Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
IGNATIUS HOOD
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
90
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 22:25:00 -
[31] - Quote
ACE McFACE wrote:Atticus Fynch wrote:Well, I read a lot about "carebear tears" yet there is nothing to incite "pirate tears" in EVE. Seems kind'a one-sided. You are either predator or prey in EVE and the predators have the upper hand.
I think that is were the balance is lacking. The 'prey' could always tank their hulks, or not cart around 1b of stuff in a T1 Industrial, and there have been plenty of pirate tears threads. For example: Whaa Whaa why don't I get insurance from my ship being destroyed by Concord anymore!?!? Assuming by pirate tears you mean ganker tears
ACE, popping someone for a case of stupid is not ganking, it would be a sin to do anything else becuase some lessons are expensive. Those are the best kind in my opinion. I only have issue with jerks being jerks for the sake of being jerks.
'perfer et obdura; dolor hic tibi proderit olim'
Be patient and tough; some day this pain will be useful to you. |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
3202
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 22:28:00 -
[32] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:. Im not too clear on this either. We as -5 and below understand that having such a low sec status, opens us up to being shootable anywhere any time. This includes pods. One of the reasons we run through empire in pods, isn't due to them not being shootable, but simply because they insta warp.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Xolve
Epidemic.
185
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 23:05:00 -
[33] - Quote
Mag's wrote:We as -5 and below understand that having such a low sec status, opens us up to being shootable anywhere any time. This includes pods. One of the reasons we run through empire in pods, isn't due to them not being shootable, but simply because they insta warp.
We still fall victim to that 'landing short' phenomenon though... Lady Spank for C&P Moderator.
|
How2FoldSoup
Hull Tanking Elitists
8
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 23:19:00 -
[34] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:Well, I read a lot about "carebear tears" yet there is nothing to incite "pirate tears" in EVE. Seems kind'a one-sided. You are either predator or prey in EVE and the predators have the upper hand.
I think that is were the balance is lacking.
Lucky for us Eve is a sandbox and you can become whatever you want so the "predators" are safe forever.
oh wait... |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
2083
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 23:19:00 -
[35] - Quote
Generals4 wrote:Ironically when mechanics allow "pirate tears" they whine and call "hax". Like the wardec shield "system" , apparently a blatant abuse of mechanics according to some "pirates". No, you're confusing two rather different things here.
The problem with allowing decshields is that it renders certain highsec property completely safe that shouldn't be safe GÇö most notably POSes GÇö which means that, through poorly thought-through (and completely unnecessary) policy, they've broken a couple of rather important gameplay mechanics and as a result broken a part of the industrial economy.
Pirates don't give a crap about wardecs; proper industrialists do. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Fallenlassen
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 23:23:00 -
[36] - Quote
Tippia wrote:
Pirates don't give a crap about wardecs; proper industrialists do.
and high sec mercenaries, griefers, eve-uni.. what?
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
2083
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 23:28:00 -
[37] - Quote
Fallenlassen wrote:and high sec mercenaries, griefers, eve-uni.. what? Mercenaries don't care about POSes GÇö their employers (who wanted that POS killed) do. Griefers don't care about POSes (too much work, no grief, not worth getting banned over). EVE Uni might like it, but for the exact reason it's a very bad change.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
yopparai
ASTARTES CORP
5
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 23:29:00 -
[38] - Quote
Atticus you sir are a F*gg*t & not the good kind.
You know the ones I'm talking about |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
2083
|
Posted - 2011.12.16 23:33:00 -
[39] - Quote
yopparai wrote:Atticus you sir are a F*gg*t & not the good kind. You know the ones I'm talking about So, he's more of a bassoon? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Crystal Liche
ACME Mineral and Gas
48
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 01:06:00 -
[40] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:After reading the thread on why people suicide gank, the obvious answer..."because they can"...doesnt really address the question.
Apparently there are advantages and disadvantages involved in doing so.
The question here is, currently with present day EVE mechanics, do the advantages outweigh the disadvantages? And if so how can it be better balanced so as to discourage it.
Your thoughts/ideas?
Pros to suicide gank?
I have no idea, to me it doesn't even look fun.
I think you have to be like a 14 year old boy, to me it has that "smash stuff" aura that little boys like about the age right before they discover girls.
