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Grooz 2000
Imperial's Capsulers
1
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Posted - 2016.02.26 21:46:04 -
[31] - Quote
Sinjin Mokk wrote:One of the great truisms of our kind is that you don't undock what you can't afford to lose. Amarr undocked something they couldn't afford to lose.
Granted, given the rapid strike capabilities of the Drifters, once they appeared on-grid, there wasn't anything anyone could have done. The failure of Amarr was hubris. We all knew something was going to happen. We knew the Drifters were a significant threat and that they possessed a worrisome level of power. And still Amarr publicly announced when and where the Empress would be. Of course, no one expected that anyone would try something like ganking a Head of State in HiSec. But Amarr should never have taken the chance in the first place.
When it comes to the security of the state and the Empress. Hubris should be on the second plan. And everything must be done for safety. Even if you're not familiar with the enemy, you must consider any options that may occur. All the fault lies with the command who were responsible for security. All these excuses is a lie, the responsibility lies with the Empress who allowed without proper protection to be in the system. When it was clear that she might be in danger.
Oh ... I nearly forgot. Alizebeth Amalath should pay attention to patterns of a new has its black sheep by the name Apostle, you will find there the familiar features.
Quote:We will remember how she died, but we will not remembered how she lived. Eh .. Empire seems to have lost the best designers, it is a pity very sorry. |
Gosakumori Noh
Hematology Advancement Program Of Questionable Repute
749
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Posted - 2016.02.26 21:58:49 -
[32] - Quote
Grooz 2000 wrote:The responsibility lies with the Empress.
That is all which needs to be said. Either the Empress decided that she did not want to go on living; or, the Empress decided that the superstitious dipshittery inherent in Amarr's belief that the ruling family should not maintain medical clones was to be respected (this time, ahem; for reasons unknown).
The Empress herself does not appear to have been a superstitious dipshit, and so it is easy to believe that she viewed developments as an opportunity to no longer be responsible for an empire of superstitious dipshits. |
Grooz 2000
Imperial's Capsulers
1
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Posted - 2016.02.26 22:43:12 -
[33] - Quote
Gosakumori Noh wrote:Grooz 2000 wrote:The responsibility lies with the Empress. That is all which needs to be said. Either the Empress decided that she did not want to go on living; or, the Empress decided that the superstitious dipshittery inherent in Amarr's belief that the ruling family should not maintain medical clones was to be respected (this time, ahem; for reasons unknown). The Empress herself does not appear to have been a superstitious dipshit, and so it is easy to believe that she viewed developments as an opportunity to no longer be responsible for an empire of superstitious dipshits.
That is suicide? |
Gosakumori Noh
Hematology Advancement Program Of Questionable Repute
749
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Posted - 2016.02.26 22:51:36 -
[34] - Quote
Grooz 2000 wrote:That is suicide?
Yes. Either the Empress submitted to superstitious nonsense and refused a medical clone; or, she couldn't take the superstitious nonsense any longer and decided it to end it. In the later case, I don't blame her. In the former case, good riddance, New Eden does not need that kind of "leadership."
She may not have chosen the exact moment or nature of death, but she chose to die. The responsibility is, as you said, with her. |
Grooz 2000
Imperial's Capsulers
1
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Posted - 2016.02.26 23:07:54 -
[35] - Quote
In charge Grand Admiral who is alive. He commanded the fleet. Suicide without the proper approach is sin. Only the heirs and their faithful servants losers succession have the right to retual suicide. Either the the servant who faithfully served the rulers but the ruler died. (leave this world at his own request with his master) Or I'm wrong ? |
Gosakumori Noh
Hematology Advancement Program Of Questionable Repute
749
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 23:17:08 -
[36] - Quote
The Empress chose to get in a titan (apparently) without a medical clone. Her (apparent) death is her responsibility, and hers alone. The fact that she herself once showed up with a superweapon and obliterated an enemy fleet makes the "we couldn't have anticipated such a thing" excuse absurd.
Hmmm... perhaps the Drifters are punishing Amarr for benefiting from one of their weapons without permission.
Come back, Eldar Fleet! Come back! |
Grooz 2000
Imperial's Capsulers
1
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Posted - 2016.02.26 23:23:53 -
[37] - Quote
Gosakumori Noh wrote:The Empress chose to get in a titan (apparently) without a medical clone. Her (apparent) death is her responsibility, and hers alone. The fact that she herself once showed up with a superweapon and obliterated an enemy fleet makes the "we couldn't have anticipated such a thing" excuse absurd.
