Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 16 17 .. 17 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Yarith
Unlimited Blade Works.
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 17:28:46 -
[391] - Quote
Helios Anduath wrote:Fifth Blade wrote:CCP Grimmi wrote: Overlays which contain a full, unchanged, EVE Client instance in a view only mode, no matter how large or small they are scaled, like it is done by EVE-O Preview as of today, are fine with us. These overlays do not allow any direct interaction with the EVE Client and you have to bring the respective EVE Client to the front/put the window focus on it, in order to interact with it.
What about applications which display only a portion of the eve client in preview mode, such as ontopreplica showing the local user list from a scout? This is a major use-case for a lot of people. Overlays which contain a full, unchanged, EVE Client instance in a view only mode, << those words answer your question. Chopped up windows = not OK. Full client = OK. This ties into the original blog where it said elements.
OTR can be used to show the entire window or just a part of it. How is CCP going to know if it's being used to show the full eve client, a portion of the eve client or for an entire different program ( like netflix, mpc or even youtube )? |
Fifth Blade
Jump Drive Appreciation Society
70
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 17:30:50 -
[392] - Quote
Helios Anduath wrote:
Overlays which contain a full, unchanged, EVE Client instance in a view only mode, << those words answer your question. Chopped up windows = not OK. Full client = OK. This ties into the original blog where it said elements.
You can use the same application to clone the entire window, then resize it among other things. Which would not break the EULA as described.
So does that mean you're banned if you break the rules? Or merely if you use a program which could potentially break said rules?
I'll simplify it for you:
- If it's the former they'll have difficulty distinguishing between actual abuse and normal use of the window management software.
- If it's the latter you simply cannot use any capable window management software without the risk of being randomly banned (since if it includes the potential to be used that way - you simply cannot risk using it).
The distinction is fairly important. |
Rawthorm
D.M.T inc Circle-Of-Two
104
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 17:42:37 -
[393] - Quote
Max Kolonko wrote:Praal wrote:Thank you for your answers! A few follow-ups
- One part of multiboxing window management is often removing the window border of a client (borderless window). Is this allowed as window management or banned as a modification of the client?
- Can you confirm if the non-gameplay uses of broadcasting specifically allowed In this dev post (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=387571) are still allowed now?
- Is your detection system able to differentiate between the availability / use of forbidden practices on the system (for other apps / games) and their use with the EVE client. For example:
- I have ISBoxer. I use it for window management only with EVE. I use it for window management and broadcasting with EverQuest (not at the same time). Are you able to recognize that my broadcasting config applies to a different game and the EVE client is not receiving / sending broadcasts?
- I have AutoHotkey and use it so speed-up certain work-related taks. If I have EVE running (but not being the focus window) and I use a hotkey which sends multiple keystrokes to a non-EVE app (say a telnet client), are you able to recognize that the 1-press-many-actions that happened did not involve the EVE client?
CCP does not minitor app You run, they just see keystrokes send to client faster than humanly possible, over and over and ban :)
Actually, the EULA states that CCP may monitor your system. That doesn't mean they do at the moment but they could be and you'd never know it.
|
Yarith
Unlimited Blade Works.
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 17:44:34 -
[394] - Quote
Helios Anduath wrote:Fifth Blade wrote:CCP Grimmi wrote: Overlays which contain a full, unchanged, EVE Client instance in a view only mode, no matter how large or small they are scaled, like it is done by EVE-O Preview as of today, are fine with us. These overlays do not allow any direct interaction with the EVE Client and you have to bring the respective EVE Client to the front/put the window focus on it, in order to interact with it.
What about applications which display only a portion of the eve client in preview mode, such as ontopreplica showing the local user list from a scout? This is a major use-case for a lot of people. Overlays which contain a full, unchanged, EVE Client instance in a view only mode, << those words answer your question. Chopped up windows = not OK. Full client = OK. This ties into the original blog where it said elements.
A) Here you can see an example of how OTR can be used to watch the "This is Eve" trailed on youtube: http://i.imgur.com/hNDGNDE.jpg
B) Here you can see an example of how OTR can be used to show the full, unchanged Eve Client: http://imgur.com/QQ6VPs3
C) Here's OTR being used to show only a small portion of the Eve Client: http://i.imgur.com/bDbFJru.jpg
A and B should be following the EULA. From what I understand, C isn't ( even tough I can't interact with the client in question via OTR, only see a portion of it. Like, if I try to de-cloak by clicking on the cloak icon on the OTR window, it does absolutely nothing).
