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Alliant Okaski
Exitium Inc. Cede Nullis
2
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Posted - 2016.02.29 14:28:41 -
[1] - Quote
Hey guys just a quick question about missile skills. Why are missile skills broken up into two parts while You only need to train one skill to five to branch into the tech two weapons for all other weapon types. For example to use tech two large rails and blasters all you need to train is large hybrid weapons to five And then train the required specialization skill. For tech two torpedoes and cruise missile launchers You need to train you need to train torpedoes to five and then the specialization skill as desired then Rinse and repeat cruises. Why not just have small, medium, and large missile operation then train The specialization skill for torpedos, cruises, HAMs...etc
Thanks for your input |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
5785
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Posted - 2016.02.29 18:09:03 -
[2] - Quote
Because CCP.
Historically missiles were not a primary weapon system. Even the venerable Raven had turret hardpoints. |
Beldantazar
Empyrean Acolytes
2
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Posted - 2016.02.29 22:02:55 -
[3] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Because CCP.
Historically missiles were not a primary weapon system. Even the venerable Raven had turret hardpoints.
You can still see legacies of this sort of thing in the weapons loadouts of the mission npcs. Many of their ship designs have not been updated in a very long time. So you will see things like full turret arrays on ravens, 8 turrets on nightmares and other bits of absurdity. |
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
454
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Posted - 2016.03.01 08:47:51 -
[4] - Quote
Because (if nothing else) it would be a bit silly to be really good with Torps... and specialised in Cruise (with no specialisation in Torps). Because Missiles are different. Drones are different too, neither follows the same treeing as turrets do. There are various ways in which missile skills are "superior" (Missile Projection & Missile Bombardment for example are multiplicative - whereas the Sharpshooter and Trajectory Analysis skills are additive. The former give approx 160% range, the latter 125%)... I haven't had to think about it for a while and I seem to recall suggestions of a change; but the fast-track to heavier T2s (not having to have lower size specialisations for battleship sized weapons (light missile spec for cruise for example).
The alternative might be to remove more than 4 million SPs worth of skills in Missiles by converting to a generic set of missile skills (Light, Medium, Heavy and Capital; light covering lights and rockets, medium covering heavies and heavy assaults...etc. - and there would almost certainly be confusion with those names...) One of the arguements against upgrading missiles to the status of a primary weapon system in the past was always the lower SP cost. It's not neccesarily a simple line to walk. |
Alliant Okaski
Exitium Inc. Cede Nullis
2
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Posted - 2016.03.01 15:39:55 -
[5] - Quote
Honestly my biggest complaint is having to train 19 days for cruise five and 19 for torpedoes five. It just seems like a disservice to missiles when I could go train t2 projectile weapons in half the time I'm aware missiles have been up and down in the past and they technically always apply damage, Bit there is a point where the game needs to be modernized from the past, especially with missiles Where they are used by two of the three factions. Are there some technical issues for CCP to work Out ? Sure but pvp and pve will be the better for it when missiles are an easy to train more viable Alternative. |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
1203
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Posted - 2016.03.01 16:59:16 -
[6] - Quote
It's different, but not necessarily harder to train missiles.
On a quick side note, I always thought it odd, that Torps are a rank 4 skill, and Cruise are a rank 5 skill.
The thing about missile class is: When you train *heavies* for instance, that skill applies to all 4 races. Same with HAMS, Lights, whatever. There's no racial tree to climb.
The average 'well skilled' gunnery character will have upwards of 20 million SP. That is with most specializations at IV. The average 'well skilled' missile guy will top out closer to 10 million SP.
EveBoard shows a possible 47,104,000 in gunnery 24,064,00 in missiles. That includes 1.3 million *kind of wasted* points in auto targeting and defenders.
I think you could train ONE racial tree of gunnery, maxed out for around 13 million SP or so. That is comparative to missiles, but again, missiles apply to all races, so more bang for the buck, literally.
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Tosuro
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.03.05 11:38:06 -
[7] - Quote
I think it's because "legacy" features. Like ship skill bonuses. They are called bonuses, but realistically, you NEED to use them in most cases to make a good fit on your ship. So not only you need to train the skill to at least the amount required to use it, but also train it further to even make a dent in some of the stronger foes. This makes my rookie life a bit harder than it should be, but not because of the difficulty of PvE environments, but because of the amount of time it takes to actually train the skills to do things I want. Well that, or I could just get hooked on Injectors. But mom always said, "Don't my do dear drugs son" or something. |
Sheeth Athonille
Rabid Dogz Mining The Bastion
76
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Posted - 2016.03.05 23:25:01 -
[8] - Quote
RavenPaine wrote:The thing about missile class is: When you train *heavies* for instance, that skill applies to all 4 races. Same with HAMS, Lights, whatever. There's no racial tree to climb.
The average 'well skilled' gunnery character will have upwards of 20 million SP. That is with most specializations at IV. The average 'well skilled' missile guy will top out closer to 10 million SP.
EveBoard shows a possible 47,104,000 in gunnery 24,064,00 in missiles. That includes 1.3 million *kind of wasted* points in auto targeting and defenders.
I think you could train ONE racial tree of gunnery, maxed out for around 13 million SP or so. That is comparative to missiles, but again, missiles apply to all races, so more bang for the buck, literally.
Well missiles really only apply to 3 races (Gallente don't really use them other than 1 or 2 on some t2 ships), where as gunnery skills apply to all ships (Caldari are both hybrids and missiles). So the support skills at least are more useful across races.
Yeah gunnery skills are still more "expensive" to max than missile skills, but I feel like gunnery skills are worth 4/3rds compared to missile skills since they apply more broadly. |
Daimien Hayes
Bitter Lemons Taylor Swift Empire
6
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Posted - 2016.03.06 18:41:40 -
[9] - Quote
Because historically not all of the missile support skills applied to both missile tree's they were billed as 'different' to gunnery.
However since Guided Missile Precision was applied to Torpedoes/HAMs/Rockets 2 or 3 years ago the only reasons to retain it is 'lore' and 'better, more immediate things to do than change around missile skills'.
I'd wish they would consolidate them but I too have better, more immediate things to wish for so I won't be holding my breath either.
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Admiral Icarus Raidriar
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2016.03.10 15:37:24 -
[10] - Quote
It does seem a little over-saturated, although the plethora of skills allows for a wider variety of missile types.
Don't explain your philosophy. Embody it.
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