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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
IntegralHellsing
Gallente The Raven Warriors
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Posted - 2007.02.09 20:54:00 -
[61]
ok... just 1 thing. I won't shout 'UNBAN KUGUTSUSMEN' but surely it shows how CCP tried to cover its mess at first.
i'd say CCP's initial response was VERY POOR.
ps. Don't need to remove the BPO now. what's the point anyway. instead, punish the ones that are responsible. we don't need this type of crap happening again. ------------------------------
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Tea Spoon
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.02.09 20:54:00 -
[62]
Just removing the BPO's is a very lenient punishment, especially as the ones having had the benefit of having them all this time have a chance of getting them back. Both t20 and Hellmar hope very much this will be the end of this affair but I doubt that is the case.
By handing out items of such vast importance in the game the balance has been greatly disturbed, and the actions taken do very little to rectify this. I stand a good chance of being blown up in the near future by the Spike L ammo that exists only because of the fraudulent actions taken in the past and any losses caused by this should be petitionable as an exploit.
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Sathynos
Caldari Pink Bunnies C0VEN
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Posted - 2007.02.09 20:54:00 -
[63]
Finally, some courage on your part. But chatlogs on kugnusomething blog, however obtained in a bad manner, seem true and they show you (or oder dev, dont remember) fed them info they wouldn't otherwise had. Thas is imho much worse than bpos. And hiwever I recogize you coming forward and admitting obtaining bpo's in unsportly manner, I frankly do not believe all of the remaining chat logs were forged. I still believe there were much worse thins done than those bpos.
Now, since you admitted, tell me please what will be done not to bpos, but with profits gained from having them and stuff made. -- "Say yes to pron on Concord billboards" campaing. Eve mercenaries portal: http://www.eve-mercs.com |
Amiable Quinn
Minmatar Lasleinur Production
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Posted - 2007.02.09 20:55:00 -
[64]
Wow.
T20 I know it must not have been easy to write that blog, and I know you must be feeling terrible right now, but I think admitting what happened is good for the game and good for you. You have my respect for that.
CCP - We need to know the answers to the following questions because your answers thus far have been inadequate:
1. How many CCP employees play EvE?
2. How many are in 0.0 allinaces?
3. What is the distribution of main accounts among CCP employees? (In other words are their 20 devs in BoB and 1 alt in LV?)
4. How will you assure us that something like this NEVER happens again?
5. What about the numerous other allegations (including account sharing and other EULA violations)?
In addition:
All dev characters must leave any 0.0 alliance now.
BoB - You guys look like suckers. Especially Rod Blaine and Avon. Nothing personal but you all got on these boards and derided and insulted anyone who claimed these charges had veracity. You owe this community an apology as well.
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Traxio Nacho
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.02.09 20:55:00 -
[65]
Originally by: aggro the bpo returns is a start.
but the money made from that which must be billions. will this be returned. i very much doubt it. so the damage has been done.
what is keiron answer to this question
I know it wasn't right him spawning the BPO's and not condoning it but other than the sabre BPO the ammo BPO isk wise is so low I doubt all of them put together made no more than afew hundred mil if that.
Also if they we're made to be used and none we're sold it would be difficult to get the isk back?
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aggro
Minmatar Black Lance Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.02.09 20:56:00 -
[66]
it has now been proved that BOB are cheaters, not all but the leaders knew about this.
the CEOS of these corps need to held to account. So now everything bob has achieved is so devalued i would be ashamed to be in said alliance.
So what is going to be done on this
Where there is trouble you will always find AGGRO |
Emily Spankratchet
Minmatar Pragmatics
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Posted - 2007.02.09 20:56:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Emily Spankratchet on 09/02/2007 20:53:27
Right, so they've investigated. It's a bit fuzzy what's happening to t20. They've put in place regular audits to try and stop this happening again.
I'm happy with that. It's not ideal - how can anything about this be ideal now it's been blown up so big - but it's a step in the right direction.
All those of you whose faith in CCP is shattered and who could never consider playing again, please cancel your accounts. Form an orderly queue as you leave the game. The rest of us can try and get on with our in-game lives. The FBI are not going to investigate, and even if they did I suspect that some people wouldn't believe their findings.
Edit: And I've got one of those BPOs and it's crap. Why spawn that one t20? Are you mad?
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FireFoxx80
Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.02.09 20:56:00 -
[68]
So, due to kieron's first post does that mean that this would have been 'quietly ignored' if Kug hadn't uncovered it, and the community hadn't been so passionate? Is it in fact possible for a Dev to cover their tracks, seeing as this wasn't detected at the time (nor during the IA investigation); and if so, how much more has been missed?
