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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
The Assyrian
Mound of Severed Heads
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Posted - 2007.02.12 15:36:00 -
[2941]
Originally by: TZeer From another place I posted...
What I find funny here is that BOB pets/fanbois and stuff keep grinding on thoose few BPO like that was all that happend....
There are proof of major inside use of account sharing in BOB, and with alot of devs in the alliance you should atleast expect them to uphold the EULA.
Molle post RL info on forums, nothing happens. Kugustsumen do the same, gets banned for it. [snip] What I do have a problem with is that they know about accountsharing and dont bother upholding their own EULA.
So a member of GOONSWARM is all up in arms about account sharing, the sharing of RL info, and violations of the EULA?
Really?
Here's just one of the occassions Goonie director The Mitanni spilled RL info on the boards Here's a picture of the Eve client hack hundreds of Goonies used to cheat with, in clear violation of the EULA Moreover, chat logs were posted clearly demonstrated that lots of Goonies and RA were account sharing, while Goonie's new pals D2 were hacking RL ip addresses and have a pretty extensive cynonet of their own.
Goonswarm = hypocrites.
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Cupdeez
Vengeance of the Fallen Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.12 15:38:00 -
[2942]
I feel sick!!
I love this game and been playing for more then 3 years. Know I have to make a difficult decision weather I want to play a game that I spent 3+ years working and enjoying for so long just because some CCP employees decided to cheat and try and cover everything up.
I always felt BOB had an unfair advantage but in the back of my head I was always telling my self maybe they are that good.
With these recent events I canÆt help but think they have been cheating the whole time. Shooting players through POS shields, warping to deep safe spots right was we get out of warped, knowing exactly where everything is (POSes/special events), and they never seem to have the lag problems the rest of us seem to have.(anyone who has fought BOB in big fleets knows that I'm talking about)
IÆm sure BOB has many good players that never would even think to cheat but the problem is the devÆs and GMÆs in the alliance did it for you. IÆm think BOB has only completed everything in the game because of cheating and you are nothing with out the GMs in your alliance.
Signature filesize exceeds max limit of 24000 bytes. Mail us if you have questions -Eldo Davip |
Kerfira
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Posted - 2007.02.12 15:38:00 -
[2943]
Originally by: Enaria Ferenic Kerfira, give it up man, nobody is listening to BoB alts...the cats outta the bag.
Originally by: Kerfira Yes, I know!! In the eyes of all the whiners in this thread, I'm either: a) A BoB Alt b) A BoB lapdog c) A Dev d) All of the above...
..... or I could just be a normal EVE player thoroughly disgusted with the lynch-mob mentality of the majority of the posters in this thread!!!!
Kerfira IS an alt, but I'm merely using it so my main in his 1-MAN corp (I think the BoB corp are slightly larger....) will not get war-dec'ed.
General advice: Stop whining! |
Enaria Ferenic
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Posted - 2007.02.12 15:39:00 -
[2944]
Originally by: Enaria Ferenic
Originally by: D'onryu Shoqui is keiron still answering concerns in the other thread? because theres still alot of valid concerns/questions that havent been answered.
i can only assume alot of the other stuff posted in here is beeing "investigated" aswell and your waiting for the results?
please we need to be informed about whatever is going on.
Nope, nothing posted there since 2007.02.10 21:37:00
This Char is an Alt.
Oh wait...look....this was posted today...information of earth shattering dimensions..... http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=458843
This Char is an Alt.
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Enaria Ferenic
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Posted - 2007.02.12 15:41:00 -
[2945]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Enaria Ferenic Kerfira, give it up man, nobody is listening to BoB alts...the cats outta the bag.
Originally by: Kerfira Yes, I know!! In the eyes of all the whiners in this thread, I'm either: a) A BoB Alt b) A BoB lapdog c) A Dev d) All of the above...
..... or I could just be a normal EVE player thoroughly disgusted with the lynch-mob mentality of the majority of the posters in this thread!!!!
Kerfira IS an alt, but I'm merely using it so my main in his 1-MAN corp (I think the BoB corp are slightly larger....) will not get war-dec'ed.
