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Uberox
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.04.05 12:30:12 -
[1] - Quote
As the game currently is, most players need to PVE in order to make ISK to PVP, however the problem is that PVE is so soulcrushingly boring normal people won't put up with it just so they can PVP.
Since it's basically impossible to make enough ISK to sustain yourself through PVP due to the majority of ISK value being destroyed, players lose motivation to continue to play the game.
Check out this recent kill - https://zkillboard.com/kill/52986643/ Players blew up a ship with 25b ISK in Skill Injectors. Regardless of the fact that the pilot was an idiot, he's not going to be coming back to play EVE again anytime soon. Thus CCP has lost a subscriber. And since the attackers have nothing to show for their efforts except high-fives all around, CCP has far undershot the amount of subscriber retention they could have had from this content.
Imagine if players got to keep even part of the 25b that they earned from the gank. The motivation they would have to keep playing the game to chase the next big payday would be enormous. But with the fact that they have nothing to show for their efforts, its nothing more than a "good job guys, here's a pat on the back".
I'm tired of being forced to PVE to PVP. A large number of gamers won't put up with it. PVE isn't changing any time soon, so please, make the game more palatable towards the general player's playstyle. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2381
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Posted - 2016.04.05 13:24:47 -
[2] - Quote
No. Your idea would destroy one of the core principles of Eve - which is that loss is meaningful. That something of real value - as determined by the time and effort it took to make it - is destroyed. GTFO.
PS - it remains to be seen whether that player quits after that loss. By the way, linking killmails is not authorized in this section of the forums.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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Anhenka
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
1618
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Posted - 2016.04.05 13:38:01 -
[3] - Quote
The word you are looking for is Insurance.
If you fly a t1 ships and platinum insure it, you get back close to the entire value of the hull of your ship for an upfront insurance cost of 30%.
That's a 70% return. If a person wants to fly without risk of significant loss, all it takes is flying a t1 ship and properly insuring it.
Good insurance for things above t1 or for all ships including cargo like you are proposing would ruin the game. As FT said, PvP in this game is motivated by loss. If killing your enemy causes them no loss, then most of the meaning goes out of PvP, and thus the game.
-10
P.S: the Loot Fairy giveth, and the loot fairy taketh away, in exactly equal proportion. Linking a KM and then trying to say that because nothing dropped in this one case that it's a huge problem is ridiculous. He had all that stuff in a can, and so the 50/50 drop rate for that can landed on the destroyed side, and everything in it by association. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1903
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Posted - 2016.04.05 13:38:03 -
[4] - Quote
There are a lot of zero sum pvp games out there. A LOT of them. Most of them aren't 10 years old and surviving.
Think about that and then ask for your post to be closed. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3171
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Posted - 2016.04.05 14:20:11 -
[5] - Quote
Ganking. Pvp that pays. A lot. FW also pays. Flying cheap ships in gangs helps too.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Cristl
390
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Posted - 2016.04.05 15:20:48 -
[6] - Quote
Uberox wrote:As the game currently is, most players need to PVE in order to make ISK to PVP, however the problem is that PVE is so soulcrushingly boring normal people won't put up with it just so they can PVP. Since it's basically impossible to make enough ISK to sustain yourself through PVP due to the majority of ISK value being destroyed, players lose motivation to continue to play the game. Check out this recent kill - https://zkillboard.com/kill/52986643/ Players blew up a ship with 25b ISK in Skill Injectors. Regardless of the fact that the pilot was an idiot, he's not going to be coming back to play EVE again anytime soon. Thus CCP has lost a subscriber. And since the attackers have nothing to show for their efforts except high-fives all around, CCP has far undershot the amount of subscriber retention they could have had from this content. Imagine if players got to keep even part of the 25b that they earned from the gank. The motivation they would have to keep playing the game to chase the next big payday would be enormous. But with the fact that they have nothing to show for their efforts, its nothing more than a "good job guys, here's a pat on the back". I'm tired of being forced to PVE to PVP. A large number of gamers won't put up with it. PVE isn't changing any time soon, so please, make the game more palatable towards the general player's playstyle. Where do we start with this post?
First and foremost, as FT said, the game needs to have meaningful loss. This is in the form of in-game time, energy and guile, or RL money via PLEX.
Second, you can earn money in PvP: those gankers in that idiotic killmail had a 50% shot at 25 billion. It came up tails. The loot fairy is fickle.
Third, let's not base these decisions on a killmail involving a lone Jump Freighter, with three cargo expanders fitted, carrying 0.25 cubic metres of cargo valued at 25 billion, that has no purpose in being transported in the first place, just two jumps from Jita. Is that RMT? Are some people that stupid? I don't have all the answers, but we aren't designing the game around these guys.
