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Teium Purvanen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2016.03.03 11:42:44 -
[1] - Quote
Morning all :)
I managed to figure out how to put myself in deep space to make a little "safe zone" for myself whilst scanning.
I warp to a base and while in mid warp I add a location in my people and places. I then warp straight back to that location so I can scan. Don't know if this is the best thing to do, but seems to work well so far!
My question is - Can someone warp to me whilst i'm in this random location? If so, how would they go about doing it. Trying to cover all bases before I venture into nullsec for the first time.
Many thanks Teium |
Lianara Dayton
Society for Peace and Unity
31
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Posted - 2016.03.03 11:52:25 -
[2] - Quote
The method you're describing is referred to as a "safe spot" in EVE. There are two possibilities to warp to you when you're at a safe:
A) if you're in a fleet with the other person then they can warp to you.
B) the other person can deploy probes (using a probe launcher) and can scan you down that way. Probing you down takes anywhere from a couple of seconds to several minutes and depends mainly on the following factors: the skills of the prober, the type of probes being used, the type of ship being used, the implants of the prober VS. the signature radius (size) of your ship (the bigger the easier you are to probe), the sensor strength of your ship (the higher, the harder you are to probe) and the location of your safe spot (the further and the more out-of-the-way the better).
I think that pretty much sums it up.
In theory there is also:
C) a person could randomly create a safe spot at the same location as you (within about 9'000km) and find you that way but given the size of space this is virtually impossible.
Lianara Dayton, Society for Peace and Unity
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Teium Purvanen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2016.03.03 11:55:26 -
[3] - Quote
Are covert ops ships harder to scan down?
Can you be scanned down whilst cloaked? |
Lianara Dayton
Society for Peace and Unity
31
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Posted - 2016.03.03 12:03:07 -
[4] - Quote
No, cloaked ships are impossible to probe.
AFAIK there are no ships that have a direct bonus to evading probes but a small ship with high sensor strength is harder to scan. Add a covops cloak and you're golden (at least if you only uncloak for a cupple of seconds).
Also, probes are visible on the directional scanner so you can usually tell if you're being hunted by a prober if you pay attention (but this is not 100% sure - skilled probers might be able to probe you so fast that you won't see the probes on dscan unless you're concentrating on that exclusively).
Lianara Dayton, Society for Peace and Unity
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
14487
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Posted - 2016.03.03 12:11:12 -
[5] - Quote
safe spots
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Lianara Dayton
Society for Peace and Unity
33
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Posted - 2016.03.03 12:35:46 -
[6] - Quote
A further thing to keep in mind: when probing then you can change the scanning range of your deployed probes (32AU to 0,5 AU iirc) and the longer you set the range, the weaker the sensor strength of the probes becomes. That's why (as Ralph explained) it's a huge advantage for the prober to know in what general area you are before they even launch their probes.
Lianara Dayton, Society for Peace and Unity
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
14488
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Posted - 2016.03.03 12:39:02 -
[7] - Quote
Lianara Dayton wrote:A further thing to keep in mind: when probing then you can change the scanning range of your deployed probes (32AU to 0,5 AU iirc) and the longer you set the range, the weaker the sensor strength of the probes becomes. That's why (as Ralph explained) it's a huge advantage for the prober to know in what general area you are before they even launch their probes. exactly yes, if they already know where you are you have to be lucky enough to hit d-scan while their probes are actually cycling as its the only time they will be in space for you to see.
if you see combat probes on d-scan GTFO
now this all assumes you are actually probable i.e. uncloaked.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Teium Purvanen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2016.03.03 12:53:13 -
[8] - Quote
I think i will need to delete my safe spots and start again. Thankfully I didn't do too many
So if I warped to....say a station, created a safe spot mid way. Head to that safe spot and, warp to somewhere else and create a safe spot. Delete spot 1 and use spot 2 - would that be safer to do?
