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Teium Purvanen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 12:45:36 -
[1] - Quote
Firstly, please accept my apologies for asking this question. I always hated "game dying" threads on other forums on past MMOs and they do nothing but stir up stories.
The reason I am unfortunately bring up the question is, I've seen a few posts on the forums and whilst reading up about the game in various places (I like to research a game before I play) that Eve is in decline and, for lack of a better word, "dying" (cringe).
I want to invest a lot of time and subscription money into Eve as I personally think it will fill the void I have for a good open world game.
They neh sayers are sadly making me question whether it is worth continuing.
Again, i'm truly sorry for this kind of post, but I would be grateful if someone could let me know what things are really like.
Appreciate your time :)
Teium
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
5895
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 12:49:53 -
[2] - Quote
http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility
While we're down from January last year for concurrent connections, the current trend is upwards.
Woo! CSM X!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
14312
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 12:53:31 -
[3] - Quote
http://i.imgur.com/LtCk4fY.jpg
She's fine.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Azda Ja
Meticulously Indifferent
4915
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 13:03:42 -
[4] - Quote
Not all changes to EVE are great sure, but to put it in perspective, EVE has been dying for what, 13 years now? Despite a hole heap of changes since birth. The new skill injectors are shaking things up in any case, many people are very happy about them, others extremely unhappy about it, some longtime posters have even deleted their characters over it (though I'd wager this is an extreme minority). The new Citadels are coming in a couple months, which is something people have been looking forward to for a very very long time (POS mechanics are dumb as ****). Capitals are also getting a massive rework to go along with citadels which should be interesting for a lot of vets as well.
From what I understand CCP seems to be doing okay financially, and EVE is their only real moneymaker so they have one hell of an incentive to keep it alive and kicking for a good while longer.
I think it very unlikely that EVE will just roll over and croak in the near future. I'm biased, but I say join up and enjoy.
Grrr.
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Teium Purvanen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 13:14:31 -
[5] - Quote
Thanks Steve, Ralph & Azda for your replies :)
Azda Ja wrote: but I say join up and enjoy.
Well I'm subbed at the moment, but I really wanted to pay a year in advance. I guess I was just believing everything that was being posted on the internet.......I feel ashamed lol
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Teium Purvanen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 13:16:55 -
[6] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:http://i.imgur.com/LtCk4fY.jpg
She's fine.
What was so bad that created that huge spike in 2010?
And Steve......What is a CSM (excuse my ignorance) |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
14315
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 13:24:22 -
[7] - Quote
incarna , before my time.
ccp nearly actually killed the game
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Memphis Baas
1191
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 14:00:19 -
[8] - Quote
CSM is the Council of Stellar Management; players go through elections (all active accounts vote) and form a Council which then gets special communication channels with CCP devs, and also visits to Reikjavik to discuss game development. We get a way to send our comments and wishes to CCP directly, they get some focused player feedback, and publicity.
The Incarna expansion was a huge disappointment and rage because of a number of reasons:
- CCP was only doing 2 major patches per year back then, rather than the monthly patches they have now.
- They chose to implement first person avatars, but instead of any functionality or gameplay they gave us 1 room that we couldn't exit and no functionality to the avatars other than walking around the room. And to do this, they had to increase the minimum system requirements. Behind the scenes, their HQ artists and devs took months to implement the 1 room, and then the graphics artists in their satellite office came in and added the other 3 races' rooms in a few hours, showing them up. The satellite office was later closed.
- There was also a leaked internal letter talking about their plans to introduce microtransactions and charge for everything; since it was an internal memo, it had unfiltered thoughts about charging us and revealed the company's greed (all businesses function on greed, but you don't let the customer see it).
- They released the NEX store, with overpriced clothing items ($1500 for a monocle on your avatar). |
Forum Toon
State War Academy Caldari State
40
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 14:13:33 -
[9] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote: ($1500 for a monocle on your avatar).
still cheaper then star citizen :)
_______________________________________________
Game runs for 13 years, getting upgraded monthly. we had database upgrade today. if there is one game I'm content to spend money on and be quiet without any fear of it shutting down it's eve.
And injectors \ extractors ownz. |
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
768
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 14:29:29 -
[10] - Quote
Eve is still trending up, but the old metric isn't as useful anymore. CCP used to brag about accounts and we used to watch active accounts on tranquility march up and up. But many accounts were really not extra players but alt accounts.
Then CCP introduced multi-account skilling. Since before you HAD to have multiple accounts if you wanted to train multiple characters, this reduced the need for many extra accounts. At that point active accounts began to decline. I've seen no indication that CCP has been suffering declining profits, and plex was well over double what it was before multi-account skilling came into effect.
