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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Leorajev Aubaris
Blue Goat Ltd.
23
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Posted - 2016.03.23 20:15:40 -
[31] - Quote
Jadzeer DAXX wrote:
You can buy stuff using AK in the SOE LP stores.
Either it's not working for me or it's not true. I see no such thing when I open the LP store in a SOE station. |
Beta Maoye
110
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Posted - 2016.03.23 21:04:58 -
[32] - Quote
Mars Aspen wrote:This seems to me like a really bad idea. It is crude and simplistic. Control examples are so obvious and they are always of only one type. It takes very little learning to match up a control example with a reference example. So you can select any old rubbish if the slide is remotely challenging, having more than one type, and wait for the single control examples to come along. Hey presto, you can score almost as well as a really good analyst who plays with integrity. There is now no reward for trying to work through a more complex slide because you believe in the project. The gameplay is severely compromised too. Surely you can do better than this.
I understand they have to find a balance of methodology between a game and a science project. They want to make sure that the game is interesting so that people will play it. Too much negative feedback is not interesting for most players and discourage players to play the game. On the other hand, they want most players can spend time and effort to pick the right answer so that the database can be as accurate as possible.
Too simple control slides allow people to game the system and corrupt the database. Now the control slides are concentrated in low number slides and mostly single-answer. They can randomize the numbering of control slides or hide the slide number and reveal it with the result. They can make more challenging control slides that requires 2-3 choices. Even better if they can scale up the difficulty of control slides corresponding to player's ranking. In that way, the mechanic will still be challenging while keeping it interesting as a gameplay. |
Memphis Baas
1367
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Posted - 2016.03.23 21:35:52 -
[33] - Quote
You guys do remember that game players aren't looking for interesting or challenging, right? Cause if it were so, the NPCs would whoop our asses, and the PVP'ers would fight each other rather than trying to kill industrials and freighters.
Players are looking for progression and winning, which is why CCP is having these issues with people gaming the system.
Bottom line, it's not really a game, but it's presented as one. So people are going to play to win. However, I don't have to be logical or achieve anything in a game; I can go shoot the station sentry guns over and over and over, each time in a new Ibis, if that's how I want to play EVE. |
Circumstantial Evidence
265
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Posted - 2016.03.23 21:58:36 -
[34] - Quote
Leorajev Aubaris wrote:Jadzeer DAXX wrote:You can buy stuff using AK in the SOE LP stores. Either it's not working for me or it's not true. I see no such thing when I open the LP store in a SOE station.Found it, scrolling way down... This is a small problem I noted in the "March update feedback" thread. UI could be improved to help players find where to redeem AK, a special button and/or AK filter in SoE stations for the LP UI screen could help.
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Diana Crow
Fox Industries and Exploration
1
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Posted - 2016.03.23 22:03:46 -
[35] - Quote
@CCP Wonderboy
Any plans on setting the maximum accuracy rating to 100% ? Because, 99% being the maximum right now and getting 99 Experience Points and 99.000 ISK per submission (at level 100), it seems to me, like someone messed up the calculation behind all this. |
Beta Maoye
110
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Posted - 2016.03.23 22:16:15 -
[36] - Quote
The purpose of PD is to utilize the huge brain power of players in massive multiplayer game to solve science problems that require the comprehensive power of human intelligence rather than raw computing power. It has to be presented as a game. CCP knows it is not about how solid and scientific a mechanic can be. It is how players feel about the game that matter. They know they have to provide incentives rather than hard facts to player in order to exchange for their problem-solving human power. CCP's expertise in gaming is much better than a science project team. |
Jaden Noah
Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance
9
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Posted - 2016.03.24 00:10:13 -
[37] - Quote
http://prntscr.com/aj6cjc
This happens too much and is NOT right.
There is obvious cell-to-cell variations in these and they count it wrong! |
Spaminator
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2016.03.24 02:46:35 -
[38] - Quote
Meaningful activity- fun to participate.
Thanks for the updates.
I would still like to be able to stretch the window to full window resolution. Even if it gets a bit blurry- this would help us 'large monitor folks' see things better....and improve our accuracy.
-Spaminator
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Darsch Pugs
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.03.24 05:41:36 -
[39] - Quote
Murkar Omaristos wrote:CCP Wonderboy wrote:Hello scientists! Feel free to leave any feedback and suggestions here, and may the cytoplasm be with you.
omg. may the cytoplasm be with you
If only he had said May the mitochondria be with you.
Mitochondria. Eve. Mitochondria eve. Parasite eve! |
Morgan Agrivar
Peace.Keepers
302
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Posted - 2016.03.24 06:18:33 -
[40] - Quote
As a scientist, I would like to thank CCP for corroborating with scientific researchers to further ourselves in this project. Being a member of the Chromosome 19 program for the Human Genome Project, I am thankful that you brought this to members of the gaming community in order to help further science.
Thanks!
Morgan o/
This would cure me of the fear...
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Demica Diaz
SE-1
269
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Posted - 2016.03.24 10:18:39 -
[41] - Quote
What did I not noticed in this one? I am confused |
Leorajev Aubaris
Blue Goat Ltd.