Is the entire software banned because C is an option? I don't really use it for option C, but I do enjoy watching netflix while playing Eve.
|
Rawthorm
D.M.T inc Circle-Of-Two
105
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 17:50:16 -
[395] - Quote
Thanks for giving us some clarification. It shouldn't be a big job to change from Isboxer overlays, to just using it to tile clients in the smallest supported size. The end result will be slightly less optimal, but still quite usable. I am wondering however why the rather pedantic distinction? Was forcing us to go from a 1 x 8 client layout to a 2 x 4 client layout to avoid cutting up the displays really worth all this fuss? |
Praal
Bearded BattleBears I N F A M O U S
22
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 18:13:56 -
[396] - Quote
Based on the answers, it sounds like isboxer overlays are still OK if you overlay entire clients (not parts) and do not have clickthrough. So you could probably have a DXNothing window with 8 small tiles to monitor all of them. |
Som Boty
Super Mother Fan Club
30
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 18:45:52 -
[397] - Quote
Praal wrote:Based on the answers, it sounds like isboxer overlays are still OK if you overlay entire clients (not parts) and do not have clickthrough. So you could probably have a DXNothing window with 8 small tiles to monitor all of them.
yeah... until they decide that's bannable too. |
Annexe
I N E X T R E M I S Tactical Narcotics Team
25
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 19:08:45 -
[398] - Quote
Max Kolonko wrote:Annexe wrote:Do these new policies include key macros? ie: using 1 key to trigger multiple keys.
And how does CCP intend on enforcing these policies without being able to monitor the users actions first hand?
there are no new policies, only clarification. key macro (multiple action via single key) is a no-no since like forever As for the second question CCP will never tell You how they detection software works, but do read on anomalies detection a little.
Let me irritate, yes using macro to 'sequence' keys is a no no. Does that include using a single macro function to trigger a single key on-off?
Now what if i'm using a mouse that has keyboard keys linked to it. I am still pressing the same key, but without taking my hand off the mouse? Is that an unfair advantage?
In other words.. can I play eve with this? Logitech G600 mouse
Annexe
ITAI - VIP
"i will pop your wreck with faction loot"
|
Anhenka
Infinite Point Northern Army
1520
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 19:27:34 -
[399] - Quote
Annexe wrote:Now what if i'm using a mouse that has keyboard keys linked to it. I am still pressing the same key, but without taking my hand off the mouse? Is that an unfair advantage? In other words.. can I play eve with this? Logitech G600 mouse
This is fine. If you can map something ingame to a keyboard key it's fine to map it to a mouse key. Just can't map multiple things to activate with one mouse press that you couldn't map to a key using only the in game keybinding tools.
I love using G8/G9 as Increase/Decrease probe range and middle mouse button to activate scan for example, and it's fine since all I did was open up the ingame mapping and set it to the mouse key.
Edit: G8/G9 on my 602, dunno where 8/9 is on that clusterfuck of a mouse. |
Brutus Vicktor
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 19:46:03 -
[400] - Quote
What about the tool that some Hi Sec gankers use to get the value of the cargohold on the fly after they got them scaned?
Is that a fair advantage to them against the haulers? |
|
Tiberian Deci
Unholy Knights of Cthulhu Test Alliance Please Ignore
166
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 19:57:40 -
[401] - Quote
Som Boty wrote:Koenig Yazria wrote:Another day without dearly needed clarifications.
Well done. When this thread started I had 16 accounts subbed. 48 hours later and I'm down to 8. Keep it up CCP!
If you can only have fun in this MMO by playing with yourself 16 times over its probably better that you unsub your extra accounts |
Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
878
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 19:59:36 -
[402] - Quote
Brutus Vicktor wrote:What about the tool that some Hi Sec gankers use to get the value of the cargohold on the fly after they got them scaned?
Is that a fair advantage to them against the haulers?
If you mean Evepraisel then that is ok. |
Tiberian Deci
Unholy Knights of Cthulhu Test Alliance Please Ignore
166
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 20:00:08 -
[403] - Quote
Brutus Vicktor wrote:What about the tool that some Hi Sec gankers use to get the value of the cargohold on the fly after they got them scaned?
Is that a fair advantage to them against the haulers?
You mean evepraisal where you have to manually scan the freighter, then manually copy paste everything into a window and then manually hit a button? Don't be dense you little whiny baby. |
Brutus Vicktor
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 20:25:43 -
[404] - Quote
Tiberian Deci wrote:Brutus Vicktor wrote:What about the tool that some Hi Sec gankers use to get the value of the cargohold on the fly after they got them scaned?