This last major release has introduced skill extraction/injection. I expect another decline in active accounts, but people now have incentive to spend hundreds of dollars more on their accounts than ever before. So while there might be another decline in accounts as players start to use their alts as SP farms, EVE looks to have just become significantly more profitable per account.
So no, I really don't see eve dying. But I do forsee active accounts declining further, unless people decide that making new accounts for SP farms is a better option. So many characters are being cannibalized right now for SP it's not even funny.
My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
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Teium Purvanen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 14:50:26 -
[11] - Quote
Ok thanks guys,
Again this isn't an OMG EVE IS DYING thread.
Just wanted........i suppose reassurance......that I can invest long term into New Eden :)
Many thanks |
Ocean Ormand
Bagel and Lox
5
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 15:06:06 -
[12] - Quote
Teium Purvanen wrote:Firstly, please accept my apologies for asking this question. I always hated "game dying" threads on other forums on past MMOs and they do nothing but stir up stories.
The reason I am unfortunately bring up the question is, I've seen a few posts on the forums and whilst reading up about the game in various places (I like to research a game before I play) that Eve is in decline and, for lack of a better word, "dying" (cringe).
I want to invest a lot of time and subscription money into Eve as I personally think it will fill the void I have for a good open world game.
They neh sayers are sadly making me question whether it is worth continuing.
Again, i'm truly sorry for this kind of post, but I would be grateful if someone could let me know what things are really like.
Appreciate your time :)
Teium
2014 and 2015 were not good years for ccp with users seeming to be bleeding from the game. But Eve seems to have hit its floor. CCP appears to have finally got a handle on things with user numbers seeming to stabilize and actually trend upward. OFC CCP has a lot of up coming opportunities to screw things up. For instance, there appears to be some thought to making that horrible new camera mandatory. With CCP I just always assume the worst and when things turn out a little bit better then my expectations (e.g. i grew used to the new pac man icons), i'm happy.
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Pix Severus
Empty You
3201
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 15:07:26 -
[13] - Quote
Welcome to EVE!
My lord.
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Raz Eullon
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 15:54:57 -
[14] - Quote
Well I've got most of my accounts paid for the next two years or longer. I do not think the game is going anywere. |
Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
287
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 17:31:42 -
[15] - Quote
I can't speak for others but I'm currently bored and thinking of quitting. Game has always seemed to trend up since I started playing though so I don't think there's ever a bad time to start.
@lunettelulu7
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1185
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 17:41:41 -
[16] - Quote
I never understood these kinds of posts. A game is either fun to play or it is not. I fail to see what other people are doing has to do with if the game is fun or not. I understand that it is an MMO and you need other players but as long as there are at least over a certain minimum I fail to see how that matters.
A couple things that you should know about Eve:
Eve is one of the oldest MMOs. I came out about 6 months before WoW did.
Eve's numbers were on a slow steady climb for years and years until they flubbed the walking in stations patch a few years back. However since that time the game has been coming back as far as I know.
Eve has never been a huge game like WoW with 18 million subs. However with everyone playing in the same universe you have far more people to interact with than any other game's individual "realms" or servers or whatever you want to call them.
As a personal note on my real world experiences as an Eve player:
When people that I meet in the real world find out that I play Eve I often get reactions from people that have heard about or read about the game. What they have heard and read are always way far off from what the game really plays like. Usually they tell me things about the game that are the exact opposite of what the game is really like.
About Eve in general:
Eve is very very different from other MMOs. You can not apply anything that you have experienced from other MMOs to Eve. I would be willing to go into more depth on this if you like but I'm not going to write a text wall on the topic unless requested.
However what is more important is that to understand this game you need to play it. If you play the game and give it an honest try and don't like it what have you lost? I would say that you've not really "lost" anything.
If you would like to try the game mail me either in game or through Eve gate ( which is the same mail system ). I would be willing to give you a refer a friend code. Then you would get a 21 day trial. If you add one month I would get a PLEX that I would be willing to give to you in game so that would be another month. So basically for $15 you'd get 81 days of game time.
Also if you would like to talk about the game and how it is and such either post questions in this thread or again Eve mail me and we can figure out a way to get a conversation going. I'll gladly offer you any advice I have in what ever medium we can work out, mail, text, voice or whatever. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
14321
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 17:46:41 -
[17] - Quote
Lulu Lunette wrote:I can't speak for others but I'm currently bored and thinking of quitting. Game has always seemed to trend up since I started playing though so I don't think there's ever a bad time to start. can i have your stuff ?
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Lulu Lunette
Savage Moon Society
287
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 17:52:57 -
[18] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Lulu Lunette wrote:I can't speak for others but I'm currently bored and thinking of quitting. Game has always seemed to trend up since I started playing though so I don't think there's ever a bad time to start. can i have your stuff ?
