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Ni Neith
Hedion University Amarr Empire
16
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Posted - 2016.03.10 13:40:39 -
[31] - Quote
Helios Anduath wrote: Also, if you got as mad as you sound over a ship loss, please calm down and take a step back.
No I wont, because instead of fixing this important issue CCP is introducing stupid minigames they call science! |
Helios Anduath
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
109
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Posted - 2016.03.10 15:05:15 -
[32] - Quote
Ni Neith wrote:No I wont, because instead of fixing this important issue CCP is introducing stupid minigames they call science!
And how, prey tell, would you like CCP to fix an issue that is most likely out of their control and you are not providing any diagnostics?
Sockets closeds triggered by something on CCP's side usually result in lots of people being disconnected at once and they are usually transient issues with their ISP that get resolved quickly. These are picked up by their monitoring and CCP are good at acknowledging them and informing people that something has happened on the eve-status twitter.
Most of the time with more localised/smaller numbers of people disconnecting at once, it is something between them and CCP. For a single, one-off event affecting a few people, it could be anything from a route failing over at an intermediate network (either planned or as a result of a failure), a cable getting moved while someone is poking in a rack causing packet loss, or any number of other transient effects that cause a momentatry blip and then pass. These are not something that can be fixed - they happen, that is the nature of the internet and is even more pronounced when you are using services in another country due to the number of intermediate networks you pass through. Getting upset over a one-off discconet really isn't helpful and if it really does annoy you that much, maybe online gaming isn't for you?
For individuals having issues at differnt times, from the people I have been helping at least, we are generally finding that there is either noticeable packet loss on a pingplotter or connecting through a VPN stabilises things. This shows it is not an issue on CCP's end but something somewhere on one of the many networks that your traffic passes through on it's merry way from you to CCP.
Could there be an underliying issue for some people at CCP's end? possibly but as long as people keep blaming every socket closed on CCP and fail to carry out any diagnostics it will not be found as there are so many false reports to sift through. In most cases it really is NOT a problem at CCP's end.
Now, if you want some help or to help work out what happened, please post a tracert to client.eveonline.com at a minimum or if the socket closeds keep happening, a screenshot of pingplotter to client.eveonline.com during a disconnect event. |
Ni Neith
Hedion University Amarr Empire
17
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Posted - 2016.03.10 17:04:33 -
[33] - Quote
Helios Anduath wrote:These are not something that can be fixed - they happen, that is the nature of the internet and is even more pronounced when you are using services in another country due to the number of intermediate networks you pass through. Getting upset over a one-off discconet really isn't helpful and if it really does annoy you that much, maybe online gaming isn't for you?
Can or can't be fixed? Anyway. I know this is bs since I am playing eve for 2 years now. Never was there such a high rate of drops like in the last few month. |
Helios Anduath
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
109
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Posted - 2016.03.10 18:35:19 -
[34] - Quote
Ni Neith wrote:Can or can't be fixed? Anyway. I know this is bs since I am playing eve for 2 years now. Never was there such a high rate of drops like in the last few month.
Can't - my bad.
You can call BS as much as you want - it does not change the fundamental way that the Internet and networking in general function. Socket closeds happen because of packet loss, there are no two ways about it. Packet loss is a result of network issues.
A wireshark traffic capture from someone having recuring issues earlier was showing TCP retransmissions (so no acknowledgement received, showing that packets have been lost somewhere) right before a socket closed. If you don't know networking, you can generally think of it in terms of a 4-layer abstracted model. Eve runs up at the application layer. TCP stuff happens at the transport layer, this is below the application layer and handled by the network stack in your OS.
In contrast to your "knowledge", I can tell you that the only time I have had socket closeds is when my ISP had issues. Other than that, my playtime has not been affected by socket closeds at all. I can also tell you that a number of other people who were having socket closed problems was due to issues under their control - for example, one guy had a wifi problem that developed recently because of a change in local RF noise and a wifi adapter starting to die.