I guess if a person is bored?
|
|
Samillian
Trojan Trolls Controlled Chaos
61
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 01:13:00 -
[41] - Quote
Of the few HiSec gankers I know a minority are true pirate and do it for profit, they are well organised and focused on choosing a good profitable target the rest tend to be bored or a bit to timid to take a fight with a target that shoots back.
Make of that what you will. |
Jita Alt666
659
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 01:17:00 -
[42] - Quote
Opertone wrote:IMHO sec status can not be gained by killing NPCs.
Sec status regain - mining in a correctional facility. You'll love care and bears, you'll adapt to society better. Work brings mind in order. People may only volunteer to enter corfac to repay debts to society. Otherwise they never get sec status back.
That is essentially the same as running missions or killing NPC pirates to lift sec status. The issue is that clever players have figured out how to raise their sec status quicker than CCP originally intended for it to rise.
|
Bo Bojangles
Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
6
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 01:35:00 -
[43] - Quote
Likewise, sec status falls far more than CCP originally intended for it to fall. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1345
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 01:41:00 -
[44] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Ninyania alCladdyth wrote:IMO, outlaws (-5 sec & lower) should be freely pod-killable with no repercussions from Concord. While this won't "fix the problem", the constant stream of high-ISK-value clone losses and/or SP losses might discourage the behavior... assuming one of us "carebears" has the balls to lock & shoot a pod.
I thought anyone -5 and below was pod-killable without concord intervention, or has this changed?
They are. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1345
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 01:44:00 -
[45] - Quote
My idea is that suicide ganks on NPC corp characters should grant a significantly lower sec status hit than suicide ganks on player corp members. Mining while in an NPC corp makes you immune to wardecs, the 11% tax doesn't apply to you - NPC corps should not be "shelters." |
Ocih
Space Mermaids
16
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 01:47:00 -
[46] - Quote
Pro's do it in Rens Con's do it in Jita |
Keno Skir
39
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 02:46:00 -
[47] - Quote
I think it might just be a good thing to allow pod killing for very low sec criminals, might add some more depth to the criminal aspect of the game. The Apostle : I want a kangeroo Captain Kirk : Silly Austrians Sarmatiko : Let me guess: you're from US? Captain Kirk : Yeah Riverside IA - why? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
2083
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 02:53:00 -
[48] - Quote
Keno Skir wrote:I think it might just be a good thing to allow pod killing for very low sec criminals, might add some more depth to the criminal aspect of the game. No, that doesn't seem to do much difference. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Lady Spank
GET OUT NASTY FACE
514
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 02:57:00 -
[49] - Quote
Tribalic One wrote:Smell tears, I do. I honestly don't understand why this is such a debate... It's not as if there are massive gank squadrons flying around ganking every hulk or freighter on undock. We are all playing the same game right?! Every ship I undock I know is at risk of being lost. "Don't fly it, if you can't lose it." - Some EvE Guy
If I couldn't lose it, I would fly it all the time. (a¦á_a¦â) ~ http://getoutnastyface.blogspot.com/ ~ (a¦á_a¦â) |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
41
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 03:03:00 -
[50] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:Good point. But it does bring up the question is it normal gameplay or just CCP sanctioned griefing? The fact that it is CCP santioned means it is not griefing, and thus it is normal gameplay.
Generals4 wrote:Ironically when mechanics allow "pirate tears" they whine and call "hax". Like the wardec shield "system" , apparently a blatant abuse of mechanics according to some "pirates". I think what you meant to say here is that when CCP call something an exploit, pirates call it an exploit too, but when CCP say something is ok, carebears call it an exploit/griefing anyway. Funny how that works. |
|
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
25
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 04:02:00 -
[51] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:After reading the thread on why people suicide gank, the obvious answer..."because they can"...doesnt really address the question.
Apparently there are advantages and disadvantages involved in doing so.
The question here is, currently with present day EVE mechanics, do the advantages outweigh the disadvantages? And if so how can it be better balanced so as to discourage it.
Your thoughts/ideas?
