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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Som Boty
Super Mother Fan Club
19
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Posted - 2016.02.25 01:12:54 -
[301] - Quote
Matthew Reddy wrote:Can i use ISBoxer for window management as long as i do not broadcast?. Can i get a clear answer on this.
yea ccp, can this guy get an answer please? |
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
676
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Posted - 2016.02.25 02:07:21 -
[302] - Quote
Dart Aurel wrote:There are 2 questions regarding windows switching policy points: 1. Is it prohibited to have 2 clients open and visible each on its own monitor? 2. I play EVE Online under Linux + Wine. Also I have tiled WM (xmonad) which allows to switch windows really fast (<50ms delay). Is this fair use or is it an exploit?
I am in that same boat.
Here are some examples for 1.:
http://i.imgur.com/PddMsja.jpg http://i.imgur.com/MsqLlZo.jpg http://i.imgur.com/dPSFxnO.jpg
Although only one uses "overlays" (or 9000 hours of mspaint, actually), they all "allow a player to get real time intel from all those other game instances without having to switch to the other windows" so I have to assume all three are a breach of the EULA?
As for 2. - All things GNU Linux are probably 3rd party software most of you don't know a lot about. The X Server, open source graphics drivers and window managers all influence how the eve client looks and where it shows up on my screen(s). So ... danger zone as well? |
Proxay
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
41
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Posted - 2016.02.25 02:08:48 -
[303] - Quote
Chalithra Lathar wrote:Proxay wrote:See this? This is the kind of **** that shouldn't be possible in EVE, it allows one player to control 11 Algos' in PVP simultaneously, allowing for outcomes that shouldn't be possible. what is drone assist. He wasn't assisting drones.
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Proxay
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
41
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Posted - 2016.02.25 02:10:58 -
[304] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Dart Aurel wrote:There are 2 questions regarding windows switching policy points: 1. Is it prohibited to have 2 clients open and visible each on its own monitor? 2. I play EVE Online under Linux + Wine. Also I have tiled WM (xmonad) which allows to switch windows really fast (<50ms delay). Is this fair use or is it an exploit? I am in that same boat. Here are some examples for 1.: http://i.imgur.com/PddMsja.jpg http://i.imgur.com/MsqLlZo.jpg http://i.imgur.com/dPSFxnO.jpg Although only one uses "overlays" (or 9000 hours of mspaint, actually), they all "allow a player to get real time intel from all those other game instances without having to switch to the other windows" so I have to assume all three are a breach of the EULA? As for 2. - All things GNU Linux are probably 3rd party software most of you don't know a lot about. The X Server, open source graphics drivers and window managers all influence how the eve client looks and where it shows up on my screen(s). So ... danger zone as well?
I hope CCP can have someone just say outright: "1 is not okay, 2 and 3 are fine". Because 1 is utilising overlaying **** to make it so you can click through without changing clients, whereas 2 and 3 are separate clients that you're interacting with.
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Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
676
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Posted - 2016.02.25 02:52:14 -
[305] - Quote
Proxay wrote:I hope CCP can have someone just say outright: "1 is not okay, 2 and 3 are fine". Because 1 is utilising overlaying **** to make it so you can click through without changing clients, whereas 2 and 3 are separate clients that you're interacting with. I'd be fine with this, except for one thing: If that is what they mean, why don't they put that into their effing rules the way they mean it?
Because, if you lawyer the **** out of the EULA the way it is written now, basically everything you can do in Eve is technically a bannable offense, which is downright stupid. One of my favourites is this one:
"You may not transfer, sell or auction, or buy or accept any offer to transfer, sell or auction (or offer to do any of the foregoing), any content appearing within the Game environment, including without limitation characters, character attributes, items, currency, and objects, other than via a permitted Character Transfer as described in section 3 above."