If stuff has started to happen in the last few months, have you looked at what local issues exist (e.g. have you actually done any diagnostics on your setup and connection to determine if you have some local hardware that is going dodgy or whether your ISP is having issues)? On a more global scale, some of the routers on the East Coast of the US have been having utilisation problems, there have been cable faults in the Australia and Asian Pacific regions. The data centre move on the 29th resulted in routes changing for people as CCP have added more peering so this is why some people have started having issues since then.
You still haven't posted a tracert or any other diags, or even said what if any diagnostics you have done. This tells me that you don't actually want to try to fix your issue is and instead just want to complain and unreasonably apportion blame without doing your homework.
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Ni Neith
Hedion University Amarr Empire
19
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Posted - 2016.03.10 19:30:43 -
[35] - Quote
Helios Anduath wrote: In contrast to your "knowledge", I can tell you that the only time I have had socket closeds is when my ISP had issues. Other than that, my playtime has not been affected by socket closeds at all. I can also tell you that a number of other people who were having socket closed problems was due to issues under their control - for example, one guy had a wifi problem that developed recently because of a change in local RF noise and a wifi adapter starting to die.
Like I said. Usually 2 or more people are socked closed in a fleet simultaniously. Different countries, even different continets. I don't see how it is my ISPs fault. Or WIFI or whatever on my side. |
Helios Anduath
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
109
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Posted - 2016.03.10 19:38:41 -
[36] - Quote
Ni Neith wrote:Like I said. Usually 2 or more people are socked closed in a fleet simultaniously. Different countries, even different continets. I don't see how it is my ISPs fault. Or WIFI or whatever on my side.
You may be on different continents but you could quite easily share the same final routing as each other as you are comming to one common endpoint.
I will ask again incase you missed my previous requests for it - please post a screenshot of a tracert to client.eveonline.com at the bare minimum, or do you not want help? |
Zander Kumamato
The Chaos Void
48
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Posted - 2016.03.10 20:06:45 -
[37] - Quote
logging in this morning received socket closed four times in a row a couple seconds after character selection and station loads, eventually it stays connected a little while until get socket closed; repeat with the instant socket closeds after logging in over and over. Have verified cache, etc. All tracert today looks similar as below.
Microsoft Windows [Version 10.0.10586] (c) 2015 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
C:\Users\unholyrender>tracert client.eveonline.com
Tracing route to client.eveonline.com [87.237.34.202] over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms complex.unholyrender.master.grid [192.168.9.1] 2 14 ms 10 ms 10 ms cpe-72-177-0-1.austin.res.rr.com [72.177.0.1] 3 36 ms 32 ms 31 ms tge0-0-12.ausutxla02h.texas.rr.com [66.68.5.101] 4 11 ms 12 ms 17 ms agg50.ausxtxir02r.texas.rr.com [24.175.43.183] 5 21 ms 14 ms 23 ms agg39.hstqtxl301r.texas.rr.com [24.175.41.54] 6 20 ms 16 ms 13 ms bu-ether16.hstqtx0209w-bcr00.tbone.rr.com [66.109.6.108] 7 25 ms 31 ms 41 ms bu-ether12.dllstx976iw-bcr00.tbone.rr.com [66.109.6.39] 8 17 ms 19 ms 17 ms 0.ae1.pr1.dfw10.tbone.rr.com [107.14.17.234] 9 21 ms 24 ms 19 ms 66.109.9.91 10 17 ms 20 ms 27 ms ae7.cr2.dfw2.us.zip.zayo.com [64.125.20.233] 11 126 ms 132 ms 131 ms ae27.cs2.dfw2.us.eth.zayo.com [64.125.30.182] 12 134 ms 133 ms 137 ms ae5.cs2.iah1.us.eth.zayo.com [64.125.28.102] 13 130 ms 137 ms 131 ms ae3.cs2.dca2.us.eth.zayo.com [64.125.29.44] 14 143 ms 131 ms 148 ms ae0.cs1.dca2.us.eth.zayo.com [64.125.29.228] 15 129 ms 161 ms 134 ms ae5.cs1.lhr15.uk.eth.zayo.com [64.125.29.130] 16 134 ms 133 ms 131 ms ae27.mpr3.lhr3.uk.zip.zayo.com [64.125.30.235] 17 132 ms 134 ms 134 ms ae5.mpr1.lhr23.uk.zip.zayo.com [64.125.20.97] 18 129 ms 123 ms 129 ms 79.141.38.134.IPYX-126929-ZYO.zip.zayo.com [79.141.38.134] 19 124 ms 127 ms 131 ms srv202-c.ccp.cc [87.237.34.202]
Trace complete.
