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Zifrian
Deep Space Innovations
84
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Posted - 2011.12.16 13:59:00 -
[31] - Quote
Well, they said frigates first.
But since you have more DPS and tank on a CRUISER than most battleships, I have a feeling capital damage and tank in high-sec is a bad idea and won't ever happen.
They need to balance out the cruisers first where they are customizable ships mainly and not so powerful. Then it would be a nice thing. Maximze your Industry Potential! - Get EVE Isk per Hour!
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Alexa Coates
LNTC
22
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Posted - 2011.12.16 14:16:00 -
[32] - Quote
tech 3 mining barges would be nice, and could function like current t3's, in that they are a combination of all the T2 cruiser roles. A t3 barge could have the ability to get ice mining bonus, gas collecting bonus, and of course rock bonuses. Another set of subsystems could give miners a defensive role, so they can live longer in case the fecal matter contacts the rotating air circulation device.
Love my Gallente Federation Navy ships! |
mnybag1
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2011.12.16 14:30:00 -
[33] - Quote
I have been thinking about a Tech 3 orca of sorts. Would require a whole new set of subsystems but the idea would be based on the fact that the orca already has a modular look to it. It still would not be able to mine (not anymore anyway, i.e. mining drones) and would not give any better bonuses, but would give miners a new toy and something they can personalize to fit their needs. There could be a subsystem to allow it to use ore compressor( maybe less effieciently to make a difference), to give it bigger drone bay/drones, for defense, for bigger cargo bay, make it able to carry combat ships, more tank, more agility, more command modules, a logistics role, guns, etc. etc.
Feel free to point out why this would be stupid, it is still a larval form idea in my mind. I think it would be cool, give indies to work towards that want to stick to high sec but without killing the mineral market by making minerals easier to get. |
Dutarro
Matari Munitions The Fendahlian Collective
21
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Posted - 2011.12.16 14:34:00 -
[34] - Quote
Alexa Coates wrote:tech 3 mining barges would be nice, and could function like current t3's, in that they are a combination of all the T2 cruiser roles. A t3 barge could have the ability to get ice mining bonus, gas collecting bonus, and of course rock bonuses. Another set of subsystems could give miners a defensive role, so they can live longer in case the fecal matter contacts the rotating air circulation device.
Perhaps a niche role for the so-called "Tech III Battleship" .. a combat ship with some industrial capability. With pure combat subsystems it's about as good as a Marauder or faction BS. With cargo subsystems it's a well-defended hauler. With mining systems it's nearly as good as a Hulk, but with much better defenses.
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Alski
Natural Progression
9
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Posted - 2011.12.16 14:42:00 -
[35] - Quote
Hopefully Never.
Look at T3 cruisers and (ignoring cost) see what they've already made obsolete:
All HACs. Partly usurped Force Recons. Partly usurped Command Ships for fleet bonuses All Covops. (and with far less training time for an equivalent probe strength) And they're now for the most part the PVE/Mission running boats of choice, so they've already made BS/BC for PVE obsolete.
Do we really need to finish obsoleteing the entire Battleship / Battlecruiser class as well?
Oh sure, they're far more expensive than any of these, skillpoint loss, blah blah. but not expensive enough for a ship that can do the job of many others better than those focused purpose ships can do themselves, and with only a fraction of the SP required. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks Petition Blizzard
408
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Posted - 2011.12.16 14:44:00 -
[36] - Quote
I'd like to see a new T2 BC based on the tier 2 hulls. My idea would be a covert ops "explorer" ship. Balance would be tricky but it would be amazing if they could make it work. |
Lord Ryan
True Xero
136
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Posted - 2011.12.16 14:58:00 -
[37] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:The first thing Eve needs right now is more ships. Even the Tier 3 BCs where a bad idea. There are dozens of ships and multiple ship classes that really need balancing. Adding in more only adds too the pimpness of the game.
Yeah I agree! -á"Nerf it cause I can't fly it". I want to fly a badass Mon Calamari stlye-ácruiser painted to match my Tron clothes. |
adopt
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
161
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Posted - 2011.12.16 15:06:00 -
[38] - Quote
Alski wrote:Hopefully Never.
Look at T3 cruisers and (ignoring cost) see what they've already made obsolete:
All HACs. Partly usurped Force Recons. Partly usurped Command Ships for fleet bonuses All Covops. (and with far less training time for an equivalent probe strength) And they're now for the most part the PVE/Mission running boats of choice, so they've already made BS/BC for PVE obsolete.
Do we really need to finish obsoleteing the entire Battleship / Battlecruiser class as well?
Oh sure, they're far more expensive than any of these, skillpoint loss, blah blah. but not expensive enough for a ship that can do the job of many others better than those focused purpose ships can do themselves, and with only a fraction of the SP required.