Sorry if these are stupid questions. I'm only 2 weeks old :D |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
14491
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Posted - 2016.03.03 12:58:55 -
[9] - Quote
Teium Purvanen wrote:I think i will need to delete my safe spots and start again. Thankfully I didn't do too many
So if I warped to....say a station, created a safe spot mid way. Head to that safe spot and, warp to somewhere else and create a safe spot. Delete spot 1 and use spot 2 - would that be safer to do?
Sorry if these are stupid questions. I'm only 2 weeks old :D yes exactly , assuming the second spot is not inline with two warpable points in space and is as far as possible from the gates and stations it should require a good bit more effort to pin you down.
these would only be stupid questions if you didn't ask them
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Memphis Baas
1263
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Posted - 2016.03.03 13:05:18 -
[10] - Quote
So:
1. If you're cloaked you're safe, but modules get deactivated when the cloak is running, so that limits what you can do while cloaked. You have to uncloak to launch the probes, but can be cloaked while they're scanning.
2. Figure out how to operate the d-scan. Edit your overview settings to include combat and core probes, so that you can see them on d-scan without getting cluttered by all the other stuff out there.
3. Make multiple safespots, so you can warp to the next one should the first be discovered. As mentioned above, a spot on the line between two planets is ok, but if you pick a third planet and create a new safespot as you warp to it from your first spot, that second safespot will be in the middle of the triangle, so to speak, and not on any direct lines, so slightly harder to pinpoint. Not by much, though.
4. While you're playing with d-scan and safe spots, practice creating a safe spot near (but off the grid of) a stargate, by warping to the planet or moon that it orbits (don't warp to the gate), and use the d-scan from your safe spot with a focused 5 degree angle to see who's in the vicinity of the stargate. Practice detecting gate camps, basically, without running into them.
5. Get a ship that has bonuses to probing and can fit a expanded probe launcher, and a friend, and try to probe them out as they sit at a safe spot. |
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Nadja Hawk
Out of Pod Exploration
4
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Posted - 2016.03.03 13:26:05 -
[11] - Quote
Teium Purvanen wrote:Morning all :)
I managed to figure out how to put myself in deep space to make a little "safe zone" for myself whilst scanning.
I warp to a base and while in mid warp I add a location in my people and places. I then warp straight back to that location so I can scan. Don't know if this is the best thing to do, but seems to work well so far!
My question is - Can someone warp to me whilst i'm in this random location? If so, how would they go about doing it. Trying to cover all bases before I venture into nullsec for the first time.
Many thanks Teium
what you made was a Midwarp bookmark, not a Safe. to make a safe do another midwarp bm and then a bm from mw a to mw b. |
Teium Purvanen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
9
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Posted - 2016.03.03 13:56:12 -
[12] - Quote
Got it!
Awesome, thanks for the help guys. I'll spend tonight re-doing them :)
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
765
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Posted - 2016.03.03 14:12:03 -
[13] - Quote
Lianara Dayton wrote:Probing you down takes anywhere from a couple of seconds to several minutes and depends mainly on the following factors: Going to snip and respond to this because I see this all over every EvE forum on the internet and it may be a lie depending on how you define "couple of seconds". Accounting for all of the variables in this except player skills(the human being) and given that you have already used D-dscan to determine the position of the target as accurately as possible you still need somewhere between 10 and 15 seconds to move probes, run scan cycle and then recall probes and the probes would be visible on D-scan the entire time.
Rest of the information is excellent. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
14500
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Posted - 2016.03.03 14:28:40 -
[14] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Lianara Dayton wrote:Probing you down takes anywhere from a couple of seconds to several minutes and depends mainly on the following factors: Going to snip and respond to this because I see this all over every EvE forum on the internet and it may be a lie depending on how you define "couple of seconds". Accounting for all of the variables in this except player skills(the human being) and given that you have already used D-dscan to determine the position of the target as accurately as possible you still need somewhere between 10 and 15 seconds to move probes, run scan cycle and then recall probes and the probes would be visible on D-scan the entire time. Rest of the information is excellent. iv stipulated exactly this in my first post
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Solomar Espersei
Quality Assurance
583
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Posted - 2016.03.03 14:54:05 -
[15] - Quote
Nice illustration of a proper safe there Ralph (yoink).
Quality Assurance
Recruiting intrepid explorers and BlOps/Cov Ops combat enthusiasts
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Teium Purvanen
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
9
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Posted - 2016.03.03 15:11:16 -
[16] - Quote
I'm guessing from what i've read, that there is a lot I can do better to protect myself, but ultimately if a skilled player wants to hunt me down, they'll get me sooner or later. So in the end, just do what i can to "fly safe"
And if Ralph is about, fly in the opposite direction :P |
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
79
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Posted - 2016.03.03 15:48:42 -
[17] - Quote
I didn't see specific reference to the probes that can find you, ONLY combat probes can track you down. Normal CORE probes can't. For combat probes, they need to be using a ship that can handle an expanded probe launcher, which chews up massive ship resources, so you'll be facing a somewhat castrated cruiser or something much larger. That is why Ralph is saying LEAVE if you see combat probes.
Make certain that combat probes show up on all your overviews that you normally sit on while doing whatever it is you are doing out in Low/Null Sec. In HiSec, don't bother. If they can't wipe you in 10 seconds, you'll have a lot of help... shortly, so they will really have to want you badly.
I have a trick for making safe spots. I actually scan down signatures and bookmark them. So, doesn't matter if it's a wormhole or pirate den or old ore site, I keep the bookmarks. These make great safe spots and if you are lucky and something else pops up in the same spot or nearby it, you don't have to scan it down again!
Also, you don't need to be in fleet if your safe spot is a corporate bookmark. If you can make those, then anyone in your corp can warp to it. |
Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
801
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Posted - 2016.03.03 16:08:31 -
[18] - Quote
Teium Purvanen wrote:I think i will need to delete my safe spots and start again. Thankfully I didn't do too many
So if I warped to....say a station, created a safe spot mid way. Head to that safe spot and, warp to somewhere else and create a safe spot. Delete spot 1 and use spot 2 - would that be safer to do?
Sorry if these are stupid questions. I'm only 2 weeks old :D
Don't delete those midwarps just yet. You need the midwarps to make safespots, since safespots are generally midwarps between midwarps. Also, a midwarp is better than nothing in system, and you can use it as a base for establishing real ss later.
Pandora Carrollon wrote: I have a trick for making safe spots. I actually scan down signatures and bookmark them. So, doesn't matter if it's a wormhole or pirate den or old ore site, I keep the bookmarks. These make great safe spots and if you are lucky and something else pops up in the same spot or nearby it, you don't have to scan it down again!
Not so good. All signatures are 8au of celestials. Like Ralf said, ideally you want to be as far away from a celestial as possible. But they are good, especially when all planets are on the same plane and in a line, (I hate those systems) then you can use sigs to at least get a little off line.
SS effectiveness are directly proportional to your distance from celestials and the size of the system.
My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
14503
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Posted - 2016.03.03 16:41:21 -
[19] - Quote
Teium Purvanen wrote:I'm guessing from what i've read, that there is a lot I can do better to protect myself, but ultimately if a skilled player wants to hunt me down, they'll get me sooner or later. So in the end, just do what i can to "fly safe"
And if Ralph is about, fly in the opposite direction :P no not at all, keep informed and on your toes and you should be fine, learn from your mistakes and try to keep your learning losses cheap so that you know how to keep the expensive stuff alive. another thing worth remembering is the old joke about the two lads being tracked by a pack of wolves
one of them upon hearing the wolves starts to run but notices the other stretching and pacing himself and says to him
"mate you know we cant out run wolves right."
to which his friend replies " i know , i only need to out run you "
there are plenty of easy targets around, dont be one of them and you should be fine
btw im a highsec mercenary, we do focused wars on specific targets so you wouldn't be likely to find yourself alone in lowsec with me .
Pandora Carrollon wrote: In HiSec, don't bother. If they can't wipe you in 10 seconds, you'll have a lot of help... shortly, so they will really have to want you badly. ooooooooh i love that people think this way, i truly do
peoples complacency in highsec is fantastic to exploit.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
81
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Posted - 2016.03.03 17:01:12 -
[20] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:ooooooooh i love that people think this way, i truly do peoples complacency in highsec is fantastic to exploit.
Yeah, but in .7 or higher you have to be willing to toss your ship out the airlock as well so your target better be worth it!
Besides, I need to give my insurance agent SOMETHING to do to earn his exorbitant fees.
As to the desire to be outside of 14AU from a celestial (so D scan doesn't work), I haven't found a way to warp to someone with D scan. It seems to just give you a starting 'area' to work with for scanning. If the target takes Ralph's advice and moves the second they see combat probes, then those probes might be fishing in the wrong 14AU hole so I'm not certain that it's a huge benefit to fly waaaay off grid. That takes a lot of time, unless there's a trick to that I'm unaware of, which is entirely possible.
Oh, also bookmark old mission sites, those can be way off grid, as can combat sites with acceleration gates. I bookmark those too.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
14507
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Posted - 2016.03.03 17:17:05 -
[21] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:ooooooooh i love that people think this way, i truly do peoples complacency in highsec is fantastic to exploit. Yeah, but in .7 or higher you have to be willing to toss your ship out the airlock as well so your target better be worth it! Besides, I need to give my insurance agent SOMETHING to do to earn his exorbitant fees. As to the desire to be outside of 14AU from a celestial (so D scan doesn't work), I haven't found a way to warp to someone with D scan. It seems to just give you a starting 'area' to work with for scanning. If the target takes Ralph's advice and moves the second they see combat probes, then those probes might be fishing in the wrong 14AU hole so I'm not certain that it's a huge benefit to fly waaaay off grid. That takes a lot of time, unless there's a trick to that I'm unaware of, which is entirely possible. Oh, also bookmark old mission sites, those can be way off grid, as can combat sites with acceleration gates. I bookmark those too. this is why line safes are ill advised.
as for the distance thing, its about buying yourself time from determined tracking, the larger the area you could be in , the larger the margin for error you have, if i dont know where you are it may take 2 or 3 passes with probes to find you and that can give you up to 30s to a minuet of probes in space to cop on to the notion someone is hunting you and if you miss that you deserve to get shot in the face ... and in low or nullsec you will.
mission sites can be better , the best though are incursion sites, they spawn waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
81
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Posted - 2016.03.03 18:18:59 -
[22] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:this is why line safes are ill advised.
Yeah, I love that video from Jonny, it's one of my favs. I just use line safes as a way to make another more safe-safe or to stop short of a destination so I can peek at it in the future before actually landing there.
Ralph King-Griffin wrote: as for the distance thing, its about buying yourself time from determined tracking, the larger the area you could be in , the larger the margin for error you have, if i dont know where you are it may take 2 or 3 passes with probes to find you and that can give you up to 30s to a minuet of probes in space to cop on to the notion someone is hunting you and if you miss that you deserve to get shot in the face ... and in low or nullsec you will.
Yeah, not the first time I've heard this, but man, I can't seem to scan anything down really fast. I've read on it, watched videos, but those target points are so faint, and red, that I just can't scan them quickly. I'm always looking at them from at least two planes to get the box on them correctly, I guess I'm jealous of those of you that can do it fast.
So, to the OP, you are absolutely safe from me, I suck at scanning things down... takes me almost a minute and a half to scan down a cosmic signal on a good day. Better watch out for Ralph though, I hear he's sneaky.
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Iria Ahrens
Space Perverts and Forum Pirates
803
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Posted - 2016.03.03 20:58:20 -
[23] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:
As to the desire to be outside of 14AU from a celestial (so D scan doesn't work), I haven't found a way to warp to someone with D scan. It seems to just give you a starting 'area' to work with for scanning. If the target takes Ralph's advice and moves the second they see combat probes, then those probes might be fishing in the wrong 14AU hole so I'm not certain that it's a huge benefit to fly waaaay off grid. That takes a lot of time, unless there's a trick to that I'm unaware of, which is entirely possible.
When probing a player that is close to a celestial, a player can just center the celestial and run a scan. If they didn't get a warp-to on that first scan, they can probably pinpoint you on the second. D-scan is mainly used to figure out which celestial you are at.
So a hunter will enter system and try to find a secluded place to drop probes. While they are warping around they do a d-scan looking for prey. If someone pops up on d-scan they either compare the distance to the celestials in their overview, or plug the values into "pirates little friend", and it spits out the most likely celestial. Hunter then finds a place 15AU from target and drops probes, and drops a group centered on THAT celestial. Combat probes sweep a larger area than core probes, so one sweep centered on the correct celestial is plenty for a pro prober, and if they get a near miss, that second sweep is gonna nail it. This is how d-scan and probing work together to quickly nail a warp-to.
If you are more than 8 AU from a celestial, then the hunter can't just drop a tight group on that celestial and it will take more scans. If you are more than 15 AU from a celestial, then the player will need to do a wide sweep, and then follow with at least 2 smaller sweeps. This is three chances to notice the probes being deployed an react instead of only one.
Dscaning down a player can be done, there are videos of it being done, it is very tedious involves many bookmarks, and relies on a system that has celestials on different vertical and horizontal planes. But a determined player can use it to hunt someone hiding in a SS. And again, it is easier the closer you are to a celestial since then that player can use anomolies to generate angles not otherwise available.
My choice of pronouns is based on your avatar. Even if I know what is behind the avatar.
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Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
216
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Posted - 2016.03.03 21:46:57 -
[24] - Quote
Are you in low sec? If you are in high sec space you are safe because it is very unlikely anyone will be willing to sacrifice a ship to destroy a newbie's ship. In high security space if someone shoots at you they will be automatically destroyed within a 5-20 seconds.
You do not need to delete safe spots, more is better. If somebody is chasing you, warp to another one.
Whenever you are at a safe spot set your ship speed to maximum; that way you will have changed positions from the one they got from the scan.
If combat probes are in your vicinity, you only have a few seconds before the guy arrives.
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Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
83
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Posted - 2016.03.03 23:39:42 -
[25] - Quote
Iria Ahrens wrote: When probing a player that is close to a celestial, a player can just center the celestial and run a scan. If they didn't get a warp-to on that first scan, they can probably pinpoint you on the second. D-scan is mainly used to figure out which celestial you are at.
So a hunter will enter system and try to find a secluded place to drop probes. While they are warping around they do a d-scan looking for prey. If someone pops up on d-scan they either compare the distance to the celestials in their overview, or plug the values into "pirates little friend", and it spits out the most likely celestial. Hunter then finds a place 15AU from target and drops probes, and drops a group centered on THAT celestial. Combat probes sweep a larger area than core probes, so one sweep centered on the correct celestial is plenty for a pro prober, and if they get a near miss, that second sweep is gonna nail it. This is how d-scan and probing work together to quickly nail a warp-to.
If you are more than 8 AU from a celestial, then the hunter can't just drop a tight group on that celestial and it will take more scans. If you are more than 15 AU from a celestial, then the player will need to do a wide sweep, and then follow with at least 2 smaller sweeps. This is three chances to notice the probes being deployed an react instead of only one.
Dscaning down a player can be done, there are videos of it being done, it is very tedious involves many bookmarks, and relies on a system that has celestials on different vertical and horizontal planes. But a determined player can use it to hunt someone hiding in a SS. And again, it is easier the closer you are to a celestial since then that player can use anomolies to generate angles not otherwise available.
Thanks for the details. I was getting the gist of the technique from what Ralph posted but the details are a nice add. |
Vortexo VonBrenner
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
2255
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Posted - 2016.03.04 00:31:35 -
[26] - Quote
OP, you can press f11 to open up your system map. Among other uses, it might help you make safespots that are farther away from things.
ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?
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Trevor Dalech
We pooped on your lawn Resonance.
214
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Posted - 2016.03.04 07:15:25 -
[27] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Lianara Dayton wrote:Probing you down takes anywhere from a couple of seconds to several minutes and depends mainly on the following factors: Going to snip and respond to this because I see this all over every EvE forum on the internet and it may be a lie depending on how you define "couple of seconds". Accounting for all of the variables in this except player skills(the human being) and given that you have already used D-dscan to determine the position of the target as accurately as possible you still need somewhere between 10 and 15 seconds to move probes, run scan cycle and then recall probes and the probes would be visible on D-scan the entire time. Rest of the information is excellent.
Launch probes out of d-scan range and position them way above the system so your target doesn't see them even if he is warping around. Then once you have located your target through d-scan, place your probes in a 0.5 formation right on top of your target and hit scan ONCE, recall them immediately after the scan finishes. For me, the time between hitting scan, and getting the scan results is about 6 seconds, the moment you recall the probes they also disappear immediately from d-scan. |
Adeline Lachance
University of Caille Gallente Federation
11
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Posted - 2016.03.17 23:02:22 -
[28] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:Make certain that combat probes show up on all your overviews that you normally sit on while doing whatever it is you are doing out in Low/Null Sec.
I have a dedicated preset for d-scan only that shows combat probes. In practice, how useful is it to also include them in your overview? How often will combat probes of someone trying to scan you down be on grid?
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1282
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Posted - 2016.03.17 23:50:48 -
[29] - Quote
Adeline Lachance wrote: I have a dedicated preset for d-scan only that shows combat probes. In practice, how useful is it to also include them in your overview? How often will combat probes of someone trying to scan you down be on grid?
I have not messed with my overview settings in several months so forgive me if my info is dated but if not now then at least in the not so distant past the only way to filter D scan readings was the have it follow your overview filter settings. So in having your overview filter for combat probes you were not looking to see them on grid but to see them on D scan.
Also since you would almost never see them on grid unless you or someone near you launched them then it typically did not hurt to just include them in every or almost every overview preset setting. Further it can be helpful to see when someone jumps through a gate and launches probes or undocks and launches probes etc... This can also but used in reverse meaning if there is any doubt if you will see combat probes on D scan just get in a ship with a launcher and launch the probes and see if they show up on overview.
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Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
112
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Posted - 2016.03.18 00:16:44 -
[30] - Quote
Adeline Lachance wrote:Pandora Carrollon wrote:Make certain that combat probes show up on all your overviews that you normally sit on while doing whatever it is you are doing out in Low/Null Sec. I have a dedicated preset for d-scan only that shows combat probes. In practice, how useful is it to also include them in your overview? How often will combat probes of someone trying to scan you down be on grid?
Overview, I've found, is a bit different than Dscan. Overview updates regularly and can catch probes on it if they are nearby. This has happened to me once. I was in HiSec so I wasn't overly worried, it's usually just people playing with them or doing explorations of the Cosmic Anomalies. It does make me watch my Dscan closer and double check local for any unsavory sorts.
In Low/NullSec, it would be time to GTFO if I was doing PvE activity. If I wanted to do PvP, I'd use it to start warming up weapons and moving fast to avoid getting trapped right away or jump out and set up as hunter... but I'm not a PvP expert so others can chime in with better/more useful opinions.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
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