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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Kerbear
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:44:00 -
[211]
funny how all the bpo are crap other than the sabre have lost faith in the game alot now and have been playing for a very long time and that guy should be sacked char deleted and isk tooken from the plp making it and i always thought bob where good seems they have got where they are through cheaten just think with a dev on ur side u can achive what u want
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Lucre
STK Scientific
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:44:00 -
[212]
Whoa - just realised something.
CCP knew about this last June. Okay, so they decided not to sack T20 on the spot which is almost certainly the wrong decision looking from outside but leave that aside for a moment.
If I read this correctly, CCP knew those bpo's were fraudulently obtained but LEFT THEM IN THE GAME UNTIL NOW?
One cheating dev, well, that's an individual and these things happen. What concerns me is letting his cheats stay in the game then, and trying to cover up the problem now. Well, that and the sheer hypocrisy of banning Kug for blowing the whistle on something you already knew had happened.
Also interesting that this "special unit" started, ooh, 4 weeks ago maybe? Would that be coincidental timing I wonder? |
Kerdrak
Amarr 3B Legio IX Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:44:00 -
[213]
Originally by: t20
As you might have read and heard, there were recently some allegations posted regarding developer misconduct that basically come down to:
* Developers helping (an) alliance(s) gain information they otherwise would not have. * Developers having an unfair advantage of game mechanics. * Developers helping themselves acquire goods in-game by means of in-house tools, otherwise not available to regular players.
All allegations mentioned above are untrue, except one.
No, all points are true but you only have declared one because log exists :). Point 1 is logically true... ________________________________________ First atheist amarr on EVE
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Sinlare
Gallente Sinlare Auditorium
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:45:00 -
[214]
Originally by: Niaski Zalani
Originally by: Ordo Lucius It is a ******* GAME!!!
To call for someone to lose thier JOB (you know, the think us normal people have?) over some bloody blueprints (i dont give a **** how much they were worth) is absolutely insane. They guy messed with policy, "misconduct" blah blah, but lets face facts, who the hell got hurt by this in real life? Anyone?
It's not about the BPO's as in their value. It's in the inherent trust we, as players, place in CCP to provide for us a game that we enjoy. We pay CCP for that. If CCP then turns around and breaks the trust, that pretty much comes down to us players being scammed by the very entity we pay a monthly fee.
I don't know where you're from, but I doubt you enjoy paying $15 every month to someone who might, or might not, scam you. When the trust is gone, there's something seriously wrong.
CCP needs to tread very carefully right now.
I certainly wont ever trust your company, supporting illegal actions. succes ermee. |
NATMav
F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:46:00 -
[215]
How *not* to satisfy your customers.
1. Delete and ban anyone making accusations of wrongdoing
2. Deny deny deny
3. Launch an "investigation" after the community erupts into outcry
4. Close investigation, admit to one small insignificant problem
5. Deny deny deny
6. Lock and/or delete further discussion of the accusations
7. Reopen the "investigation" after the community erupts into outcry
8. Close investigation, admit to a bit bigger problem
9. Deny deny deny
10. To be continued.....
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Rippey
Minmatar hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:46:00 -
[216]
Kugutsumen deserves a public apology and his account back. The ones within BoB leadership should have the frickin balls to stand up and tell the truth of what they knew and didn't knew. Right know they're just sitting quiet hoping for this to blow over.
Oh, and if t20 would've been one of my employess, he'd have a fine, red boot print glued to his ass. Don't even want to think of the economical and customer damage he's caused already.
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Niaski Zalani
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:46:00 -
[217]
Originally by: Great Guardian One of my bigger concerns in this is why *exactly* was Kugutsumen banned from the game? Why is the whistle blower the one taking the fall here? Even if the information was "ill gotten"?
None of us would have known about this if not for KUGUTSUMEN!!!
/cheers GG
He actually got banned due to this fun clause in the EULA that pretty much boils down to "you can be banned for whatever reason, without explanation, at any time" -- the real reason, in my opinion, is quite obvious.
I'll just restate: Free Kugutsumen. Unban his accounts. No need to apologise to him, but just unbanning him would go a long way to showing that CCP as an entity does actually still deserve our trust and sympathy.