Hmmm... perhaps the Drifters are punishing Amarr for benefiting from one of their weapons without permission.
Come back, Eldar Fleet! Come back!
Do you believe in her return? |
Indira Harashani
Harashani Family
95
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Posted - 2016.02.27 01:33:13 -
[38] - Quote
Lunarisse Aspenstar wrote:Alizebeth Amalath wrote:Like many other Faithful capsuleers, I was in Safizon the day TES Auctoritas was supposed to be handed over to Her Majesty, Empress Jamyl I. Like all the others who were there, I watched in horror at Her MajestyGÇÖs martyrdom.
Since that day, members of the Order of Jamyl have kept a vigil over the wreck of EF Seraph, an ever present, but ever empty, mausoleum. We continue to mourn her death and remember her, but in remembering her, we know that her life was not just the few moments at Safizon. Hers was a life of righteousness and glory, of triumph and strength. Empress Jamyl I returned pride to the Imperial Military and righted the wrongs of her father. Her mark on the Navy will last, even though she is gone.
Therefore, I propose that TES Auctoritas be renamed TES Empress Jamyl I. I can think of few better ways for the Navy to remember her. I second this proposal. Although no doubt others will chime as to various fitting tributes (why do x if you can do y), there is no reason not to proceed with a simple and clear one while others are also pursued for her Holy Memory. There is, in fact, a very good reason not to proceed with any name but the TES Auctoritas, and it is not some silly nonsense superstition about renaming a ship bringing about bad luck.
It is that the vessel was named by Her Majesty herself shortly before her death. You wish to second-guess her decisions to use that name? To undo one of her last acts as Empress?
And you call yourselves her supporters? Support her by allowing her words and decisions to stand. Not by suggesting you know better in some vain attempt to glorify her by renaming a ship that she herself named as her last official act as Empress.
Jamyl Sarum I wrote: Faithful of Amarr, it pleases us to see so many loyal capsuleers present here today.
We are gathered here in token of our holy mission to reclaim creation and bring the glory of God to all. To reaffirm this mission, it is fitting we mark the launch of our latest Imperial Flagship, the Auctoritas.
You will bear witness to the might and peerless technology of Holy Amarr as we...
Her Majesty's own last words. If you consider yourself her supporter, her follower, then respect those words and leave the Auctoritas' name stand. You disrespect her name, her memory, and her legacy, by doing otherwise.
There will be many other vessels built in the days to come. Name them.
Lady Indira Harashani
Holder of the Kheryskova Archipelago, Kihtaled IV
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Gosakumori Noh
Hematology Advancement Program Of Questionable Repute
749
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Posted - 2016.02.27 01:42:39 -
[39] - Quote
Grooz 2000 wrote:Do you believe in her return?
I am skeptical an individual like the Empress would have actually gone without a medical clone somewhere. I do half expect her return, albeit not as an "Amarrian." I do not have high expectations for her potential successors.
Wait! I've got a great idea for a system of governance!
Some pod tarts will flit around throwing pew pew at one another, and that will decide the head of state! It would be laughably imbecilic in a bronze age society, let alone, well.... |
Grooz 2000
Imperial's Capsulers
1
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Posted - 2016.02.27 11:27:16 -
[40] - Quote
Quote:
There is, in fact, a very good reason not to proceed with any name but the TES Auctoritas, and it is not some silly nonsense superstition about renaming a ship bringing about bad luck.
It is that the vessel was named by Her Majesty herself shortly before her death. You wish to second-guess her decisions to use that name? To undo one of her last acts as Empress?
And you call yourselves her supporters? Support her by allowing her words and decisions to stand. Not by suggesting you know better in some vain attempt to glorify her by renaming a ship that she herself named as her last official act as Empress.
I agree with you completely. Correctly be asked to not to rename the ship, but to create something new and unusual, as the the memory of her. Construct a new cathedral in the memory of her. Beautiful huge cathedral, as the once great architects have built the capital of the Empire. What now ? Draw a drawing of in the ship, in the ship which is not as the does not fit in the Gold fleet design.
Faugh heresy this is your Apostal.
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Grooz 2000
Imperial's Capsulers
1
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Posted - 2016.02.27 11:41:43 -
[41] - Quote
Gosakumori Noh wrote:Grooz 2000 wrote:Do you believe in her return? I am skeptical an individual like the Empress would have actually gone without a medical clone somewhere. I do half expect her return, albeit not as an "Amarrian." I do not have high expectations for her potential successors. Wait! I've got a great idea for a system of governance! Some pod tarts will flit around throwing pew pew at one another, and that will decide the head of state! It would be laughably imbecilic in a bronze age society, let alone, well....