Now, a revision of insurance and salvage we might discuss. Maybe allow destroyed ships to drop some minerals or valuable metal scraps recoverable by salvagers. Maybe get the Noctis back in the game with a dedicated bay for holding this heavy salvage. I don't know.
But not your zero-sum idea. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
1903
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Posted - 2016.04.05 15:27:18 -
[7] - Quote
I hope a long term game goal is to get rid of insurance. It's just silly in a space game. Seriously, how in debt is that insurance agency? How is it still solvent? |
Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
667
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Posted - 2016.04.05 15:36:49 -
[8] - Quote
Uberox wrote:Players blew up a ship with 25b ISK in Skill Injectors. Regardless of the fact that the pilot was an idiot, he's not going to be coming back to play EVE again anytime soon. Thus CCP has lost a subscriber. And since the attackers have nothing to show for their efforts except high-fives all around, CCP has far undershot the amount of subscriber retention they could have had from this content.
Why do you assume that kind of loss will drive someone out of the game? |
Cristl
390
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Posted - 2016.04.05 16:10:09 -
[9] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:I hope a long term game goal is to get rid of insurance. It's just silly in a space game. Seriously, how in debt is that insurance agency? How is it still solvent? True. I still think it's needed for low-tier PvE though. maybe reduce it in level 3 and 4 missions. Maybe adjust the payout based on the security type of the system you were in, or the ship you were flying (so Pend, you pay out the same percentage for Prowlers and Sabres, seems realistic).
It is definitely daft and immersion-breaking right now, but then so is not being able to disable and salvage, or outright take as prize, enemy vessels.
Still, these would probably be quite developer intensive changes. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6608
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Posted - 2016.04.05 16:41:25 -
[10] - Quote
Uberox wrote:I'm tired of being forced to PVE to PVP. A large number of gamers won't put up with it. PVE isn't changing any time soon, so please, make the game more palatable towards the general player's playstyle.
While I agree that PVE in EVE is ****, CCP would be better to focus their efforts on making it not ****. There are plenty of groups out there that have ship replacement programs & no, they're not all nullsec groups. Find one, join them, never worry about having to do ****** PVE ever again.
This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
11598
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Posted - 2016.04.05 18:54:55 -
[11] - Quote
Uberox wrote:. But with the fact that they have nothing to show for their efforts, its nothing more than a "good job guys, here's a pat on the back".
They got a pretty amazing killmail, precious snowflake.
Quote:I'm tired of being forced to PVE to PVP. A large number of gamers won't put up with it. PVE isn't changing any time soon, so please, make the game more palatable towards the general player's playstyle.
If you feel that your only money-making option when the coffers run low is PVE content, you're doing something wrong. There's a myriad of things to do in this game to make money, only a part of which is shooting dumb red crosses on the screen.
Got a HoleySheet1 corpse? I'll buy it for 200m!
Bumble's Space Log
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Fat Buddah
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
23
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Posted - 2016.04.06 05:10:14 -
[12] - Quote
Quote:I'm tired of being forced to PVE to PVP
My main toon PVP a lot and lose ton of money yet the wallet grows everyday coz I do remote trading while flying around, camping, afk cloaking ,etc. So I do market PVP in order to make ISK for space PVP. Haven't shot at an NPC for a long time until couple days ago when I came across this monster NPC rat (forgot the name but it dropped a Barghest bpc).
"Ha, I bet you got the seed money for your trading from PVE!" you might say, but no. The seed money for my trading activity came from a lol scam many many years ago.
If yo don't like PVE, don do it. There are so many things you can do in EVE. For example, look at the mercs. They get paid to pvp. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3133
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Posted - 2016.04.06 05:49:15 -
[13] - Quote
So, Op believes PvE being boring is an issue. Then lets change PvE to be less boring....... Not try and link this issue to PvP somehow. |
Kenrailae
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
545
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Posted - 2016.04.06 05:50:10 -
[14] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:No. Your idea would destroy one of the core principles of Eve - which is that loss is meaningful. That something of real value - as determined by the time and effort it took to make it - is destroyed. GTFO.
PS - it remains to be seen whether that player quits after that loss. By the way, linking killmails is not authorized in this section of the forums.
This^
Plus how easy it is to make isk on an alt, and how prolific buying/selling plex/injectors is..... Sustaining PVP isn't really a huge obstacle anymore. Now back in my day, you ran Level 4's on an alt to fund your PVP and you liked it!
With a salvage Caty! Hurricane if you were real uppity!
The Law is a point of View
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Caleb Seremshur
Gladiators of Rage RAZOR Alliance
754
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Posted - 2016.04.08 06:25:36 -
[15] - Quote
Uberox wrote:As the game currently is, most players need to PVE in order to make ISK to PVP, however the problem is that PVE is so soulcrushingly boring normal people won't put up with it just so they can PVP. Since it's basically impossible to make enough ISK to sustain yourself through PVP due to the majority of ISK value being destroyed, players lose motivation to continue to play the game. Check out this recent kill - https://zkillboard.com/kill/52986643/ Players blew up a ship with 25b ISK in Skill Injectors. Regardless of the fact that the pilot was an idiot, he's not going to be coming back to play EVE again anytime soon. Thus CCP has lost a subscriber. And since the attackers have nothing to show for their efforts except high-fives all around, CCP has far undershot the amount of subscriber retention they could have had from this content. Imagine if players got to keep even part of the 25b that they earned from the gank. The motivation they would have to keep playing the game to chase the next big payday would be enormous. But with the fact that they have nothing to show for their efforts, its nothing more than a "good job guys, here's a pat on the back". I'm tired of being forced to PVE to PVP. A large number of gamers won't put up with it. PVE isn't changing any time soon, so please, make the game more palatable towards the general player's playstyle.
From a purely business perspective they probably don't care all that much. Did the guy not basically pay 25 months worth of plex at $18ea to ccp? So in essence they made their minimum viable return from him in just a much shorter time period. The more idiots like him the better, they're self regulating and over all don't have the influence to really hurt the game either in game or out of game.
Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate.
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2726
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Posted - 2016.04.08 12:20:28 -
[16] - Quote
Uberox wrote:Check out this recent kill - https://zkillboard.com/kill/52986643/ Players blew up a ship with 25b ISK in Skill Injectors. Regardless of the fact that the pilot was an idiot, he's not going to be coming back to play EVE again anytime soon. Thus CCP has lost a subscriber.
Beside pulling it out of your own ass, do you have any information if the guy really un-subbed or did he just consider his loss part of the game and kept on trucking? |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
794
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Posted - 2016.04.08 13:31:32 -
[17] - Quote
Cidanel Afuran wrote:Uberox wrote:Players blew up a ship with 25b ISK in Skill Injectors. Regardless of the fact that the pilot was an idiot, he's not going to be coming back to play EVE again anytime soon. Thus CCP has lost a subscriber. And since the attackers have nothing to show for their efforts except high-fives all around, CCP has far undershot the amount of subscriber retention they could have had from this content. Why do you assume that kind of loss will drive someone out of the game? We can argue whether the player in the linked kill mail quit as a result of the gank, we can argue whether players quitting because gank is good or bad for the game in fact we can argue about a great many things related to players quitting because gank. That players DO QUIT because gank is not something that can be argued about it is a fact, players have in the past, do currently and likely will quit in the future because gank.
Now to the other part about whether a player would quit over a 25 bil IKS loss due to a gank, do we really need to go into that. Over the years I have had corp members quit because gank of a 2 mil ISK ship, I have seen players loose more than 25 bil in ganks and it did not bother them at all, they simply increased prices on the stuff they sell to cover it over time. Quitting because gank has many reasons, some may because of a big ISK loss while others may quit simply because they wrongly thought Concord would protect them and when they are rudely awakened from the day dream they just don't want to be here anymore. |
Cidanel Afuran
Static-Noise Upholders
691
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Posted - 2016.04.08 13:39:35 -
[18] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:We can argue whether the player in the linked kill mail quit as a result of the gank, we can argue whether players quitting because gank is good or bad for the game in fact we can argue about a great many things related to players quitting because gank. That players DO QUIT because gank is not something that can be argued about it is a fact, players have in the past, do currently and likely will quit in the future because gank.
Now to the other part about whether a player would quit over a 25 bil IKS loss due to a gank, do we really need to go into that. Over the years I have had corp members quit because gank of a 2 mil ISK ship, I have seen players loose more than 25 bil in ganks and it did not bother them at all, they simply increased prices on the stuff they sell to cover it over time. Quitting because gank has many reasons, some may because of a big ISK loss while others may quit simply because they wrongly thought Concord would protect them and when they are rudely awakened from the day dream they just don't want to be here anymore.
A lot of assumptions in this.
I've had corp mates who stayed in the game because of ganks. They realized how serious losses were, it excited them and they kept with it. The fact that that person who was killed has bought multiple characters, including freighter and capital pilots on the bazaar suggests he's experienced and just made a stupid decision/was drunk/etc. to me |
Arya Ikahrus
48
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Posted - 2016.04.08 15:50:09 -
[19] - Quote
The answer is to make PvE more interesting, not remove one of the main things that makes PvP interesting. |
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