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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5288
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Posted - 2016.02.16 16:46:45 -
[451] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:stg slate wrote:Avvy wrote: The only thing that makes sense to me with this post I'm replying to, is that sp injectors can be addictive.
Yeah, but so can trading cards, but people are making it seem like the pokemon people making trading cards is like heroin dealer targeting children. You might not not have kids that live with you, because that's exactly how it feels.. I suffered a pokemon war in my own house. Kids are grown now but looking back over those battles I'd rather they'd just smoked weed or something... Death to pokemon. Its true, spaceships are like pokemon.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Scott Dracov
Isogen 5
169
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Posted - 2016.02.16 16:48:44 -
[452] - Quote
I hate this sh!#
Not even going to bother saying why because pretty much all of eve said no to this and CCP said: "F@#$ You! Pay Me!"
But you will break the game CCP... "F@#$ You! Pay Me!"
But doing this makes EVE not special... "F@#$ You! Pay Me!" |
stg slate
We're Kind of a Big Deal
66
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Posted - 2016.02.16 16:50:10 -
[453] - Quote
Big Lynx wrote:Dayum, I can see the briefing of the controllling department in CCP's HQ before announcing SP-Trading. That decision must have been one of the hardest for CCP Devs. I am pretty sure of that.
It's not easy to see the long term consquences for the health of the game, but my gut feeling tells me that they will be not for good advantage. EvE has reached or fell down to the level of average MMOs. *sigh*
What about EVE made you think it wasn't like every MMO? All the EVE is real marketing nonsense?
It is like every MMO except it has a weird skill system and slightly rougher death penalty than most(not all, rather lose a ship than die during EQ classic times).
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
329
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Posted - 2016.02.16 16:51:13 -
[454] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:The Character Bazaar - even though I don't like it was not too bad. Character trading is going to happen anyway in an MMOG, whether it's allowed or not. So, I think it's better to allow it in a regulated, controlled fashion than to let it run wild on ebay.
Well then if people except the bazaar then they shouldn't have any problem with sp injectors.
Characters from the bazaar already tainted the purity of the sp tree. The fact it was an out of game process ment that most people didn't even notice. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
329
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Posted - 2016.02.16 16:53:07 -
[455] - Quote
Scott Dracov wrote:I hate this sh!#
Not even going to bother saying why because pretty much all of eve said no to this and CCP said: F@#$ You!
With the amount of sales of sp injectors, I'd say that it seems like a lot said yes to sp extractors/injectors.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
13666
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Posted - 2016.02.16 16:56:09 -
[456] - Quote
stg slate wrote:Magic cards, same drug different company All joking aside though, no one sucks a **** or stabs someone for pokemon cards. And they won't for injectors either.
Oh really?
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2239
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Posted - 2016.02.16 16:57:22 -
[457] - Quote
Avvy wrote:Well then if people except the bazaar then they shouldn't have any problem with sp injectors.
Characters from the bazaar already tainted the purity of the sp tree. The fact it was an out of game process ment that most people didn't even notice. Enlighten us how you get a max skill char over the bazaar previous to SP trading.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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stg slate
We're Kind of a Big Deal
66
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Posted - 2016.02.16 16:59:56 -
[458] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:stg slate wrote:Magic cards, same drug different company All joking aside though, no one sucks a **** or stabs someone for pokemon cards. And they won't for injectors either. Oh really?
Damned Kentucky, that's like America's America, I don't think it counts |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
329
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Posted - 2016.02.16 16:59:56 -
[459] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Avvy wrote:Well then if people except the bazaar then they shouldn't have any problem with sp injectors.
Characters from the bazaar already tainted the purity of the sp tree. The fact it was an out of game process ment that most people didn't even notice. Enlighten us how you get a max skill char over the bazaar previous to SP trading.
You wouldn't as there were no max skill characters, if there was then it would have been possible. |
Dyllan Ma'tar
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
12
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Posted - 2016.02.16 17:12:02 -
[460] - Quote
1. Be sketch RMT'er, have tons of isk from RMT.
2. Spend otherwise useless isk (21 hours logged in? He doesn't play the game, come on...) on skill injectors
3. Disgruntled players unwittingly make character into poster boy for hate, hits for RMT website go up slightly
4. ?????