Good one!
@lunettelulu7
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Memphis Baas
1193
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 18:27:49 -
[19] - Quote
Lulu Lunette wrote:Good one! I just started using station containers a lot more than before; they are awesome!!! Can I borrow your stuff to put into storage and test my warehousing skills, and I'll give it back to you when you come back?
( a bit more [effort] )
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
5772
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 18:34:42 -
[20] - Quote
EVE Death-o-Meter
EVE has been dying since launch in 2003. |
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Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
200
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 19:56:19 -
[21] - Quote
It certainly has more players than back when I was playing a lot in 2004-5 and 2007. Back in those days, 18,000 logged on was a big Saturday night. Nowadays, it often gets over 30,000 logged on. Of course, there are more bots, more double accounts and the system does not log you off as fast as it used to, so you have to take that metric with a grain of salt.
The players are a lot more hard core and experienced than they used to be in the old days. So, if you are a newb, you are basically thrown in with the wolves. In the old days it was the reverse, most players were more casual and newbish and the old gray wolves were more on the sidelines.
Right now, things are pretty stable, except for the injector thing which is scaring people.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
14324
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 20:14:41 -
[22] - Quote
Droidster wrote: except for the injector thing which is scaring people.
yeah iv seen people pitching fits over it and biomassing but the only real net negative ive noticed is that character age is now meaningless as a gauge of your opponent. that aside nothing has changed aside from some people no longer being around over principal.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
39
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 20:22:29 -
[23] - Quote
There's no reason for it to 'die' and people that are saying it is are probably wishing it would because CCP is doing something to the game that they didn't like.
It's really a one of a kind game that you can't find elsewhere. I haven't seen so many die-hard fans around something like this since I was going to colleges and peoples homes to watch Anime about 3 decades ago. Then it became popular and now it's mainstream.
I am not saying EVE will ever make that transition, it has a lot of uphill battles it has to win before it can become a truly mainstream, heavy subscriber, MMO. It's current player base is one of those challenges. It's a very reactionary crowd and susceptible to a lot of in-fighting. I guess that's the nature of die-hard fans.
I tend to be a peacekeeper on most forums, however, I'm also not afraid to call it like I see it. I like EVE, but honestly, some of the "doom and gloom"-ers here on this forum are some of the worst of the breed I've seen. If the game has survived that kind of hand-wringing for 13 years then it'll be here for a lot longer...
I'm with those that say that you need to play for you, not for what other people say. The game is as much fun as you make of it, no matter what people say here on the forums... that includes me. Ignore me and just go have fun! |
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
770
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 20:29:04 -
[24] - Quote
ergherhdfgh wrote:I never understood these kinds of posts. A game is either fun to play or it is not. I fail to see what other people are doing has to do with if the game is fun or not. I understand that it is an MMO and you need other players but as long as there are at least over a certain minimum I fail to see how that matters.
It's actually a legitimate question coming from a newbie. There have been many MMOs that came out and then died. Players that spent months or years developing a community find themselves cast adrift and nothing to show for that time invested.
It is actually always the main selling point I make about EvE. Unlike all these other games, Eve will be here 10 years from now, so it's ok to invest yourself in the game.
As long as CCP stays privately owned we can rely on EvE being CCP's baby. Now if CCP went publicly owned, then shareholders will appoint a new CEO with the mandate to whatever they have to to get more subscribers like "WoW."
My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
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J'Poll
Perkone Caldari State
6350
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 20:39:34 -
[25] - Quote
EVE, the dying game since 2003.
P.s. dont believe 99% of what you read on the forums, SPECIALLY in GD
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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J'Poll
Perkone Caldari State
6350
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 20:40:23 -
[26] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:incarna , before my time.
ccp nearly actually killed the game
Pff, kids these days
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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J'Poll
Perkone Caldari State
6350
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 20:42:44 -
[27] - Quote
Ocean Ormand wrote:Teium Purvanen wrote:Firstly, please accept my apologies for asking this question. I always hated "game dying" threads on other forums on past MMOs and they do nothing but stir up stories.
The reason I am unfortunately bring up the question is, I've seen a few posts on the forums and whilst reading up about the game in various places (I like to research a game before I play) that Eve is in decline and, for lack of a better word, "dying" (cringe).
I want to invest a lot of time and subscription money into Eve as I personally think it will fill the void I have for a good open world game.
They neh sayers are sadly making me question whether it is worth continuing.
Again, i'm truly sorry for this kind of post, but I would be grateful if someone could let me know what things are really like.