It'll likely work perfectly again tomorrow for another year. Such is "The Internet".
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Ni Neith
Hedion University Amarr Empire
19
|
Posted - 2016.03.10 20:22:38 -
[38] - Quote
Helios Anduath wrote:Ni Neith wrote:Like I said. Usually 2 or more people are socked closed in a fleet simultaniously. Different countries, even different continets. I don't see how it is my ISPs fault. Or WIFI or whatever on my side. You may be on different continents but you could quite easily share the same final routing as each other as you are comming to one common endpoint. I will ask again incase you missed my previous requests for it - please post a screenshot of a tracert to client.eveonline.com at the bare minimum, or do you not want help?
Here you go. |
Helios Anduath
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
109
|
Posted - 2016.03.10 20:28:03 -
[39] - Quote
Zander Kumamato wrote:logging in this morning received socket closed four times in a row a couple seconds after character selection and station loads, eventually it stays connected a little while until get socket closed; repeat with the instant socket closeds after logging in over and over. Have verified cache, etc. All tracert today looks similar as below.
What does a pingplotter to client.eveonline.com show during one of the disconnects? Pingplotter repeatedly pings each hop in your route and can show if thereis packet loss and where it is |
Helios Anduath
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
109
|
Posted - 2016.03.10 20:36:13 -
[40] - Quote
OK, that is different to the potentially problematic route that some people are using from the other thread. CCP peer with over 23 different providers so there are a lot of potential inbound routes.
If you run a pingplotter to client.eveonline.com for a while, that will show if there is any packet loss along the route. If you get a socket closed during the capture, all the better.
Playing through a VPN is a good test as it can stabilise things by sending you over a different route.
If pingplotter really doesn't show anything and a few different VPNs don't help, then it is something to open a petition about.
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hudders
Black Serpent Technologies The-Culture
29
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Posted - 2016.03.14 03:02:27 -
[41] - Quote
Okay riddle me this. If it is unreliable connection issues answer the following questions.
Why does it only happen when I am in a state of inactivity? I never DC while actively fighting, moving warping, etc.
Why does it only happen to one account and not all of them? They don't socket close together. Same computer, same ISP. How is one account more reliably connected than the other?
And finally, if CCP making a server change can negatively affect how our ISPs connect, why are they not able to make a change to positively affect it? Why not change the way this system "pings" our connection so that we socket close less. Realistically CCP cannot expect all their players with this issue to do complex troubleshooting on their own.
I am paying for a service, it shouldn't require me to spend hours troubleshooting my otherwise fine connection. If the issue cannot be resolved on their end, I will simply end service for a game that I can no longer play. I am sure there are many many players that will follow a similar path. "It's not our fault, check your ISP" isn't a good response. Especially when it's a new problem and my ISP hasn't changed, but CCP servers have. |
Helios Anduath
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
120
|
Posted - 2016.03.14 10:18:07 -
[42] - Quote
hudders wrote:Okay riddle me this. If it is unreliable connection issues answer the following questions.
Why does it only happen when I am in a state of inactivity? I never DC while actively fighting, moving warping, etc.
Why does it only happen to one account and not all of them? They don't socket close together. Same computer, same ISP. How is one account more reliably connected than the other?
Each account has it's own connection so depending on when it tries to talk to the server while idle, one client could hit an issue that passes by the next time a client tries to communicate.