5. Profit
> Do not stubbornly rebel against the ways of the world. Do not mindlessly follow the ways of the world. Think lightly of yourself and think deeply of the world. You can abandon your own body, but never let go of your honor. Miyamoto Musashi, Dokkodo
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Scott Dracov
Isogen 5
169
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Posted - 2016.02.16 17:20:42 -
[461] - Quote
Avvy wrote: With the amount of sales of sp injectors, I'd say that it seems like a lot said yes to sp extractors/injectors.
Diminishing returns and instant gratification are interesting human dynamics with fascinating side effects.
The SP barrier was broken by Character trading of any type from day 1 of EVE and is the root cause of the current new player dissatisfaction with EVE.
This kill the patient to heal them SP injector fiasco simply makes SP mandatory to have at level 5 in whatever your flying and make no mistake Corps and FC's will now be expecting you to be at level 5 in any ship that is FOTM right now and not in three months from now because everyone they are fighting could be or is at level 5 so that's the way it is now.
It's spilled milk at this point.
I paid my account years in advance planning to play EVE long term... I now have buyers remorse but might as well get my moneys worth even if most everything in EVE has no consequences and nothing matters as it can all be bypassed and manipulated beyond reason.
I gave CCP a lot of real cash for this subscription but the greedy F#@!s just love their money and always will degrade their product any way they can to get more it seems.
/pissed |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2610
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Posted - 2016.02.16 17:21:06 -
[462] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Avvy wrote:Well then if people except the bazaar then they shouldn't have any problem with sp injectors.
Characters from the bazaar already tainted the purity of the sp tree. The fact it was an out of game process ment that most people didn't even notice. Enlighten us how you get a max skill char over the bazaar previous to SP trading.
AS soon as you explain to me exactly what a maxed character can do that an army of alt can't. Especially since with the current diminishing return of SP injection, you can have a "perfect" army for less than a "perfect" character. |
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
28
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Posted - 2016.02.16 17:21:14 -
[463] - Quote
Samsara Toldya wrote:When JonnyPew extracted 100m+ SP CCP CEO Hilmar Veigar tweeted, that his mind was blown by this actionOr in other words: "We didn't see that coming!" Can't wait for his Tweet on what this thread is about. With his mind already blown away by JonnyPew I'm afraid IronBank might have blown Hilmars balls... in one way or the other.
Did you pay attention to what JonnyPew was saying? He did it for three main reasons:
1: To keep a record of him doing something so incredible that he could look back on it and recall it completely.
2: To show all of us how to work with the extractors/injectors
3: To move his active main from Sir Livingston to JonnyPew.
His 4th sub reason was 'to get rid of all the skills he had trained that he'd trained just to keep his character training'.
This is EXACTLY what the entire SP Trading was intended to be for, so maybe the CEO's mind was blown by someone actually using it for what it was intended for.
JonnyPew demonstrated that he had to blow large amounts of his stored PLEX to get enough extractors to get the extractors. Then he LOST SP value in putting it into injectors and had to be careful not to inject too much to avoid the 70% penalty at 80 mil SP. The entire video was a veteran doing what CCP planned vets to do with it.
Yes they can convert them into PLEX and get richer... so what, you can do the same by just playing the game as an expert and being efficient at ISK gathering.
Yes, you can do what IronBank did and WASTE MASSIVE AMOUNTS of SP by maxxing out a character with SP. This isn't something that is cool or even remotely damaging to the game. It demonstrates that someone with enough time or money or both can blow it all on a useless exercise. There is nothing in the game he can fly that can't be killed in. His skills will not save him.
I don't admire what Ironbank did, it was a useless waste of resources and now people are holding it as an example of how the game is ruined. I'm sorry, I don't agree at all. There are controls on the SP trading/injecting process and you have to be willing to completely blow away massive resources to get past them. No sane person will do this for an actual playing toon unless they like wasting time/money.
I do admire what JonnyPew did and thank him greatly for his example of how the system works and how it can be used by vet players to continue to make their EVE experience fun and new. It gives me hope for keeping the game fresh. +10 to JonnyPew.