Appreciate your time :)
Teium
2014 and 2015 were not good years for ccp with users seeming to be bleeding from the game. But Eve seems to have hit its floor. CCP appears to have finally got a handle on things with user numbers seeming to stabilize and actually trend upward. OFC CCP has a lot of up coming opportunities to screw things up. For instance, there appears to be some thought to making that horrible new camera mandatory. With CCP I just always assume the worst and when things turn out a little bit better then my expectations (e.g. i grew used to the new pac man icons), i'm happy.
Simple reason, less alt accounts due to multiple training queues.
I dropped a good bunch of accounts cause they were no longer needed to train the same amouny of characters
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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J'Poll
Perkone Caldari State
6350
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 20:43:48 -
[28] - Quote
Lulu Lunette wrote:I can't speak for others but I'm currently bored and thinking of quitting. Game has always seemed to trend up since I started playing though so I don't think there's ever a bad time to start.
If you are bored, it is your own fault. Not the game's fault cause it is a sandbox
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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Azda Ja
Meticulously Indifferent
4919
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 20:47:41 -
[29] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Lulu Lunette wrote:I can't speak for others but I'm currently bored and thinking of quitting. Game has always seemed to trend up since I started playing though so I don't think there's ever a bad time to start. can i have your stuff ? Sorry Rlaph, Lulu's stuff is mine as stipulated in Article X Section 7 of the Grand Vherokhior Astro Shaman's Stuff Distribution and Trade Committee. We are currently taking suggestions for a better name. There's rare hypoallergenic Fedos in it for the best entry.
Grrr.
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J'Poll
Perkone Caldari State
6352
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 20:49:59 -
[30] - Quote
Azda Ja wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Lulu Lunette wrote:I can't speak for others but I'm currently bored and thinking of quitting. Game has always seemed to trend up since I started playing though so I don't think there's ever a bad time to start. can i have your stuff ? Sorry Rlaph, Lulu's stuff is mine as stipulated in Article X Section 7 of the Grand Vherokhior Astro Shaman's Stuff Distribution and Trade Committee. We are currently taking suggestions for a better name. There's rare hypoallergenic Fedos in it for the best entry.
How about:
The Committee for Unsuccesful at Everything Trustfund and Assets Aquisition
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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Thermal Damage
The Scope Gallente Federation
156
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Posted - 2016.02.24 20:55:02 -
[31] - Quote
J'Poll wrote:Lulu Lunette wrote:I can't speak for others but I'm currently bored and thinking of quitting. Game has always seemed to trend up since I started playing though so I don't think there's ever a bad time to start. If you are bored, it is your own fault. Not the game's fault cause it is a sandbox
kek
******.
I was found guilty of Nitshe by the CoCaP
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gfldex
741
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 20:56:13 -
[32] - Quote
When I started to play the game there where 10k _accounts_ online at prime time. The game was working just fine. Now it's 30k.
Some years ago CCP started to actively go after botters. Their server side behaviour detection seams to work well. That killed plenty of accounts ofc. Also there is a proper economic crisis in most of Europe with (real) youth unemployment crossing 50% in most countries. Mix that with Plex prices going from 350M a pop to 1.2B and you will see plenty of alts vanish. We, the players, simply can't tell how many players are actually playing the game unless CCP tells us the account numbers again and provides a breakdown of accounts/player over the years. The only indication of activity would be PvP losses, that are published at Fanfest these days. We used to see them quarterly, you will have to wait until April to see the change relative to last year (given they publish them).
All those words mean, that you can't tell the state of EVE because alts are so useful and common. The best indication is flying around in space and looking for targets. And there CCP really *beep*ed up. When I went into PvP (15 days into the game) there was always somebody to fight. If you camped a pipe the enemy had to react. Nowadays you have to pipe bomb a jump bridge or bet on incompetent JF pilots and you still wont get a reaction from your enemy. You have to shoot their moon goo spring to force their hand. Lowsec is a different matter. FW really did good to the game. If you are into shooting frigates that is.
The area of the game that should see the most action is the most stagnant because moon goo provides the incentive and jump drives supported by timer based warfare the means for afk empires to exist. CCP has tried to address jump drives and jump bridges with slight nerfs, with no results. If they finally grow the balls to touch the afk empires where it hurts, 0.0 might turn back into what it used to be. A place where you shoot lots of players and very few structures. It would also mean that pilots that are active all the time become of value to territory holding entities (or better their leadership) what may result in both the number of accounts and actual activity in space to go up. Orbiting a POS for 5 hours waiting for a timer to tick down does not count as activity and had (in my eyes at least) the effect to drive plenty of pilots out of 0.0 or even the game.
All that can be fixed and if I understood the proposed citadel mining feature correctly, it will fix moon goo and therefore drive afk alliances out of 0.0 . EVE got the potential for another 10 years of loyal customers for CCP games. Besides, where would you go? Another World of Tanks with spaceships?
