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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33463
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Posted - 2016.03.19 10:32:22 -
[151] - Quote
killerkeano wrote:without CFC SMA would be nothing
even bastion take the p1ss out of you guys It's sad to find out some players don't understand how you can develop real bonds with people in your coalition, or even friendships strong enough that you'd be willing to watch their back.
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33463
|
Posted - 2016.03.19 10:33:07 -
[152] - Quote
XOXO Kain Felmont what's up my n-word
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Kain Felmont
Systems High Guard SpaceMonkey's Alliance
1
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Posted - 2016.03.19 10:49:19 -
[153] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:XOXO Kain Felmont what's up my n-word
Going through withdrawals not shooting structures (RIP SBUs) Love you Rain! |
Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33463
|
Posted - 2016.03.19 10:49:23 -
[154] - Quote
today you tomorrow me etc
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CBBOMBERMAN
Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels
8
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Posted - 2016.03.19 11:15:48 -
[155] - Quote
Got to love this waterfall of tears from the CFC.
Please change the title of the thread from: "Please reduce the number of SOV timers" To "CCP please help me survive the war vs the allies"
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33463
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Posted - 2016.03.19 11:19:21 -
[156] - Quote
http://i.imgur.com/u3yl9G7.png
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33463
|
Posted - 2016.03.19 11:46:48 -
[157] - Quote
CBBOMBERMAN wrote:Got to love this waterfall of tears from the CFC.
Please change the title of the thread from: "Please reduce the number of SOV timers" To "CCP please help me survive the war vs the allies"
But isn't it nice when threads don't get flushed down the toilet every day?
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Kryptik Kai
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
19598
|
Posted - 2016.03.19 14:30:31 -
[158] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote:CBBOMBERMAN wrote:Got to love this waterfall of tears from the CFC.
Please change the title of the thread from: "Please reduce the number of SOV timers" To "CCP please help me survive the war vs the allies"
But isn't it nice when threads don't get flushed down the toilet every day? Well at least you understand that this thread started in the toilet
Honestly... largest coalition in the game by far complaining that they can't cover some timers... ffs
"Shiny.-á Lets be bad guys." -Jayne Cobb
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33464
|
Posted - 2016.03.19 14:53:12 -
[159] - Quote
I miss Querious
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Jahre Vannyn
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
1
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Posted - 2016.03.19 15:54:29 -
[160] - Quote
I need some clarification, please. You are saying that no one in the game should have the audacity to attack your positions if they are not fielding large capital fleets. That there is no room in this game for the smaller tactical ships to cause your alliance any discomfort or annoyance. That is precisely why that tactic is used against you, and will continue to be used. You believe military might through massive projection of power is going to win every encounter. You may be able to look into a couple of military operations from the past in places called Vietnam and Afghanistan to see where your philosophy will fail. War is not always large decisive victories. It is often attrition, and sapping the will of the defenders to fight. Combat tactics evolve. If you can not, or will not adapt to it, then you will eventually fall. That is not a fault in a game mechanic, that is a fault in the player. |
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33464
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Posted - 2016.03.19 17:34:30 -
[161] - Quote
Jahre Vannyn wrote:I need some clarification, please. You are saying that no one in the game should have the audacity to attack your positions if they are not fielding large capital fleets. That there is no room in this game for the smaller tactical ships to cause your alliance any discomfort or annoyance. That is precisely why that tactic is used against you, and will continue to be used. You believe military might through massive projection of power is going to win every encounter. You may be able to look into a couple of military operations from the past in places called Vietnam and Afghanistan to see where your philosophy will fail. War is not always large decisive victories. It is often attrition, and sapping the will of the defenders to fight. Combat tactics evolve. If you can not, or will not adapt to it, then you will eventually fall. That is not a fault in a game mechanic, that is a fault in the player. :wtc:
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33471
|
Posted - 2016.03.19 17:35:39 -
[162] - Quote
That's all narrative that is in your head from other sources, not me.
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Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
25
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Posted - 2016.03.20 01:49:13 -
[163] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Quote:What the hell are you complaining about? The same mechanic now being an official part of the game. Boredom based mechanics are always bad for games as they are designed for entertainment. Yes, people use whatever is available to win, but the general idea is that games move away from mechanics which reduce player entertainment towards ones that improve it.
you might not enjoy it but so far in both cloud ring and fade i'm having fun with it. granted i don't own sov or live in sov but at the same time. three days of actual playing with timers three days of big fights. Multiple fleets to fight and have fun agaisnt. caps and suppercaps being thrown around. So far i think this is producing more action then has happened in a long time. the attacker if they don't already own sov can always choose to show up or not show up. occupancy based sov would have complaints against it as well. No system is going to be perfect but the defender is always at the mercy of the attacker does the attacker want to fight that day yes or no. does the attacker fell like ganking a freighter today yes or no. does an attack fell like droping caps today yes or no. if the attacker dosn't fell like it they dont have to as a defender you have to respond to what an attacker does. same goes for all parts of space. |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7419
|
Posted - 2016.03.20 02:13:23 -
[164] - Quote
Xeno Szenn wrote:you might not enjoy it but so far in both cloud ring and fade i'm having fun with it. But only because it allows you to complete your goals with ease. It's not the mechanic so much as the results. If they had a mechanic that allowed you to press a button and instantly gain 1b isk which you could repeat 20 times a second for eternity, it'd be fun in the way that you're gaining isk but boring in the way that you're just clicking a button repeatedly. In this case, it's a mining laser on a structure.
Xeno Szenn wrote:No system is going to be perfect but the defender is always at the mercy of the attacker does the attacker want to fight that day yes or no. Exactly, but the attacker has to put nothing on the line, while the defender has absolutely everything to lose. How can you possibly not see the imbalance there?
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Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
25
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Posted - 2016.03.20 03:28:34 -
[165] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Xeno Szenn wrote:you might not enjoy it but so far in both cloud ring and fade i'm having fun with it. But only because it allows you to complete your goals with ease. It's not the mechanic so much as the results. If they had a mechanic that allowed you to press a button and instantly gain 1b isk which you could repeat 20 times a second for eternity, it'd be fun in the way that you're gaining isk but boring in the way that you're just clicking a button repeatedly. In this case, it's a mining laser on a structure. Xeno Szenn wrote:No system is going to be perfect but the defender is always at the mercy of the attacker does the attacker want to fight that day yes or no. Exactly, but the attacker has to put nothing on the line, while the defender has absolutely everything to lose. How can you possibly not see the imbalance there?
it happens in all areas of space not seeing how null is any different. I have no goals i just fight my only motivation is fighting and i don't care who i'm fighting so for me it will never realy matter what sov mechanic it is. sov wanding is no different then station grinding. shooting a pos is no different then entosising. It's alll prety much the same. As for it being imbalanced i head no one saying it was imblanced in provi or elsewhere and the general blueballl mechanic is something that has been used forever so part of the game at this point.
with occupancy sov as full occupancy they should remove i hubs and tcu's that way whoever lives there owns it. Granted then anyone can dock anywhere but if you live in an area and are strong enough then nuets in local or station isn't an issue you just kill them. I honestly have no skin in the game for sov or for this supposed big war thats everyones talking about. The main issues i see with fozzie sov is both sides run more then they fight again it's a part of the game and something i do as well. timers arew the only reason people seem to fight so if you take them away then there would be no fights. Not once have i seen you guys engage unless a timer or cap was on the line. granted if the fights not to my liking i don't fight either so we need someway of forcing fights. |
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
316
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Posted - 2016.03.20 04:58:45 -
[166] - Quote
So your complaining that sov timers need to be shorted because you are employed....
lets flip this....
Sov timers get shortened and expire while you and the rest of the alliance are asleep/work/school whatever, you lose large amounts of space/pos due to timers being shorter and are forced out of null due to loss of sov
The Sov timers aren't there to benefit your short attention span or because you only have a few hours to play.
it allows enemy fleets to respond if they do respond, allows people to own sov that do have a life and not just benefit those that don't.
if you don't like sov timers don't shoot things to just wait around
"Sarcasm is the Recourse of a weak mind." -Dr. Smith
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7419
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Posted - 2016.03.20 12:09:31 -
[167] - Quote
Xeno Szenn wrote:shooting a pos is no different then entosising. Sure it is. Taking sov as a solo player should not be possible, and to see it through, generally isn't. But sov wanding only allows one person to contribute while everyone else just sits there and waits. MMOs that have only one player able to perform a task aren;t very MMO -like.