Hrmmmm....probably an good idea atm ....everybodies blood is certainly up allright!
This Char is an Alt.
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Max Firepower
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Posted - 2007.02.12 15:41:00 -
[2946]
Originally by: D'onryu Shoqui is keiron still answering concerns in the other thread? because theres still alot of valid concerns/questions that havent been answered.
i can only assume alot of the other stuff posted in here is beeing "investigated" aswell and your waiting for the results?
please we need to be informed about whatever is going on.
and lol?
do you really think they read the garbage thats postet in 105 sites? :)
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Enaria Ferenic
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Posted - 2007.02.12 15:42:00 -
[2947]
ISD will let them know whats going on...
This Char is an Alt.
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Tabet Saens
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc. Brutally Clever Empire
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Posted - 2007.02.12 15:45:00 -
[2948]
Originally by: Max Firepower
first: eve would not lose any trust if they did not commit it by their own that something happend. dont forget, if ccp would not have said anything you would be clueless like before.
Your argument fell apart right here. The community was already very suspicious, possibly outraged, before CCP admitted anything. Many of us were waiting to see what their "investigations" revealed.
Everything else was strawman, concerning mafia or something.
To clariy my first post, I have no false pretense that this "incident" will be the RUIN of CCP. In fact, I hope EVE does not die.
But there are reasons why a company has policies for their employees, REGARDLESS of whether their product is a game, a dishwasher, or an insurance contract. The actions of T20 has the potential of hurting their core business, in which trust is a major component.
T20 should not be fired over a game...T20 should be fired over risking the company's core business.
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freeloader
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Posted - 2007.02.12 15:46:00 -
[2949]
aha so it was tru a few mths ago i petitioned about the escrow system.. if you placed an item on for 0 isk it was claimed within 10 seconds i placed 4 scrows all at same time in 4 different regions and they also went of scrow within 10 seconds... now its come to light it was a bob guy ,.... low n' behold macroing the escrow system 3 mth ban for him.. lol omg
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2007.02.12 15:46:00 -
[2950]
Originally by: Kerfira
Please remember that CCP is under NO obligation to share the result of their internal disciplinary investigations with you.
CCP (and the dev in question) has come clear about the whole business. [...] There is NO other proof of anything, except of.c. peoples need to think bad things about others....
Nonsense.
Point a: CCP has indeed no obligation to talk with their customers and playerbase. But they better do! Otherwise CCP can close down EVE pretty soon.
Point b: Dev in question come clear? Erm, hello? He admitted cheating. Also CCP admitted that they discovered it in summer last year and still WAITED until a few days? WTF. You want proof? Read their own blogs. But don't treat us like fools.
The whole weekend and half the day now past and still no reply to all those questions here???!
Very disappointing ... again.
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Dragutinovic
Caldari Bladerunners Mordus Angels
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Posted - 2007.02.12 15:48:00 -
[2951]
Since it seems peopel in BoB who were in the know of thinsg and actively used that info are still not banned we might as well still call teh new EvE Promo Vid : Welcome to BoB Online .
We should not diss them as a whole but we should those who actively participated in this mess . Shame an alliance now will be called cheaters altho its justa few who were responsible for it and probably are responsible that quite a few of BoB will not be welcomed anywhere else anymore .
_____________
Im back !
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Blank Protection
Caldari White Wolves Defence league The OSS
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Posted - 2007.02.12 15:48:00 -
[2952]
Originally by: Mikael Deco I say collective punishment should be applied. If one dev cheats then all devs gets their accounts deleted. Maybe then they'll start behaving in a professional manner instead of covering for each other. Also they should restart their accounts with no assests or isk (any isk transfered before deletion should be revoked if they try to store it through a 3rd party).
I very agree on this. When a player buys ISK on ebay he gets a warning and his wallet gets the same ammount of ISK but negative. Same and stronger rules especially for Developers. Starting back at zero or ban all there accounts thats the best solution. They all have to leave the Corp or Alliance they are joining now. Best and most fair way to deal with it.