If you take all the sand out of the box, only the cat poo will remain.
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Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
770
|
Posted - 2016.02.24 20:57:17 -
[33] - Quote
Azda Ja wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Lulu Lunette wrote:I can't speak for others but I'm currently bored and thinking of quitting. Game has always seemed to trend up since I started playing though so I don't think there's ever a bad time to start. can i have your stuff ? Sorry Rlaph, Lulu's stuff is mine as stipulated in Article X Section 7 of the Grand Vherokhior Astro Shaman's Stuff Distribution and Trade Committee. We are currently taking suggestions for a better name. There's rare hypoallergenic Fedos in it for the best entry.
Dammit! I"m always last to know.
My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
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Cara Forelli
Meticulously Indifferent
1640
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 01:18:38 -
[34] - Quote
Hey Tiff. EVE isn't dying. Don't worry your little head(s) about it.
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
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Teium Purvanen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 11:23:37 -
[35] - Quote
Thank you all for taking the time out to post :)
I'll see you all ingame...........unless you want to kill me, then I hope we never meet :D |
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
780
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 16:51:59 -
[36] - Quote
Nonsense. If Ralf, Cara, Sol, Shah, J'Poll, or any other of the regulars here gave me some "SURPRISE PVP!" I'd totally laugh and convo them. Although if the surprise happened when I'm moving 20% of my net worth across the cluster, I might also be a bit put out.
My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
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J'Poll
Perkone Caldari State
6355
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 19:20:49 -
[37] - Quote
Iria Ahrens wrote:Nonsense. If Ralf, Cara, Sol, Shah, J'Poll, or any other of the regulars here gave me some "SURPRISE PVP!" I'd totally laugh and convo them. Although if the surprise happened when I'm moving 20% of my net worth across the cluster, I might also be a bit put out.
No way.
It means I have to undock.
Space is scary out there.
Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded
Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1189
|
Posted - 2016.02.25 23:54:47 -
[38] - Quote
Teium Purvanen wrote:
What was so bad that created that huge spike in 2010?
The following is strictly my view on Incarna but just to give you some perspective I was very active at that time but lived in high sec mostly.
At that time CCP was actively producing 3 games and only one of them ( Eve ) had any money coming in. Dust 514 and World of Darkness were the other two and both were still in early development.
CCP decided that they were going to do the whole walking in stations thing. It was fairly well known by those that stay current on the detail that there was a lot of behind the scenes work that went into WiS including developing a brand new lighting engine. So it was no surprise that it was only one room as they had to get the mechanics of making it work out of the way first before they could develop engaging gameplay around it.
In my opinion where they went wrong was they promised the players that WiS would not be mandatory. Most of us internet spaceship pilots wanted nothing to do with it but were ok with it as long as we could opt out but ideally we wanted an opt in situation. Upon release day you were forced into your captain's quarters and ship spinning was gone. A lot of people were pissed about being lied to on that and the lack of any ability to avoid it. As you can see the rage got so bad they had to go back and give us our hangars back.
The whole incident lead to CCP having to recommit to it's core playerbase and I think in general was good for the game.
I personally just do not like micro transactions and have always only played subscription games to avoid them. In 2010 CCP was one of the last games to fall down that path. I would much rather pay for my game by the month and not have people trying to sell me virtual goods.
There are a lot more details here that I am skipping but that is the quick synopsis. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1189
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 00:04:09 -
[39] - Quote
Iria Ahrens wrote: It's actually a legitimate question coming from a newbie. There have been many MMOs that came out and then died. Players that spent months or years developing a community find themselves cast adrift and nothing to show for that time invested.
Except years of months having fun playing a game. I've tried betas that flopped and other various situations where I played a game for a bit and then did not and I don't regret any of them. I had fun playing them while I did. When Eve stops being fun I'l find another game to play as well.
Honestly I think that a game trying and failing is far better than what happened to WoW which is the game succeeded and became a victim of it's own success.
Iria Ahrens wrote: As long as CCP stays privately owned we can rely on EvE being CCP's baby. Now if CCP went publicly owned, then shareholders will appoint a new CEO with the mandate to whatever they have to to get more subscribers like "WoW."
I agree with you on this one. Venture capital and shareholders are the destroyers of anything good. Especially entertainment. If you want to make a good game you have to focus on making a good game. If you allow people who know nothing about gaming make the decisions with only profit on the mind ( which is what happens with investors ) then failure is certain.