Instead of griping about it, just play the game your way, who cares what anyone else does. Go blow away IronBank if you ever run across him- THAT is bragging rights. I play for me and don't care how well trained your toon is. I'm working on my toon! |
pajedas
145
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Posted - 2016.02.16 17:27:26 -
[464] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:I play for me and don't care how well trained your toon is. I'm working on my toon! How can we measure the impact on the "community" if we only view ourselves?
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
329
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Posted - 2016.02.16 17:30:46 -
[465] - Quote
Scott Dracov wrote: This kill the patient to heal them SP injector fiasco simply makes SP mandatory to have at level 5 in whatever your flying and make no mistake Corps and FC's will now be expecting you to be at level 5 in any ship that is FOTM right now and not in three months from now because everyone they are fighting could be or is at level 5 so that's the way it is now.
Not sure I'd want to join them anyway, as having sp doesn't necessarily make you a decent pilot. Those that think it does, won't be worth joining. |
Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Phoebe Freeport Republic
1707
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Posted - 2016.02.16 17:32:41 -
[466] - Quote
The only thing I don't like about skill injectors is no cap. The limits don't really prevent something like this from happening. Is this bad, no not really but the reason for skill injectors was to allow people to customize and obtain something like from the Character Bazaar. No one could ever create this character and sell it on the Bazaar.
So it seems a little unbalanced imo. Huge cash influx for CCP thought so I doubt they care but I'd like to see a limit on the amount of skill points injected.
GÇ£Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do.GÇ¥ - Dale Carnegie
Industry guy, third-party developer, jack-of-all-trades - master of none
Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour!
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Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
629
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Posted - 2016.02.16 17:33:32 -
[467] - Quote
Avvy wrote:Characters from the bazaar already tainted the purity of the sp tree. The fact it was an out of game process ment that most people didn't even notice.
That alone makes the CB much better (or less bad) than SP trading. Now it's pushed into everybodys face, which in and of itself creates some kind of pressure to buy some SP already.
Also - you could never buy anything on the CB that was impossible to achieve without normal skill training. So, you could not buy a maxed out character. Now you can. True, it's much more expensive than the CB, but the simple fact that this character exists is proof that balancing something through the price does not work. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2610
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Posted - 2016.02.16 17:36:34 -
[468] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Avvy wrote:Characters from the bazaar already tainted the purity of the sp tree. The fact it was an out of game process ment that most people didn't even notice. That alone makes the CB much better (or less bad) than SP trading. Now it's pushed into everybodys face, which in and of itself creates some kind of pressure to buy some SP already. Also - you could never buy anything on the CB that was impossible to achieve without normal skill training. So, you could not buy a maxed out character. Now you can. True, it's much more expensive than the CB, but the simple fact that this character exists is proof that balancing something through the price does not work.
Except there are no real value in a maxxed out character except the e-fame of having one. Alts with the same capabilities are more powerful than a single character that can do it all.
Also, LOL at the supposed fact that this is more in our face than character trading was. I can't spend 20 minutes in the game without reading or hearing someone talk about buying/selling an alt for reason X, Y or Z. Everyone knew character trading was relatively common. |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
329
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Posted - 2016.02.16 17:39:36 -
[469] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote: Everyone knew character trading was relatively common.
Not everyone, I realised much later on, after I'd see the figures.
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pajedas
145
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Posted - 2016.02.16 17:42:53 -
[470] - Quote
FLASHBACK!!!
Only need to listen for about a minute :-)
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Nick Bete
The Scope Gallente Federation
395
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Posted - 2016.02.16 17:43:47 -
[471] - Quote
Meh, who cares? Just because someone may be willing to spend massive amounts of isk/RL cash to max a character doesn't mean a damned thing. Just because he/she has the SP doesn't mean he/she has the skill, experience and/or common sense needed to use them.
Can we now move on to the next big bittervet ***** session item please? |
Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra Gallente Federation
458
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Posted - 2016.02.16 17:44:14 -
[472] - Quote
Don't see why people are upset. In the end this changes nothing whatsoever. In fact it was expected that a handful of players would do what this guy did.
And lets be honest, when you people are flying out there, does the majority truly give a crap about what skills your opponents have maxed out?