What about BoB? Whilst 'prior knowledge' cannot be proved at all, several T2 BPO's for 6 months have a definitely secondary impact on the amount of money and progress an alliance can make. Are these effects to go unbalanced? After all, CCP puts players accounts into negative ISK if they have gained that ISK through underhand means.
Whilst I can see Devs need to play this game, I agree with the suggestions that they need their hands 'cut off' to some degree. Can CCP not implement a higher level of logging on employee player characters?
I hope this investigation has not ended, and that details will still be released to the community. As it stands, I suspect that unfortunatly a lot of people will want t20's head for this, and an apology via DevBlog will not heal things.
What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass! |
Vincent S
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Posted - 2007.02.09 20:56:00 -
[69]
You could start by unbanning Kugutsmen and personally and publicly apologizing to him. Had he not released this information, you would have done everything in your power to ban all whistleblowers to cover up the incident, just like you sweep these forums of anything at all that casts you in a bad light. Furthermore I think you should be ashamed of yourself for having so bad control over the T2 lottery that a developer can just spawn BPOs for his friends, and one of the most powerful alliances at that. The only appropriate action here is to fire T20 and punish everyone in BoB who knew about this severely.
Also, if you're banning Kugutsmen, I assume Molle will be next since he also posted personal information. If not, you have learned nothing and you are still extremely biased. |
DDaisy
VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.02.09 20:57:00 -
[70]
Damage Limitation. As for without knowledge from fellow co-workers or alliance members? Tragically the damage was done the day you carried out these actions. And as for the "tinfoil hats" trolling from people defending you? You should be ashamed of yourself. This is not just about allegations of cheating, abuse of EULAs or anything else on that level. This is about thousands of people, THOUSANDS! paying hard earned money to play a game that is essential corrupt at its core. My job in real life is to help people with disabilities to return to work, perhaps I should try to con them out of some of their wages in the hope that "they'll never know".
Truly disgusted.
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Krugerrand
0utbreak
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Posted - 2007.02.09 20:57:00 -
[71]
Seriously, while it shows CCP up shouting that these BPOS have "shifted the balance" is a bunch of crap.
BoB make enough ISK on their POS network which far surpasses income from them, most of the production would be kept in-alliance and I'm positive BoB would have purchased those BPOs if they hadn't got them by these means.
Also removing the ISK would be hard since the money trail would be extremely long.
I understand its a breach of trust but so far its still a minor incident, if more is uncovered, maybe it will change.
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Xendie
Away Humping Keyboard
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Posted - 2007.02.09 20:57:00 -
[72]
personally i dont think he should be kicked from his job but rather have a complete ban on playing eve-online with anything other then a Dev tag on him.
also there was more BPO's that he gave away and now when the cat is out of the bag and another item of kugutsumens list has been verified dont you Devs think its time to put a microscope on atleast all members and ex members of RKK?
we saw the smoke and you confirmed the fire now, how about trying to put out the flames properly also.
start with banning a certain person from said alliance who posted "REAL LIFE" name and workplace of another person on these very forums.
i sure know that if i had done that i would have been permabanned in a heartbeat, why isnt he and all his characters permabanned?
equal moderation for everyone.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
Quote: jake sisko > its f-e's bob dev alt making lag
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Nullity
Gallente
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Posted - 2007.02.09 20:57:00 -
[73]
Is there a reason why the people who willingly accepted "spawned" BPOs haven't been banned? I think that's just as bad as someone spawning them.
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Niaski Zalani
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.02.09 20:59:00 -
[74]
Originally by: ZaKma While t20 did something he shouldn't have done, I really hope he doesn't get fired. He's been with the community for a long time.
It's not like the BPO's made some huge difference in terms of isk or advantage or anything. It's wrong of course, but nothing staggering.
As from the blog:
Quote:
... and the non-negotiable penalty of employment termination upon conviction of such acts ...
Non-negotiable. Sorry to see someone lose their job, but t20 should be out on his ass. yarr. |
Lars Erlkonig
Caldari Ars Caelestis Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.09 20:59:00 -
[75]
and what is going to happen to t20?