Battleships do not cost 500mil+
Its faster to train for a covert ops frigate num nuts, frigate V is 7 days, cruiser V is 16. Command ships are great for being used on the field, have you attempted to get a boosting Tengu, Legion or Loki to get anywhere near a tank that can fit 3 gang links? I prefer to mission in a domi than a tengu Even then, I prefer the drake to the tengu for missions (I only use the tengu for sanctums lol)
Thus, your argument is invalid. Shadoo > Always remember to fit Cynosural Field Generator I, have 450 Liquid Ozone in your cargo and convo a friendly Pandemic Legion member if you have a capital or super capital ship tackled. |
mnybag1
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2011.12.16 15:09:00 -
[39] - Quote
Alski wrote:Hopefully Never.
Look at T3 cruisers and (ignoring cost) see what they've already made obsolete:
All HACs. Partly usurped Force Recons. Partly usurped Command Ships for fleet bonuses All Covops. (and with far less training time for an equivalent probe strength) And they're now for the most part the PVE/Mission running boats of choice, so they've already made BS/BC for PVE obsolete.
Do we really need to finish obsoleteing the entire Battleship / Battlecruiser class as well?
Oh sure, they're far more expensive than any of these, skillpoint loss, blah blah. but not expensive enough for a ship that can do the job of many others better than those focused purpose ships can do themselves, and with only a fraction of the SP required.
Strange how it has made them all obsolete, yet they are all still used all the time.... >.>
It takes MUCH more sp to fly a proby tengu then it does to fly a buzzard, and about 100 times more expensive. I also do not know many people that would pick a tengu over a rook or falcon for ECM Recon Role, or to cyno in a friendly fleet. |
Kievan Arakyd
MarSec Industries STR8NGE BREW
1
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Posted - 2011.12.16 15:24:00 -
[40] - Quote
You want a new mining ship?
Narwahl T2 Orca Hull +25% added to strip miner cycle time +300$ strip miner/ice harvester range +500% survey scan range
Requires new skill Harvester Barge (requires Exhumers V, Advanced Spaceship #?) +10% capacity Ore hold per lvl -5% cycle time per level (similar to mackinaw ice harvester)
Fitting 6 high 2 med 2 low
Shield Armor Structure: Should be more than hulk, but far less than Orca
Cargo: 0 Ore hold: 50000 (75000 @ lvl 5) No ship maint bay or corp hangars (no hauling of any thing other than raw ore)
Designed by ORE in YC 113 as a response to calls from mining operations for a more robust mining barge (due to recent attacks ) ORE released this class of Orca-hull ships refitted to mine ore, resulting in more protection and productivity for miners. Internal cargo optimizations come at a cost however, less structural integrity compared to the Orca command class.
Ochre/Gunmetal default paint scheme |
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Fidelium Mortis
Quantum Cats Syndicate
3
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Posted - 2011.12.16 15:26:00 -
[41] - Quote
I look forward to the Tech 3 BS about as much as I do the Tech 3 industrial ship. More T2 options on the otherhand that have specialized roles could be interesting. ICRS - Intergalactic Certified Rocket Surgeon |
Aeril Malkyre
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
49
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Posted - 2011.12.16 15:32:00 -
[42] - Quote
I'd have to agree that such a BS would be far too redonkulous. People rail against the Mach, for example, for it's ridiculous damage, high speed, high tank. Based on how Strategic Cruisers were implemented, you could imagine that of the new BS line, every one would be Mach level or above. Plus cost about 3 billion just to piece together the hull. It's a cool concept, and I can always use more shiny to chase, but there's no way it could be balanced.
The idea I do like is the Tech 3 industrials. I don't even mine, but it seems the most likely place for such a hull. Currently there is a huge hauling gap between industrials and freighters, for example. You can skill and rig and mod a Mammoth up to maybe 30,000 m3 of cargo. But the very first ship after that in terms of raw hauling is a capital size freighter with 720,000 m3. Some might say the Orca is supposed to be the middle ground, but that's a much more skill intensive ship, and meant to fulfill a number of other roles.
Enter a Tech 3 moddable hull that can be a mid-size hauler (between 30 and 720), or a mini-Orca with mining bonuses, or be a damn good miner as the next step up for a Hulk pilot, or be a compressor with extra drones for defense, or whatever. I think you'd run into far less balance issues with an industrial Tech 3 hull than any other. And provide a bit of a shot in the arm for all the industrialists out there who don't often get new toys. |
Alski
Natural Progression
9
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Posted - 2011.12.16 15:58:00 -
[43] - Quote
adopt Its faster to train for a covert ops frigate num nuts, frigate V is 7 days, cruiser V is 16.[/quote wrote:
[quote=mnybag1] It takes MUCH more sp to fly a proby tengu then it does to fly a buzzard, and about 100 times more expensive.
Do you fly with a lot of people that don't already have a cruiser V and don't have competent support skills for a cruiser hull these days?
Racial SAC electronic systems V is 4 days Covert Ops V is about 17 days
Ships with extremely focused roles requiring lots of SP that has little other utility should perform better than a T3 with a 4 day subsystem V. |
mnybag1
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2011.12.16 16:07:00 -
[44] - Quote
No. Just No.
If you are going to do a SP comparisons you have to assume starting from beginning so you can treat it as a general case. Furthermore, Cov Ops 5 is not needed at all: 4 is plenty for the purposes of a cloaky scout or prober.
