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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7280
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Posted - 2016.02.17 18:18:18 -
[571] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Neuntausend wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:On the same token, imagine what a big deal it used to be to cross an ocean by boat. Then think about how you can cross it in hours by aircraft.
If you had to get across an ocean, what would you prefer? I'd probably opt to not cross an ocean, but if I really had to and could afford it, I'd pick the boat. Well - a ship, just because a "boat" implies that it's not actually capable of crossing an ocean. Through being able to cross an ocean in just a couple of hours people have come to expect you to. Everything needs to be fast, everyone needs to be mobile and available anywhere anytime. It's rather stressful. I'm not saying that jet planes and mobile phones don't have their merits, but with them comes a lot of bullshit I have to deal with now every day. If it was still socially acceptable (and possible) to not have a phone, travel by carriage or ship and send letters via horseback courier, I'd certainly prefer that. I don't need everything right now. Too bad you died of cholera.
I don't get around much since that arrow hit me in the leg.
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
7280
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Posted - 2016.02.17 18:31:15 -
[572] - Quote
Avvy wrote:Gadget Helmsdottir wrote:Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:Demica Diaz wrote:Even though I am quite neutral about skill injecting feature. This makes me just tiny bit sad. Feels like something from EVE has lost. Wierd feeling. On the same token, imagine what a big deal it used to be to cross an ocean by boat. Then think about how you can cross it in hours by aircraft. If you had to get across an ocean, what would you prefer? But imagine if you had a boat ready with the host of concerns about it for crossing an ocean, and somebody gives you a plant ticket. Would that not take off the pressure and leave your faculties up for other matters, like what you are going to do when you get to the other side? Now that somebody is maxed out, it does not matter when somebody is maxed out. It's irrelevant, and Eve Online didn't implode. (and the server didn't crash either) Consider it a good thing. Carrying the analogy forward... While you can choose to slowboat across an ocean, to be competitive, one must choose the quickest route. Your competition will be. In the not so far future, SP-injected characters will be the expectation. --Gadget With attributes and attribute implants removed and the training speed increase to at least compensate. That should help new players especially those that can't afford sp injectors. If there is an sp-injected character expectation then that is the players that are enforcing such a thing. CCP can give the tools to do things but if the players want to enforce restrictions then the players can't blame CCP. If you're excluded from a corp. because of sp then find another one, chances are you might not like it there anyway (at least if it was me).
I have a take it or leave it attitude about the SP injection. If asked about the ramification, my answer is "I don't know".
But reading your post made me realize that now mission/incursion/anom grinding is no longer for naught. It's not just the servers that have hamsters in wheels: the players too. This means a massive ISK sink to move existing SP around.
What are the two things that have been amassed over the years? SP and ISK. ISK existing in two forms: actual ISK and PLEX.
What's the one thing a rank noob does not have? SP. But the noob can get ISK and lots of it.
For the min/max sperger it's feasible to imagine them getting into a spiral of sorts. It's like drug addicts who work hard just so they can get more drugs, but need more drugs because they work so hard. So it's possible the sperging crowd will get too caught up in this, running missions until they get enough SP to run incursions, running incursions until they can get super twinkboats so they can get more ISK and more SP through transfer of PLEX.
The only bulwark is then the limitations on the available pool of SP. How much SP does the average bittervet who trained up for say Titans and then realized they were coffins want to give up? How many PVP turned industrialists have SP they don't use?
Only the Shadow knows (that's an old saying).
Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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Anyura
Dark-Rising
153
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Posted - 2016.02.17 19:50:18 -
[573] - Quote
Dr Caymus wrote:The new skill system: Dawn of a New Era or Epic Fail
Perhaps I owe CCP an apology for making a goal of leading the skillpoint group for the last 13 years, I must have offended them greatly for them to do what they have done to the system.
However, now a complete mockery of the system has been made with a 3-day-old character. Was that not seen coming?
This could have been done much more effectively with more controls: more tiers with decreasing marginal gains at higher SP levels, daily limits, or whatever.
Back up and restore, anyone?
As I far as I'm concerned, Dr C will always be king of the SP, because he *worked* for them.