Is that a fair advantage to them against the haulers? You mean evepraisal where you have to manually scan the freighter, then manually copy paste everything into a window and then manually hit a button? Don't be dense you little whiny baby.
No, I mean the use of evepraisal with a flavour
Pic proof |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33423
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 20:49:56 -
[405] - Quote
Rawthorm wrote: Actually, the EULA states that CCP may monitor your system. That doesn't mean they do at the moment but they could be and you'd never know it.
Maybe Sreegs is back and the client will start making blind calls for names of known cheat .EXEs
Help, I can't download EVE
President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub
PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
|
Som Boty
Super Mother Fan Club
31
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 21:11:38 -
[406] - Quote
Tiberian Deci wrote:
If you can only have fun in this MMO by playing with yourself 16 times over its probably better that you unsub your extra accounts bro
or, maybe you should try playing my way before you give advice? I don't clown the way you play.
|
Praal
Bearded BattleBears I N F A M O U S
22
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 21:48:25 -
[407] - Quote
Brutus Vicktor wrote:No, I mean the use of evepraisal with a flavour Pic proof
Does that extract data from the client (ie. hook the client and read data from it)? Or does it react to the windows clipboard containing something that looks like an EVE copy paste?
The first would be bannable, the second is esentially PLH for loot so allowed. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6950
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 22:49:33 -
[408] - Quote
Som Boty wrote:Tiberian Deci wrote: If you can only have fun in this MMO by playing with yourself 16 times over its probably better that you unsub your extra accounts bro
or, maybe you should try playing my way before you give advice? I don't clown the way you play. Maybe you should try clowning the way they play
it quickly became clear that many of you were able to see the potential benefits and that youGÇÖre also ready for some big changes in EVE, especially when they might help bring in newer players
http://eveboard.com/ranks
|
Matt Faithbringer
Kill'em all. Let Bob sort'em out.
29
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 23:03:08 -
[409] - Quote
CCP Grimmi wrote:... We do not necessarily need to differentiate between different systems. If the logs show activity that should not be possible through normal means, we will take action. ...
Does this mean that when/if windows 10 will allow us to click into small miniatures showed while alt+tab and win10 will sends those click to the apps it will become legal to use scaled-down eve client for controlling the game?
Just want to make sure that whatever feature will windows bring I'm ok to use it.
|
Kalo Askold
Sanguis Inceptum Starkmanir Unification
53
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 23:07:21 -
[410] - Quote
"All that being said, we wish you a wonderful day in New Eden!
Your friendly neighborhood Security Folks"
We sacrificed privacy for security, and now the eve server is down. Looks like Ben. Franklin was right; we get neither. |
|
Memphis Baas
1219
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 23:11:31 -
[411] - Quote
Praal wrote:Thank you for your answers! A few follow-ups:
1. One part of multiboxing window management is often removing the window border of a client (borderless window). Is this allowed as window management or banned as a modification of the client?
3. Is your detection system able to differentiate between the availability / use of forbidden practices on the system (for other apps / games) and their use with the EVE client.
1. In my opinion, the client has a borderless window mode, so I don't see why they would consider a borderless window management preview as "modification of the client." IMO it should be ok.
3. CCP will never give details about their detection systems. I've had a G15 keyboard with single-key keyboard remaps programmed for EVE, and multi-key scripts for X3AP, for a couple years now, and I think they can tell the difference, but of course this will never be confirmed or denied by CCP because they don't want to give away security secrets.
|
Digiblast
The Collective Collective Company
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 23:38:16 -
[412] - Quote
Will we be able to run 4 diffrent clients in fixed window mode from 4 diffrent corners of the screen so it will fitt perfectly? |
Alundil
Isogen 5
1092
|
Posted - 2016.02.27 03:54:10 -
[413] - Quote
EvilweaselFinance wrote:I don't have any questions but I do really appreciate the clarity in that mega-response to questions. Not empty quoting. Thank you.
I'm right behind you
|
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
688
|
Posted - 2016.02.27 08:42:18 -
[414] - Quote
Ok. That's a response at least.
CCP Grimmi wrote:We do not necessarily need to differentiate between different systems. If the logs show activity that should not be possible through normal means, we will take action.
Please define "normal means". Because, that's kind of what the question is about. If we use the client as shipped, and we use our operating system as shipped to create an overlay - is that "normal" or is it not?
And while you are at it, please define "ordinary Game play" and "transfer of "content appearing within the Game environment" means.
Because pretty much everything in the EULA and your explanations hinges on terms like that. |
Mnemosyne Ab aeterno
EVE University Ivy League
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.27 11:17:12 -
[415] - Quote
So dev dudes,
You say in a mail. Using Pirates little helper is ok. But in the ban able offence is any program or application that gives an unfair advantage to another player.