23
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Posted - 2016.03.24 11:08:09 -
[42] - Quote
CCP Wonderboy wrote:Hello scientists!
However, in order to reduce the exploitability of the feature, we, in collaboration with MMOS and the HPA, have decided to stop calculating Accuracy Rating for the community consensus. Instead, we will increase the rate of training examples you get, for which you get an immediate rating.
- CCP Wonderboy
The rate of training examples should be loweredGǪ I got 2 immediately after another and overall I feel like its to often anyways.
Thanks.
PS: It would be really nice to see how all the samples that were rated by me were categorized finally. Don't know if it's possible, but it would help to really get a feel how those things are rated by the experts. |
AMARR CITIZEN 11151215
Viziam Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2016.03.24 13:44:29 -
[43] - Quote
i love this portion of the game, but whenever you add incentive, you add incentive to cut corners and cheat. i know spend the vast majority of my time, if i am not running a fleet for 4's, solving these.
because i am new to protein identification, every problem takes me a very long time. upwards of 20 minutes. you REALLY have to look closely to see if what your looking at is cellular variation, or if it happens to be caused by variations in something i dont understand, like differences in space. i also see mitochondria EVERYWHERE! after getting it wrong twice, im sure ill come across it someday!
the majority of people can/will/do not have the time or patience to dedicate 20-30 minutes to properly identifying something, if they are just beginning to learn it. in fact, in missions chat and corp chat, when i asked for advice, i was simply told "just check cytoplasm, eventually youll get level 10". that, to me, was heartbreaking. it showed that those people had no appreciation for what they were participating in, and even worse, were purposefully providing false examples for the possibility of intangible recreational electronic fiscal advancement.
when you motivate someone to do something, with profit, you motivate them to do it in the most profitable way, regardless of repercussions or consequences.
in reality, the best thing ccp could do would be remove all incentives, and leave it to only the people who want to contribute in honesty and appropriateness. of course, then very few people would participate, but all the results would be reliable, and would actually contribute to this project.
as is right now, the main thing i see to be contributed thus far, is a bunch of quick, rapid, multiple "guesses" by people who dont care about the possible damage they may be doing, or complications they may be causing, to something that is actually very serious and important.
if anything, after i get better at identifying these, accurately and quickly, i will probably move to the website so the information i submit is actually analyzed and respected, instead of being lost in a meta data bank of what is mainly people "clicking for isk, not information". seeing some of the "community census", was very disappointing
*people of earth... this is why you cant have nice things*
My posts are here for me to cite when debating in chat, or as a record to devs should they wish or require them. With rare exception, i do not monitor, or reply to posts.
please take this in consideration, reply sparingly, cite your answer. thanks
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Akira Kata
Goggles Inc.
5
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Posted - 2016.03.24 16:08:14 -
[44] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Suggestion: Tie this feature into the "flying spaceships" part of the game.
Method: At data and Relic sites, add the loot item "Special biological sample". If you have a Special biological sample in your hold or hangar when you do Project Discovery, you get the option of "Analyze special sample". If you do so, you get more Kredit and ISK. The actual samples you see are the same ones we all see, you just get more reward.
If you do not want to do Project Discovery, and have some Special biological samples, you can sell them on the market (which means they need a market slot.)
This is a great idea! |
Mars Aspen
Watchtower Bible and Tract Society
0
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Posted - 2016.03.24 17:07:37 -
[45] - Quote
Jaden Noah wrote:http://prntscr.com/aj6cjc
This happens too much and is NOT right.
There is obvious cell-to-cell variations in these and they count it wrong!
One would have to look at a green-only view to be able to tell
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Chroniccandy 420
nul-li-fy I N F A M O U S
20
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Posted - 2016.03.24 19:05:18 -
[46] - Quote
I personally dont like project discovery. I think its wack.
I guess i fail to see the fun. Owell Its a miss for me. |
Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
310
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Posted - 2016.03.24 20:54:58 -
[47] - Quote
Jaden Noah wrote:http://prntscr.com/aj6cjc
This happens too much and is NOT right.
There is obvious cell-to-cell variations in these and they count it wrong!
I fully agree with you, I have looked at samples, analysed it, picked where it should go.
Only to be told it's wrong, even though it doesn't look remotely like the answer they say it should be, some couldn't look more wrong.
I'm not sure if it's a programming error or what, but it's bloody annoying.
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3105
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Posted - 2016.03.24 23:59:56 -
[48] - Quote
Drago Shouna wrote:
I fully agree with you, I have looked at samples, analysed it, picked where it should go.
Only to be told it's wrong, even though it doesn't look remotely like the answer they say it should be, some couldn't look more wrong.
I'm not sure if it's a programming error or what, but it's bloody annoying.
More cell to cell variations has a bad example and should only be picked when half the cells have a stained nucleus and the other half don't, rather than simply a bit of brightness intensity change. I was making that mistake and E-mailed HPA about it and asked why and they said they classify it a little differently and have used their classification on the test samples. Though picking it on the community samples does let them know to look for things.
I haven't come across a single wrong test slide though, some I'd disagree with like one that had Cytoplasm+other stuff, and I didn't feel there was enough green for cyto, but I could see there was some green, so now I know another look it can have and will be able to give better answers to the other slides. |
Lillik Eoner
Merchants Trade Consortium The Last Chancers.
0
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Posted - 2016.03.25 00:18:48 -
[49] - Quote
CCP Wonderboy wrote:
This is only the first step in our attempt to improve Project Discovery and it's data quality, as we might introduce further changes to our scoring procedure. This change will also significantly reduce the heavy load on the MMOS servers and should ensure a smoother experience for everyone.
CCP Wonderboy needs to learn how to spell. Should be "its".
/lesson |
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
98
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Posted - 2016.03.25 01:12:38 -
[50] - Quote
Most of the test slides are pretty obvious. As we see more samples account-wide, it should show us trickier and messier tests.
A signature :o
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Raven Dallacort
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
0
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Posted - 2016.03.25 01:29:32 -
[51] - Quote
I'm no scientist, but how am I wrong on this? |
Limp Biscuit
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.03.25 03:06:34 -
[52] - Quote
I'd like to be able to have the chance to review the full slide after my input has been selected, and rated. Most of the time, I can only see the portion that I locked in and selected after my input has been made, thereby not allowing me to further analyze what would have been a better choice to make, based upon consensus. To have the ability to re-examine what I was looking at, and have the correct answer displayed would be beneficial for after-study. |
Maia Pallas
BlackBongWater
0
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Posted - 2016.03.25 04:34:14 -
[53] - Quote
consensus wins again:
http://imgur.com/fVuUqjH |
Pleasure Hub Node-514
Pleasure Hub Hotline
48
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Posted - 2016.03.25 05:17:20 -
[54] - Quote
Keta Min wrote:Vardec Crom wrote:Keta Min wrote:CCP Wonderboy wrote: However, in order to reduce the exploitability of the feature, we, in collaboration with MMOS and the HPA, have decided to stop calculating Accuracy Rating for the community consensus.
This is a problematic change. Now the people who are trying to game the system have no incentive to even try to be correct on the samples that don't affect accuracy. Instead of clicking cytoplasm they can now basically click anything at all. How will they know which ones don't affect accuracy? Right now the sample number is a hint. Apart from that, the control samples tend to be really clear and obvious, as opposed to the vast majority of the normal samples. Remove the sample number for starters then. I don't mind if the control samples are easy/moderate difficulty, it doesn't pay to be overly punishing to players that want to participate.
'One night hauler' The tell all story of a pleasure bot in Jita 4-4
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Gantian
Freelancer Union Unaffiliated
0
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Posted - 2016.03.25 06:25:50 -
[55] - Quote
I'd suggest having a look at players' past results, and use that to determine which types of samples most players are getting wrong. I would then modify and expand the descriptions in order to clarify the situation in future. Like many ppl are split over whether it's Cytoplasm or Vesicles often
Also, 4 examples per category simply isn't enough - make it 8 and include 'unusual' examples maybe?
I appreciate it's a work in progress, but there's room for improvement. Fantastic idea though... |
Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
19
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Posted - 2016.03.25 15:25:29 -
[56] - Quote
What I would love is that the examples react to the filter choices. So that you see what the examples would look with just blue or green. It would help clarifying difficult decisions. |
La Ahri
Project Tetragrammaton
6
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Posted - 2016.03.25 15:32:39 -
[57] - Quote
I find this change questionable at best. It's really simple to just click random answers for everything except test questions (10000000XXX) and hit 90% accuracy in 3 hours or so. I expect your results quality to get much worse in nearest future. |
Moondo
The Moomins The Unthinkables
0
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Posted - 2016.03.25 16:39:43 -
[58] - Quote
Mars Aspen wrote:This seems to me like a really bad idea. It is crude and simplistic. Control examples are so obvious and
Agree. It's still fairly easy to game the system for high accuracy.
Mars Aspen wrote: they are always of only one type.
Not true. It seems like you start to get 2-hex control samples around 85% accuracy
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Moondo
The Moomins The Unthinkables
0
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Posted - 2016.03.25 16:44:54 -
[59] - Quote
[quote=Vincent Athena]Suggestion: Tie this feature into the "flying spaceships" part of the game.
Method: At data and Relic sites, add the loot item "Special biological sample". If you have a Special biological sample in your hold or hangar when you do Project Discovery, you get the option of "Analyze special sample". If you do so, you get more Kredit and ISK. The actual samples you see are the same ones we all see, you just get more reward.
If you do not want to do Project Discovery, and have some Special biological samples, you can sell them on the market (which means they need a market slot.)[/quote
Give that man a cookie!!!! Great idea!! |
Terraj Oknatis
xX-Crusader-Xx Tactical Narcotics Team
44
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Posted - 2016.03.26 00:23:08 -
[60] - Quote
Well thank God its not may the midichlorians be with you. That would just be silly. |
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