If that is so, what the deuce is the market, the trade window and the contract system for? |
Proxay
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
41
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Posted - 2016.02.25 03:05:51 -
[306] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Proxay wrote:I hope CCP can have someone just say outright: "1 is not okay, 2 and 3 are fine". Because 1 is utilising overlaying **** to make it so you can click through without changing clients, whereas 2 and 3 are separate clients that you're interacting with. I'd be fine with this, except for one thing: If that is what they mean, why don't they put that into their effing rules the way they mean it? Because, if you lawyer the **** out of the EULA the way it is written now, basically everything you can do in Eve is technically a bannable offense, which is downright stupid. One of my favourites is this one: "You may not transfer, sell or auction, or buy or accept any offer to transfer, sell or auction (or offer to do any of the foregoing), any content appearing within the Game environment, including without limitation characters, character attributes, items, currency, and objects, other than via a permitted Character Transfer as described in section 3 above."If that is so, what the deuce is the market, the trade window and the contract system for?
You'd love the non-compete agreements I signed for work if you think the EULA is broad.
This is legal ****, legal **** is meant to mean "WE WIN EVERY TIME EVERYWHERE", selective enforcement is what counts, how they use it, etc. They're going to have a big toolbox, they just need to get down here, into this damn thread and off Reddit, and post a reply!
Why are we all sitting here trying to reinterpret the bible when the author can just write a quick post going "Yes", "No", "Whatever, quit". Seriously CCP, where the hell are your community liaisons.
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Alundil
Isogen 5
1091
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Posted - 2016.02.25 03:12:34 -
[307] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:Say I have eight screens next to each other in a 2x4 grid, and several of them are scouts in neighboring systems, or cloaked on every hole in a wormhole chain. I don't use any client overlays because they're all side by side and I can see them just fine. Am I breaking rules about unfair advantages?
What's missing from the announcement is intent. If it's purely to reduce unfair advantage, it's odd to think the problem is overlays and not the playability of multiple clients and a bit of hardware.
What are you really getting at? I'll refrain from expecting any meaningful response to this abortion of a devblog. It offers zero clarification. In other news, going to try and make it out to the meetup this weekend.
I'm right behind you
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Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
676
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Posted - 2016.02.25 03:17:46 -
[308] - Quote
Proxay wrote:This is legal ****, legal **** is meant to mean "WE WIN EVERY TIME EVERYWHERE", selective enforcement is what counts, how they use it, etc.
Welp - I just got triggered, I guess.
You are completely right of course. I just can't stand obvious hypocrisy. If you are going to be insincere, at least try to not be so obvious about it. As it currently stands they could write "Whatever you do we may or may not tolerate. We can ban you at any point for any reason we pull out of our ass" into the EULA and not change the content.
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Memphis Baas
1196
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Posted - 2016.02.25 03:28:15 -
[309] - Quote
Alundil wrote:I'll refrain from expecting any meaningful response to this abortion of a devblog. It offers zero clarification.
Also the graph, it's not just useless, it's wrong. Their ban and EULA enforcement policies are clearly designed to achieve a log reduction in RMT, but they only predict a gradual linear reduction? A linear reduction is the result you get when the RMT'ers get bored of how much they're making and gradually move to other games.
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Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
676
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Posted - 2016.02.25 03:30:32 -
[310] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:Also the graph, it's not just useless, it's wrong. Their ban and EULA enforcement policies are clearly designed to achieve a log reduction in RMT, but they only predict a gradual linear reduction? A linear reduction is the result you get when the RMT'ers get bored of how much they're making and gradually move to other games.
It's meant as a joke.
At least, I hope it's meant as a joke
Oh god, please let it be meant as a joke! |
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Proxay
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
41
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Posted - 2016.02.25 03:31:07 -
[311] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Proxay wrote:This is legal ****, legal **** is meant to mean "WE WIN EVERY TIME EVERYWHERE", selective enforcement is what counts, how they use it, etc. Welp - I just got triggered, I guess. You are completely right of course. I just can't stand obvious hypocrisy. If you are going to be insincere, at least try to not be so obvious about it. As it currently stands they could write "Whatever you do we may or may not tolerate. We can ban you at any point for any reason we pull out of our ass" into the EULA and not change the content.
Doesn't it say that already?
The good thing is, CCP is a business that makes games for profit. They follow money and love customers. We're customers, and right/wrong they're gonna wanna keep getting those dank RL bucks.