The only thing investors know how to do is bleed something dry. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
5778
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 00:15:44 -
[40] - Quote
Teium Purvanen wrote:What was so bad that created that huge spike in 2010? I recommend watching A Tale of Internet Spaceships |
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Kantar Vilorious
Toxic Turrets Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 03:46:30 -
[41] - Quote
Eve Online is in a decline and has been for years. Why do you think they launched the new recruitment promo to get new players. Griefers and toxics players push players from any game. The only hope for Eve Online is to go free to play and to revamp training system. Today's gamers do not have time to wait days and weeks to fly something only to have it destroyed in seconds. They will unsub and uninstall Eve like they have been in droves. |
Memphis Baas
1209
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Posted - 2016.02.26 03:53:21 -
[42] - Quote
So your point is that EVE is losing some subscriptions, and the fix to this is to stop charging subscriptions at all (zero income), and switch to free-to-play, because free-to-players are never griefers and toxics, they're just the most wonderful, mature people ever. |
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
784
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 05:15:52 -
[43] - Quote
Blade and Soul recently came out. I had been anticipating that game for years. And I can't believe how toxic the community is. Even GD trolling is nothing compared to the vitriol that happens on the B&S forums.
I think a lot of newbies don't realize that all the trolling in GD is actually in good natured fun. I wish I could say the same for B&S forums.
My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
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Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
50
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Posted - 2016.02.26 17:40:32 -
[44] - Quote
Kantar Vilorious wrote:Eve Online is in a decline and has been for years. Why do you think they launched the new recruitment promo to get new players. Griefers and toxics players push players from any game. The only hope for Eve Online is to go free to play and to revamp training system. Today's gamers do not have time to wait days and weeks to fly something only to have it destroyed in seconds. They will unsub and uninstall Eve like they have been in droves.
The player stats don't seem to support this conclusion. I also think that you may not be taking into consideration the idea that EVE's player base is probably a little older than WoW's or other MMO's. Even WoW is only free to play for the first 'easy' levels that no experienced player really does any more. They'd buy more powerful starts and skip all those storylines they already have done a hundred times. So even WoW doesn't follow your suggestion, nor does SWTOR, a free to play game that restricts functions and features if you are FTP.
Coders don't work for caffeine and sugar, despite the rumors to the contrary. CCP is a company and needs to turn a profit. Investors and Venture Capitalists aren't evil money suckers, they provide the ability for companies to get cash raised to do activities they couldn't do on just their normal incomes. They do want to see a profit from their investments, as would anyone. EVE's economy actually has these mechanisms in it as well if you pay close enough attention.
You might not like how CCP gets its money, but it keeps it in business. You don't have to buy the extra products, only the monthly subscription. After that, just time in game gets you everything else. So, you only pay more if you want to get to some objective faster... that's all. Impatience costs us all money all the time, see my 'homework' post... cost me about 25mil ISK. I'm not sure why EVE should be any different and the expectation of such seems a bit of a leap.
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Kantar Vilorious
Toxic Turrets Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2016.02.26 23:45:36 -
[45] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:So your point is that EVE is losing some subscriptions, and the fix to this is to stop charging subscriptions at all (zero income), and switch to free-to-play, because free-to-players are never griefers and toxics, they're just the most wonderful, mature people ever.
Hearthstone is F2P and they make $20 million per month on micro transactions, that's definitely no zero income. Eve Online brings out the worst in people, what's a few more toxic players to add to the fun especially if it F2P. Subscription based games are a thing of the past especially in this economy. |
Jacques d'Orleans
The Scope Gallente Federation
2616
|
Posted - 2016.02.27 01:29:40 -
[46] - Quote
Kantar Vilorious wrote:Memphis Baas wrote:So your point is that EVE is losing some subscriptions, and the fix to this is to stop charging subscriptions at all (zero income), and switch to free-to-play, because free-to-players are never griefers and toxics, they're just the most wonderful, mature people ever. Hearthstone is F2P and they make $20 million per month on micro transactions, that's definitely no zero income. Eve Online brings out the worst in people, what's a few more toxic players to add to the fun especially if it F2P. Subscription based games are a thing of the past especially in this economy.
So if EVE is such an toxic community, why the hell are you still here? Are some kind of masochist? Sorry, but if i would be so uncomfortable with a game as you obviously are, i would have left the game a long time ago, because i surely wouldn't pay a monthly fee for something i can't stand. And by the way, if you really want to meet a toxic, anti-social gaming community i would highly advise you to play LoL, maybe then you would get what the word "toxic" really means.
The beginning of the End
Skill injectors? Attempting to give a shyte: 0.5%
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1194
|
Posted - 2016.02.27 01:56:03 -
[47] - Quote
Kantar Vilorious wrote: Why do you think they launched the new recruitment promo to get new players. I'm not even going to ask you to name the gaming company not looking for new players and just jump right into asking you to name me the company that is not looking for new customers.
Kantar Vilorious wrote: Griefers and toxics players push players from any game.
So if you could just name me the game that does not have griefers and toxic players so that I can go check out that game and see if it's worth playing that would great. Even at that you'd still have to prove that Eve has more than other games which I'm not convinced is the case.
Kantar Vilorious wrote: The only hope for Eve Online is to go free to play and to revamp training system. Today's gamers do not have time to wait days and weeks to fly something only to have it destroyed in seconds.
If you are waiting days and weeks to fly something then you are playing this game wrong and you'll never get into it.
To all new players out there reading this, if you are looking for instant gratification or a simple scripted game that walks you through every aspect of it so that you don't have to do any investigating or learning on your own and a game so simple that it can be mastered in a matter of months then keep looking because Eve is not the game for you. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1194
|
Posted - 2016.02.27 02:00:18 -
[48] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote: Investors and Venture Capitalists aren't evil money suckers,
You had me until this part. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
14399
|
Posted - 2016.02.27 02:10:23 -
[49] - Quote
Kantar Vilorious wrote: Today's gamers will either start voraciously consuming their lesser peers or become prey themselves just like the rest of us did. The predator/prey dynamic is what hooked me and what keeps me playing.
I would expect some to also see it and thrive, others to recoil in horror and go play home world or whatever eve dropouts do with themselves these days after whining and moaning.
i spend an inordinate amount of time reading the forums , keeping an eye out for them and giving advice where appropriate and mercilessly slagging off the inevitable whining entitled that can't reconcile with the reality of the game.
plenty of "today's gamers" thrive here precisely because of the reasons you condemn it.
if you dont like this game or community , kindly leave it then Edit : and keep your stuff, it will reek of apathy.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Memphis Baas
1221
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Posted - 2016.02.27 02:11:32 -
[50] - Quote
Kantar Vilorious wrote:Hearthstone is F2P and they make $20 million per month on micro transactions, that's definitely no zero income. Eve Online brings out the worst in people, what's a few more toxic players to add to the fun especially if it F2P. Subscription based games are a thing of the past especially in this economy.
So now it's EVE is losing subscriptions, so let's switch to a system that makes people pay a lot more, cause that will retain players for sure. And it's a toxic environment so let's make it more toxic. And there's no actual issues with subscriptions, but they're so 1990s and you don't like things of the past.
Tell you what: CCP released the equivalent of Hearthstone in 2006; you don't know about it because it's been oh so successful. How about you go away, pick that up and play it, and rave about F2P games elsewhere, hmm?
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1197
|
Posted - 2016.02.27 02:16:39 -
[51] - Quote
Kantar Vilorious wrote: Subscription based games are a thing of the past especially in this economy. I'm not sure how you have determined this. Everyone keeps saying it yet there seem to be plenty of subscription games that are doing well.
Kids who have to beg their parents for every dollar that they get like F2P games.They are also the ones with the most amount of time to play. You mentioned hearthstone making 20 million per month but the same company that makes hearthstone has another game that at one point had almost that many subs per month paying at least $15 dollars each and that game has been around for longer. So just within your one example it would seem to me that F2P is not where the real money is. But then I'm not playing this game based on CCP's profit margin and I did not play Blizzard games for theirs either.
There are people out there with jobs that don't mind paying money to play a game that is not just an interactive commercial selling you pretend clothes for your pretend persona. I'm not saying that every F2P game is going to die but I'm also not going to tell you that every subscription game is going to die either. There are markets for everything and to be frank with you, your black and white perspective on this leads me to believe that you are on the younger side of the age range of this game and that might explain your perspective on this a bit.
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Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
791
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Posted - 2016.02.27 03:22:33 -
[52] - Quote
It is not that subscription model games are bad. It is that games, especially FTP, with microtransactions ultimately generate more revenue per account. That is the trick to beings successful, not creating an artificial cap on revenue, which is what the traditional subscription model was. There is no need for CCP to go free to play, all CCP needed to do was create incentives for players to pay more per account. Which started with plex, and now is being experienced in skill injection.
According to the latest o7 over 15k players have use skill injections. That is a lot of extra revenue, so again, Eve is doing fine. There is no need to go FTP.
My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2239
|
Posted - 2016.02.27 11:04:11 -
[53] - Quote
Kantar Vilorious wrote:Memphis Baas wrote:So your point is that EVE is losing some subscriptions, and the fix to this is to stop charging subscriptions at all (zero income), and switch to free-to-play, because free-to-players are never griefers and toxics, they're just the most wonderful, mature people ever. Hearthstone is F2P and they make $20 million per month on micro transactions, that's definitely no zero income. Eve Online brings out the worst in people, what's a few more toxic players to add to the fun especially if it F2P. Subscription based games are a thing of the past especially in this economy. Essentially a subscription fee forces players to commit to the game. EvE as it is won't work IMO with the majority being short term casuals. Hence this pay wall is healthy for game community.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Susie Homemaker
Shhh...No More Tears
1
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Posted - 2016.03.02 04:01:06 -
[54] - Quote
Iria Ahrens wrote:So no, I really don't see eve dying. But I do forsee active accounts declining further, unless people decide that making new accounts for SP farms is a better option. So many characters are being cannibalized right now for SP it's not even funny.
Yep, two of my own alts were turned into SP farms and thrown away when they were no longer useful, and I have a bunch of other friends that have done something similar with their toons.
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Lianara Dayton
Society for Peace and Unity
31
|
Posted - 2016.03.02 12:34:19 -
[55] - Quote
Even though I don't agree with the most recent developments that CCP is adding to the game (namely skill injectors and their broader ramifications for the game) I don't think EVE will be "dying" anytime soon... At least not if CCP continues to listen to their customers (which they traditionally did quite well in the past compared to every other MMO that I played). If things really start going bad then I trust the EVE community to threadnaught the **** out of CCP like during the Summer of Rage, quit their subscriptions and cause CCP to pull the emergency break and reconsider what they're doing. That was only necessary once in the past 13 years and the game actually became better thanks to that.
I do think it's possible that the number of players will slowly decline in the coming years (for the reason stated above and also because it gets more and more difficult to convince people to even try a game that's 13+ years old) but I don't think this has to be a bad thing. When I started playing EVE there were never more then 5'000 people online at the same time and the game wasn't any "better" or "worse" because of it.
So in conclusion I don't think you have to be hesitant to invest time (and money) into EVE at the current point in time.
Lianara Dayton, Society for Peace and Unity
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Alaric Faelen
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
371
|
Posted - 2016.03.04 19:24:41 -
[56] - Quote
Eve isn't dying, it's just becoming less and less unique. There is increasingly less reason to pick up this game as opposed to many other titles on the market.
The reason why Eve lasted so long, and why people stayed with a game that is notoriously difficult, complicated, and unfair- is because it was utterly unique. It's still pretty different than what most MMO's offer- but CCP has decided that Eve is a little too unique and would sell better if it were.....some say dumbed down, made too easy....whatever you choose to call it. Eve has become more and more like those other MMO's, all of which offer an easier and more casual experience.
The player base has changed as well. When I started playing Eve half a decade ago, the things that attracted players to Eve are now the very things players cry to CCP about and demand be changed. The difficulty, the brutality, the complexity. There used to be a time when there was a sense of achievement in Eve. Now, there is nothing in the game that can't be gotten with RL money, except experience which CCP is constantly reducing the need for any way. Heck, now you can contest sov with a pack of alts, and skill inject those alts up to snuff in less time than it takes to fit the entosis ship. CCP isn't offering the player very much as a long term goal. Basically you can be a newb and do anything- including not even being a newb anymore by just injecting skills.
Sounds great for newbs. But terrible for anyone that hopes to still be playing a game in six months. |
Arton Agittain
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2016.03.05 18:07:47 -
[57] - Quote
Alaric Faelen wrote:Eve isn't dying, it's just becoming less and less unique. There is increasingly less reason to pick up this game as opposed to many other titles on the market.
The reason why Eve lasted so long, and why people stayed with a game that is notoriously difficult, complicated, and unfair- is because it was utterly unique. It's still pretty different than what most MMO's offer- but CCP has decided that Eve is a little too unique and would sell better if it were.....some say dumbed down, made too easy....whatever you choose to call it. Eve has become more and more like those other MMO's, all of which offer an easier and more casual experience.
The player base has changed as well. When I started playing Eve half a decade ago, the things that attracted players to Eve are now the very things players cry to CCP about and demand be changed. The difficulty, the brutality, the complexity. There used to be a time when there was a sense of achievement in Eve. Now, there is nothing in the game that can't be gotten with RL money, except experience which CCP is constantly reducing the need for any way. Heck, now you can contest sov with a pack of alts, and skill inject those alts up to snuff in less time than it takes to fit the entosis ship. CCP isn't offering the player very much as a long term goal. Basically you can be a newb and do anything- including not even being a newb anymore by just injecting skills.
Sounds great for newbs. But terrible for anyone that hopes to still be playing a game in six months.
Even with injected skills a newb is still a newb and b t w this also applies to those who log on to add a number of skills and then comes back when those skills are completed.
Player skill > Skill points without exception.
Due to RL-stuff I'm currently one of those people and have a training queue that stretches for about 2 weeks and I don-Št expect to be able to do much playing during that time. This means that even though I will have some new shiny skills when I do get time to play I won-Št be any better at playing the game then I am now. |
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