So, just in case you were really looking for an answer, here goes:
There are a few key groups of players that suicide gank and they are focused around various ideologies; here's a quick breakdown of what I think those are, and an in depth review of the most important ones:
[in no particular order of importance]
1. Players who do it for profit. Pirates essentially. 2. Players who do it for "the lulz". Because they can. 3. Players who are attempting to control resources with no other tool to do so. (killing NPC Corp miners in high sec ice belts for example) 4. Players who are trying to disrupt RMT and botting operations.
Hmm, that was a lot shorter than I thought.
Let's address the most trivial reasons first (in order of magnitude/importance, least to greatest): Players who do it for fun- enough said. Some players just like to annoy other players "because they can". Players who attempt to disrupt RMT operations. Do they really think they're changing anything on a larger scale? I doubt it. Players who are attempting to control resources with no other recourse- this is the first "real" reason here, but it's still less important overall than the best/final reason: PLAYER PROFIT.
Some more detail on why players suicide gank for profit:
Basically, it's CCP's fault that suicide ganking is as prevalent as it is. CCP has gone to *great* lengths to deter suicide ganking, with little real effect, and indeed it has only continued to grow in popularity. The reason why is simple: CCP is doing a terrible job of making "carebear" wealth accessible to PVP centric players.
Players, and specifically pirates, always go where the money is. "Back in the day", there was little suicide ganking (I can remember chasing Iteron Vs fitted with Local Expanders worth over a hundred million ISK in expanders alone lol!). The reason being is because the vast majority of the wealth was in 0.0 and before Warp To Zero (WTZ) was implemented, there was plenty of opportunity to attack ships while traveling. Oh, did I mention stupidity like Jump Bridges and Jump Freighters didn't exist either? If you wanted to haul massive amounts of resources anywhere you had to engage in huge freighter ops that took a lot of coordination and involved a lot of risk. Good times. Then CCP introduced WTZ and further streamlined (read: removed all need for) logistics.
All that the above changes managed to do was reduce the window of opportunity for players (and pirates in particular) to access other player's wealth via PVP. Currently, the only reasonably reliable way to do so now is through suicide ganking in high sec space. The killers will go where the money is. Since CCP insists on allowing all the hyper rich carebears to live out their entire existence in high sec, the hunters have to adapt. And adapt they have.
CCP has *REPEATEDLY* nerfed the process by doing everything from decreasing Concord response times to adding in stupid pop-up windows to annoy and deter would-be high sec pirates. Clearly it hasn't worked.
Want to actually decrease suicide ganking? Push the same ultra-concentrated wealth into an area where it's more readily accessible by PVP players and you'll see a rapid decrease in the number of suicide ganks. Otherwise, it will only continue to escalate. I'm a pirate in a pirate's body. |
Federigo Mondial
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 04:43:00 -
[52] - Quote
If you can't afford to lose it, don't fly it. |
Phizban
The Needs Of The Few The Needs Of The Few Many
11
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 05:50:00 -
[53] - Quote
Atticus Fynch wrote:Well, I read a lot about "carebear tears" yet there is nothing to incite "pirate tears" in EVE. Seems kind'a one-sided. You are either predator or prey in EVE and the predators have the upper hand.
I think that is were the balance is lacking.
Liberal D-Bag spotted! |
Drachiel
Mercury LLC
0
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 05:59:00 -
[54] - Quote
It's fun.
BOOM! ZAP! PEW!
CONCORDOKKENED!
*tears*
ITT: Nerf fun.
|
Generals4
Caldari State
555
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 09:08:00 -
[55] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:[ Generals4 wrote:Ironically when mechanics allow "pirate tears" they whine and call "hax". Like the wardec shield "system" , apparently a blatant abuse of mechanics according to some "pirates". I think what you meant to say here is that when CCP call something an exploit, pirates call it an exploit too, but when CCP say something is ok, carebears call it an exploit/griefing anyway. Funny how that works.
Unless i've missed it CCP said it was perfectly fine and the pirates were like "nonono, it was an exploit and it still should be!". -Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. |
Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
200
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 09:42:00 -
[56] - Quote
Generals4 wrote:Crumplecorn wrote:[ Generals4 wrote:Ironically when mechanics allow "pirate tears" they whine and call "hax". Like the wardec shield "system" , apparently a blatant abuse of mechanics according to some "pirates". I think what you meant to say here is that when CCP call something an exploit, pirates call it an exploit too, but when CCP say something is ok, carebears call it an exploit/griefing anyway. Funny how that works. Unless i've missed it CCP said it was perfectly fine and the pirates were like "nonono, it was an exploit and it still should be!".