So that means that a typical blob vs blob scenario goes something like this then: "Target that hurricane...no wait, he has maxed out all BC skills and medium projectiles and whatnot else, go for that other hurricane...he is a newbie scrub!"
A typical 1vs1 scenario "Nope, he's maxed out all his skills, I am so ******* out of here!"
Yeah right, as if.
In the end if everyone were to end up with all maxed out skills I honestly doubt that things would change all that much. Now it would be an entirely different story if titans suddenly dropped in price to 100 isk.... |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
329
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Posted - 2016.02.16 17:57:49 -
[473] - Quote
Gillia Winddancer wrote:
And lets be honest, when you people are flying out there, does the majority truly give a crap about what skills your opponents have maxed out?
I wouldn't know what anyone has got, as I don't use 3rd party programs. don't even use Evemon. |
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
32
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Posted - 2016.02.16 17:58:28 -
[474] - Quote
pajedas wrote: How can we measure the impact on the "community" if we only view ourselves?
I never said that we should only view ourselves. I said we should focus our play on ourselves. There is a world of difference in those two positions. I don't play for the community good, I play for my own entertainment. If I choose to wedge my play value against someone else's actions, perceptions or even their play value, then I deserve what I get when those conditions change.
So far, none of what CCP has done affects my play value, my ego, or anything else I do. I couldn't afford to play in the SP trading game if I tried, so it's like an asteroid impact on Pluto... sure it happens, but man it has NO impact on me.
As far as I can ferret out, it should only have good impact on the game, even with these 'maxxed out' toons. I can get wiped by a 1 week old player in a destroyer, so I have to watch everyone. If IronBank comes and wipes me out, where's his bragging rights? He's accomplished nothing and is EXPECTED to wipe me out. However, if I take him out, then WHOA everyone else is utterly shocked. So, I have nothing to lose, he has everything to lose. |
Scott Dracov
Isogen 5
173
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Posted - 2016.02.16 18:09:52 -
[475] - Quote
Gillia Winddancer wrote:....
So that means that a typical blob vs blob scenario goes something like this then: "Target that hurricane...no wait, he has maxed out all BC skills and medium projectiles and whatnot else, go for that other hurricane...he is a newbie scrub!"....
On a personal level after spending a long time maxing out armor comps to 5 and waiting that time then being in a trial by fire and watching your ship take the full brunt of the enemies fleet being within a hair of exploding into hull... and then being saved at the last second by guardian reps and saying to yourself thank god I spent that time on those skills or I would be in a pod and then in a new pod...
and now realizing that no one else has to wait like you did its all available right now if you pay for it.
and the price you paid in time investment. the choices you made with your meager skill points for what you wanted to do...
does not matter now as its all available... right now.
that cheapens the whole experience in ways beyond description to the point of futility.
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Josef Djugashvilis
3289
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Posted - 2016.02.16 18:15:39 -
[476] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:pajedas wrote: How can we measure the impact on the "community" if we only view ourselves?
I never said that we should only view ourselves. I said we should focus our play on ourselves. There is a world of difference in those two positions. I don't play for the community good, I play for my own entertainment. If I choose to wedge my play value against someone else's actions, perceptions or even their play value, then I deserve what I get when those conditions change. So far, none of what CCP has done affects my play value, my ego, or anything else I do. I couldn't afford to play in the SP trading game if I tried, so it's like an asteroid impact on Pluto... sure it happens, but man it has NO impact on me. As far as I can ferret out, it should only have good impact on the game, even with these 'maxxed out' toons. I can get wiped by a 1 week old player in a destroyer, so I have to watch everyone. If IronBank comes and wipes me out, where's his bragging rights? He's accomplished nothing and is EXPECTED to wipe me out. However, if I take him out, then WHOA everyone else is utterly shocked. So, I have nothing to lose, he has everything to lose.
Of course, that one week old character with a shed load of bought skills is actually an experienced pvp pilot who bought and paid for his new character and skill set with cash just for the fun of it.
How does one tell?
This is not a signature.
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Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra Gallente Federation
458
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Posted - 2016.02.16 18:15:57 -
[477] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:pajedas wrote: How can we measure the impact on the "community" if we only view ourselves?