Xeno Szenn wrote:As for it being imbalanced i head no one saying it was imblanced in provi or elsewhere and the general blueballl mechanic is something that has been used forever so part of the game at this point. Provi was proof of this. Split groups being attacked by bother the resident and every other group trying to dogpile in to get them out and still over half the timers trashed in 3 days. Now the mechanics are understood it would be even worse the next time round and the only thing holding people back is the inability to deploy without giving up your own sov. Blueball mechanics have always been bad, but people do what they can to win. People expect CCP to close those gaps though, not to promote them into actual mechanics.
Xeno Szenn wrote:with occupancy sov as full occupancy they should remove i hubs and tcu's that way whoever lives there owns it. Granted then anyone can dock anywhere but if you live in an area and are strong enough then nuets in local or station isn't an issue you just kill them. Yup, those structures would not really be needed. Stations would be owned and controlled by whoever owned the system containing them, though I full expect stations to get scrapped in favour of citadels in the long run, in which case they can be put anywhere anyway.
Xeno Szenn wrote:The main issues i see with fozzie sov is both sides run more then they fight again it's a part of the game and something i do as well. timers arew the only reason people seem to fight so if you take them away then there would be no fights. Not once have i seen you guys engage unless a timer or cap was on the line. granted if the fights not to my liking i don't fight either so we need someway of forcing fights. That's going to be the case under any mehcnaic. Forcing fights isn't a good idea espeically in game designed to be sandbox, so what they need to do is give a reason to fight strong enugh to get both sides to do it. Defenders have to fight timers to save their space, so that's one side of it, but attackers have no reason to fight, absolutely nothing on the line, so they can just up and run at any moment. That's what needs to be fixed, both sides should have a reason to fight.
Full occupancy sov does the opposite though, it gives you nothing if you run and loses you nothing if the opposign side runs, so in order for an attacker to progress they would have to use the system and in order for a defender to keep their system so would they, which promotes organic fights.
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33478
|
Posted - 2016.03.20 12:34:22 -
[168] - Quote
Agondray wrote:So your complaining that sov timers need to be shorted because you are employed....
lets flip this....
Sov timers get shortened and expire while you and the rest of the alliance are asleep/work/school whatever, you lose large amounts of space/pos due to timers being shorter and are forced out of null due to loss of sov
The Sov timers aren't there to benefit your short attention span or because you only have a few hours to play.
it allows enemy fleets to respond if they do respond, allows people to own sov that do have a life and not just benefit those that don't.
if you don't like sov timers don't shoot things to just wait around Ignore OP, they haven't accepted that you pick between a job or sov, and you don't get to have both.
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Kryptik Kai
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
19618
|
Posted - 2016.03.20 12:46:27 -
[169] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote: Ignore OP, they haven't accepted that you pick between a job or sov, and you don't get to have both.
Again implying that the largest coalition in the game can't find the players to cover timers
"Shiny.-á Lets be bad guys." -Jayne Cobb
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CBBOMBERMAN
Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels
9
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Posted - 2016.03.20 12:55:40 -
[170] - Quote
Rain6637 wrote: Ignore OP, they haven't accepted that you pick between a job or sov, and you don't get to have both.
lol. Really this is what the crying has come to? If you cant cover the timezone, switch the timezone to a time where numbers are higher. See, I fix it for you. Otherwise drop sov on systems you clearly cant defend cos dont have the bodies and concentrate on the ones you can. EZ
You guys are spreading yourselves too thin and on top of that, you are been attacked by many different entities united to bring you down. That the key too all your troubles. |
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Rain6637
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
33478
|
Posted - 2016.03.20 14:02:25 -
[171] - Quote
http://i.imgur.com/FEtD4LP.png
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Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
25
|
Posted - 2016.03.20 18:18:35 -
[172] - Quote
I would like to point out that this thread seems to have sparked the most discussion about game mechanics and conflict generators. That i've seen and were actual able to have a discussion here over it that alone makes fozzie sov worth it before if you tried to discuss anything it got span as propaganda at least here we cana ctual talk about it.
The idea of having sov or having a job is kind of a mute point as well. Either you have the people to defend and can rotate through them or you dont. Anyone here do almra clock ops and the like it the smae principle. The idea of living out of a citadel over a station is great i just wish people loist everything if they died so there was a far greater risk associated with how powerful they are looking at being form the test numbers ive seen.