Now, the fun thing, over in the other thread on this, someone is having an idle client disconnecting issue - the kicker, it only happens when he is connected to the wired port of his home router. If he connected by Wifi, his 3G hotspot or uses a VPN on the wired connection, he has no problems at all. Packet captures show a spike in TCP retransmissions and duplicate ACKs right before the socket closed (TCP retransmissions happen in the operating system's network stack, below Eve, and are a sign that some packets have not made it to the destination for some reason).
Networks can be fickle things and diagnosing them can be a complete PITA.
hudders wrote:And finally, if CCP making a server change can negatively affect how our ISPs connect, why are they not able to make a change to positively affect it? Why not change the way this system "pings" our connection so that we socket close less. Realistically CCP cannot expect all their players with this issue to do complex troubleshooting on their own.
I am paying for a service, it shouldn't require me to spend hours troubleshooting my otherwise fine connection. If the issue cannot be resolved on their end, I will simply end service for a game that I can no longer play. I am sure there are many many players that will follow a similar path. "It's not our fault, check your ISP" isn't a good response. Especially when it's a new problem and my ISP hasn't changed, but CCP servers have.
They are in the process of doing this. If you read the end of the dev blog, you would see that they are implementing a new dynamic BGP routing solution to look for better routes and that they recently ditched an ISP who was not up to par.
However, ultimately, CCP are not in control of what goes on outside of their network and because of the way the internet works, there will always be transient issues that cause problems. CCP "Pinging" your connection won't get around a packet loss issue.
Regarding users needing to do troubleshooting, welcome to tech and the troubleshooting you need to do to work out where an issue is here really is not complex and the basic diagnostics hardly take hours. It is also the type of troubleshooting that the user has to do as CCP can't do it for you. [/i]Most[/i] of the time, socket closed issues are a problem on the user's end or something out of CCP's control and while you may pay CCP for access to Eve, but you don't pay them to support your home network/ISP/the internet.
Now, you say that your connection is otherwise fine but I will bet that is from observation only and you have not actually done any diagnostics? This has been the case with a fair few of the people complaining about packet loss and it turned out to be a Wifi issue. The fun thing about network traffic is that a fair chunk of what you do every day can cope with packet loss and just be a little slower. Some services, by their nature, are just more sensitive to packet loss.
So, to troubleshooting your problem, any chance you can tell me what make/model your router is, how you connect to it (wifi/wired) and can you provide a screenshot of a Pingplotter to client.eveonline.com taken just after a socket closed event (you set it going and just play like normal until you get a socket closed). Another quick test you can carry out is to play through a VPN (someone has reported that the Avast VPN 7-day free trial with the Frankfurt server selected works quite well). |
Kinete Jenius
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
114
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Posted - 2016.03.16 00:03:04 -
[43] - Quote
hudders wrote:Okay riddle me this. If it is unreliable connection issues answer the following questions.
Why does it only happen when I am in a state of inactivity? I never DC while actively fighting, moving warping, etc.
Why does it only happen to one account and not all of them? They don't socket close together. Same computer, same ISP. How is one account more reliably connected than the other?
And finally, if CCP making a server change can negatively affect how our ISPs connect, why are they not able to make a change to positively affect it? Why not change the way this system "pings" our connection so that we socket close less. Realistically CCP cannot expect all their players with this issue to do complex troubleshooting on their own.
I am paying for a service, it shouldn't require me to spend hours troubleshooting my otherwise fine connection. If the issue cannot be resolved on their end, I will simply end service for a game that I can no longer play. I am sure there are many many players that will follow a similar path. "It's not our fault, check your ISP" isn't a good response. Especially when it's a new problem and my ISP hasn't changed, but CCP servers have. I have 12 accounts still active and I've AFKed them extensively the last few weeks. They have both sat AFK in space and in station for +6 hours at a time. I haven't had a socket reset since the big patch a while back that broke everyone's ability to connect to the server. After a couple days those socket resets stopped.
It's either your connection or something further down the line like your ISP's ISP.
As stated in other areas each account talks separately and if you lose a few packets at the wrong time for a specific client that client will socket reset while others don't. |
BrundleMeth
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
512
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Posted - 2016.03.16 00:32:36 -
[44] - Quote
Enjoy it. These days it can be the most fun in game... |
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