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Pleasure Hub Node-514
Pleasure Hub Hotline
26
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Posted - 2016.03.01 12:07:20 -
[1] - Quote
Multi-use implant that creates an unstable wormhole anywhere in space into Thera. Wormhole collapses immediately upon entrance.
-Implant cannot be used to leave Thera. -Serves the function of bringing more ships and bodies into the Thera lion's den. -Places higher premium on guarding stations and scanning Thera out connections--laying traps at WH for people trying to escape. -PvP kickstarter. Spawn to Thera with personal wormhole whenever you want a fight.
'One night hauler' The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1632
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Posted - 2016.03.01 12:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
But entrances ate already abundant and almost always updated onto public sights the need for this is almost 0
Citadel worm hole tax
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Iain Cariaba
2731
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Posted - 2016.03.01 12:45:12 -
[3] - Quote
Considering there is this website, this suggestion is not needed.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
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Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
679
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Posted - 2016.03.01 12:50:15 -
[4] - Quote
How the hell does something you plug into your brain make dimensional rifts? |
Pleasure Hub Node-514
Pleasure Hub Hotline
26
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Posted - 2016.03.01 12:56:06 -
[5] - Quote
@Iain Cariaba
Yes, I've used Eve Scout before. This is a suggestion that removes some of the player hesitation for entering Thera (e.g. immediately bubbled on the inside. )
Under this proposal it's relatively easy to enter Thera, but bloody difficult to leave. Is there something wrong with that?
'One night hauler' The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
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Pleasure Hub Node-514
Pleasure Hub Hotline
26
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Posted - 2016.03.01 12:57:12 -
[6] - Quote
Celthric Kanerian wrote:How the hell does something you plug into your brain make dimensional rifts? D R I F T E R M A G I C It doesn't have to be an implant, however, preferably something small enough that can fit in the cargo hold of any ship.
'One night hauler' The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
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Heiluri
Unpublished Chapter Suddenly Content
2
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Posted - 2016.03.01 13:15:14 -
[7] - Quote
Considering how well Thera is connected to everywhere in the game this would be the most effective tool of force projection seen in the game. |
Pleasure Hub Node-514
Pleasure Hub Hotline
26
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Posted - 2016.03.01 13:29:22 -
[8] - Quote
Heiluri wrote:Considering how well Thera is connected to everywhere in the game this would be the most effective tool of force projection seen in the game. I could see this instigating massive fleet battles.
-Players activate Thera spawn device. -Regroup on fleet leader in Thera. -Scan down out WH or use existing bookmarks. -Push to claim out connection WH.
'One night hauler' The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
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Heiluri
Unpublished Chapter Suddenly Content
4
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Posted - 2016.03.01 13:50:02 -
[9] - Quote
Pleasure Hub Node-514 wrote:Heiluri wrote:Considering how well Thera is connected to everywhere in the game this would be the most effective tool of force projection seen in the game. I could see this instigating massive fleet battles. -Players activate Thera spawn device. -Regroup on fleet leader in Thera. -Scan down out WH or use existing bookmarks. -Push to claim out connection WH.
Where did massive amounts of force projection lead us last time? To the rental empires because no-one could challenge the groups that had the numbers and ability to project to the other side of New Eden in matter of minutes. Those groups still have the numbers required to do so and by allowing instant teleportation to Thera they are given back the power to hold large parts of the null sec easily. |
Pleasure Hub Node-514
Pleasure Hub Hotline
26
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Posted - 2016.03.01 13:59:01 -
[10] - Quote
Heiluri wrote:Where did massive amounts of force projection lead us last time? To the rental empires because no-one could challenge the groups that had the numbers and ability to project to the other side of New Eden in matter of minutes. Those groups still have the numbers required to do so and by allowing instant teleportation to Thera they are given back the power to hold large parts of the null sec easily. Wormhole mass physics would limit large scale projection into k-space territory. You could get large fleets mobilizing within Thera to protect (or collapse) wormhole access, however, it's still a race to find out-connections as they form.
'One night hauler' The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
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Lugh Crow-Slave
1634
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Posted - 2016.03.01 14:10:21 -
[11] - Quote
Pleasure Hub Node-514 wrote:Heiluri wrote:Where did massive amounts of force projection lead us last time? To the rental empires because no-one could challenge the groups that had the numbers and ability to project to the other side of New Eden in matter of minutes. Those groups still have the numbers required to do so and by allowing instant teleportation to Thera they are given back the power to hold large parts of the null sec easily. Wormhole mass physics would limit large scale projection into k-space territory. You could get large fleets mobilizing within Thera to protect (or collapse) wormhole access, however, it's still a race to find out-connections as they form.
not really i just stash ships all over then use this plant in an interceptor
Citadel worm hole tax
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Heiluri
Unpublished Chapter Suddenly Content
5
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Posted - 2016.03.01 14:13:44 -
[12] - Quote
Pleasure Hub Node-514 wrote:Heiluri wrote:Where did massive amounts of force projection lead us last time? To the rental empires because no-one could challenge the groups that had the numbers and ability to project to the other side of New Eden in matter of minutes. Those groups still have the numbers required to do so and by allowing instant teleportation to Thera they are given back the power to hold large parts of the null sec easily. Wormhole mass physics would limit large scale projection into k-space territory. You could get large fleets mobilizing within Thera to protect (or collapse) wormhole access, however, it's still a race to find out-connections as they form.
For this example let's take a look at L031 (Wormhole type between Thera and null) It has max mass of 3,000,000,000 kg (Yes, I know there is variance in the mass of a wormhole but we don't care about that in the example.) a Gila for example has a mass of 9,600,000 kg So with a single null sec connection from Thera we can project more than 300 cruisers I would call that pretty major force projection. I have a pretty good feeling that if this was to be implemented into the game, major null groups would seize and secure Thera in matter of hours. |
Pleasure Hub Node-514
Pleasure Hub Hotline
26
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Posted - 2016.03.01 14:22:58 -
[13] - Quote
Heiluri wrote:For this example let's take a look at L031 (Wormhole type between Thera and null) It has max mass of 3,000,000,000 kg (Yes, I know there is variance in the mass of a wormhole but we don't care about that in the example.) a Gila for example has a mass of 9,600,000 kg So with a single null sec connection from Thera we can project more than 300 cruisers I would call that pretty major force projection. I have a pretty good feeling that if this was to be implemented into the game, major null groups would seize and secure Thera in matter of hours. With the wormhole generator, people holding Thera have little control of who gets into system. They can't see when someone pops in due to the delayed chat mechanics. They'd have to be constantly prepared for offensives and stations are risky refitting spots.
If wormhole size is going to be an issue for power projection, mass can be shrunken.
'One night hauler' The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
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Ned Thomas
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
1832
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Posted - 2016.03.01 14:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
Heiluri wrote:
For this example let's take a look at L031 (Wormhole type between Thera and null) It has max mass of 3,000,000,000 kg (Yes, I know there is variance in the mass of a wormhole but we don't care about that in the example.) a Gila for example has a mass of 9,600,000 kg. So with a single null sec connection from Thera we can project more than 300 cruisers I would call that pretty major force projection. I have a pretty good feeling that if this was to be implemented into the game, major null groups would seize and secure Thera in matter of hours.
Well, people were convinced that major null groups were going to seize and secure Thera from the moment it was announced. So far, not so much. And limiting force projection here would be as simple as making the created wormhole so unstable that only one ship is allowed to pass through before it collapses. Maybe also make it so that only one created wormhole can be activated per k-space system and per pilot between downtimes, so that your 300 Gila's would need to leave from 300 different systems and couldn't go back until the next day.
That said, I'd rather keep the wandering nature of Thera. Part of the appeal is never knowing where it will pop up next and what connections will be available. Grand Central Station without a published train schedule. Just wouldn't feel the same if there was an "easy in" method. |
Mynxee
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
254
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Posted - 2016.03.01 14:34:31 -
[15] - Quote
Wormholes into Thera are almost never camped. Mainly it's the high sec ones that are close to a trade hub where you see that. And almost always, there's an uncamped alternate that adds only a few high sec jumps if you're interested in traveling to/from trade hubs. People who want fights in Thera can easily come there looking for them using our Web site; lots of my Signaleers (myself included) will cheerfully drop a bookmark for you if you're not set up to probe the entrance out yourself. People who want eyes in Thera to learn whether a hole is camped or not can join the EvE-Scout public channel and ask any Signal Cartel member. Fleet comps of camps are not part of what our guys are supposed to report; if a camp is reported and you choose to jump in, what you face after deciding to jump in is your problem.
OP, your implant idea doesn't make sense to me. Have you been to Thera?
Lost in space, looking for sigs...
Blog: Cloaky Wanderer
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Pleasure Hub Node-514
Pleasure Hub Hotline
26
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Posted - 2016.03.01 14:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
Ned Thomas wrote:That said, I'd rather keep the wandering nature of Thera. Part of the appeal is never knowing where it will pop up next and what connections will be available. Grand Central Station without a published train schedule. Just wouldn't feel the same if there was an "easy in" method. I appreciate your thoughts. I do understand the sentiment. I also feel like something powerful could be gained by letting people pack Thera at a moments notice. It'd still have 'wandering' connections, however everyone would be competing to catch the train home.