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Aiwha
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
1003
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Posted - 2016.03.20 18:37:05 -
[173] - Quote
CFC weaponized boredom, so CCP made the mechanics boredom based. Now the CFC are complaining that their enemies are using boredom.
Is bootiful.
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
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Speig Yotosala
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
0
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Posted - 2016.03.21 06:40:22 -
[174] - Quote
Gloom skull Dethahal wrote:I will add my voice to the many. Please, please reduce the number of sov vulnerability timers. Every day we log in, that's all we do is defend space. There's no time for anything else. I work and have a family life to enjoy.
At least with a paying job you get two days off. Take these vulnerability timers down to 3 days a week.
You'd developers must think there are hundreds of thousands of people playing this game. That or that we're all unemployed with nothing better to do. Reduce the timers for goodness sake.
Thanks
To the OP, Gloom,
I consider you a friend. We shared some time in a previous corp, and I remember you as being a good person, someone I respect.
It is unfortunate that you aren't having fun reacting to the timers. The fight a few nights ago where we succeeded in destroying the I-hub was inceredibly fun for us. The newbro in the worm with T1 drones couldn't break my entosising caracal, and I couldn't catch him with a scram, but he did drive me off the node. I thought it was awesome of him to try anyway, and he did stop me from completing the node timer. It was a blast.
But your problem isn't with the developers at CCP and the sov timers. You are caught up in an unfortunate series of events where your leadership pissed off someone with lots of isk. Blood started spilling into the waters of Fade, and this attracted the sharks. Now the sharks are circling. Your problem is that its too hard to fish with all the sharks swimming around.
The solution is easy. Its time to move on to better fishing. As long as the bleeding continues, the sharks will keep circling. SMA has been bleeding for a few weeks now. Do you really want to spend your EVE time on a sinking ship in shark infested waters? |
Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7420
|
Posted - 2016.03.21 08:32:10 -
[175] - Quote
The problem kinda is with the developers. SMA or not, whatever alliance you are in, sov involves watching one guy firing a mining laser at a structure. The only way to escape that is not to bother with sov, which tells me the sov mechanic is broken since game mechanics are supposed to be designed to be entertaining.
As for shark infested, it would be better if that were the case as they would be less likely to run away when people show up for fights. We have basically no chance of losing sov, since whether someone with isk was pissed off or not, to take sov the attacker have to see the timers through. They don't which is basically the whole problem. Attackers spend nothing half contesting the sov then running away. They don't actually want sov since they are just fighting for the e-honor of a guaranteed RMTer anyway, so they don't have to commit to the fight. Defenders on the other had have to commit every time.
At the end of the day though CCP know it's rubbish which is why they've already scrapped it for citadels, we likely just have to bear with bad mechanics until citadels are ready to replace them.
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Kinis Deren
StarHunt Mordus Angels
477
|
Posted - 2016.03.21 10:52:59 -
[176] - Quote
Serious question to OP: Why don't you exercise some free will and decline to join the defence fleet for a system you don't live in & possibly have never visited?
Just say no and do what you enjoy doing. The answer to your problem is in your hands & not CCP's. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders
4333
|
Posted - 2016.03.21 11:04:19 -
[177] - Quote
How about active entosis causing ZERO speed, like a cyno or a seige module?
A single frigate can still lazor, but can't run away while doing it. Don't really understand why running away should even be an option when you're contesting something that -should- be meaningful, such as SOV.
IIRC, the dev's objective was to award SOV to the side that 'holds the field'. You can't hold the field if you run away, can you?
Probably this idea has been discussed several times: if it's bad, can someone tell me why?
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Lucas Kell
Internet Terrorists SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7421
|
Posted - 2016.03.21 11:16:58 -
[178] - Quote
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:How about active entosis causing ZERO speed, like a cyno or a seige module?
A single frigate can still lazor, but can't run away while doing it. Don't really understand why running away should even be an option when you're contesting something that -should- be meaningful, such as SOV.
IIRC, the dev's objective was to award SOV to the side that 'holds the field'. You can't hold the field if you run away, can you?
Probably this idea has been discussed several times: if it's bad, can someone tell me why? I don't think it's so much that it's a bad idea, it's just it's trying to find ways around it being generally broken at a fundamental level. You can polish a turd all you want but at the end of the day it's still a turd.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
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Xeno Szenn
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
25
|
Posted - 2016.03.21 19:13:46 -
[179] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:The problem kinda is with the developers. SMA or not, whatever alliance you are in, sov involves watching one guy firing a mining laser at a structure. The only way to escape that is not to bother with sov, which tells me the sov mechanic is broken since game mechanics are supposed to be designed to be entertaining.