As to your question, I actually do fly with people that do not have cruiser 5 because I choose to accept some new players into my corp to give them a chance to learn.
Lastly, even if you want to compare them how you are trying to, the T3 still costs close to 50 times the cost of a fully fitted cov ops scanning frig, even if you do have t2 rigs on (which you probably wuldnt want on your tengu) |
Krios Ahzek
Juvenis Iratus
303
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Posted - 2011.12.16 16:39:00 -
[45] - Quote
Kievan Arakyd wrote:You want a new mining ship? Narwahl T2 Orca Hull +25% added to strip miner cycle time +300$ strip miner/ice harvester range +500% survey scan range Requires new skill Harvester Barge (requires Exhumers V, Advanced Spaceship #?) +10% capacity Ore hold per lvl -5% cycle time per level (similar to mackinaw ice harvester) Fitting 6 high 2 med 2 low Shield Armor Structure: Should be more than hulk, but far less than Orca Cargo: 0 Ore hold: 50000 (75000 @ lvl 5) No ship maint bay or corp hangars (no hauling of any thing other than raw ore) Designed by ORE in YC 113 as a response to calls from mining operations for a more robust mining barge (due to recent attacks ) ORE released this class of Orca-hull ships refitted to mine ore, resulting in more protection and productivity for miners. Internal cargo optimizations come at a cost however, less structural integrity compared to the Orca command class. Ochre/Gunmetal default paint scheme
Ok but it costs 3 billion Do not take me for some conjurer of cheap tricks. |
Kievan Arakyd
MarSec Industries STR8NGE BREW
1
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Posted - 2011.12.16 16:40:00 -
[46] - Quote
Krios Ahzek wrote:Kievan Arakyd wrote:You want a new mining ship? Narwahl T2 Orca Hull +25% added to strip miner cycle time +300$ strip miner/ice harvester range +500% survey scan range Requires new skill Harvester Barge (requires Exhumers V, Advanced Spaceship #?) +10% capacity Ore hold per lvl -5% cycle time per level (similar to mackinaw ice harvester) Fitting 6 high 2 med 2 low Shield Armor Structure: Should be more than hulk, but far less than Orca Cargo: 0 Ore hold: 50000 (75000 @ lvl 5) No ship maint bay or corp hangars (no hauling of any thing other than raw ore) Designed by ORE in YC 113 as a response to calls from mining operations for a more robust mining barge (due to recent attacks ) ORE released this class of Orca-hull ships refitted to mine ore, resulting in more protection and productivity for miners. Internal cargo optimizations come at a cost however, less structural integrity compared to the Orca command class. Ochre/Gunmetal default paint scheme Ok but it costs 3 billion
I'm ok with that. |
Alski
Natural Progression
9
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Posted - 2011.12.16 16:42:00 -
[47] - Quote
mnybag1 wrote:No. Just No.
If you are going to do a SP comparisons you have to assume starting from beginning so you can treat it as a general case.
Nope. Covops is a ship skill that gives you specialisation at probing. Electronic Subsystems is a ship skill that gives you specialisation at probing, and more!
Cruiser V gets you into a lot more than just T3's just as Frigate V gets you into a lot more than just covops, these are only specialisations for the T1 ship hulls until you choose to train a T2/T3 ship class that requires them.
mnybag1 wrote: Cov Ops 5 is not needed at all: 4 is plenty for the purposes of a cloaky scout or prober.
Which makes my point all the more: T3's allow you to do a BETTER job than a specialised ship for LESS SP invested, and that SP invested has more than one use due to other subsystems.
mnybag1 wrote:
As to your question, I actually do fly with people that do not have cruiser 5 because I choose to accept some new players into my corp to give them a chance to learn.
I fly with a lot of players who are around the "slightly less than a year" to 1.5 years range, I'd say 80% of them have a cruiser V, and of those, 90% have a T3 or are looking to get one, I think that says a fair bit about what roles T3's have usurped.
Don't get me wrong, I like T3's, I don't want em nerfed in any way, if anything certain subsystems need to be made more useful, but they have hugely distorted the role gap between certain ship classes. I don't see anyway Battleship T3's could be properly balanced, or worse: T3 BC's would be the next logical step, and such a thing could only be ridiculous. |
Large Collidable Object
morons.
673
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Posted - 2011.12.16 17:25:00 -
[48] - Quote
Considering T3 Industrials: Adding a couple indutrial subsystems to existing T3 cruisers would do the trick. mining barges are medium ships anyway, so add e.g. a 'Cargohold expansion' hauling subsystem and others for gas/ice/strip miners - and there you go:
T3 industrials with enourmous versatility due to the ability to combine them with existing subs. Fitted purely for industry, they shouldn't be as good as their t2 industrial counterparts, but they'd have their niche.
Quite opposed to T3 BS and even more so tier 3 frigs: You thought the Dramiel turned frig pvp into a wasteland? Just imagine a frigate sized tengu or a T3 rifter. Gah! morons- sting like a butterfly and-ápost like a bee. |
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