...Free Kugutsumen... |
Xendie
Away Humping Keyboard
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:47:00 -
[218]
to start with T20 should come 100% clean about everything even the account sharing and ebaying in RKK also and name names.
we know the name but if he has any spine at all he will name then for the record so all those accounts can be properly banned. we know he was in charge of RKK's capital fleet and had intimate knowledge of their cynonet and account sharing for that cynonet.
also Sirmolle should have all his accounts banned for posting a persons RL name and adress on these forums.
you still got a long way to go before you have cleaned up in your own house CCP.
Quote: Nertzius > having fun being incompetitent?
Quote: jake sisko > its f-e's bob dev alt making lag
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Baun
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:48:00 -
[219]
First impressions are the following:
1) Its nice that CCP came out and admitted something that they could have hidden.
2) The fact that they banned the person who brought all of this to light and are apparently not firing an admittedly corrupt employee absolutely reeks of evasion through admittance.
CCP needs to be 100% transparent about exactly what happened and how. That this is the only thing to have been addressed, and that it involves a developer really indicates to me that alot is being hidden from us.
There are far more pervasive issues existing within all of ISD that are not even hinted at by either blog post. The fact that the most obvious, pervasive and probably the most prevalent of all of the issues brought to light and CCP's treatment of the person who was responsible for all fo this leads me almost inescapably to the conclusion that much is still being hiden from us and that the so called "commitment" is highly disinenguous.
In order to win back my trust (I can hardly speak for the community), CCP needs to get rid of t20 (if this is not being done the purported gravity with which you view this corruption cannot be taken seriously), develop a transparent process for dealing with these issues (starting by telling us exactly what happened), unban the accounts of the player who allowed all of this to happen, and deal with the pervasive cheating, minor or not, that exsits within the ranks of the player volunteer core (I need make no specific accusations, but everyone who is even passingly familiar with the subject can't deny that there is a serious problem without lying).
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Aertuun
Ars Caelestis Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:48:00 -
[220]
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker And in real life, you cant kick or fire someone over a "insignificant" thing as this. We are speaking about real life people, with real life work. Real life family. A warning is on its place. But screaming for someones head just over a stupid game, and a happending that did not affect anyone in the game?? The BPOs are litterally worthless!!
CCP's reputation as a professional company is not worthless.
Nor is the financial impact this person's incompetence (negligence? lies? deception? corruption?) will have on the company.
How do you think word of mouth from the playerbase will be about EVE after this? Or about CCP?
Just imagine how this episode (and it isn't over; I do believe a lot is being covered up here) is going to effect future subscription numbers.
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Niccolado Starwalker
Shadow Templars
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:48:00 -
[221]
Originally by: Mrs Amadeus
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Honestly, I am getting a little sick of the hatred in the thread.
The BPOs are not good. And in real life, you cant kick or fire someone over a "insignificant" thing as this. We are speaking about real life people, with real life work. Real life family. A warning is on its place. But screaming for someones head just over a stupid game, and a happending that did not affect anyone in the game?? The BPOs are litterally worthless!!
T20 have showed us lot of dedication to EVE in his time here. I think its time for us to show him some trust too. Its human to fail once. If it happends again though. Then its another thing. But until that happend, he will have my trust.
This is not the first incident of GM misconduct.
Admitting to something after being proven guilty should garner no respect.
What he did does not garner respect. He should get a warning for what he have done. But this whitch hunt have to end too!
This is a game for **** sake! Its not the end of the world! And as I said, it did not affect the player mass as a whole! I say let this pass!
Originally by: Eldo Davip PORTRAITS OMFG WOOT. WE R GONIG FOR MROE BREEE!!!!11
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Evil D4rk
Caldari Shihan.
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:49:00 -
[222]
I have a few unanswered question about these two statements.
1)If Hilmar did not deal with the incident at the time who did? Was Hilmar notfied about it, somthing this serious should go to the CEO of the company and no one else.
2)Assurances about future conduct of all Devs in game should be highly and strickly monitored, this does not only include their ingame chars, but about a thing that is much harder to trace using server logs, it is favourtism. Certain high ranking charachters in certain alliances have been and as far as I can see it, will always get advance knowledge and consultation about future events in game.....this is not imo acceptable.