As for shark infested, it would be better if that were the case as they would be less likely to run away when people show up for fights. We have basically no chance of losing sov, since whether someone with isk was pissed off or not, to take sov the attacker have to see the timers through. They don't which is basically the whole problem. Attackers spend nothing half contesting the sov then running away. They don't actually want sov since they are just fighting for the e-honor of a guaranteed RMTer anyway, so they don't have to commit to the fight. Defenders on the other had have to commit every time.
At the end of the day though CCP know it's rubbish which is why they've already scrapped it for citadels, we likely just have to bear with bad mechanics until citadels are ready to replace them.
you keep saying an rmter and it keeps getting thrown around but no one offers prof that this is the case. The spin towards this even being a war at this point is also something that doesnGÇÖt aid the conversation on sov mechanics in general. From your point of view, IGÇÖm sure it feels like a siege or a war. From my point of view, itGÇÖs just content and ways to get the fights we want. We win some we lose some but itGÇÖs just a fight. Nothing any more meaningful then that to me. Your no different than fighting snuff in low sec or anyone else.
You keep saying the attacker should commit and IGÇÖll quote the Mattanis fireside chat last night GÇ£we owe you nothingGÇ¥. So the question has to be raised why does the attacker owe you anything? If both sides owe the other nothing then any use of the mechanics available to them is encouraged and smart to do. The great thing about eve and the worst thing about eve is the meta game. Ever mechanic has to balance both the in game numbers and the meta game. DonGÇÖt get me wrong any group that says they donGÇÖt play the meta game knowingly or unknowingly is delusional at best. I like your idea of citadels being the core of sov if when they were destroyed everything was lost like it would be in wormholes. That system there would be the crux of risk to reward for me because then the attacker has to defend or they lose everything but they get to set the times when they defend. Can that work in a system without etnosis, I hub, tcus, or even your name on the map they could remove all of that fairly easily. And it could be a better system again I wouldnGÇÖt mind fighting in tidi every fleet and having massive fights ever3ytime I log in. I think instead of having a spin zone or propaganda and IGÇÖm sure my words are being thought of as propaganda as well we need an honest discussion of game mechanics. No matter what mechanics they introduce its going to hurt someone and we have to adapt to it.
As for fighting back against entosis ships it takes a warmup cycle and then another cycle to entosis so lets say 10 minutes worst case an hour best cases. If you have dudes in those systems during the window they can hunt down and destroy the entsoiserGÇÖs. Kitting is always going to be a part of the game and something that is smart for small groups to do. Siegefleet is also something that fits into this category. Weponized boredom and fighting smart is something they canGÇÖt remove form the game. Unless they make wow style battlefields if fighting gains, you nothing why commit for either side.
I do think your occupancy sov idea has some merit and whoever can do x,y,and z while having the strength to keep people from docking there owns it. Make sov almost like npc null and you have to defend your stations and use your space. It gives everyone the ability to attack and everyone the ability to live in their space.
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2708
|
Posted - 2016.03.21 19:32:24 -
[180] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:CFC weaponized boredom, so CCP made the mechanics boredom based. Now the CFC are complaining that their enemies are using boredom.
Is bootiful.
The real stupid part is that the game goal steered many player toward this. No limit on engagement number leads to blobbing. Loss being meaningful leads to blueballing if you don't think you will win. Some of the task required to maintain an empire being underwhelming on the fun factor leads to burnout being an effective strategy.
Combine all of that together and you somehow gets the most effective strategy to "win" at this game.
Entossing nodes is just a replacement for repping/grinding structures at the end of a timer we had before. Who really loved repping structures before? Probably the ones who currently don't mind defensive entosis fleet because it's the same thing at the end of the day. You activate a module on a single target with auto-repeat until it's marker is full. You do this with a fleet covering you and the other side can, at their leisure, decide if they engage or just let the other side do the boring work. You can also repeat this cycle over and over again pretty much forcing the other side into boring work a nearly infinite time.
At the end of the day, we changed system to accomplish the exact same thing. We are still shooting/repping "flags". |
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