You can sit and wait that its going to happened again.
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Broodthorn
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Posted - 2007.02.12 15:50:00 -
[2953]
Edited by: Broodthorn on 12/02/2007 15:47:11 You've got to be kidding me. CCP only catches this guy because a hacker reveals the information. The hacker gets banned, the BPO's that shouldn't have been there in the first place are removed.. but none of the profits are. The guy's characters are deleted, but he's already admitted to buying/selling on E*Bay...
Nothing has changed. Just words and spin have happened.
Here is what needs to happen.
1.) T20 needs to be fired.
2.) An internal investigation needs to happen that actually finds something out that the community didn't already know. If a hacker can find something... the IA office should be able to find something.
3.) Any individuals who knew what was happening with T20 need to have their accounts banned. 4.) If they were corporate officers, their corporation/alliance needs to be fined commensurate with the benefit of the ilicit acts, multiplied by a penalty.
You can either get serious about people breaking the rules, or you can put in completely ineffective bs like you have been doing. Let's see some actual leadership at CCP. This could have been an opportunity for CCP to demonstrate to the gaming community their IRON CLAD commitment to the integrity of the game. Instead we got politicans and cowards.
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Verbol Kint
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Posted - 2007.02.12 15:50:00 -
[2954]
Originally by: Max Firepower
weird unsubstantiated rant
Look you can hurl insults at folks all you want, but the fact is that this situation has real world consequences for CCP and must be dealt with in a professional manner.
It is sad that T20 may need to get sacked over this, but hey, if I was caught transferring several thousand dollars in company assets to my friends, I would certainly have gotten more than a "talking to."
Tot he BoB alts who think they are fooling people and can forum war their way out of this: YOu are not helping your cause, you are just infuriating folks even more.
As for the "Goonswarm client hack" that keeps getting reffered to: News Flash, that was done witht he consent of CCP who had full knowledge of it and implemented it in its next patch. Bringing it up does not help your case, and slinging poo doesn't either. Best bet is to demand CCP remove all Devs from your alliance and make a statement acknowleding that. That is the only way you guys get away without looking like a laughing stock.
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Nils Bohr
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Posted - 2007.02.12 15:54:00 -
[2955]
Originally by: Kerfira Edited by: Kerfira on 12/02/2007 15:02:48
Originally by: Nils Bohr
Originally by: Kerfira Are people posting on the forum incapable of posting lies/misperceptions/etc?
Absolutely not. For example, when t20 posted that when playing the game, devs "play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level" and "don't know more than you do," these were obvious lies.
Repeat that word very slowly in your mind Kerfira: lies. Say it out loud a few times if it helps.
CCP was employing t20, at the time he told that lie, as a game developer whose responsibilities included, in part, communicating with the EVE community -- us, CCP's paying customers. They paid him to tell the truth, and he lied. And they continued to employ him in that position anyway.
I'd very much like to be like you, desperately clinging to my trust in CCP and closing my eyes and ears, saying, as you do, "I believe that CCP is honestly trying to run this game in the fairest possible way to all players. This is only sensible since they're there to make money off the game." But in fact companies sometimes find that they make more money by not being honest with their customers. CCP appears to have made a decision that their corporate interests would be better served by covering up, lying, and trying to ignore this issue. I'm gratified that they seem to be changing their approach. But so far, I'm unconvinced.
T20 != CCP
T20 abused CCP's trust as much (or probably more) than he abused the trust of the EVE community. CCP disciplined him according to their internal guidelines, and THAT'S THAT! We don't know the details, but it is NONE of our business anyway. It's an internal matter. If you don't accept it as that, it's your prerogative to leave the game, but treating it internally is the correct procedure that ANY company would follow.
Blaming a group because one person in the group did something he shouldn't have never brought any good (except that warm fuzzy feeling of blaming someone for something). CCP is as much a victim here (and much more so I'd say) as any player.
Forgive me if I don't shed a tear for CCP's victimhood.