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Caliwyrm O'Libr
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Posted - 2007.02.09 20:59:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Caliwyrm O''Libr on 09/02/2007 20:58:21 1) No CCP employee should ever be allowed to stay in the same corp for over 6 months (leads to favoritism) 2) No CCP employee should ever be allowed to accept a leadership position in ANY corp/alliance (DEFINATELY a conflict of interest) 3) No CCP employee should ever directly compete with a paying customer outside of PvP (That means no T2 BPOs of ANY kind of ANY legitamicy, no market fixing, no reselling rare items for profit, etc) 4) Any CCP employee that witnesses his current mates doing anything wrong should report it (ie the Cynonet account sharing)
Kugut should be unbanned. If Kugut was banned for giving out personal info on another player/dev then CCP needs to ban people like Molle who gave out Kugut's RL info. If Kugut ws banned for out of game actions.. well, that just opens a can of worms the size of Wyoming..
Added:
For the record I also highly suggest you keep a thread open for people to vent their anger and frustration in the next time this happens (don't laugh, this is, what, the 3rd confirmed time?). People who are angry and frustrated tend to get outright HOSTILE when they're punished on top of it for posting in other threads. =======
Talk is cheap because supply always outweighs demand.. |
Michelle Mathers
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:00:00 -
[77]
I'm not very happy about the accusation that a GM was possibly scouting a system that Bob plans to attack.. Hopefully that can be answered VERY quickly as that has the possibility to become a VERY big issue (or at least have the appearance of STILL ongoing abuse of power)
Please, continue to address ALL the allegations presented. While I don't condone what kugutsumen did, as stated before, MANY people have posted information from outside sources *ASCN WAR* with impunity! (or at least, those posts were NOT taken down by ISD/CCP, while Kugutsumen's were) Maybe a statment that Kugutsumen's account will either be re-instated, or that the Ban was for some other infraction that he committed outside of the Dev Misconduct accusations..
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Perianwyr
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:00:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Perianwyr on 09/02/2007 20:59:20 t20, get the **** out.
Good God. Haven't you ever heard of GM Darwin?
"What do you mean I can't sell castle deeds I create on Ebay?" - GM Darwin circa 1999
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NereSky
Gallente Rage of Angels Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:01:00 -
[79]
After reading the blogs i agree on a personnel note to put this behind us now , as i dont want to see this scar damage the game, but my faith in CCP has been badley shaken, BoB ,well, you will always be more remembered by this than for any other reason, there will always be doubt that the other allegations were false , but now we will never know and have to trust that a full investigation did in fact clear BoB from the other allegations. t20 your apology is accepted by me even though there are still many question marks hanging over this sorry affair im willing to put this behind me for the sake of the game.
Now lets just get on with the Game please.
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Ben Hump
Minmatar The Kru
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:01:00 -
[80]
Please try and remain constructive - Serathu ([email protected])
May contain traces of irony, period and enter do not belong on my keyboard "Yes Mister Tristan"
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aggro
Minmatar Black Lance Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:01:00 -
[81]
Edited by: aggro on 09/02/2007 20:58:31 why have you not banned the people who profited from this.
you ban the guy who exposed this.
SORRY CCP YOU HAVE MADE THE WRONG DECISION ON THIS ONE
Where there is trouble you will always find AGGRO |
Dramaticus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:02:00 -
[82]
You have addressed my concerns and completely verified them.
You have no ability, let alone intention, of policing your employees and their ingame actions. It took the actions of a third party to uncover them, and that was only addressed when you couldn't make it just all go away. That person now sits banned from EVE for actions EXPLICITLY not covered under the EULA and TOS, while another numerous individuals connected to this scandal who have violated the EULA and TOS sit here reaping the benefits. Your ingame events are riddled with fraud and your GM express not only favoritism but a distinct lack of knowledge concerning the game.
In short, you've done nothing except confirm what we already knew.
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FireFoxx80
Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:02:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Traxio Nacho I know it wasn't right him spawning the BPO's and not condoning it but other than the sabre BPO the ammo BPO isk wise is so low I doubt all of them put together made no more than afew hundred mil if that.
Also if they we're made to be used and none we're sold it would be difficult to get the isk back?
I guess CCP can lookup the number of runs a BPO has been used for, and fine BoB for that amount. Though it is difficult to judge the 'value' of T2 stuff, since it;s mostly a seller's market.
The alternative is to remove an equal number of existing items (that have been created) from BoB's pilots. If 20 Sabre's have been made, remove those 20 Sabre's from hangars if they exist.
Of course, this creates a secondary paper trail of the minerals and components that BoB legitimately put into their manufacture.
It's going to be a nightmare.
It think also, aside from the 'few hundred mill', that's not the point. Taking it to the n'th degree, imagine if an alliance got hold of a Titan that it shouldn't have. Such a ship could cause massive amounts of collateral damage to enemies that wouldnt have been possible without said Titan. It could even effectively destroy an alliance. So the 'lost ISK' goes far beyond any ships that have been created.
And I suspect someone trying to work out the financial loss to other players from BoB's illigitimate will effectively be impossible.
So, the BPO buttefly flexed its wings, and through chaos theory caused tidal waves thousands of miles away.
What I do the rest of the time - Vote for a Jita bypass! |
Ohmite
Minmatar Black Lance Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:03:00 -
[84]
Can you answer this question
Why are you punishing the whistleblower but not the people within BOB who knew what they were doing is wrong and who have profited from t20 actions
It seems you are punishing the wrong people, this is what most of eve are unhappy about, punish the people who have done wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Azerrad InExile
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:03:00 -
[85]
Originally by: t20 Blog Sadly enough, the allegation regarding unlawfully obtained blueprints are, in my case, true.
Returning the BPOs is a good start. However, the issue remains of any isk that would have been generated via these ill-gottent BPOs. At the very least, BoB should have to payback a percentage of the profits these BPOs would be expected to produce over the time they were in BoB's possesion.
Regarding t20s future, he should AT THE VERY LEAST be banned from playing the game for an extended period (i.e. any player accounts he may have now and he should not be allowed to create any new accounts). His future with CCP should also be seriously considered going forward.
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Inky Blackness
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:03:00 -
[86]
crappy bpo's except for the sabre , who cares, like a major alliance like bob or ascn or d2 prob have multiple copies of most t2 bpo's through their members, anyone who thinks that leads to a particular advantage should have their heads examined, actually it's much better to have em as solo player..
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Liet Traep
Minmatar Black Lance Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:03:00 -
[87]
I'm sorry that the allegations are true but not suprised. I think t20 should be disciplined for his misconduct. I don't believe fired though. But what about the isk made from the bpo's? And what of the players who knew he was a dev and took those bpo's? I consider that cheating and think they should be banned.
And what about the whistleblower? Even though he had to hack RKK's accounts to do it he proved they were cheating when CCP was unwilling and unable to do the same. He has done Eve and CCP a great favour. he should get his accounts back and maybe a nifty statue in jita for him. You ban the guy who uncovers cheating and misconduct and not ban the cheaters themselves. I think CCP has more work to do.
As for BoB. Some of you are old friends of mine and some of you I frankly have less warm feelings about. But it's sad this happens. Higher ups in your alliance have been caught cheating. Who knows how many of your impressive accomplishments are tainted. We'll never know and this cloud may hang on your alliance for some time. For those innocent of cheating I'm sorry. For those who have been cheating all along I'm waiting for you to get a good swift kicking.
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DDaisy
VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:03:00 -
[88]
Hacking and all that crap is really lame tbh. But the fact that it seems to have been the only way to out this, is indicative of how deep this went. As for divulging someone's rl info on the forums? Don't care who it was they should no longer be playing this game.....period. That is non negotiable.
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Waagaa Ktlehr
Amarr Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:04:00 -
[89]
Edited by: Waagaa Ktlehr on 09/02/2007 21:01:24 Sad to see how human nature can sometimes let us do wrong stuff, putting your job on the line for a stupid little advantage in a damn game ffs :(
On those people going: "OMG! Super much billions of ISK profits!"...
Sabre BPO is the only one of those that makes a decent profit, but it nowhere near the likes of Ballistic Control II, Cerberus, Nighthawk, etc.
You might be talking maybe 400m / week tops, maybe a lot to a goon, but nothing in the larger scale of things. Yes, BDCI owns a Sabre BPO. -
- One ship to jam them all, one ship to damp them. One ship to suck them dry and in the dark void gank them. |
Ace Frehley
Minmatar Black Lance Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:04:00 -
[90]
Oki, honestly
You can repair the damage by: Give all damn corps in eve 12 t2 bpo each 1 dev at maximum per alliance, better control. 1 cant cheat, 2 or more can cover up for each other. I heard rumors that Sir molle posted kugs real name.. will we know sir molle¦s real name etc etc? Just woundering, btw how you can repair this huge damage ccp got? Even I know some basic human behavior that ccp dident apperntly know, and I¦m not near Einsteins IQ.. I¦m really dissepointed
Girljerms is more lethal then a fleet of 1000 Tempests Yeah I¦m nude, I¦m a swede and I¦m armed with bad jokes
[url="http://www. |
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