I do not believe it, why is it us. It will be soon be the new Emperor. He will be kind and good, and most importantly do not capsuleer. Died one Emperor, came to replace the other. The Empress She died does not matter the other Emperor will come. Is best not to paying attention to all this. Anyway unable to influence the course of of history |
Mizhara Del'thul
T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan
636
|
Posted - 2016.02.27 13:40:15 -
[42] - Quote
Certain intel agents managed to track down her new medical clone after the assassination. She's a capsuleer after all, and wouldn't be so unimaginably stupid that she wouldn't have a clone ready and waiting. That said, I doubt we'll ever see her again in any official capacity. Whatever life she chooses to lead is probably going to be in the shadows, evading the boneheaded and anachronistic superstitions about 'godflesh' and such nonsense.
At least those intel reports confirm that these rulers don't take their own religious dogma to heart, other than as a tool to use in their political machinations. |
Grooz 2000
Imperial's Capsulers
1
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Posted - 2016.02.27 16:33:06 -
[43] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:Certain intel agents managed to track down her new medical clone after the assassination. She's a capsuleer after all, and wouldn't be so unimaginably stupid that she wouldn't have a clone ready and waiting. That said, I doubt we'll ever see her again in any official capacity. Whatever life she chooses to lead is probably going to be in the shadows, evading the boneheaded and anachronistic superstitions about 'godflesh' and such nonsense.
At least those intel reports confirm that these rulers don't take their own religious dogma to heart, other than as a tool to use in their political machinations.
Again guesses. If she would have been alive, she would help the how to win drifters. Since she knows more than we. If are not indifferent life of his people. And do not play these stupid riddles |
Gosakumori Noh
Hematology Advancement Program Of Questionable Repute
754
|
Posted - 2016.02.27 19:17:08 -
[44] - Quote
Grooz 2000 wrote:Again guesses.
Fact: this Empress was a capsuleer.
Fact: capsuleers have access to medical clones.
Fact: this Empress could afford a medical clone.
Fact: when the pod is destroyed, consciousness transfers to the medical clone.
Fact: this Empress has already made use of a medical clone at least once in the past.
Fact: this Empress possessed extraordinary knowledge of Sleeper civilization because she took a fleet through a wormhole and returned with the technology to create mechanized shock troops.
Fact: the technology used to create mechanized shock troops is more advanced than capsuleer pod technology because it dispenses with the need to have a pod at all.
Fact: this Empress didn't just "have access" to the technology used to dispense with the need to have a pod at all, she was the one who developed it for our Cluster.
Fact: this Empress didn't just "know of" the existence of extraordinarily powerful superweapons, this Empress used one personally.
Fact: the Drifter attack on this Empress was not the first documented use of the Drifter superweapons.
Fact: this Empress therefore knew that Drifter ships possess superweapons.
Fact: this Empress further knew that Drifters are capable of spawning wormholes in any security level of space.
Conclusion based on above facts: this Empress possessed both the means to protect herself against death and the knowledge that death could come at any time.
Because the facts outlined above overwhelmingly support the contention that she could have avoided death as easily as even the least competent new born mechanized shock trooper, the only people "guessing" are those who insist that she is actually dead. Yes, yes, the Amarrian propaganda machine says "she is dead." Oh! An eye rolled out of my head! If only I were as young as Pieter! Come back here! Come back!
Cylindrical Kameira! An eye has gone missing!
Wait... it occurs to me that the Sisters of EVE also possess extraordinary knowledge of ancient technology and, if I am not mistaken, were recently discovered to have been (or are still) operating a remarkable fleet in J-space - a domain in which it further occurs to me (again) that the Empress possessed unusual competence. Yes, this part here is "a guess."
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Grooz 2000
Imperial's Capsulers
1
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Posted - 2016.02.27 22:23:13 -
[45] - Quote
Gosakumori Noh wrote:[quote=Grooz 2000]Again guesses.
Fact: when the pod is destroyed, consciousness transfers to the medical clone.
Where is the scholar who died of a drifters ?
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Gosakumori Noh
Hematology Advancement Program Of Questionable Repute
756
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Posted - 2016.02.28 00:28:28 -
[46] - Quote
Grooz 2000 wrote:In vain hope she does not come back, because it would look silly.
