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Uke
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.03.06 00:46:46 -
[121] - Quote
Inquisitor Tyr wrote:Removing the watch list notifications without an effective replacement system will reduce conflict and content. Consequences will be increased effectiveness of AFK cloaky campers, and fewer junior FCs stepping into larger FC roles.
AFK cloaky campers can be mitigated through a bit of research into who they represent. Hotdropers leave a trail of killmails that leads back to their bridging pilots. When watchlisted, you can accurately assess if the neutral pilot sitting in system for the past week is asleep. Removing the watch list notification will amplify AFK Cloaking, which is widely considered one of the most broken mechanics in the game.
Alliance level FCs utilize a large intel network to make them effective in large scale engagements. Eg: He/She will have scout alts watching the enemy staging systems and often have spys on the other side.
Aspiring junior and mid level FCs rarely have access to the same info. Some of this is due to the necessity of keeping your FC channels small for op-sec (and spam comment reduction). But with a bit of research, and trial by fire, junior FCs can eventually find out who the hostile titan pilot may be.
In sum, removing this bit of intel further compunds the problems that new FCs face as they try to build confidence in their abilities not just to themselves but, more importantly, to the people who may attend their fleet.
Reduced confidence in an FC leads to lower participation on his fleets. If your junior FC is constantly getting dropped on and dunked, people will stop going on his fleets. The spin off effect is that people will only want to attend fleets with their Main Alliance FC. Fewer junior FCs will have the chance to learn and grow into senior positions in circumstances where their enemy uses capitals regularly. Fewer FCs will lead to less fleets, more stand downs, more blue balled fleets, and less content overall.
I dont disagree that it would make some sense to remove the metagame aspect of the watch list; however, has an effective in game system been designed and implemented to replace this lost functionality ?
Now that the online-status of the entire enemy super fleet isn't available at any time, no one will use supers anymore, capital combat in eve will grind to a halt. Everyone sell all your caps quick. Eve is dying.
/s
You don't have to use your supers/caps if you don't want to, we still will.
The ability to see the online-status of anyone you want, or not, is inherently fair for us all.
Removing the watch-list brings us back to a point of neutrality. Having intel about the online-status of individuals is leveraged however, from larger groups against the smaller.
The the usefulness of watch-list information is proportional to the disparity in numbers of the hunted vs the hunter.
If a 500 man alliance is hunting an individual super. Tell me who's watch-list contains more valuable information.
It all comes down to scouting, as it should.
I'm kind of taken-aback by all the support for the watch-list.
Everyone keeping their caps logged off until the opportune moment, having to 'watch-list' swathes of people so you know when they've logged their characters in. Bleh, just a garbage intel tool. I generally don't even care about immersion but it's just so blatant a breaking of it that it leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's just a crap mechanic whose existence is completely unnecessary.
Really, the intel provided by the watch-list benefits larger groups over the smaller more than anything. Which is why it's not entirely surprising to see a fair amount of guys from the larger groups upset about it's removal. Imagine the difficulty of keeping track, or even hunting, individual supers all over the galaxy when you have to scout each one individually as opposed to opening your People & Places.
Quote:Make sure to log in some more alt accounts and spam the thread to misrepresent the consensus.
Doesn't say a lot for your credibility when you need to make unsubstantiated accusations of your opposition in an attempt to undermine them, while appropriating "consensus" as if you spoke for everyone else who has posted in this thread.
Argue the point. |
Shalmon Aliatus
Bluestar Enterprises The Craftsmen
8
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Posted - 2016.03.06 05:25:21 -
[122] - Quote
Uke wrote:
-stuff
Really, the intel provided by the watch-list benefits larger groups over the smaller more than anything. Which is why it's not entirely surprising to see a fair amount of guys from the larger groups upset about it's removal. Imagine the difficulty of keeping track, or even hunting, individual supers all over the galaxy when you have to scout each one individually as opposed to opening your People & Places.
Besides that the scout has to be in system with the super pilot to see if he is online and if the super pilot checks the system with an alt to see if there is someone in the system, he will not log in (Because his alt can not see if there are any super pilots online).
So it does benefit the big groups, that know nobody will be even near the super and if there was someone, they could easily kill them.
Also is bad for small groups at war, because they don't know if their war targets are online (I am speaking of new corps with new players facing pirates that declare war on a lot of corps because they hope they can catch a frigate, mining ship or industrial with T3 destroyers and cruisers). But the war system is stupid anyway (would prefer a system where you declare war on someone because you want to archieve a bigger goal besides "getting some easy kills", like destroying a citadel or a customs office). The current war system is shoving money on CONCORD eyes so they don't see that you are a terrorist (asymmetrical war). Would prefer a system where you bribe CONCORD to look away when you are agressing a specific target (so the defender knows what they should defend, instead of having no idea and just playing a different game for a week or two because they might die). |
Threm
Heavy Rains Public-Enemy
6
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Posted - 2016.03.06 13:01:49 -
[123] - Quote
Thanks for the valuable feedbacks meanwhile.
But one cannot argue: It is not balanced because it can be used by enemy in my disadvantage (see the war dec comments).
Why you are not arguing: the war targets get in trouble because they cannot see their wardeccers being online? It is much easier to watchlist a few dozens wardeccers than watchlist a thousand war targets!
I tell you why: because deep down you know they are not using it accordingly, they are not even able to read the notification the war has started sometimes. But since when players are not responsible for their own to use a game feature?? Give new players a adequte part in the "Opportunities"!
It is balanced because both sides can use it without any further requirements for their individual advantage. Thats the point. Removing it will without any new idea like the coupling to locater agents increase efforts only but not balance. |
Saffoo
Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic
0
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Posted - 2016.03.06 20:43:08 -
[124] - Quote
I do like the way CCP are announcing this rather large change by putting it under the "Miscellaneous" heading of the patch notes, which tbh is where the majority of players will see it and/or wonder why the hell their watchlist isn't working on tuesday
Yup
Nice job CCP
Flame on! |
Threm
Heavy Rains Public-Enemy
9
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Posted - 2016.03.07 15:30:45 -
[125] - Quote
Saffoo wrote:I do like the way CCP are announcing this rather large change by putting it under the "Miscellaneous" heading of the patch notes, which tbh is where the majority of players will see it and/or wonder why the hell their watchlist isn't working on tuesday
Yup
Nice job CCP
Flame on!
Yea, CCP, exactly.
1. Announcing it on some fanfest by picture, where it is only spreaded by coincidence. 2. Have a 2 weeks preparation phase 3. Dont bring up an Forum Thread or Dev Blog to get the response of the community. It could confuse with facts.
Ok, as always, adapt or die.
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Madd Adda
154
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Posted - 2016.03.07 20:40:00 -
[126] - Quote
what's the point of the "buddy list" now? if we really wanted to keep track of people we call friends, that are outside of our corps, we would just create a channel and invite those people and continue on our merry way.
So once again, what's the point of this?
Carebear extraordinaire
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Starrakatt
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps FETID
380
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Posted - 2016.03.07 21:53:54 -
[127] - Quote
Madd Adda wrote:what's the point of the "buddy list" now? if we really wanted to keep track of people we call friends, that are outside of our corps, we would just create a channel and invite those people and continue on our merry way.
So once again, what's the point of this? The new Buddy List has no real point, as you said, its only a band aid on the Watchlist removal, to reduce the level of outcry, basically.
The real point is Watchlist removal.
Sneaky bastard.
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Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
950
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Posted - 2016.03.08 04:50:11 -
[128] - Quote
So... Server log scraping? And automated pay to track service?
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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Madd Adda
154
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Posted - 2016.03.08 05:13:12 -
[129] - Quote
Starrakatt wrote:Madd Adda wrote:what's the point of the "buddy list" now? if we really wanted to keep track of people we call friends, that are outside of our corps, we would just create a channel and invite those people and continue on our merry way.
So once again, what's the point of this? The new Buddy List has no real point, as you said, its only a band aid on the Watchlist removal, to reduce the level of outcry, basically. The real point is Watchlist removal.
Without anything meaningful to replace it. CCP could have just removed watchlists altogether and accomplish the same thing.
Carebear extraordinaire
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Starrakatt
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps FETID
380
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Posted - 2016.03.08 13:20:02 -
[130] - Quote
Madd Adda wrote:Starrakatt wrote:Madd Adda wrote:what's the point of the "buddy list" now? if we really wanted to keep track of people we call friends, that are outside of our corps, we would just create a channel and invite those people and continue on our merry way.
So once again, what's the point of this? The new Buddy List has no real point, as you said, its only a band aid on the Watchlist removal, to reduce the level of outcry, basically. The real point is Watchlist removal. Without anything meaningful to replace it. CCP could have just removed watchlists altogether and accomplish the same thing. Yep.
Sneaky bastard.
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2651
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Posted - 2016.03.08 16:02:51 -
[131] - Quote
Saffoo wrote:I do like the way CCP are announcing this rather large change by putting it under the "Miscellaneous" heading of the patch notes, which tbh is where the majority of players will see it and/or wonder why the hell their watchlist isn't working on tuesday
Yup
Nice job CCP
Flame on!
Where exactly would you have classified this change? |
Morrigan LeSante
Black Omega Security The OSS
1330
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Posted - 2016.03.08 17:39:01 -
[132] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Saffoo wrote:I do like the way CCP are announcing this rather large change by putting it under the "Miscellaneous" heading of the patch notes, which tbh is where the majority of players will see it and/or wonder why the hell their watchlist isn't working on tuesday
Yup
Nice job CCP
Flame on! Where exactly would you have classified this change?
If it's as big a deal as the crying super owners made it out to be; then it's is clearly deserving of its own blog. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2651
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Posted - 2016.03.08 18:20:12 -
[133] - Quote
Morrigan LeSante wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Saffoo wrote:I do like the way CCP are announcing this rather large change by putting it under the "Miscellaneous" heading of the patch notes, which tbh is where the majority of players will see it and/or wonder why the hell their watchlist isn't working on tuesday
Yup
Nice job CCP
Flame on! Where exactly would you have classified this change? If it's as big a deal as the crying super owners made it out to be; then it's is clearly deserving of its own blog.
I mean inside the patch note since the place where it was listed seem to be a huge deal. |
Morrigan LeSante
Black Omega Security The OSS
1330
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Posted - 2016.03.08 18:42:47 -
[134] - Quote
Yeah patch note location is irrelevant, the lack of open official comms in the run up is pretty bad though. |
Annexe
I N E X T R E M I S Tactical Narcotics Team
25
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Posted - 2016.03.09 10:08:11 -
[135] - Quote
"Seeing a character's online status now requires mutual consent: You will only by able to see the online status of characters on your Buddy List if they have also added you to their list."
New tactic - Win by NOT playing the game!
Annexe
ITAI - VIP
"i will pop your wreck with faction loot"
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