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Proxay
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
41
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Posted - 2016.02.25 03:31:54 -
[312] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:Alundil wrote:I'll refrain from expecting any meaningful response to this abortion of a devblog. It offers zero clarification. Also the graph, it's not just useless, it's wrong. Their ban and EULA enforcement policies are clearly designed to achieve a log reduction in RMT, but they only predict a gradual linear reduction? A linear reduction is the result you get when the RMT'ers get bored of how much they're making and gradually move to other games.
ayo it's a joke bro
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Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
676
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Posted - 2016.02.25 03:35:56 -
[313] - Quote
Proxay wrote:The good thing is, CCP is a business that makes games for profit. They follow money and love customers. We're customers, and right/wrong they're gonna wanna keep getting those dank RL bucks. I bet they do. I'll just keep believing then.
Fake Edit: CCP is a company that made ONE game they mysteriously turned into a profit.There, FTFY |
Alundil
Isogen 5
1091
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Posted - 2016.02.25 03:40:07 -
[314] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:
Pirate's Little Helper doesn't interface at all with Eve. It doesn't overlay the client, modify the client or interact with the client.
Actually, PLH CAN ovelay the client. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrPBLM8GF0s
The browser-baed version does not. But the installed version can be used to overlay.
I'm right behind you
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Emrys Alf
Seagull Fleet Alternate Allegiance
4
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Posted - 2016.02.25 03:41:30 -
[315] - Quote
The functionality of overlays with click through is part of the Windows, Macintosh and I Linux core and has been so for a while. It is what allows for the previews that one sees on the bottom of your screen and a bunch of other tricks.
IsBoxer is not the big issue Ontopreplica is as it is free, very easy to install and makes a lot of sense for the modern real-estate challenged dilemma of wanting to see more than what your working on. A YouTube video, your mail, TS, and a billion other useful things. It gives the user the freedom to control what they want to see on their desktop.
Ontopreplica for the ultimate eve online AFK experience
This is where the world is..
So to come out with a ruling that tries to stop the flow of time and forbid what is part of the system but really can't be limited/controlled I believe is the wrong direction.
Removing broadcasting was a rational move and set a simple president. One click/key press per action so it should not matter if someone had built their uber screen with buttons and displays of fuel, weapons and so on.
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Spcius Patrouette
The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult
9
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Posted - 2016.02.25 04:50:04 -
[316] - Quote
15 pages. still no response from CCP. cool. |
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
676
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Posted - 2016.02.25 04:58:52 -
[317] - Quote
Spcius Patrouette wrote:15 pages. still no response from CCP. cool.
Have you ever dealt with CCPs support?
This is Eve, dude. Have patience! They will respond eventually. Maybe. In a few weeks, or so. |
Spcius Patrouette
The Valiant Vanguard The Volition Cult
9
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Posted - 2016.02.25 05:05:53 -
[318] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Spcius Patrouette wrote:15 pages. still no response from CCP. cool. Have you ever dealt with CCPs support? This is Eve, dude. Have patience! They will respond eventually. Maybe. In a few weeks, or so. Oh no doubt, its just that they specifically said they would be responding is all. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6947
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Posted - 2016.02.25 05:10:52 -
[319] - Quote
Spcius Patrouette wrote:Neuntausend wrote:Spcius Patrouette wrote:15 pages. still no response from CCP. cool. Have you ever dealt with CCPs support? This is Eve, dude. Have patience! They will respond eventually. Maybe. In a few weeks, or so. Oh no doubt, its just that they specifically said they would be responding is all. I think most of these posts says they will respond, and then you see 300+ pages with nothing.
Not news.
Proxay wrote:Why are we all sitting here trying to reinterpret the bible when the author can just write a quick post going "Yes", "No", "Whatever, quit". Seriously CCP, where the hell are your community liaisons. Because they're not going to. What're people here going to do about it?
Post a lot, probably.
it quickly became clear that many of you were able to see the potential benefits and that youGÇÖre also ready for some big changes in EVE, especially when they might help bring in newer players
http://eveboard.com/ranks
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Agata Matahari
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
175
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Posted - 2016.02.25 05:22:14 -
[320] - Quote
Well, today ima go buy some hundred bills of ISK on ebay. After transaction I will send CCP time, place and name of seller ingame and can keep the ISK? Cool! |
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7264
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Posted - 2016.02.25 05:31:53 -
[321] - Quote
Proxay wrote:Chalithra Lathar wrote:Proxay wrote:See this? This is the kind of **** that shouldn't be possible in EVE, it allows one player to control 11 Algos' in PVP simultaneously, allowing for outcomes that shouldn't be possible. what is drone assist. He wasn't assisting drones. Yes he was. If he tried to do this without drone assist, using overlays and passthroughs and the like he would have been crippling himself since none of his other ships have guns and there's no faster way to get the drones going than drone assist.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Lt Shard
Team Pizza Good at this Game
59
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Posted - 2016.02.25 06:55:01 -
[322] - Quote
Oh good thing I have multiple monitors so I can triple box with extreme effectiveness
Sucks to be you, single monitor plebs!