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Baun
4S Corporation Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:49:00 -
[223]
Originally by: NATMav How *not* to satisfy your customers.
1. Delete and ban anyone making accusations of wrongdoing
2. Deny deny deny
3. Launch an "investigation" after the community erupts into outcry
4. Close investigation, admit to one small insignificant problem
5. Deny deny deny
6. Lock and/or delete further discussion of the accusations
7. Reopen the "investigation" after the community erupts into outcry
8. Close investigation, admit to a bit bigger problem
9. Deny deny deny
10. To be continued.....
This is depressingly accruate and its a better explanation of why I am 100% possitive that this is only the tip of the iceberg.
The Enemy's Gate is Down
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Xander XacXorien
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:49:00 -
[224]
The thing that REALLY annoys me is that in Eve it's a real grind and struggle to try and attain goals at the expense of your social time. Granted that social time has been spent in what I thought was worthy based on what I thought was a level playing field.
The T2 lottery has already shattered the level playing field,,, this makes the T2 lottery look like a fools escapade.
Hope and expectation in a game can make the game,,, there's something to play for.
I now question if there is anything to play for,,, should I suck ass like the fan boys on the forums ? Perhaps this brings new light on the posts of exhorting Eve even in the worst of times and those lambasting those complaining about Eve playability.
It makes me REALLY ****ed off in the light and knowledge that to play in 0.0 you need ISK,,, ISK which is and endless stream to a Dev - what else has been done ???
Eve is a database,,, existing data can be moved about and terminated accounts could very well have resources moved of syphoned off,,,
I don't trust CCP and I don't trust this is the end of the story.
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Kalimac Brandagamba
Privateers Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:50:00 -
[225]
Originally by: hellmar
A pivotal case was uncovered last summer during a routine investigation of developer accounts. Unfortunately CCP did not act with the same decisive consistency we have used on previous occasions.
You knew about this since last summer but did nothing? You didn't remove the BPOs? You tried to deny it until now?
So, what else do you know?
Kal
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Bawldeux IV
Green Lantern Corps
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:50:00 -
[226]
Originally by: Karash Amerius Video Games are often a mirror of life it seems. So many people are here, in this thread, unknowingly yelling to the world all their insecurities in life. They throb, yell, and bleed virtual tears on how someone is 'robbing' them...in ways that I care not.
All over some 1s and 0s. Binary bits that only represent a dream...a moving peice of artwork that everyone gets to paint. Its a sad commentary on the game and its community...but, it is also just a reflection of life.
it is a reflection of a corrupt company that f's over its customers.
ccp != trusted
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SamuraiJack
Caldari Celestial Horizon Corp.
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:50:00 -
[227]
Point 1) Hmm... wheres the bob blob? Guess they got told to shut up and let this burn out.
Point 2) Just a game? How about you have YOUR allaince booted out of your space by "influnced" Allaince with "favor" in high places. See what you think.
Point 3) CCP needs to sort this and fast and also look at the other favouritism that has gone on. Complexes, Account sharing, Petitions (how long did it take you to get your stuff back vs the opposing allaince?)
CCP is in a PR landslide. Fix it... or you will die trying. SJ. CLS Director =-
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Tar om
Minmatar Octavian Vanguard RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:50:00 -
[228]
T20 must be fired and perma-banned.
Also, I find the whole tone of "Help us put this behind us" to be wrong. This should not be forgotten, it should be used as an example of what happens when things go bad. CCP and any MMO company should be constantly on guard against corruption. The culture of secrecy that they foster does no good at all. -- We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net
"The belief in the possibility of a short decisive war appears to be one of the most ancient and dangerous of human illusions." |
Mandow
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:50:00 -
[229]
Edited by: Mandow on 09/02/2007 21:49:06 Edited by: Mandow on 09/02/2007 21:48:12 This is a travesty.
t20 needs to go.
An actual investigation needs to be made and CCP needs to not sweep this under the rug like they are doing.
Allegations against certain corporations need to be addressed and not forgotten as a single corrupt CCP employee falls on his sword.
CCP, you can not just forget about this incident and forgoe a real indepth investigation. Players had the information, knew about the Dev link, the BPOs and took advantage of this fact. It is unacceptable for you to do nothing.
It is especially vexxing because CCP is directly supporting an individual group at the expense of everyone else. Your company's integrety, image and ability to be taken seriously is being destroyed due to your own incompetence.
Consider this notice of 13 paid accounts being closed down as they run out due to your corruption and inability to actual care about the game.
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Xthril Ranger
hirr Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:51:00 -
[230]
Dear CCP
Your internal affair unit seems to rely on tips from players to be able to find anything , will I too be banned if I report something? Will they ever be able to find something on their own? you'll never jump alone |
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Tab'Fren
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:51:00 -
[231]
CCP keeps harping about how they've taken steps to keep devs from misbehaving in the future. That's all well and good, and what's done is what's done... but just because it's hard to quantify the material advantage created from cheating the playerbase, that doesn't mean that anyone who benefited from such cheating should be allowed to retain one single bit of their ill-gotten gains.
Confiscating the BPOs is quite simply not enough. Saying 'mea culpa' or 'I'm terribly sorry to have screwed everyone else over' isn't enough.
CCP, you cannot expect the playerbase to accept that someone who cheats can still retain the rewards gained from such behavior. Removing the BPOs only stops this incident of cheating from continuing... there is still the matter of all the rewards received from being able to use and sell those items.
You have to make this right... and saying "oops, we'll do bettah!" is not enough.
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Zothike
RABBLE-RABBLE
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:51:00 -
[232]
strange... 6 page about BoB and near no BoB answer (out of the hidden alt of course... good 'bravado' demo again)
poor T20 it is of course a smokescreen and t20 is the sacrificied fuse
Kungustmen (or wathever his name should have account(s) back + compensation
and what about the dommage done to 'honest' players , do you remember Fountain Alliance? ASCN? (ex ascn myself yes) what about my hauler with wcs full of noxcium on the way to empire blowed up by a BoB sabre ?
It's not enought (by far)
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Sinlare
Gallente Sinlare Auditorium
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:51:00 -
[233]
Edited by: Sinlare on 09/02/2007 21:48:07
Originally by: SamuraiJack Point 1) Hmm... wheres the bob blob? Guess they got told to shut up and let this burn out.
Point 2) Just a game? How about you have YOUR allaince booted out of your space by "influnced" Allaince with "favor" in high places. See what you think.
Point 3) CCP needs to sort this and fast and also look at the other favouritism that has gone on. Complexes, Account sharing, Petitions (how long did it take you to get your stuff back vs the opposing allaince?)
CCP is in a PR landslide. Fix it... or you will die trying.
You're just bitter that you lost Samurai, get over yourself. You're a nobody and you screaming murder won't change that. |
Niaski Zalani
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:51:00 -
[234]
Originally by: Lucre Whoa - just realised something.
CCP knew about this last June. Okay, so they decided not to sack T20 on the spot which is almost certainly the wrong decision looking from outside but leave that aside for a moment.
If I read this correctly, CCP knew those bpo's were fraudulently obtained but LEFT THEM IN THE GAME UNTIL NOW?
I'd actually love to know the reason why that decision was made. The dev blog wasn't exactly clear on that. It might help if the reasoning behind this decision were also posted.
We don't need to know the nitty gritty, just the "why".
...Free Kugutsumen... |
Niaski Zalani
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:52:00 -
[235]
Originally by: Sinlare
I certainly wont ever trust your company, supporting illegal actions. succes ermee.
I wouldn't want you as a customer anyway :) De mazzel! ...Free Kugutsumen... |
ToxicFire
Phoenix Knights
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:52:00 -
[236]
This who affair makes me sorry.
t20's employment should be terminated sorry but rules are rules no one should be exempt CCP's made its position clear on stuff like numerous time, instant non-negotiable termination of employees contract. t20 knew this and chose to break those rules an apology though thoughtful is slightly pointless, also if CCP fails to follow its own policy it will leave a legal gap if it ever decides to sack an other employee for these kind of actions in the future.