I agree there would be an element of "not this trick again" should she return. |
Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
1036
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Posted - 2016.02.28 02:05:28 -
[47] - Quote
Grooz 2000 wrote:Where is the scholar who died of a drifters ? Quote:Wait... it occurs to me that the Sisters of EVE also possess extraordinary knowledge of ancient technology and, if I am not mistaken, were recently discovered to have been (or are still) operating a remarkable fleet in J-space - a domain in which it further occurs to me (again) that the Empress possessed unusual competence. Yes, this part here is "a guess." Do not even want to look at the "Bitches" of the SOE, under the guise of of charity, engaged conflicting activities. Capsuleers and the public accept this so easily. In vain hope she does not come back, because it would look silly. In this world and Amarrians, she is no longer needed.
You don't need a scholar who died to a Drifter to know what they are capable of. There are plenty of capsuleers who have lost ships and, yes, even podded by Drifters to know just how dangerous they are.
And it seems that you had been living under the rock. When we got to Thera, guess who is already there.
The SOE.
And just recently we also found out that they have a war fleet sitting in Anoikis preparing for some op in Anoikis. Details are not forthcoming.
There are no guesses here, it's just you being obtuse.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Indira Harashani
Harashani Family
97
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Posted - 2016.02.28 02:53:16 -
[48] - Quote
'Obtuse' is certainly one word for it. Though I have sometimes wondered if it is merely a fault in his translation software going from one dialect to another.
Lady Indira Harashani
Holder of the Kheryskova Archipelago, Kihtaled IV
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Grooz 2000
Imperial's Capsulers
1
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Posted - 2016.02.28 08:16:31 -
[49] - Quote
Hmm ... you're right, 'Obtuse' Renaming the ships, this is all what you are capable. Yours facts are not worth anything. She did not come back. You just have to watch the events. |
Utari Onzo
Pentag Blade Curatores Veritatis Alliance
965
|
Posted - 2016.02.28 08:41:40 -
[50] - Quote
What more do you people ******* want? She's gone and if this crap about her having cloned were even true it's been pointed out she'd not likely be able to return, so why would she? It's been months, and here we are still with people rubbing that tired old line in while we're trying to move on.
All the Heirs are capsuleers, will we point fingers at them and say the Shathol'Syn is just a big scam too?
"Face the enemy as a solid wall
For faith is your armor
And through it, the enemy will find no breach
Wrap your arms around the enemy
For faith is your fire
And with it, burn away his evil"
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Skyweir Kinnison
Coldhammer Harvest LLC
197
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Posted - 2016.02.28 09:32:00 -
[51] - Quote
Utari Onzo wrote: All the Heirs are capsuleers, will we point fingers at them and say the Shathol'Syn is just a big scam too?
Onlookers would note that Shathol'Syn has been a scam since Khanid opted out the first time and was later accepted back for a second chance. Jamyl came up with another variation on the 'purely optional' approach.
Now, I'm quite comfortable with political expediency for the sake of efficiency, but let's not pretend the wasteful ritual has any modern moral standing.
Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.
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Utari Onzo
Pentag Blade Curatores Veritatis Alliance
965
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Posted - 2016.02.28 09:44:42 -
[52] - Quote
Skyweir Kinnison wrote:Utari Onzo wrote: All the Heirs are capsuleers, will we point fingers at them and say the Shathol'Syn is just a big scam too?
Onlookers would note that Shathol'Syn has been a scam since Khanid opted out the first time and was later accepted back for a second chance. Jamyl came up with another variation on the 'purely optional' approach. Now, I'm quite comfortable with political expediency for the sake of efficiency, but let's not pretend the wasteful ritual has any modern moral standing.
Modern moral standing. Right. Because the Federation's morals are Universal and should apply to every culture.
"Face the enemy as a solid wall
For faith is your armor
And through it, the enemy will find no breach
Wrap your arms around the enemy
For faith is your fire
And with it, burn away his evil"
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Skyweir Kinnison
Coldhammer Harvest LLC
197
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Posted - 2016.02.28 11:12:39 -
[53] - Quote
Utari Onzo wrote: Modern moral standing. Right. Because the Federation's morals are Universal and should apply to every culture.
Which is the correct answer.
Nonetheless, even by the rules of the Amarr, it's hard to deny that the Shathol'Syn is not completely devalued. It's perfectly fine to recognise this, and move on from a system that wastes so much talent.
Equally, if you want to go on pretending, it's all to the benefit of other Empires for you to lose your brightest and best. Theocracies depend on delusion and magic tricks after all, so there may be some overall political benefit within the Empire itself.
Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.
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Utari Onzo
Pentag Blade Curatores Veritatis Alliance
965
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Posted - 2016.02.28 12:07:17 -
[54] - Quote
And what about executing people by means of biological immolation? Getting a crowd so ramped up, that their voices literally activate a chemically induced execution live for everyone to view on the GalNet? How very moral and upright, a great means of enforcing liberty and reforming otherwise talented criminals.
But please, you can go along pretending somehow the Federation knows best. The Empire's methods of Succession have lasted it well for a long time, if it was so harmful it would have stopped being practiced long ago. The Scriptures and the Imperial Laws aren't static and can change and evolve as required.
"Face the enemy as a solid wall
For faith is your armor
And through it, the enemy will find no breach
Wrap your arms around the enemy
For faith is your fire
And with it, burn away his evil"
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Mizhara Del'thul
T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan
637
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Posted - 2016.02.28 12:18:20 -
[55] - Quote
I'll give the Imperials this; they're marginally less dishonest in the way they do things than the Federation. At least they don't actually expect the rest of New Eden to actually believe the party line they have on offer. I've said it before and I'll say it again, should the Empire end slavery and the reclaiming, it'd go from the most dangerous nation in New Eden to one of the few that could stand against the Federation's far more insidious imperialist threat.
I sometimes wonder what would happen if the Federation's cultural and political expansionism found itself too ineffective? I suspect we'd see a rather interesting but dangerous shift to military subjugation and expansionism instead. |
Valerie Valate
Church of The Crimson Saviour Sani-Sabik
1325
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Posted - 2016.02.28 12:25:34 -
[56] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:II sometimes wonder what would happen if the Federation's cultural and political expansionism found itself too ineffective? I suspect we'd see a rather interesting but dangerous shift to military subjugation and expansionism instead.
Quiet with that talk, you'll summon those people who go on and on about "The War of Gallente Aggression", when referring to the first or second Caldari-Gallente wars.
Doctor V. Valate, Professor of Archaeology at Kaztropolis Imperial University.
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Skyweir Kinnison
Coldhammer Harvest LLC
197
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Posted - 2016.02.28 12:28:25 -
[57] - Quote
My point is that it has stopped being practiced. Leaders have opted out and been welcomed back.
I understand that as a convert, you have to be seen to be more orthodox than the orthodox, but you're also a thinking man. The point you make about the Scriptures evolving is pertinent for so many policies in the Empire. It's people like you who can embrace the idea of change that will be the future of the Empire - there no need for you to angrily pontificate on behalf of a transparently broken idea.
If the Empress has a legacy worthy of ship naming, surely it's built on wilfully ignoring the constraints of tradition and actually saving her people by so doing.
Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.
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Utari Onzo
Pentag Blade Curatores Veritatis Alliance
965
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Posted - 2016.02.28 12:35:00 -
[58] - Quote
If change is required, I'll not have some pompous well-to-do aristocratic Libertarian telling me what it needs to be. Change will come from within the Empire, as it always has, as and when it is deemed necessary. Aye, the Empire could do with shedding some inefficiencies, but we don't need to swallow the Federation's particular brand of medicine.
"Face the enemy as a solid wall
For faith is your armor
And through it, the enemy will find no breach
Wrap your arms around the enemy
For faith is your fire
And with it, burn away his evil"
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Skyweir Kinnison
Coldhammer Harvest LLC
198
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Posted - 2016.02.28 12:43:24 -
[59] - Quote
I wasn't telling you, I was challenging you to think. I can't recall making even the suggestion that you all start voting (as I have discussed in the past) but noting that the ritual killing of useful people, since it's already being ignored, might be usefully discarded. Even in the Empire, debate is not the same as dictating.
Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.
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Skyweir Kinnison
Coldhammer Harvest LLC
198
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Posted - 2016.02.28 12:50:43 -
[60] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:I'll give the Imperials this; they're marginally less dishonest in the way they do things than the Federation. At least they don't actually expect the rest of New Eden to actually believe the party line they have on offer. I've said it before and I'll say it again, should the Empire end slavery and the reclaiming, it'd go from the most dangerous nation in New Eden to one of the few that could stand against the Federation's far more insidious imperialist threat.
I sometimes wonder what would happen if the Federation's cultural and political expansionism found itself too ineffective? I suspect we'd see a rather interesting but dangerous shift to military subjugation and expansionism instead.
What an odd post. A better example of the "If my Auntie had balls, she'd be..." argument would be hard to find.
In essence, if the Amarr Empire gave up everything that defines it, it would be like the Federation.
If the Federation gave up everything that defines it, it would be like the Amarr Empire.
I suspect that even you are not holding your breath for this scenario.
Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.
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