" environment being thrown out of whack. So you fixed a completely broken, uncounterable mechanic. This does not justify a massive blanket buff to freighter EHP. Not speaking about all the other gank targets as well. Gankers punish people for stupidity. Untanked people oblivious to their surroundings are prime targets. Now you are seriously nerfing ganking by giving all gank targets a free EHP buff. During the past few years CCP has shown a consistent trend to nerf ganking. Every "buff" has been met with several nerfs, so the predator and prey environment is already out of whack. You hiding behind a freshly made alt account aside, ganking has become a well-oiled machine. They need a new wrench every now and then. Things were getting way too easy for the gank crowd. Guess you will have to adjust accordingly. So every time someone makes a good tactic to something just nerf it instead of wait for the opposition to come up with something? Ganking is extremely rare and very few freighters die, so called "anti-gankers" have no organization what so ever. With your logic I think we could nerf pretty much everything in game, since people have figured out great tactics for them.
Nice slippery slope there.
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Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Bunnyhopping days
290
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 21:39:49 -
[80] - Quote
Lovely discussion of the topic by guys that went HTFU just a few threads before (hing: Bumping and looting mechanics proposals + wreck changes). Love you guys. |
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Masao Kurata
Perkone Caldari State
356
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 21:43:15 -
[81] - Quote
Just flip off the pvp switch already, stop pretending you care. |
Light Combat Drone
Bearded BattleBears I N F A M O U S
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 21:44:06 -
[82] - Quote
Silver Isu wrote:Ganking is extremely rare and very few freighters die, so called "anti-gankers" have no organization what so ever. Today alone, 30 capital transport ships (JF, freighter, orca) were killed. |
QuickSwipe Collier
Deep Space Whaling Crew Something To Fear
2
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Posted - 2016.02.11 21:44:37 -
[83] - Quote
I do hope you are taking the appropriate steps to ensure that the overall EHP of freighters does not increase via a minor buffer reduction on hull, otherwise you risk a further nerf to hisec ganking which as we all know is already difficult enough as it is. Gankers have managed fine on dealing with 500 EHP wrecks, though the occasional troll thrasher is indeed annoying it isin't game changing. But increasing the hull buffer would be very skewed in favor of nerfing ganking. If you are going to buff freighters at least give the tornado a rate of fire bonus so a 3% hardwire would get 2 volleys off in a .9 system, that would be fair |
Malon Kreed
No Kreed
1
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Posted - 2016.02.11 21:46:01 -
[84] - Quote
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:Lovely discussion of the topic by guys that went HTFU just a few threads before (hing: Bumping and looting mechanics proposals + wreck changes). Love you guys. But why didn't Anti-ganking save the Hulk? |
bigbud skunkafella
Not The Usual Suspects
15
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Posted - 2016.02.11 21:48:23 -
[85] - Quote
Jin Kugu wrote:helana Tsero wrote:Berry Nice wrote:So let me get this straight:
Wreck shooting in highsec (mostly of freighers) was a very cheap, (less than 2 mil isk per thrasher) nearly impossible to counter method of destroying tens to hundreds of billions of loot. Fixing this to at least require more than 2 million (doable with 70 million now) was absolutely the right call.
But now freighters are (on top of previous EHP buffs over the years, and the addition of bulkheads) gained another 12-30% EHP no matter how they are fit.
Are you saying you fixing a broken mechanic (which only appeared in the last 3 months anyway) caused you to want to increase the EHP of freighters?
edit: let me say this
A fully bulkheaded anshar in a 0.5 would require just shy of 30 taloses to be ganked in a perfect situation. Not only is that 4-5 billion in ships, but you need 30 people, on standby, ready to do it. lol crying cause your cheap risk free ganks are getting nerfed.. Into the bucket dear... Miniluv and Code spend more isk than most null sec alliances. There is nothing cheap about ganking. Anyone that thinks ganking groups are rich is ********. Yes we have some isk after 5 years of ganking every day. If we all ran incursions we would be trillionaires.
if miniluv and code are feeling the pinch isk wise , then perhaps not targetting empty freighters for lols might help a bit. just sayin...
just need to fix looting directly into a dst fleet hangar without dst going suspect to even things out a bit now wrecks are pretty much guaranteed not to be popped. |
QuickSwipe Collier
Deep Space Whaling Crew Something To Fear
2
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Posted - 2016.02.11 21:48:56 -
[86] - Quote
Malon Kreed wrote:Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:Lovely discussion of the topic by guys that went HTFU just a few threads before (hing: Bumping and looting mechanics proposals + wreck changes). Love you guys. But why didn't Anti-ganking save the Hulk? You can't save what is already dead. |
Jin Kugu
Scanners Anonymous
28
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 21:53:15 -
[87] - Quote
Light Combat Drone wrote:Silver Isu wrote:Ganking is extremely rare and very few freighters die, so called "anti-gankers" have no organization what so ever. Today alone, 30 capital transport ships (JF, freighter, orca) were killed.
How many died to ganks though? |
Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders
606
|
Posted - 2016.02.11 21:57:38 -
[88] - Quote
FW LP store DCU, did you not make it to the list!?
Black Fox Marauders is Recruiting
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Black Wardog
Grey Frog Bureaucracy
0
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Posted - 2016.02.11 21:58:31 -
[89] - Quote
LOL Freighter ganking is PVP? Since when? Freighter ganking is pve like the starters mission where you need to loose your ship to get it done. Most freighters are ap and so controlled not by players but by an ai (and a bad one indeed)
I dont quite see the hate about the ap. It is fine to earn money with: PI Trade Research Toon growing and selling (and now sp trading) Production Moons
And all AFK, but when a ship flies unattended it's bad? Not saying that they should prevent shooting it. Afterall they are game :)
But the earlier named ways to earn money are all, almost, totally safe. No one interferes when you do production, research or trading or research. So be happy with the ap pilots. They give you the opportunity at least to interact with their making money :) and prevent it. Thats not carebearing compared to PI.
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Vic Jefferson
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
886
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Posted - 2016.02.11 22:00:35 -
[90] - Quote
bigbud skunkafella wrote:if miniluv and code are feeling the pinch isk wise , then perhaps not targetting empty freighters for lols might help a bit. just sayin...
AFK is AFK. If you are careless, you should be punished - severely. It's what makes EvE, EvE. It should be viable and practical to be the agents of enforcing risk.
Much of the entire problem with the game now is that almost nothing is risky, or that it takes a herculean amount of effort to supply a little bit of risk.
Make EvE scary again, let people create risk, and it becomes exciting again.
Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM XI
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