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Masao Kurata
Perkone Caldari State
415
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Posted - 2016.02.25 07:03:07 -
[323] - Quote
Emrys Alf wrote:IsBoxer is not the big issue Ontopreplica is as it is free, very easy to install and makes a lot of sense for the modern real-estate challenged dilemma of wanting to see more than what your working on. A YouTube video, your mail, TS, and a billion other useful things. It gives the user the freedom to control what they want to see on their desktop.
OnTopReplica's click forwarding doesn't even work with EVE (at least it didn't when I tested it) and seriously OnTopReplica just offers exactly what you get with multiple monitors... except worse because it's obscuring other windows. |
Koenig Yazria
Adversity. Psychotic Tendencies.
12
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Posted - 2016.02.25 08:30:09 -
[324] - Quote
Neuntausend wrote:Spcius Patrouette wrote:15 pages. still no response from CCP. cool. Have you ever dealt with CCPs support? This is Eve, dude. Have patience! They will respond eventually. Maybe. In a few weeks, or so.
Totally something you want to do when you make a announcement out of the blue saying that you will ban people based on very vague criteria.
Like what the heck CCP, is this subject so smelly already that no one wants to touch it with a stick ?
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Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
454
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Posted - 2016.02.25 10:28:35 -
[325] - Quote
Cynuu wrote:Paying client for over 10 years for six accounts and definitely not happy with the overlay decision by CCP. CCP has cultivated the 3rd party application use for years, and it has been massively successful, and makes Eve one of the greatest games around. But, now with this EULA change and the vagueness of a fortune cookie language, I am in doubt if the style of play I have been paying the game in for years now can be continued. The arrogance regarding not caring what the players are doing and only the server side logs being evidence is troubling to say the least. Quote:and frankly we donGÇÖt care is never a statement that should be made by an organization that provides a service to paying customers. Lest you forget CCP, I am the paying customer. I keep the lights on. There are many more like me to be sure, but if I am alienated, so may others. This is a game, and should be enjoyable to play, if you make it anything other than that, it is at your own peril.
Do you honestly think the for profit Company gives a shite what you customers think ? Look at how they dealt with their customer representatives during 2015 and early 2016. Their Corporate suit attitude is Greed and Hubris, with the monetization of skill trading source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TeXatquVqAc
Regards, a Freelancer
ps: has ccp leeloo rewritten this piece to, like the csm white paper, both the wordings are vague
Eve online is :
A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online
D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification
http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg
http://bit.ly/1egr4mF
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Miner Hottie
Haywire.
183
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Posted - 2016.02.25 10:30:08 -
[326] - Quote
Koenig Yazria wrote:Neuntausend wrote:Spcius Patrouette wrote:15 pages. still no response from CCP. cool. Have you ever dealt with CCPs support? This is Eve, dude. Have patience! They will respond eventually. Maybe. In a few weeks, or so. Totally something you want to do when you make a announcement out of the blue saying that you will ban people based on very vague criteria. Like what the heck CCP, is this subject so smelly already that no one wants to touch it with a stick ?
It's nearly DT, so CCP should be waking up soon.
That doesn't guarantee a response, but it helps.
Also, CCP can we use a third party program and/or native functionality of some operating systems to tile and manage instances of Eve?
It's all about how hot my mining lasers get.
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Light Raider
HC-Nightshade
5
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Posted - 2016.02.25 10:57:07 -
[327] - Quote
Tristan Agion wrote:Quote:2. We may, in our discretion, tolerate the use of applications or other software that simply enhance player enjoyment in a way that maintains fair gameplay.