BOB wether they did or did not knowingly participate or benefit from t20's actions this is what you will soley be remembered for from this point on. Every victory or unusual circumstance that BoB is involved or has been involved with over time will now be a focus of doubt for the integrity of BoB and CCP.
CCP a lot of people have lost faith in you now but the ball is in your court and you can do something about it visibly and quickly to stem and negative affects. But what ever you do, do it quickly I've seen similar things happen in other MMO's most of the time they went into a position where they were making a loss on the product very soon after said incidents.
Join the save Stargate SG1 Campaign Today! http://savestargatesg1.com/ |
Ace Frehley
Minmatar Black Lance Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:52:00 -
[237]
I just forgot to add, as I seen other already mention it.. You sending t20 to hell to cover up more, sacrifising t20 to the wolfs, hopeing the wolfpack will be satisfied? Basic company knowledge just tells us you are trying to save/cover up what is left. Gonna say it nice and easy: PUT ALL THE CARDS ON THE TABLE NOW!! Or you will have more Kug hackers. i¦m not a fan of kug, hell i hated his topics, but it is sadly it took him to discover your problems and not your internal staff. Or you maybe did know and tried to cover up, even worse. Please kick everyone, re-hire the must trusted and hire some competent staff that can do the dirty work as an outside employed, that is workin for the players and community, not ccp or BoB. BOD for the loose
Girljerms is more lethal then a fleet of 1000 Tempests Yeah I¦m nude, I¦m a swede and I¦m armed with bad jokes
[url="http://www. |
Troubadour
Slacker Industries Exuro Mortis
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:53:00 -
[238]
Seriously, They were mostly crap BPOs. And you all do not know the circumstances of what happened behind the scenes. I'm sure it's not a black and white issue like many of you claim. All of you that are saying "fire the guy" have no clue what it is like to find competant devs in a software company. Obviously they didn't can him right away for a good reason. I think you should all sit around and wait and listen before you all jump to open your big flap traps screaming "BAN THE DEVS, BAN BOB" just because of your failure to perform against them in game.
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Isidien Madcap
Minmatar Provenance.
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:53:00 -
[239]
Thank you for the public apology. There are still many unanswered questions, though I don't know what form of answers people are looking for. How do you respond to the issue of devs possibly providing information? There's no way to prove either answer, and there's also no way for any restitution to take place if someone came forward and said "Yes, I let my corp/alliance know about XXX changes ahead of time" or "Yes, I scouted for my corp in a GM frigate".
No matter what happened, you can't roll back the clock.
I don't have an opinion on whether t20 should or shouldn't be let go; from Hellmar's post, it sounds like that the no-questions-asked policy is new in place from January, and this is an event that happened last June. Back then, his characters were dealt with, but it's entirely possible that noone checked if he left any assets, or that if he did, that it was assumed that they were gained through normal means.
As Hellmar pointed out, EVE has a population the size of Iceland. Yet the governance of that virtual country is ultimately up to a few dozen people with zero oversight.
So, despite it sounding like a drastic measure, I'd say that the only solution that would put fears of such misconduct to rest in the future would be to contract an outside company to a) audit the operation of the Internal Affairs division; and b) provide an escalation path for extremely high profile allegations such as this one.
(Entrepreneurs take note: there are lots of companies providing services for corporate governance or financial auditing; with the growing importance of virtual worlds, this could be an interesting area for someone to move in to.)
Isidien Provenance. www.eve-provenance.com -- looking for more pilots! |
ShuPac the3rd
Amarr Obsidian Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.09 21:53:00 -
[240]
Edited by: ShuPac the3rd on 09/02/2007 21:52:26 I really don't see any reason for t20 to stay here anymore. Frankly if I get any chance to work with him in real life I will personaly do anything to remove him from that company!
Yes he made a lot of good things for CCP and EVE (personally I did not see any cuz he did not gave me any tech II BPO), but... hey...you got bank employee who was working for twenty years in a bank and one day out of blue he take couple of millions from bank assests...shall we keep him because he done so may good things last 20 years???
NO!!!! ------- nije mi dozvoljeno stavit sliku koja ja hoću |
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