It's certainly true that t20 abused his position of trust and responsibility. They took whatever action they took. But at the conclusion of that, CCP did not take steps to remove the fraudulent items and they permitted him to continue in a position where he could lie to the paying customers and lecture them about about "sportsmansship."
That's CCP's decision, as a corporate entity, not t20's decision alone. You may be okay with that. I'm not.
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Rieger VaunBraun
Amarr Crazy Canucks Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.12 15:56:00 -
[2956]
This weekend when I read all about this I was angry. I promised myself I wouldn't write a response while I was angry and waited until Monday. That wait and time to calm down might really help some of the people who posted in this thread.
Now what I feel is disappointment in the Dev that caused all of this. Like another poster mentioned, perception is reality, and now people perceive that the Devs are biased and will help their friends and corpmates. I really think that is not the case, but the problem is now it is in people's minds as fact. I am sure he has been punished, and that this affair being dragged out into the light must be very painful for him.
The one thing that I didn't see anyone mention at all, is that I truly feel sorry for BoB. They are a top notch alliance and have created something that I had never seen before in scale in an MMO. (no I am not a BoB alt, and I have been ganked by their fleets more times than I would like to remember) But to then to have this tainted badge pinned to them through really no action of thier own. I think it will diminish what they have achieved in the eyes of most in EVE. That really is a shame.
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The Assyrian
Mound of Severed Heads
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Posted - 2007.02.12 16:00:00 -
[2957]
Originally by: Verbol Kint
As for the "Goonswarm client hack" that keeps getting reffered to: News Flash, that was done witht he consent of CCP who had full knowledge of it and implemented it in its next patch. Bringing it up does not help your case, and slinging poo doesn't either. Best bet is to demand CCP remove all Devs from your alliance and make a statement acknowleding that. That is the only way you guys get away without looking like a laughing stock.
That is simply false. A stone cold lie.
It was NOT done with either the consent or approval of CCP, who specifically cited the relevant section of the EULA in response to inquiries about it.
The fact that it was LATER rolled in as a feature is a complete red-herring. If there'd been a WTZ hack pre-Kali, you'd be arguing that that was legal? Yeah, I don't think so.
The fact is, it was cheating. It violated the EULA. And Goonswarm did it en masse. The Goonies can lie all they like about it NOW, but the truth is there was a time when fair play wasn't really such a big deal to the Goonies.
And let's not even get into all the stuff about Remedial's account sharing, or The Mitanni posting RL information on the Eve-O boards.
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Doxs Roxs
White Wolves Defence league The OSS
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Posted - 2007.02.12 16:08:00 -
[2958]
Personally I think this is just the top of the iceberg and Id say hes getting off the hook way to easy.
Dont underestimate what kind of impact a Sabre BPO and a Spike L BPO actually has, and thats just from what we know. How much has happened that we dont know about?
Regards
/Doxs
After 9 months of being a "!" face, I now discover that Im butt ugly instead... |
Ryu Jin'Ma
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Posted - 2007.02.12 16:09:00 -
[2959]
Originally by: The Assyrian The fact is, it was cheating. It violated the EULA. And Goonswarm did it en masse. The Goonies can lie all they like about it NOW, but the truth is there was a time when fair play wasn't really such a big deal to the Goonies.
And let's not even get into all the stuff about Remedial's account sharing, or The Mitanni posting RL information on the Eve-O boards.
Fine... ban them too.
Wherever misconduct exists... rip it out root and branch. Screw this Mr. Nice Guy How Much It Hurts To Be <Insert Cheating Slime Here>. Bleeding heart liberals... no wonder so many of you have lost to Bob again and again. Maybe they really didn't need dev help to cheat.
We'll never know now will we. |
Verbol Kint
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Posted - 2007.02.12 16:11:00 -
[2960]
Originally by: The Assyrian
Originally by: Verbol Kint
As for the "Goonswarm client hack" that keeps getting reffered to: News Flash, that was done witht he consent of CCP who had full knowledge of it and implemented it in its next patch. Bringing it up does not help your case, and slinging poo doesn't either. Best bet is to demand CCP remove all Devs from your alliance and make a statement acknowleding that. That is the only way you guys get away without looking like a laughing stock.
