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Mizhara Del'thul
T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan
638
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Posted - 2016.02.28 13:06:22 -
[61] - Quote
Oh there's infinitely more to the Empire than slavery and reclaiming, Kinnison. These two things are merely the most obvious ones when seen from the outside. I may be one of the most staunch enemies of the Empire, but it'd be disingenuous to disregard the immense complexity and worth of the Empire's culture, history and society. The Empire is fully capable of ridding itself of both slavery and the reclaiming while remaining the Amarr Empire in all the way that matter. I'd even go so far as to say it has the potential for being the greatest and most shining force for good in New Eden, should these things become mere history as they should.
Of course, until they do, this potential is massively overshadowed by the suffering they cause and the threat they pose.
The Federation certainly isn't defined only by its cultural and political expansionism. It is merely the aspect that is most relevant to those it poses a threat to. Should this aspect vanish, the Federation wouldn't become anything but the Federation, using a different means to achieve its goals.
That said, no, I'm not holding my breath for either scenario. |
Sinjin Mokk
Angelis Exploration
749
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Posted - 2016.02.28 13:15:39 -
[62] - Quote
Skyweir Kinnison wrote: Onlookers would note that Shathol'Syn has been a scam since Khanid opted out the first time and was later accepted back for a second chance. Jamyl came up with another variation on the 'purely optional' approach.
King Khanid is well over 300 years old and fairly spry for a man of his advanced years. It's been long suspected in the Kingdom that he's been using cloning tech to maintain his vigor. Most Khanid just don't care.
On Utopia Station, there's this little all-night Steak and Pancake place that I'm fond of. One of the staff there looks exactly like Jamyl Sarum. She claims she had surgery done a while back because the customers from her previous profession liked the idea of...spending time with the "Empress of Amarr." It could very well be the actual Jamyl. Or her claims could be true. Again, no one cares.
At this point in history, I don't think it matters if someone is a clone, as long as they're doing the work God set for them to do. Maybe that means leading a nation. Maybe that means serving food. Maybe that means going through traditional ritual suicide and then coming back to complete one's work. God is the judge, not us.
"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger
All of his fury and rage.
He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels"
- The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1
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Gosakumori Noh
Hematology Advancement Program Of Questionable Repute
756
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Posted - 2016.02.28 21:10:27 -
[63] - Quote
Utari Onzo wrote:She's gone and if this crap about her having cloned were even true it's been pointed out she'd not likely be able to return, so why would she? It's been months.
It's been months! *MONTHS*! Do you people have any idea how long a WHOLE MONTH IS!? Goodness gracious, it's like ONE ENTIRE PLEX WORTH OF TIME!
I am glad to see that the Empire continues to be well-served by her sharpest tacks.
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Utari Onzo
Pentag Blade Curatores Veritatis Alliance
968
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Posted - 2016.02.28 21:15:03 -
[64] - Quote
And I'm so glad to see that the rumours of your cancerous blight on posting (and probably humanity) were true. As if Nauplius wasn't bad enough.
"Face the enemy as a solid wall
For faith is your armor
And through it, the enemy will find no breach
Wrap your arms around the enemy
For faith is your fire
And with it, burn away his evil"
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Gosakumori Noh
Hematology Advancement Program Of Questionable Repute
756
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Posted - 2016.02.28 21:19:50 -
[65] - Quote
Utari Onzo wrote:...rumours of your cancerous blight...
Rumors? In addition to being one of the brightest minds at the disposal of whomsoever's champion might prevail in Holy Pew Pew, you are also clearly one of the most observant.
Amore Vitoc... or something! |
Sinjin Mokk
Angelis Exploration
752
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Posted - 2016.02.28 22:36:35 -
[66] - Quote
Utari Onzo wrote:And I'm so glad to see that the rumours of your cancerous blight on posting (and probably humanity) were true. As if Nauplius wasn't bad enough.
You act as if the opinions of a Bloodraider matter to this conversation.
"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger
All of his fury and rage.
He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels"
- The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1
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Indira Harashani
Harashani Family
97
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Posted - 2016.02.28 22:49:11 -
[67] - Quote
Inject some logic and a sound argument into a discussion, and rather than respond to that, everyone waddles off to engage the ridiculous off-topic nonsense instead.
IGS in a nutshell, I suppose.
Lady Indira Harashani
Holder of the Kheryskova Archipelago, Kihtaled IV
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Gosakumori Noh
Hematology Advancement Program Of Questionable Repute
756
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Posted - 2016.02.28 23:34:49 -
[68] - Quote
Sinjin Mokk wrote:You act as if the opinions of a Bloodraider matter to this conversation.
What do you suppose the "conversation" is about, Mokk? Are you clever enough to figure it out on your own? |
Sinjin Mokk
Angelis Exploration
752
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Posted - 2016.02.29 01:30:17 -
[69] - Quote
Gosakumori Noh wrote:Sinjin Mokk wrote:You act as if the opinions of a Bloodraider matter to this conversation. What do you suppose the "conversation" is about, Mokk? Are you clever enough to figure it out on your own?
I believe:
Alizebeth Amalath wrote:Like many other Faithful capsuleers, I was in Safizon the day TES Auctoritas was supposed to be handed over to Her Majesty, Empress Jamyl I. Like all the others who were there, I watched in horror at Her MajestyGÇÖs martyrdom.
Since that day, members of the Order of Jamyl have kept a vigil over the wreck of EF Seraph, an ever present, but ever empty, mausoleum. We continue to mourn her death and remember her, but in remembering her, we know that her life was not just the few moments at Safizon. Hers was a life of righteousness and glory, of triumph and strength. Empress Jamyl I returned pride to the Imperial Military and righted the wrongs of her father. Her mark on the Navy will last, even though she is gone.
Therefore, I propose that TES Auctoritas be renamed TES Empress Jamyl I. I can think of few better ways for the Navy to remember her.
So in other words:
Sinjin Mokk wrote:You act as if the opinions of a Bloodraider matter to this conversation.
"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger
All of his fury and rage.
He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels"
- The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1
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Gosakumori Noh
Hematology Advancement Program Of Questionable Repute
756
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Posted - 2016.02.29 04:00:23 -
[70] - Quote
In fact, if not in your little head, the conversation is about what those conversing discuss. If this is inconvenient to your little world view, then perhaps you should hold conversations in secure little playpens. |
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Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
1925
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Posted - 2016.02.29 04:17:25 -
[71] - Quote
Gosakumori Noh wrote:In fact, if not in your little head, the conversation is about what those conversing discuss. If this is inconvenient to your little world view, then perhaps you should hold conversations in secure little playpens.
Technically true.
It's a little rude to derail people's discussions when you can start your own, however. |
Gosakumori Noh
Hematology Advancement Program Of Questionable Repute
756
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Posted - 2016.02.29 05:42:41 -
[72] - Quote
Aria Jenneth wrote:Gosakumori Noh wrote:In fact, if not in your little head, the conversation is about what those conversing discuss. If this is inconvenient to your little world view, then perhaps you should hold conversations in secure little playpens. Technically true. It's a little rude to derail people's discussions when you can start your own, however.
I despise the Amarrian regime. Being a little rude goes with the territory. Moreover, there are certainly more than a few Matari out there, somewhere, who would look upon Amarrian loyalists complaining about having discussions derailed with wry, knowing grins.
Tangentially, I *do* start conversations.
Anyone is free to try and derail one. I am skeptical someone possessing the force of personality required for such a feat would be so inclined, but all comers taken. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
1925
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Posted - 2016.02.29 07:17:31 -
[73] - Quote
Gosakumori Noh wrote:I despise the Amarrian regime. Being a little rude goes with the territory. Moreover, there are certainly more than a few Matari out there, somewhere, who would look upon Amarrian loyalists complaining about having discussions derailed with wry, knowing grins.
It seems like there's never any sort of Amarrian heretical component in a conflict without things getting really, intensely personal. Maybe that's just the nature of a civil conflict. Or of conflict, generally.
For me, too, a little, maybe. Maybe after a while I won't be able to see anything an opponent says as anything but a target for mockery and abuse.
I hope not, though. That sort of noise gets really boring, after a bit. Signal's more engaging. I think I prefer Miz lecturing me about ethics to faces sneering insults at each other. |
Mizhara Del'thul
T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan
639
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Posted - 2016.02.29 17:36:26 -
[74] - Quote
Frankly, just any Amarrian component in general tends to make things intensely personal, given how faith is almost always intertwined in the matter, or some very personal stances on big features of the Empire itself. It comes with the territory. Discuss anything related to the Empire and sooner or later it hits home on a personal level and discussion rapidly takes a turn for the worse.
Especially when faith comes into the mix, given that it always requires a metaphorical leap of faith at some point, which a significant part of the cluster instead regards as a drunken tumble down the jagged cliff faces of mount dumbarse, thus almost entirely removing the incentive to put any effort into the discussion anymore. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
1926
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Posted - 2016.02.29 19:14:21 -
[75] - Quote
Miz?
So-- it's one thing when your siblings are being killed by agents of a foreign power (or a repressed class, which from an experiential standpoint is maybe almost the same thing). It's kind of another when they're being killed by your cousin. Or your brother.
And that's leaving the through-a-mirror-darkly relationship between Amarr and Sani out of it.
(Thank you for worrying about my safety on this point, by the way. I've actually never been targeted by so much as a stern talking to over it, though, much less direct reprisal. The Amarr don't seem to have a problem with hard truths as such. I feel like they don't raise the point themselves either because it's just kind of painful to dwell on, or else because the close relationship is already implied by the word, "heretic.")
Things between the Matari and the Amarr can get fraught, admittedly, but the viciousness of conflicts between Amarr and Sani is just....
It's a feud: pervasive, vicious, deeply personal. Each side (but especially Sani, to whom sentiment seems to typically be a weakness to be exploited) will go well out of its way to cause the other pain. And they know each other well enough to be good at it.
I gather Ms. Noh is EoM; I don't really know how they relate to the Sani, though her affiliations imply they're compatible. Maybe some of this doesn't apply to her.
Probably it does, though. |
Mizhara Del'thul
T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan
639
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Posted - 2016.02.29 19:50:11 -
[76] - Quote
I think you underestimate the conflict between Matari and the slavers. For many of us it is extremely personal and we carry the scars from it. I myself left two limbs in the Empire, which was a price worth paying but a constant reminder nonetheless. For other Tribes born Matari the conflict may for all intents and purposes be nothing more than something occasionally seen on news broadcasts, but largely irrelevant to them.
I suspect the Empire doesn't have a much different culture for the average citizen. They'll occasionally hear about and decry the Sani Sabik, but they have their own lives to deal with and the Sani Sabik - while very much a Big Baddie - tend to be very very far away from their lives. For others, Sani Sabik and the struggle against them may be the dominant part of their life due to either personal history and experience or their position in the Empire.
Both nations will run the gamut from "eh, whatever" to "literally the only thing that matters!" when it comes to conflict with these nitwits.
As capsuleers, we're far more exposed to all the factions out there so we'll be far more likely to develop these focuses, priorities and personal attachments to conflicts. That doesn't mean the average dirtsider gets even close to sharing our sentiments and priorities when it comes to these conflicts.
Of course, that is not to say I underestimate how the Sani Sabik makes the Imperials uncomfortable given how close they are to each other's faith. The siblings facing off against each other is an accurate comparison.
All that said, my previous post wasn't so much a refutation of your previous post as an addendum clarifying a few points about why things tend to sooner or later get personal whenever the subject involves the Empire. |
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
1927
|
Posted - 2016.02.29 20:53:38 -
[77] - Quote
Mizhara Del'thul wrote:All that said, my previous post wasn't so much a refutation of your previous post as an addendum clarifying a few points about why things tend to sooner or later get personal whenever the subject involves the Empire.
Well, yes, and I do get that, Miz.
I kind of think most wars get personal, though. It's not just the ones involving the Amarr. People get crippled or killed; common ground, if any exists, gets kind of lost under all the bodies. That's not to say that the Matari and Amarr don't have more than most, but a lot of aspects of their relationship remind me of the Caldari and Gallente. There are piles of differences, of course, and I'd understand if you thought there was no comparison, but ... there's the same quality of two peoples, intertwined. You lost limbs. Utari's father died on Caldari Prime.
With the Sani, it seems like it's more one people. Neighbors. Relatives.
The best way I can illustrate how wide I think the gap is, is how prisoners are handled. I know various people differ on this, but-- it seems like Matari usually try to ransom captured Amarr back for some number of Matari, or else maybe try to trade them for someone specific.
Or, you know. ISK.
The Sani ... don't. At least from what I've seen so far, the Sani tend to keep the people they take, and send back a note saying something like, "I've got Uncle Aldin. Just thought you should know. Kisses!"
And a holorecording, with a lot of screaming.
And maybe a finger or something, sometimes. |
Gosakumori Noh
Hematology Advancement Program Of Questionable Repute
759
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Posted - 2016.02.29 21:43:50 -
[78] - Quote
There is little to gain from quantifying units of hatred. Although the mainline and "heretical" Amarrian sects consider their opposites to be treasonous filth not only to a civilization and people but also the Divine, dead is dead. I was once a sweet little thing....
...who is a good boy? Yes, that's right. You just keep that snickering to yourself....
However, observing the Cluster critically, I find it difficult to escape the conclusion that St. Ocilan was the Prophet who turned out to be right. Holding the EVE Gate open disordered the Universe and Mankind was damned. Everyone born in New Eden has been born into Hell. Our species will reduce in an ever shrinking pool of ever more violent and destructive persons until there is simply nothing left. Of Man.
Good riddance.
The Serpentis seek to escape this fate doping with toxins on the other side of kinky wormholes. A good plan, really.
Nation seeks to escape this fate in zombie Unity. I wish them well.
The Sani seek to escape this fate through the achievement of personal godhead. Like it or not, the Sani philosophy is in fact the fundamental current capsuleer reality: glorification of individual destructive potential. Which is basically, you know, the problem. In fact, trends suggest that as goes the ground pounder "god," someday so too may go the space jockey "god."
Something will inevitably replace us.
Who is a good boy!? That's right, you are!
Will the werewolves and zombies have learned from our transgressions? I have no idea. But he is a good boy, yes he is! |
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