So are you going to let other players know about every other mod that is out there?
How are new players going to know the right tools or the wrong tools to use?
For me knowing a player and who he /she is before they have chance to de-cloak is unfair... so is this now double standards? |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6950
|
Posted - 2016.02.27 14:38:34 -
[416] - Quote
Mnemosyne Ab aeterno wrote:So dev dudes,
You say in a mail. Using Pirates little helper is ok. But in the ban able offence is any program or application that gives an unfair advantage to another player.
So are you going to let other players know about every other mod that is out there?
How are new players going to know the right tools or the wrong tools to use?
For me knowing a player and who he /she is before they have chance to de-cloak is unfair... so is this now double standards? Maybe after you own someone (or warp off just before they light their cyno) you should put a link to PLH in local just to be sure they can also take advantage of it.
CCP Grimmi: With all players on a single server and in direct competition with each other even your trade and industry activities are PvP.
|
Soltys
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
95
|
Posted - 2016.02.27 15:13:58 -
[417] - Quote
CCP Grimmi wrote:Also, a lot of people have asked for lists of allowed applications/tools.
We cannot sanction 3rd party programs that we do not create or have any control over. Period.
Of course you can. You already did it with ISBoxer and you can do it with every other tool that is being asked about. Actually this seems to be part of the job, so why even wait ? Just start doing it.
The crux is that you're too lazy to do it and prefer that vague bullshit called "EULA" that can be bent and applied to anything at any time as you see fit.
Quote:We may tolerate the use of applications or tools that enhance your enjoyment of the game. This is done at our discretion and only as long as no unfair advantages are gained by you or others by the use of said applications or tools.
You don't "tolerate". You encourage. The game is nearly unplayable without 3rd party tools either way (masochists aside).
Nearly everything provided by those tools is about the "unfair advantage", becuase people not using those tools remain in blind and without the advantage provided by said tools. Starting with trivial stuff like min-maxed ship fits or inter-region market data availabe in one place that the game was deliberately designed not to provide.
So please stop with this gigantic hypocrisy. You can start with precisely defining what is and isn't that mysterious "unfair advantage".
Quote:Thank you for your attention and fly safe!
I'm sure you realise how that sentence makes you look like after that devblog.
Jita Flipping Inc.: Solmp / Kovl
|
Memphis Baas
1228
|
Posted - 2016.02.27 16:18:04 -
[418] - Quote
I agree.
CCP, you can certainly implement a system where 3rd-party devs can submit source code and you can certify that particular version as ok to use; it just requires work and you don't want to do it. You think it's easier to mass ban once things get too far, and that's what you've threatened us with; you don't seem to realize that these threats **** off your community and your 3rd-party devs, ultimately resulting in reduced subs.
And also, you've shown no sign of any sort of effort to add some of the useful 3rd-party functionality to the game. As I repeated a couple times already, if we're not allowed to improve upon your game UI, then you have to do it. I'm not gonna say you're lazy, cause you're not, but you've assumed a stance on this whole issue that is quite unprofessional. As evidenced by the derision we have when comparing EVE Central, EFT, PLH, Evernus, and so on (the list is long) vs. the limits the client still imposes on information.
You're being taken to school by the 3rd party devs.
The whole game is a sandbox: you enjoy players generating content (as do we), and yet you clearly have control over everything in-game. Let us generate content for the UI interface while you retain the same level of control: set up an UI add-ons framework that lets you retain full control and lets us improve the UI, and you can police us that much more closely because the addons hook into the client, rather than existing as 3rd party software installed on our private drives that frankly you have no business searching.
That said, I'm gonna drop the topic; I'm repeating myself and it's pointless to continue doing so. |
Neuntausend
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
688
|
Posted - 2016.02.27 19:22:36 -
[419] - Quote
On a different note - while the effort taken to clear up the obscure phrasing in the EULA in the forums is certainly appreciated, I would like to point out that most players will certainly not dig through a 20 page thread to figure out what the EULA means.
I would take a bet and say that most players have not even read the EULA, but those who did should be able to tell what they may or may not do without digging up old dev posts. |
Alexis Nightwish
427
|
Posted - 2016.02.27 20:59:16 -
[420] - Quote
Question:
If a player with a clean account (no previous bans or whatever) comes forward to use the amnesty program, will his account be flagged so that he cannot trade characters, even though he won't receive a ban?
CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge
EVE Online's "I win!" Button
Fixing bombs, not the bombers
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 [14] 15 16 17 .. 17 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |