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Marius Evo
Crack Babies
19
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Posted - 2016.02.16 09:11:00 -
[1] - Quote
This new layout of the new FAUX are just silly... And we have seen it before.
Why do you even make a Gallente and Minmatar variation when they have split rep bonus and no bonus for cap transfer.
Ill bet that you will see a lot of Apostle (Amarr) and Minokawa (Caldari) FAUX... And it will stay like that until you once again realises that the bonuses are useless and tweak the other two factions in line with the other two.
Why not do it before you let them into the game? This just feels like a waste of effort... |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
44526
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Posted - 2016.02.16 09:24:07 -
[2] - Quote
Assuming the same sort of capital fight tactics will continue after the changes, it's hard to disagree with that analysis.
The Gallente and Minmatar may have a role repping POSs, but for ship fights Amarr and Caldari will continue to be more relevant.
However, if cap warfare changes and the transfer becomes less useful, then who knows. Things could change. We'll have to wait to see I guess.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Nat Silverguard
Aideron Robotics
313
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Posted - 2016.02.16 09:30:50 -
[3] - Quote
yeah, i agree with the OP. it will only be apostle and minokawa on fleet fights...
Just Add Water
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Marius Evo
Crack Babies
19
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Posted - 2016.02.16 09:31:36 -
[4] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Assuming the same sort of capital fight tactics will continue after the changes, it's hard to disagree with that analysis.
The Gallente and Minmatar may have a role repping POSs, but for ship fights Amarr and Caldari will continue to be more relevant.
However, if cap warfare changes and the transfer becomes less useful, then who knows. Things could change. We'll have to wait to see I guess.
You are right, Sir. But I dont think it will change that much.
quote from dev blog -"Force Auxiliaries are going to completely take over the old Triage role from Carriers"
Without having tested them this tells me that thats excatly what they will become.
Time will tell and if I'm wrong I'll stand corrected! |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33360
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Posted - 2016.02.16 09:48:19 -
[5] - Quote
let's also give them the best tanks
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33360
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Posted - 2016.02.16 09:49:43 -
[6] - Quote
even though, you know, it's better to remote assist compared to local reps and remote assist are what they're about.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
|
Marius Evo
Crack Babies
19
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Posted - 2016.02.16 10:12:03 -
[7] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote: The Gallente and Minmatar may have a role repping POSs, but for ship fights Amarr and Caldari will continue to be more relevant.
Well... Since the new citadels vs. pos changes dont really need the reps with the vulnerability timers and all the "POS" rep role is kinda outplayed... or am I getting something wrong. This even more underline the statement that they are useless...
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5260
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Posted - 2016.02.16 10:51:05 -
[8] - Quote
Have you tested them thoroughly with the new modules?
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
44526
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Posted - 2016.02.16 11:03:41 -
[9] - Quote
Marius Evo wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote: The Gallente and Minmatar may have a role repping POSs, but for ship fights Amarr and Caldari will continue to be more relevant. Well... Since the new citadels vs. pos changes dont really need the reps with the vulnerability timers and all, the "POS" rep role is kinda outplayed... or am I getting something wrong. This even more underline the statement that they are useless... POSs aren't disappearing immediately. It'll still be quite a bit of time before that happens. Exact timeframe we don't know, but we know POSs will still be around for quite some time yet.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation
57
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Posted - 2016.02.16 11:07:31 -
[10] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:even though, you know, it's better to remote assist compared to local reps and remote assist are what they're about.
But you can't receive remote assist when in Triage-mode.
So, perhaps in some situations a local rep bonus may be useful?
Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33362
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Posted - 2016.02.16 11:08:57 -
[11] - Quote
in fairness the capital local ancillary reps might be worthwhile.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5262
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Posted - 2016.02.16 11:11:17 -
[12] - Quote
I honestly think they will be OP. CCP will do that just to prove that people "of old date" like Marius are wrong.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33362
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Posted - 2016.02.16 11:13:47 -
[13] - Quote
hah that's the hope, but I'd be happy with balanced. as in: not ****** up
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
|
Abannan
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
110
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Posted - 2016.02.16 11:22:27 -
[14] - Quote
Gallente/Minmatar maybe better to drop along blops or small gangs ganking something, not for huge fleets |
Sala Kyss
The Angel Cartel
122
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Posted - 2016.02.16 11:27:06 -
[15] - Quote
From the look of the bonus's, Amarr & Caldari will benefit cap fleet triage with bonus to overall rep per cycle, minmatar and gallante get a cycle time bonus which would be better for subcap triage where you might want to rep less per cycle in favour of switching cycles quicker. Another scenario would be you have longer rep cycles but with the ability to quickly switch and burst rep using the shorter cycle triage carriers when something gets primaried giving more time for the longer cycle / larger rep to switch. |
Marius Evo
Crack Babies
19
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Posted - 2016.02.16 11:34:52 -
[16] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:I honestly think they will be OP. CCP will do that just to prove that people "of old date" like Marius are wrong.
Haha Thx! I hope you are right!
I just get a deja vu with these layouts. Perhaps I'm just a dinosaur from the old days! |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33364
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Posted - 2016.02.16 12:10:22 -
[17] - Quote
Sala Kyss wrote:From the look of the bonus's, Amarr & Caldari will benefit cap fleet triage with bonus to overall rep per cycle, minmatar and gallante get a cycle time bonus which would be better for subcap triage where you might want to rep less per cycle in favour of switching cycles quicker. Another scenario would be you have longer rep cycles but with the ability to quickly switch and burst rep using the shorter cycle triage carriers when something gets primaried giving more time for the longer cycle / larger rep to switch. I seem to recall something about capital reps not being applied to subcaps anymore. As in they will disallow it. My suggestion was making reps (cap and subcap) apply based on the turret damage formula.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2949
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Posted - 2016.02.16 14:39:02 -
[18] - Quote
Idk. Triple CASB Lif is going to be the bane of many people for a while. |
Krevnos
Back Door Burglars The Otherworld
62
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Posted - 2016.02.16 15:37:53 -
[19] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Idk. Triple CASB Lif is going to be the bane of many people for a while.
CCP has indicated CASB's will be limited to one per ship. |
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
412
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Posted - 2016.02.16 16:21:35 -
[20] - Quote
Marius Evo wrote:This new layout of the new FAUX are just silly... And we have seen it before. Why do you even make a Gallente and Minmatar variation when they have split rep bonus and no bonus for cap transfer. Ill bet that you will see a lot of Apostle (Amarr) and Minokawa (Caldari) FAUX... And it will stay like that until you once again realises that the bonuses are useless and tweak the other two factions in line with the other two. Why not do it before you let them into the game? This just feels like a waste of effort...
It's worth remembering that the repping power of the new FAXes outside of Triage will be essentially nil - so no more slowcats. Each FAX providing capital reps is on its own for tank and cap. Think about them this way:
Amarr and Caldari FAXes are all passive - they will have a set amount of tank and remote rep/cap that they can bring to a battlefield, and that's it. They will be exhausted of resources at some point and be useless thereafter.
Gallente and Minmatar FAXes, on the other hand, are active - given enough cap charges, they can provide their level of assistance for as long as they're on the field.
Under different circumstances, each flavor of FAX will have advantages and disadvantages. Amarr and Caldari buffers will be advantageous against high incoming DPS that would overwhelm the active tank of Gallente and Minmatar. But against lower incoming DPS the Gallente and Minmatar FAXes can stay on the field for as long as needed while Amarr and Caldari would eventually run dry.
Which one you bring will depend on what sort of fleet you expect to be engaging. I suspect we'll see a lot of Amarr and Caldari FAXes in large nullsec fleet fights where supers and titans are on the field along with dozens of FAXes, while we'll see a lot of Gallente and Minmatar FAXes in lolsec games where it's just one or two FAXes being dropped.
(I'm not exactly sure how the Gal/Min FAXes not transferring cap will play out, though.)
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Marius Evo
Crack Babies
19
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Posted - 2016.02.16 21:12:51 -
[21] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Have you tested them thoroughly with the new modules?
I haven't tested any of them yet! |
Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments Second Empire.
1712
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Posted - 2016.02.16 21:14:43 -
[22] - Quote
Marius Evo wrote:Why do you even make a Gallente and Minmatar variation when they have split rep bonus and no bonus for cap transfer. It's almost like the FAX are taking over the remote rep roles of their previous carrier counterparts.
Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword
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Barrett Fruitcake
State War Academy Caldari State
48
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Posted - 2016.02.16 21:33:03 -
[23] - Quote
Lykouleon wrote:Marius Evo wrote:Why do you even make a Gallente and Minmatar variation when they have split rep bonus and no bonus for cap transfer. It's almost like the FAX are taking over the remote rep roles of their previous carrier counterparts.
j/k Well that doesn't make sense!
Moar seriously
There are probably a lot of other changes related to Capital warfare that will influence one's interpretation as well. I'm not saying this shouldn't be discussed, just be sure to take that into consideration.