As far as I can ferret out, it should only have good impact on the game, even with these 'maxxed out' toons. I can get wiped by a 1 week old player in a destroyer, so I have to watch everyone. If IronBank comes and wipes me out, where's his bragging rights? He's accomplished nothing and is EXPECTED to wipe me out. However, if I take him out, then WHOA everyone else is utterly shocked. So, I have nothing to lose, he has everything to lose.
Well, frankly this would only be true if IronBank were to utilize all of his skills that his character possesses in combat...besides that, odds are that IronBank has already had all his important combat skills maxed out for years already. It was a rather old char to begin with, right? Correct me if I am wrong here :p
Come to think of it, the salty tears whining becomes that much more amusing considering that an overwhelming majority of the more experienced players insist that having alts is the best way to play the game cause of...you know, multitasking which increases efficiency and all that stuff.
The only real reason for why people are whining is the fact that IronBank managed to produce a huge e-peen in notime and slap everyone in the face with it - hard.
By the way....who expects that even 5% of the EVE population will do what IronBank did? |
Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
329
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Posted - 2016.02.16 18:17:47 -
[478] - Quote
Scott Dracov wrote:Gillia Winddancer wrote:....
So that means that a typical blob vs blob scenario goes something like this then: "Target that hurricane...no wait, he has maxed out all BC skills and medium projectiles and whatnot else, go for that other hurricane...he is a newbie scrub!".... On a personal level after spending a long time maxing out armor comps to 5 and waiting that time then being in a trial by fire and watching your ship take the full brunt of the enemies fleet being within a hair of exploding into hull... and then being saved at the last second by guardian reps and saying to yourself thank god I spent that time on those skills or I would be in a pod and then in a new pod... and now realizing that no one else has to wait like you did its all available right now if you pay for it. and the price you paid in time investment. the choices you made with your meager skill points for what you wanted to do... does not matter now as its all available... right now. that cheapens the whole experience in ways beyond description to the point of futility.
I don't really see it that way, but then I've sent loads of sp to Doomheim over the years.
Even if I had all the skills trained it wouldn't matter, as I said somewhere else, it's a sandbox the important part is using those skills. |
Big Lynx
4854
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Posted - 2016.02.16 18:18:19 -
[479] - Quote
Scott Dracov wrote:Gillia Winddancer wrote:....
So that means that a typical blob vs blob scenario goes something like this then: "Target that hurricane...no wait, he has maxed out all BC skills and medium projectiles and whatnot else, go for that other hurricane...he is a newbie scrub!".... On a personal level after spending a long time maxing out armor comps to 5 and waiting that time then being in a trial by fire and watching your ship take the full brunt of the enemies fleet being within a hair of exploding into hull... and then being saved at the last second by guardian reps and saying to yourself thank god I spent that time on those skills or I would be in a pod and then in a new pod... and now realizing that no one else has to wait like you did its all available right now if you pay for it. and the price you paid in time investment. the choices you made with your meager skill points for what you wanted to do... does not matter now as its all available... right now. that cheapens the whole experience in ways beyond description to the point of futility. Tell that the new instant gratification generation. Its like describing a rainbow to a blind man |
Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra Gallente Federation
458
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Posted - 2016.02.16 18:23:30 -
[480] - Quote
Scott Dracov wrote:Gillia Winddancer wrote:....
So that means that a typical blob vs blob scenario goes something like this then: "Target that hurricane...no wait, he has maxed out all BC skills and medium projectiles and whatnot else, go for that other hurricane...he is a newbie scrub!".... On a personal level after spending a long time maxing out armor comps to 5 and waiting that time then being in a trial by fire and watching your ship take the full brunt of the enemies fleet being within a hair of exploding into hull... and then being saved at the last second by guardian reps and saying to yourself thank god I spent that time on those skills or I would be in a pod and then in a new pod... and now realizing that no one else has to wait like you did its all available right now if you pay for it. and the price you paid in time investment. the choices you made with your meager skill points for what you wanted to do... does not matter now as its all available... right now. that cheapens the whole experience in ways beyond description to the point of futility.
To be honest, I could care less what others do. I have no real intention of using skill injectors on such a grand scale or if at all. It wont affect my gameplay whatsoever. And I am not so petty as to think about what other suddenly can or cannot do where the means doesn't change the end result. |
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