Slight expansion on my original comment - I'm okay with pilots using extractors and injectors to shift their own SP around, to clear away rookie training mistakes or for slight shifts in direction. Devouring injectors like SP flavoured Pringles is not okay. |
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
35
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Posted - 2016.02.17 20:40:42 -
[574] - Quote
Thank you for that link, it was enlightening. It actually supports what I was saying.
Equivalency is established once it can be bought and sold with real money. It just is. That's also the assumption and tool that lets people claim "$30,000 of spaceships blown up in an on-line battle". You can't have it both ways, be fake and be real. Value is a market determination based on perceived benefit. Even 'fake' virtual stuff has legally been shown to have real value. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/6870901/ns/technology_and_science-games/t/virtual-worlds-wind-real-worlds-courts/#.VsTXZv0UXL8
Yes, I heard the 'amounts' he was claiming. He talked about recirculating them, so that could be where a lot of 'gift' PLEXes come from but those are confiscated from RMT or other actions against the game rules. I didn't know they did that but it makes sense, the State makes money off of criminals, no difference here.
If you paid attention, he also specifically said they reserved the right to take corrective actions against market pressures, either intentionally started by players or just as a need to correct pressures. What this means is that they can 'introduce' more PLEX onto the market to control too much upward price pressure or put in game sinks (he mentions fees and taxes, but there are more) to make the product more scarce to alleviate too much downward pressure. They want stability. Introducing PLEX, by definition would support the claim that all is not real money purchase based. Central Banks do this all the time, it's part of their function.
Again, I never said PLEX wasn't from real money, I said and meant that if even one PLEX was created out of thin air and introduced into the game, the claim that all of it is from real money fails, it is a true/false analysis. Has it happened before, I don't know, I could be completely wrong, but that was also my point.
My intent was to introduce uncertainty in speaking in absolutes when we have no proof that it has never been done in any fashion before for any reason before because the original post I was responding to was someone using invective from an absolute position that isn't as absolute as claimed.
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Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
35
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Posted - 2016.02.17 20:45:49 -
[575] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Where else did PLEX origin from beside purchases?
Read my post above. But the simple answer is, CCP introduces them either via the market, loot from NPC ships, or more creative mechanisms (Maybe Devs flying a ship with a PLEX in it looking to get shot up someplace, or as a prize for something, perhaps a lottery system, they always have giveaways).
The point is, only the 3 people mentioned in the video (maybe some others in CCP) know for certain if it is all from real money or not. We as players certainly don't. We can't even necessarily trust them to tell the truth here either as it might destabilize things if they told us when they were doing corrections to the PLEX market.
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Dalketh
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
127
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Posted - 2016.02.17 20:56:39 -
[576] - Quote
I realize this was done as a joke (and the owner's need for attention) but it does make me sad.
Before this buying of skillpoints - a pilot hitting the max would have been admirable and something very very special.
Instead it is now a sad joke.
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Avvy
Republic University Minmatar Republic
335
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Posted - 2016.02.17 21:43:07 -
[577] - Quote
Dalketh wrote:I realize this was done as a joke (and the owner's need for attention) but it does make me sad.
Before this buying of skillpoints - a pilot hitting the max would have been admirable and something very very special.
Instead it is now a sad joke.
A pilot should never have hit the max as new skills would have been added.
Problem is they don't want to be adding skills just to extend the skill tree.
The skills have a long training time and there are a lot of skills, that's normally a sign that they want players to be different as in what skills they have trained.
Those that made it their goal to train all skills should realise that, that was never the intended purpose of the skill tree.
Which is probably why CCP didn't add a hard point in respect to sp injectors use. Although I did initially think they should, but the more I've thought about it I realise they did the right thing by not adding one. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5387
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Posted - 2016.02.17 21:52:33 -
[578] - Quote
Dalketh wrote:I realize this was done as a joke (and the owner's need for attention) but it does make me sad.
Yes, some humans can do that to you. We are not perfect, sadly.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4722
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Posted - 2016.02.17 22:33:34 -
[579] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:I can assure you that they confiscate more than they give out. They've explained this in the past. I'd link some posts from various devs on the topic, but I just don't care about the issue enough. You are welcome to use their crappy search function (Now, that's a legitimate complaint) to find them yourself if you are so inclined. The long and short of it is that they are not creating anything that wasn't already in the game. Mr Epeen I appreciate your assurances and did as you asked and searched for some rules or comments by DEV's on confiscating PLEX. Yup, the search function is typical Forum Board poor, but perhaps due to that, wasn't finding any comments by DEV's on the topic, quite a few by players and claiming various things. Since PLEX is equivalent to real money in some fashion, CCP would only do this if the player did something against the games' rules that CCP could absolutely prove. That PLEX is forfeit, regardless of how it entered the game and doesn't bear on the initial assumption of all of it coming in through purchased sources. I'm not saying that you aren't right about them doing it from time to time, but I don't see the proof that your assurance is beyond questioning. CCP gives out PLEX almost daily and even fairly regular in high end loot if those rumors are real. So it's kind of one perspective against another, neither one being proof capable as to rate of injection/removal. None of this changes the fact that not all PLEX in game is source purchased. Nor does it merit the use of invective against another person.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3024863#post3024863 Not a Dev post, but he is referencing a market intervention by CCP DrEyjo which the latter talked about at Fanfest. Basically, DrEyjo used PLEX from premabanned accounts.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Mr Mieyli
Hedion University Amarr Empire
226
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Posted - 2016.02.17 22:57:55 -
[580] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Dalketh wrote:I realize this was done as a joke (and the owner's need for attention) but it does make me sad.
Yes, some humans can do that to you. We are not perfect, sadly. Quote:Equivalency is established once it can be bought and sold with real money. So it can describe how much things are worth in game, by taking amount of money you did pay for the item to CCP, and describing for how much it can sell on market in Jita, in ISK value. This is your "equivalency", but its the only use it can have outside game from terms CCP made, to protect the game and their legal status. So this is only a rough estimate. Not real money value. Actually, legally everything in game, bought from CCP with real money is worth exactly 0$ every time because of terms you accepted.
In fact I'm pretty sure everything that exists in the eve world is the sole property of CCP. You don't even own the plex you bought or the isk in your wallet.
A case for more AoE in EvE
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Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
35
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Posted - 2016.02.17 23:22:20 -
[581] - Quote
Yes but again, we can't verify that. My previous post was based on that video. I've also wondered if they have confiscated enough PLEX to support the buddy PLEX system, again, can't prove a bit of it one way or the other. We'd never know if they did create it or reprocess it. We could suspect, but never actually 'know'.
I am curious as to how the entire PLEX vs. Skill Trading things balances out. Will be interesting to see if the prices increase or decrease in a few months time. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9924
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Posted - 2016.02.17 23:46:01 -
[582] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:Yes but
Give it up, people. That has been and will continue to be the response no matter how much evidence you present.
I'm ready to call troll on this one. Subtle and perhaps even well done, but a troll nonetheless.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4722
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Posted - 2016.02.18 00:13:37 -
[583] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:Yes but again, we can't verify that. My previous post was based on that video. I've also wondered if they have confiscated enough PLEX to support the buddy PLEX system, again, can't prove a bit of it one way or the other. We'd never know if they did create it or reprocess it. We could suspect, but never actually 'know'. I am curious as to how the entire PLEX vs. Skill Trading things balances out. Will be interesting to see if the prices increase or decrease in a few months time.
Okay, yes fine. Dr. Eyjo could have some sort of pathological liar, but I doubt it. Each PLEX represents a liability on CCP's books until it is used. Why create, out of thin air, liabilities that could sit on one's balance sheet for an indeterminate period.
Further, if we are going to go this route you have to doubt, literally, everything. Was Dr. Caymus really the highest SP character in the game? You can't verify it. Chribba could be a liar too when it comes to that. CCP could be lying.
Could everyone be lying about everything...yeah sure. But I'd rather not give into complete nihilism just yet.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
2390
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Posted - 2016.02.18 06:22:26 -
[584] - Quote
Mr Mieyli wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Dalketh wrote:I realize this was done as a joke (and the owner's need for attention) but it does make me sad.
Yes, some humans can do that to you. We are not perfect, sadly. Quote:Equivalency is established once it can be bought and sold with real money. So it can describe how much things are worth in game, by taking amount of money you did pay for the item to CCP, and describing for how much it can sell on market in Jita, in ISK value. This is your "equivalency", but its the only use it can have outside game from terms CCP made, to protect the game and their legal status. So this is only a rough estimate. Not real money value. Actually, legally everything in game, bought from CCP with real money is worth exactly 0$ every time because of terms you accepted. In fact I'm pretty sure everything that exists in the eve world is the sole property of CCP. You don't even own the plex you bought or the isk in your wallet. It is the property of CCP however the player has a legal right to use it because a contract is established between CCP and the player whenever money is exchanged for anything in game and the default understanding is that CCP will provide that "thing" to the player on an ongoing basis as long as the player complies with CCP rules.
CCP Fozzie GǣWe can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-tonGǪ in null sec anomalies. Gǣ*
Kaalrus pwned..... :)
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2619
|
Posted - 2016.02.18 06:43:21 -
[585] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Mr Mieyli wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:Dalketh wrote:I realize this was done as a joke (and the owner's need for attention) but it does make me sad.
Yes, some humans can do that to you. We are not perfect, sadly. Quote:Equivalency is established once it can be bought and sold with real money. So it can describe how much things are worth in game, by taking amount of money you did pay for the item to CCP, and describing for how much it can sell on market in Jita, in ISK value. This is your "equivalency", but its the only use it can have outside game from terms CCP made, to protect the game and their legal status. So this is only a rough estimate. Not real money value. Actually, legally everything in game, bought from CCP with real money is worth exactly 0$ every time because of terms you accepted. In fact I'm pretty sure everything that exists in the eve world is the sole property of CCP. You don't even own the plex you bought or the isk in your wallet. It is the property of CCP however the player has a legal right to use it because a contract is established between CCP and the player whenever money is exchanged for anything in game and the default understanding is that CCP will provide that "thing" to the player on an ongoing basis as long as the player complies with CCP rules.
Except you have to remember you also "signed" a contract with them that they can seize anything they want for pretty much any reasons.
They won't seize it without a reason but if they have one, the claim of ownership of a PLEX will be moot. |
Dr Caymus
Applied Technologies Inc Agents of Fortune
172
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Posted - 2016.02.18 15:31:52 -
[586] - Quote
This dude is serious, he picked up a copy of Mobile Refinery Operation and plugged it in some time over the last day or two. Well done!
I wonder if he'd be interested in buying my extra copy of the Mobile Factory Operation skill book...
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4726
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Posted - 2016.02.18 15:46:20 -
[587] - Quote
Dr Caymus wrote:This dude is serious, he picked up a copy of Mobile Refinery Operation and plugged it in some time over the last day or two. Well done! I wonder if he'd be interested in buying my extra copy of the Mobile Factory Operation skill book...
Be sure to sell it to him for 1.7 trillion ISK.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Dr Caymus
Applied Technologies Inc Agents of Fortune
173
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Posted - 2016.02.18 16:00:40 -
[588] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Dr Caymus wrote:This dude is serious, he picked up a copy of Mobile Refinery Operation and plugged it in some time over the last day or two. Well done! I wonder if he'd be interested in buying my extra copy of the Mobile Factory Operation skill book... Be sure to sell it to him for 1.7 trillion ISK. ... oh, at least that... I would think this book would command a significant premium!
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9938
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Posted - 2016.02.18 18:56:05 -
[589] - Quote
Dr Caymus wrote:This dude is serious, he picked up a copy of Mobile Refinery Operation and plugged it in some time over the last day or two. Well done! I wonder if he'd be interested in buying my extra copy of the Mobile Factory Operation skill book... Dr Caymus, I sympathize with you. Being the top dog in amassed SP was your thing and that's been taken away from you.
It sucks, to be sure.
But let's look at the big picture. You two are are an insignificant portion of the players base. You two are outliers. You two are unimportant in your little battle of the SP to the majority of people playing.
Let it go.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Don Pera Saissore
74
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Posted - 2016.02.18 19:47:46 -
[590] - Quote
That insignificant part of the player base was respected by every player for their love and dedication to this game
and now...
now they just look like a bunch of losers, spending all that time and money just so they can be betrayed by the makers.
let it go sounds more like go **** yourself |
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5436
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Posted - 2016.02.18 19:58:28 -
[591] - Quote
Quote:That insignificant part of the player base was respected by every player for their love and dedication to this game
I have heard about Caymus just now, when someone maxed his character, and I play this game for years. Its so ironic, dont you think?
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
9939
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Posted - 2016.02.18 20:28:02 -
[592] - Quote
Don Pera Saissore wrote:That insignificant part of the player base was respected by every player for their love and dedication to this game
Seriously, you can't make this stuff up folks!
Oh wait...you just did.
Worshiping someone because they happened to be subbed longer than anyone else is not only lame, but to say that more than a handful of people knew about it or cared that much is an outright lie.
I think you are confusing people that have made no contribution of note to this game with people like Chribba, who is an actual EVE hero.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2621
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Posted - 2016.02.18 22:57:05 -
[593] - Quote
Don Pera Saissore wrote:That insignificant part of the player base was respected by every player for their love and dedication to this game
and now...
now they just look like a bunch of losers, spending all that time and money just so they can be betrayed by the makers.
let it go sounds more like go **** yourself
Don Pera Saissore wrote: was respected by every player for their love and dedication to this game
LOLNOPE |
Memphis Baas
1145
|
Posted - 2016.02.18 23:13:04 -
[594] - Quote
So the average rank of the 415 different skills in EVE is 4.6. |
Don Pera Saissore
75
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Posted - 2016.02.19 02:30:19 -
[595] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:I have heard about Caymus just now, when someone maxed his character, and I play this game for years. Its so ironic, dont you think?
no thats actually sad
Mr Epeen wrote:I think you are confusing people that have made no contribution of note to this game with people like Chribba, who is an actual EVE hero.
being a member of the community for 13 years counts for something in my book. sticking with it through tough times is a contribution
worship? no, just respect
Frostys Virpio wrote:LOLNOPE
lol goon |
Mistah Ewedynao
Ice Axe Psycho Killers
586
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Posted - 2016.02.19 05:14:09 -
[596] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:
LOLNOPE
Why are we stuck with you as the latest, and almost the worst I might add, Goon CCP Cheerleader?
Did you fall asleep when it was your turn to bump the freighter?
Farning those goldmines in napsec got boring?
This one is a perfect example of what you have gotten following the Goons advice CCP.
Eve dumbed down.
Nerf Goons
Nuke em from orbit....it's the only way to be sure.
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4727
|
Posted - 2016.02.19 05:47:11 -
[597] - Quote
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:
LOLNOPE
Why are we stuck with you as the latest, and almost the worst I might add, Goon CCP Cheerleader? Did you fall asleep when it was your turn to bump the freighter? Farning those goldmines in napsec got boring? This one is a perfect example of what you have gotten following the Goons advice CCP. Eve dumbed down.
The Butthurt is strong in this one.
Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence
So Local Chat vanished, now what?
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5439
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Posted - 2016.02.19 09:06:45 -
[598] - Quote
Don Pera Saissore wrote:Nana Skalski wrote:I have heard about Caymus just now, when someone maxed his character, and I play this game for years. Its so ironic, dont you think? no thats actually sad
no thats just life
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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stg slate
We're Kind of a Big Deal
72
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Posted - 2016.02.19 15:03:24 -
[599] - Quote
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:
LOLNOPE
Why are we stuck with you as the latest, and almost the worst I might add, Goon CCP Cheerleader?
Wait are Goons now CCP Cheerleaders? Is the top alliance automatically assumed to be dev pets? |
Adeline Rais
Rais Industries and Research Incorporated
17
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Posted - 2016.02.19 15:08:59 -
[600] - Quote
Mistah Ewedynao wrote:
Grrrrr.
Fixed |
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