To be honest though, the Minmatar Carriers have been the blacksheep for too long. It would be nice if the Minmatar FAX didn't follow suite simply because the Devs can't come up with a better bonus scheme for them.
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Marius Evo
Crack Babies
19
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Posted - 2016.02.16 22:19:36 -
[24] - Quote
Barrett Fruitcake wrote:
To be honest though, the Minmatar Carriers have been the blacksheep for too long. It would be nice if the Minmatar FAX didn't follow suite simply because the Devs can't come up with a better bonus scheme for them.
This! They just keep doing the same...
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Marius Evo
Crack Babies
19
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Posted - 2016.02.17 15:47:34 -
[25] - Quote
Eli Stan wrote:Marius Evo wrote:This new layout of the new FAUX are just silly... And we have seen it before. Why do you even make a Gallente and Minmatar variation when they have split rep bonus and no bonus for cap transfer. Ill bet that you will see a lot of Apostle (Amarr) and Minokawa (Caldari) FAUX... And it will stay like that until you once again realises that the bonuses are useless and tweak the other two factions in line with the other two. Why not do it before you let them into the game? This just feels like a waste of effort... It's worth remembering that the repping power of the new FAXes outside of Triage will be essentially nil - so no more slowcats. Each FAX providing capital reps is on its own for tank and cap. Think about them this way: Amarr and Caldari FAXes are all passive - they will have a set amount of tank and remote rep/cap that they can bring to a battlefield, and that's it. They will be exhausted of resources at some point and be useless thereafter. Gallente and Minmatar FAXes, on the other hand, are active - given enough cap charges, they can provide their level of assistance for as long as they're on the field. Under different circumstances, each flavor of FAX will have advantages and disadvantages. Amarr and Caldari buffers will be advantageous against high incoming DPS that would overwhelm the active tank of Gallente and Minmatar. But against lower incoming DPS the Gallente and Minmatar FAXes can stay on the field for as long as needed while Amarr and Caldari would eventually run dry. Which one you bring will depend on what sort of fleet you expect to be engaging. I suspect we'll see a lot of Amarr and Caldari FAXes in large nullsec fleet fights where supers and titans are on the field along with dozens of FAXes, while we'll see a lot of Gallente and Minmatar FAXes in lolsec games where it's just one or two FAXes being dropped. (I'm not exactly sure how the Gal/Min FAXes not transferring cap will play out, though.)
As all other statements this is spectulative untill tested. But that's not in line with the current use for carriers... And it still don't solve the cap problem for Minmatar and Gallente. No mater how much recharge they have... They ALMOST wont work out of triage!?
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33375
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Posted - 2016.02.17 16:03:01 -
[26] - Quote
Let's not forget one of the stated goals for force auxiliaries was limiting the survivability of a capital gang. That as long as you can break one force auxiliary, you can break a capital gang.
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
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Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2964
|
Posted - 2016.02.17 17:09:09 -
[27] - Quote
Krevnos wrote:Rowells wrote:Idk. Triple CASB Lif is going to be the bane of many people for a while. CCP has indicated CASB's will be limited to one per ship. Devblog says armor will, haven't heard anything about shield. |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
5352
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Posted - 2016.02.17 17:36:31 -
[28] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Let's not forget one of the stated goals for force auxiliaries was limiting the survivability of a capital gang. That as long as you can break one force auxiliary, you can break a capital gang. During discussion about capital ships, few years ago, I have made a comment about possible modifications to the ships, to make valid a situation when you would have ship considered as a king in chess. Having a lot of them would not be gamebreaking, would not give you greater advantages to a situation when there would be one. Seeing how fast can fire be shifted, auxiliaries could be just that. If only they would drop the HP on the capitals.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Marius Evo
Crack Babies
20
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Posted - 2016.02.23 13:24:25 -
[29] - Quote
Nana Skalski wrote:Rain6637 wrote:Let's not forget one of the stated goals for force auxiliaries was limiting the survivability of a capital gang. That as long as you can break one force auxiliary, you can break a capital gang. During discussion about capital ships, few years ago, I have made a comment about possible modifications to the ships, to make valid a situation when you would have ship considered as a king in chess. Having a lot of them would not be gamebreaking, would not give you greater advantages to a situation when there would be one. Seeing how fast can fire be shifted, auxiliaries could be just that. If only they would drop the HP on the capitals.
Do you have a link and is it still valid?
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Daerrol
Death By Design Did he say Jump
294
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Posted - 2016.02.23 15:02:56 -
[30] - Quote
Wormholers and medium sized lowsec alliamces will love the local reps. I have several times been on field with only 1-2 capitals in the entire fight. It does happen. |
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