'One night hauler' The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
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Heiluri
Unpublished Chapter Suddenly Content
6
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Posted - 2016.03.01 14:42:04 -
[17] - Quote
Ned Thomas wrote: Well, people were convinced that major null groups were going to seize and secure Thera from the moment it was announced. So far, not so much. And limiting force projection here would be as simple as making the created wormhole so unstable that only one ship is allowed to pass through before it collapses. Maybe also make it so that only one created wormhole can be activated per k-space system and per pilot between downtimes, so that your 300 Gila's would need to leave from 300 different systems and couldn't go back until the next day.
That said, I'd rather keep the wandering nature of Thera. Part of the appeal is never knowing where it will pop up next and what connections will be available. Grand Central Station without a published train schedule. Just wouldn't feel the same if there was an "easy in" method.
Currently to benefit from Thera as a tool of force projection you need to have a suitable entry as well as an exit. Under the proposal of the OP you would only need the exit and not the entry so the strategic value of Thera would raise a fair bit. But then again who knows. And I do agree with you on the fact that Thera should be wandering. |
Pleasure Hub Node-514
Pleasure Hub Hotline
28
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Posted - 2016.03.01 14:42:27 -
[18] - Quote
Mynxee wrote:OP, your implant idea doesn't make sense to me. Have you been to Thera? I have. I was in signal cartel briefly (Jadek Kin).
What I'm suggesting changes the paradigm of how Thera is used. The idea of the personal wormhole generator is to quickly bring people into Thera via independent wormholes that collapse immediately. When inside the furious fishbowl, Thera out-connections have greater importance to both be camped and assaulted as people try to jump out of the fishbowl.
'One night hauler' The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
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Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2984
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Posted - 2016.03.01 14:54:32 -
[19] - Quote
I too enjoy random fleets spawning from the maw of the deep.
Considering how abundant Thera holes are, an implant such as this removes half of the travel time Through any Thera route. Which is already a strong tactic for many groups. |
Pleasure Hub Node-514
Pleasure Hub Hotline
28
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Posted - 2016.03.01 14:59:50 -
[20] - Quote
Rowells wrote:I too enjoy random fleets spawning from the maw of the deep.
Considering how abundant Thera holes are, an implant such as this removes half of the travel time Through any Thera route. Which is already a strong tactic for many groups. Yes, that is important. Would the trade off be worth it for nearly instant fleet PvP content in Thera. Fleet loads up personal 1-way WH generators. FC calls jump. Group reforms on FC in Thera and the fleet attempts to fight their way out of Thera.
'One night hauler' The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
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Helios Anduath
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
79
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Posted - 2016.03.01 15:39:02 -
[21] - Quote
Pleasure Hub Node-514 wrote:This is a suggestion that removes some of the player hesitation for entering Thera (e.g. immediately bubbled on the inside. )
You could always just ask in the eve-scout public channel for a scout-in - it is something we offer and it kinda fits the whole playing with other people idea of MMOs. |
Pleasure Hub Node-514
Pleasure Hub Hotline
28
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Posted - 2016.03.01 15:39:35 -
[22] - Quote
Mynxee wrote:People who want eyes in Thera to learn whether a hole is camped or not can join the EvE-Scout public channel and ask any Signal Cartel member. Fleet comps of camps are not part of what our guys are supposed to report; if a camp is reported and you choose to jump in, what you face after deciding to jump in is your problem. Like you said, it's a public channel. If you start asking about a hole it's quite likely someone cloaked will go an check out who is hopping through.
'One night hauler' The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
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Mynxee
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
255
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Posted - 2016.03.01 15:41:37 -
[23] - Quote
Pleasure Hub Node-514 wrote:Mynxee wrote:People who want eyes in Thera to learn whether a hole is camped or not can join the EvE-Scout public channel and ask any Signal Cartel member. Fleet comps of camps are not part of what our guys are supposed to report; if a camp is reported and you choose to jump in, what you face after deciding to jump in is your problem. Like you said, it's a public channel. If you start asking about a hole it's quite likely someone cloaked will go an check out who is hopping through.
Wise people ask for a Signal Cartel member and then have a private convo with whomever responds, and don't give details about why in the public channel.
Lost in space, looking for sigs...
Blog: Cloaky Wanderer
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Pleasure Hub Node-514
Pleasure Hub Hotline
28
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Posted - 2016.03.01 15:42:12 -
[24] - Quote
Helios Anduath wrote:Pleasure Hub Node-514 wrote:This is a suggestion that removes some of the player hesitation for entering Thera (e.g. immediately bubbled on the inside. ) You could always just ask in the eve-scout public channel for a scout-in - it is something we offer and it kinda fits the whole playing with other people idea of MMOs. Has something changed since I was last in Signal Cartel? All kinds of people watch that channel and you warned about it in the MOTD.
'One night hauler' The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
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Pleasure Hub Node-514
Pleasure Hub Hotline
28
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Posted - 2016.03.01 15:45:54 -
[25] - Quote
Mynxee wrote:Pleasure Hub Node-514 wrote:Mynxee wrote:People who want eyes in Thera to learn whether a hole is camped or not can join the EvE-Scout public channel and ask any Signal Cartel member. Fleet comps of camps are not part of what our guys are supposed to report; if a camp is reported and you choose to jump in, what you face after deciding to jump in is your problem. Like you said, it's a public channel. If you start asking about a hole it's quite likely someone cloaked will go an check out who is hopping through. Wise people ask for a Signal Cartel member and then have a private convo with whomever responds, and don't give details about why in the public channel. Little stops someone for relaying location data to a 3rd party once in a while. Not saying I did that while in Signal Cartel.
Learn who you can trust in the New Eden sandbox.
'One night hauler' The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
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Helios Anduath
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
79
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Posted - 2016.03.01 15:47:58 -
[26] - Quote
Pleasure Hub Node-514 wrote:Has something changed since I was last in Signal Cartel? All kinds of people watch that channel and you warned about it in the MOTD.
Nothing is changed - you just have to be cautious. Ask for a scout in the channel and make sure you "trust" anyone who offers to scout and only give the details in a private chat.
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2642
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Posted - 2016.03.01 15:53:14 -
[27] - Quote
So let me get this straight. You want an item that can open a WH to There from anywhere in any system and you think it will not create MASSIVE projection problem.
1- Open hole to thera 2- Crit it 3- Open second hole because you have ISK to buy more than one 4- Crit that one too because you have a lot of ship in your fleet 5- Open any number of needed holes because well, it only cost you an item and you can use it at will. 6- Crit all those hole because your group is baller as **** and can form up huge fleet. 7- Send 1 scout interceptor in target system because why the hell would you invade Thera when you can turn it into super-highway 2.0 8- Open hole to Thera in target system 9- Open all the holes you needed in steps 1 to 6 because I think you are getting the point I am making (You only need 1 scout as the other required WH generator can be brought across by the main fleet, Just herd your cat correctly so they jump in the first wave. 10- Enjoy having moved a fleet of unlimited size over an unlimited distance without suffering a single fatigue timer and the cost of some ISK 11- Do whatever OP you had to do in target system 12- Repeat process back to staging system because you have so much dank ISK you can still burn it on teleportation devi... WH generators. 13- Log off back in staging systems in time for dinner. |
Pleasure Hub Node-514
Pleasure Hub Hotline
28
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Posted - 2016.03.01 16:05:21 -
[28] - Quote
@Frostys Virpio
How I'm looking at it.
-A single 1-way WH to Thera per ship (acts like a /moveme command with a WH animation). Placement of spawn-in (instant collapsing) WH is random. Thera is a very large place. -Generators are low LP cost or cheaply (or no cost) made available after completing a Sisters of Eve mission arch -Large fleets form up to defend/attack out-connection WH -Adjust mass limits of Thera out-WH if large fleet projection becomes problematic. Allow small/medium fleets to project through wh with large fleet support inside Thera.
Instant fleet fight club
'One night hauler' The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2304
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Posted - 2016.03.01 18:26:15 -
[29] - Quote
No. Thera is good the way it is currently.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Fidelas Constans
2986
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Posted - 2016.03.01 19:59:24 -
[30] - Quote
Pleasure Hub Node-514 wrote:Rowells wrote:I too enjoy random fleets spawning from the maw of the deep.
Considering how abundant Thera holes are, an implant such as this removes half of the travel time Through any Thera route. Which is already a strong tactic for many groups. Yes, that is important. Would the trade off be worth it for nearly instant fleet PvP content in Thera. Fleet loads up personal 1-way WH generators. FC calls jump. Group reforms on FC in Thera and the fleet attempts to fight their way out of Thera. You miss the point, it wouldn't be used primarily to fight in Thera, it would be used to go through Thera. Thera is probably the fastest way to get from any one system to the opposite side of the map. That travel is part of what got null <-> null wormholes nerfed. |
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