AS LONG AS itGÇÖs fair to everybody - neither you nor anybody else gets any unfair advantage GÇô we are fine with it. What's missing here is some kind of definition what might count as a fair advantage. Each and every third party tool I might use while playing EVE is of course aimed at giving me an advantage in the game. That's the very point of using said tool! For example, Tripwire keeps track of my wormhole connections and the signatures I encountered. It would be more tedious, slower, and much less useful to do this by other means (e.g., pen and paper, or perhaps the built-in notepad). So compared with someone who does not use Tripwire I clearly have an advantage when exploring wormholes. But is this an "unfair advantage"? Are you going to outlaw Tripwire? I really would like to know, since that's software I like to use in game. And if you say that Tripwire is fine, then what about say the "Dscan Locator" tool in Pirate's Little Helper? Is that kind of "computer assisted" dscan analysis also fine? And if you say that the "Dscan Locator" is indeed fine as well, then I really have no idea what you are talking about concerning "unfair advantage". Unless perhaps somebody has built an EVE PVP bot, or the like... Please clarify. Seriously, you need to give us a much better idea where the line is with 3rd party tools.
CCP, can you please clarify us on the point about the use of these tools included EveEye, plus voice assist programs like "Voice Attack"?
Thanks |
lost packet
Alpha Flight Almost Broken
92
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Posted - 2016.02.25 12:03:48 -
[328] - Quote
Figured my multiple EVE subscriptions would continue on until EVE died, with the lack of response from CCP regarding most of the questions in this thread, the chances are slim of continuing to part with real life time and money to continue EVE; I don'y actually play any other games either. I know I need to get out more :)
Scenerio 1: I have a desktop PC upstairs with i7 processor, 32GB RAM, triple 27" monitors; most of the isues are fine simply due to the fact I can run multiple EVE clients on each monitor, while still being able to have other tools visible such as Mumble, vIntel etc.
Scenerio 2: I have family/kids and obviously want to spend time with the kids (not too arsed about the misses, just kind of stuck with her). Sometimes she needs a break from the kids, or needs to go and get a shower, cook my dinner or something; requiring me to keep an eye on the kids, throw a stick or something for them to chase now and again, etc.
I have an i7 gaming laptop, which has a 17" screen. Set up the laptop downstairs, running ISBoxer for window management which enables the ability to have EVE client full screen, with 3 small reduced size clients underneath it, no dx nothing windows or other dodgy ****); this being a valid alternative for visible scouts/cynos.
Conclusion:
So, CCP, a response on whether Scenerio 2 is valid, or if I have to consider:
- Option A, throw the misses out, tell her to take her kids with her.
- Option B, reduce EVE subscriptions as it would just be wasting money she can use to go and get her hair done, buy a pair of jeans or something.
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Daugan
Scope Works Psychotic Tendencies.
19
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Posted - 2016.02.25 12:07:46 -
[329] - Quote
As it stands CCP Falcon said we would be hearing back from team security on the subject, in this thread. That was almost a day ago at this point. |
Koenig Yazria
Adversity. Psychotic Tendencies.
14
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Posted - 2016.02.25 12:37:24 -
[330] - Quote
lost packet wrote: Scenerio 1: I have a desktop PC upstairs with i7 processor, 32GB RAM, triple 27" monitors; most of the isues are fine simply due to the fact I can run multiple EVE clients on each monitor, while still being able to have other tools visible such as Mumble, vIntel etc.
Scenerio 2: I have family/kids and obviously want to spend time with the kids (not too arsed about the misses, just kind of stuck with her). Sometimes she needs a break from the kids, or needs to go and get a shower, cook my dinner or something; requiring me to keep an eye on the kids, throw a stick or something for them to chase now and again, etc.
I have an i7 gaming laptop, which has a 17" screen. Set up the laptop downstairs, running ISBoxer for window management which enables the ability to have EVE client full screen, with 3 small reduced size clients underneath it, no dx nothing windows or other dodgy ****); this being a valid alternative for visible scouts/cynos. ISBoxer also has some great functionality allowing you to reduce the FPS to say 10 for inactive windows.
I have something similar setup as your laptop on my PC, although for me it was mainly to take load of my gaming laptop whose GPU isnt the most reliable and has enabled me to free up some of the coveted desk space.
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