That is simply false. A stone cold lie.
It was NOT done with either the consent or approval of CCP, who specifically cited the relevant section of the EULA in response to inquiries about it.
The fact that it was LATER rolled in as a feature is a complete red-herring. If there'd been a WTZ hack pre-Kali, you'd be arguing that that was legal? Yeah, I don't think so.
The fact is, it was cheating. It violated the EULA. And Goonswarm did it en masse. The Goonies can lie all they like about it NOW, but the truth is there was a time when fair play wasn't really such a big deal to the Goonies.
And let's not even get into all the stuff about Remedial's account sharing, or The Mitanni posting RL information on the Eve-O boards.
Actually, the above is a stone cold lie. Goonswarm DID have permission and they have the documents to back it up. (Can't link to it because we are not allowed to link to the site in question from here). The EULA refence was another CCP FUBAR from GM's who didn't know what was going on.
As for Remedial, I can't comment other than to say if he is guilty of account sharing, he should be gone. Along with all members of alliances found guily of the same.
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Shameless Avenger
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Posted - 2007.02.12 16:21:00 -
[2961]
I have expressed my opinion that Devs should not play the game. One counter argument I received was that dev should be allowed to play to test the social aspect of the game. I've given much tought to that because it seemed like a reasonable thing that made sense. But after consideration, I came to the conclusion that testing the social aspect of the game really falls into marketing, NOT application development.
Marketing Guy != Application Developer
I went further and downloaded several curriculums from different colleges to see the differences between a marketing and a programming degree. They are huge. So leave the developers on sisi testing the technical side of things. They should not play or socialize with regular player to avoid conflict of interest. |
Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2007.02.12 16:22:00 -
[2962]
All this behaviour of CCP and inability to either root out the black sheep(s) or to communicate clearly leads me to the belief that they cannot do anything. It might be far stretched, but I can imagine them being blackmailed in the sense of: if you do actions against me/us, i/we will tell everyone how deeps the s**t really goes.
I think the EVE community is great and CCP only needs to take action, and stop only reacting when they are pushed. Come forth! Clear rules, visible enforcement of them, open communication. Why can't we discuss GM decisions? How can we trust petitions being handled in the right manner? Maybe the GM 'hates' me for blowing up his game buddies ships? Maybe he just want to 'help' his buddies?
CCP must restore faith! Give us a list of devs/GM's/event managers with their responsibilites and if they have chars in any alliance and if yes, in which.
You want trust? Earn it.
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Xander XacXorien
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Posted - 2007.02.12 16:25:00 -
[2963]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Lucre
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Xthril Ranger But CCP is the part that is caught telling lies. We now cant trust CCP anymore and that is what makes this thread so long.
Ehh, what lies have CCP told?
Originally by: Kieron CCP has taken these charges very seriously and since they surfaced we have launched a thorough investigation...
As for the allegations themselves, they consist of two parts. The first part involved a case that happened seven months ago when a CCP employeeÆs identity became public knowledge within his corporation...
The second part of the accusations stem from a leak of information pertaining to an in-game event arc... Last summer, CCP implemented stricter monitoring procedures and audits on all CCP employeesÆ EVE accounts. We are confident that our rigid procedures and protocol will prevent any misconduct...
We hope that this statement will put this issue behind us once and for all...
Now, it's a curious thing, but there's nothing there about cheating devs or created bpos? And note the carefully chosen tenses of "last summer" and "will prevent".
I'll grant it's a lie of omission rather than a flat-out lie (well, except maybe for the bit about "rigid" procedures which clearly aren't). But in some ways, that's worse as it's a lie deliberately designed to be deniable.
It's catch-22. Only CCP know the truth, but they need to stop the cover-up otherwise even the truth won't be believed if and when they tell all of it.
So in your own words, they didn't lie. Thank you.
Please remember that CCP is under NO obligation to share the result of their internal disciplinary investigations with you. In fact there might be employee protection laws that forbid them from doing so without the consent of the employee (I know some countries has laws for that).
If you have a tin-foil hat this big, nothing will ever convince you. I point here to your last statement, which precludes any closure as you're assuming there is more. You'll always assume there is more. Mostly because you haven't seen a public hanging....
CCP (and the dev in question) has come clear about the whole business. Yes, 6 BPO's were spawned by a dev. Yes, the dev was punished in the summer (pretty fast reaction time by CCP in fact). Yes, they didn't make this public at that time (which they're fully entitled not to, and maybe legally bound not to). Yes, for some reason (and CCP are the only ones knowing why, but it could be simple oversight) the BPO's were not removed from the game until recently. That is the extent of the matter! There is NO other proof of anything, except of.c. peoples need to think bad things about others....
Lynch-mob justice FTW!
/me is disgusted....
Well it might literally be as you say, CCP don't HAVE to come clean on anything legally.
But then again, they do have liability insurance,
Do they have investors ? do they have a bank loan ?
If an employee has shown their judgement is flawed and a problem occurred at a later date would liability insurance pay out as procedures were not followed ? Remember Nick Leason losing 700 million and bankrupting a company because procedures weren't followed ?
Would you put your livelyhood at risk based on someone you know has acted against your own interests ?
Would the investors put their money at risk with a company which doesnt follow it's own procedures ? If CCP is a stock quoted company then I think you will find they ARE obliged to divulge anything that affects their profits and in short order.
Would you like to be employeed at a company which risks it's assets ?
Banks won't look kindly to their loan being put at risk.
The point I'm making here is quite simply, the decisions are not clear cut as the EULA or any legal document says. What is far more important is what effect this whole affair will have on CCP's assets - Eve's future reputation and it's customers.
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Akyra C
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Posted - 2007.02.12 16:25:00 -
[2964]
Edited by: Akyra C on 12/02/2007 16:22:45
Originally by: Enaria Ferenic
Oh wait...look....this was posted today...information of earth shattering dimensions..... http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=458843
This Char is an Alt.
Erm, how comes compromised developer characters were "removed from the game" as kieron stated, but are still used to post on forums ? Just a question.
I`m not only an alt but also a trial. 2 accs closed ~ bye ccp.
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Ryu Jin'Ma
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Posted - 2007.02.12 16:29:00 -
[2965]
Originally by: Gnulpie It might be far stretched, but I can imagine them being blackmailed in the sense of: if you do actions against me/us, i/we will tell everyone how deeps the s**t really goes.
After all it is far easier to discredit and ban a convicted hacker who blackmails you then it is to discredit and ban an ISD volunteer/Dev who is blackmailing you.
But shhhhh.... we shouldn't discuss what isn't in evidence. Wait... then we wouldn't be discussing this at all according to the fanbois/bleeding hearts.
Found Lacking, Send Packing
Consignment Auctioneer - Contact by evemail if interested in having your items sold by me. |
MrTriggerHappy
Caldari Interstellar eXodus R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.02.12 16:31:00 -
[2966]
I also said to myself that I wasnt going to respond to this in anyway or matter (apart my 2 short posts "Disgusted" and "woah look at it fly", However I would like Kieron to answer...
I've seen a lot of posts regarding Sirmolle and the RL information he has seemingly passed out. If this is the case, should you not be enforcing your EULA on him and be banning him from the game?
The users of this community do deserve the answers that they are asking for, we've already lost a good few players that are somewhat appauled at the way things are run.. I suppose the term is "Rules for one and rules for others". --------------------------------
My Comments in no way reflect my corp or alliance |
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kieron
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Posted - 2007.02.12 16:41:00 -
[2967]
We would like to thank everyone for their comments and voicing their concerns over these recent allegations. We have answered as many questions in this forum thread as possible, t20 has issued an apology for his part and Hellmar (CCP's CEO for those that are unaware) has also issued a statement.
We are looking towards the future, what we can do to improve EVE and repair the recent damage done to the EVE community. We ask the community to assist in this endeavour.
kieron Community Manager, EVE Online |
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