Propably because it was an exploit and understandably so, since allowing it breaks the entire system and gives practical immunity to certain highsec assets. The system went from somewhat working thanks to GM enforcement to being horribly broken like the current bounty system. So while there certainly have been tears about it, it's basicly just players trying to get CCP to properly fix the system, instead of giving up on it and abandoning yet another mechanic in a broken state. |
Ludi Burek
The Player Haters Corp
9
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 11:26:00 -
[57] - Quote
Mors Sanctitatis wrote: spot on
Very well explained. Pitty that not a single bear will read it with an open mind because bad people are bad and how dare they play one of the pillar roles in this game.
To me high sec suiciding for profit is the truest form of piracy there is. Plundering the shipping lanes and all that.
And suiciding random people is just damn fun when you can't be arsed playing long or can't make time. Or simply can't be arsed with the tedium in every other awsum, honorable form of PvP.
All that just doesn't fit into the little closed minds that just want to do their grind and expect everyone to act like little npcs and any act of interference with their game is griefing.
Onto the other OP point, cons of suicide ganking...listening to dumb people explaining why it "should be removed" and even dumber people that go out of their way to call high sec pirates cowards. It can't be that they just do the job they want and don't give a crap about what YOUR ideals are. |
Solstice Project
Cult of Personality
287
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 11:27:00 -
[58] - Quote
From an occiasional bounty hunters POV ...
Pros of suicide ganking ...
... red flashy ships to shoot. ... red flashy pods to shoot. ... red flashy ships that get CONCORDed and reveal red flashy pods with bounties to collect.
Cons of suicide ganking ...
... a severe secloss after shooting a ship that got CONCORDed, because the bounty pod isn't free to shoot.
In my thread, where i asked to make pods with GCC legal targets, CCP SoundWave approved of that and wrote he will bring this into the game. It's not much of a change, but it helps people like me big time and it makes sense, too.
Sadly, there's no "when" to that, so i have to keep seccing up every time i shoot a pod with a high bounty that's not flashy ... Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
Prince Kobol
101
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 13:16:00 -
[59] - Quote
There are many ways of limiting the chances that you will be a victim of a gank however a lot of people don't use them and then come crying on the forums that they were ganked.
Tank your hulks, you can get 25k EHP and still have a mining output of over 4000m3 per cycle.
Spend some time on the forums and you will find the a good number of corps who specialize in suicide ganking.. set them up in your overview to show as red.
As for haulers, you do not need to fly with BPO's for billions of isk in your badger for crying out load.
Use a frig fitted for speed.
If you are carrying cargo worth a lot of isk then tank your ship and don't AFK Travel.
Doing these simple things will limit the chances of you being ganked.
The majority of people who come crying on the forums that the were ganked deserved to be ganked because they were fly ****** fitted ships afk or were mining in a hulk with zero tank.
If you take precautions and are still then ganked then you can either put it down to experience and move on or fight back but for gods sakes stop coming here and crying about it trying to convince people that its griefing and should be banned |
Generals4
Caldari State
556
|
Posted - 2011.12.17 13:22:00 -
[60] - Quote
Quote:Propably because it was an exploit and understandably so, since allowing it breaks the entire system and gives practical immunity to certain highsec assets. The system went from somewhat working thanks to GM enforcement to being horribly broken like the current bounty system. So while there certainly have been tears about it, it's basicly just players trying to get CCP to properly fix the system, instead of giving up on it and abandoning yet another mechanic in a broken state.
But it doesn't give total immunity, you just have to spend a lot more money or use suicide ganking means. It's merely a use of mechanics to make it harder to be griefed. Just like using aggression mechanics in a dodgy way is a mean to make griefing easier. What bugs me is that using mechanics in dodgy ways to increase griefing is right while the opposite is somehow a "Gamebreaking exploit". And sure if CCP classifies it as an exploit than it is , but seeing as how the dec shield lost that status it isn't anymore and the whining is just as justified as the whining about any pro-griefing use of certain mechanics. It doesn't mean the mechanics cannot be changed in a way or an other but all the whining sometimes comes off as pathetic in my opinion. -Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |