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za3phyr
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Posted - 2007.02.15 11:46:00 -
[1]
Edited by: za3phyr on 15/02/2007 11:42:47 do armor compensation skills affect armor resistance rigs (same quiestion goes for shield versions), or do they affect only (passive) modules?
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Janus Ovellian
Minmatar Encina Technologies Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.02.15 12:43:00 -
[2]
They affect the 'active' modules only when you haven't switched them on - or they've not got enough cap to run.
Interesting times await... |
za3phyr
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Posted - 2007.02.15 12:45:00 -
[3]
i know that. what i want to know, do they affect rigs?
example: i fit shield em rig, which gives me 30% to shield EM resistances, does 20% from my shield compensation lvl 4 apply to this 30% ?
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Gefex
Thunderbolts
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Posted - 2007.02.15 13:36:00 -
[4]
No, compensation skills only apply to modules, as the description says.
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Isiss Svorxvo
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Posted - 2007.02.15 17:05:00 -
[5]
So.....
If for the most part you're always running hardners, are these skills worth training?
It looks like to me that on quickfit, these skills also affect the stacking penalty.
Also, Do these skills have an effect on the EANM II, even if they could boost an EANME II from say 20% to 25%, I would see them as worth it to train for armor, but idk about sheilds since there is only the invul feild there which is active.
I've always wondered about theses skills and if they were worth the time or not (to level 4 at least)
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zorgluba
Doom Guard
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Posted - 2007.02.15 17:21:00 -
[6]
Compensation skills work on : - passive hardeners - active hardeners when not on
They work for eanm (and inactive invul). They are not base res increase but a % increase of the mod bonus.
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Isiss Svorxvo
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Posted - 2007.02.15 17:39:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Isiss Svorxvo on 15/02/2007 17:37:24
Originally by: zorgluba Compensation skills work on : - passive hardeners - active hardeners when not on
They work for eanm (and inactive invul). They are not base res increase but a % increase of the mod bonus.
Ok so that means that if I wanted to use them for.....let's just say sheilds.
I have to use a passive hardner (resistance amp) to get any real benefit, and that they aren't actually a 5% increase like they say but a boost to the mod itself?
Example - the description reads as if I am using an EM resistance amplifier II at 37.5% resist, and if I train EM sheild compensation up to lvl 5 I would get 37.5% + 25% for a total of 62.5%. This would make a passive tech 2 resistance amp pretty much as good as a faction or officer hardner.
This is the way i read them .....but what you are saying is that instead they work like this:
37.5% x 1.25 = 46.875% ?
If this is true, AND we already know that they do not effect active hardners or rigs, then what a time sink waste of freakin time that is IMO.
I feel that if I spent a month or better taining these skills to level 5, I should see better benfit than a 9% overall increase to an item thats not even as good as a tech 1 hardner. Doesn't make much sense to train the skills if this is the case.
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Estel Arador
Minmatar AFK
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Posted - 2007.02.15 20:17:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Isiss Svorxvo I feel that if I spent a month or better taining these skills to level 5, I should see better benfit than a 9% overall increase to an item thats not even as good as a tech 1 hardner. Doesn't make much sense to train the skills if this is the case.
Or you should figure out what the skill does exactly and determine whether or not it's worth it for you to spend a month or better training these skills. It certainly is worth it for some pod pilots; if you're not one of them, don't train them. Not every skill has to be usefull for everyone. =AFK=
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Isiss Svorxvo
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Posted - 2007.02.15 20:38:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Isiss Svorxvo on 15/02/2007 20:43:37 Edited by: Isiss Svorxvo on 15/02/2007 20:35:07
Originally by: Estel Arador
Originally by: Isiss Svorxvo I feel that if I spent a month or better taining these skills to level 5, I should see better benfit than a 9% overall increase to an item thats not even as good as a tech 1 hardner. Doesn't make much sense to train the skills if this is the case.
Or you should figure out what the skill does exactly and determine whether or not it's worth it for you to spend a month or better training these skills. It certainly is worth it for some pod pilots; if you're not one of them, don't train them. Not every skill has to be usefull for everyone.
That's what I am trying to do, as evident by the question marks in my post. Thanks for your well thought out and informative post. It really helped to answer the questions.
So, if you know the definitive answer for what these skills do and what benfit one would get for training them, then please enlighten those of us that are asking.
Once again, slowly this time:
Do these compensation skills add base resist to passive modules of 5% per level, or are they a multiplier applied to the module?
Is the equation (for tech II passive) 37.5% + 25% (lvl 5)?
Or is it 37.5% x 1.25?
If the answer is the latter, what benefit would one have in training these skills, especially for sheild as there are not passive items on sheilds like an EANM for armor?
Why would one want to use passive resistance amps over even tech 1 harnders if the skills add a multiplicative value to the final resistance number?
If there is a benefit in training these skills, I would like to know, which is why I asked the questions.
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Estel Arador
Minmatar AFK
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Posted - 2007.02.15 20:48:00 -
[10]
I'm sorry. I interpreted "then what a time sink waste of freakin time that is IMO" as a whine and felt obligated to point out that some people actually think the skill is usefull. =AFK=
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Isiss Svorxvo
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Posted - 2007.02.15 21:00:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Estel Arador Edited by: Estel Arador on 15/02/2007 20:45:44 I'm sorry. I interpreted "then what a time sink waste of freakin time that is IMO" as a whine and felt obligated to point out that some people actually think the skill is usefull.
The answer is the latter. The benefit is that you can get (nearly) the resists of active hardeners without using any cap.
nps m8 :P and ty for the response :P
Wasn't a whine, just expressing how I see the skills now learning there true meaning. The description can be a little misleading on alot of skills in EVE without proper research, so I'm glad I haven't bought and trained them yet .
I just see it like this:
Tech 2 hardners cost 2 cap per second. With good energy management skills, even 4 hardners at 8 cap per second isn't expensive in cap at all.
Seems to me it's just more beneficial to invest time and training into tech 2 harnders and energy management skills than into the compensation skills for sheilds, now that I've learned how they work exactly.
Armor comensation would be a little different though as they affect EANM's and if you could even get a 5% overall boost to those mod's, it'd be worth alot of training time.
To each his own though
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Lowanaera
Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria
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Posted - 2007.02.15 21:01:00 -
[12]
The answer is the latter, multiplicative. With compensations at V, an EANMII is 25% to all, not 45%. You are correct, in most cases there isn't much point in training the shield compensation skills. For armor tankers, it's quite important.
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Mr Krosis
The humble Crew
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Posted - 2007.02.16 04:08:00 -
[13]
The passive shield hardeners do have some purposes.. they are nicer on frigates where the cap use actually is noticable. That being said if you're in PvM, a larger ship will usually get the job done better, and in PvP smaller ships often fit tackle gear in the mids not shield hardeners. It's also nice if you're building a true passive tank to make you more NOS-resistant.
-- Mr Krosis The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance; it is the illusion of knowledge. |
EPSILON DELTA
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Posted - 2007.02.16 14:18:00 -
[14]
hardners adds to your resistance whatever resistance that's not covered 50% hardner on a ship with 50% base resist will get you 75 (if only 1 is used) thats 0.5 x (100-50) increase from the hardner hardners are stack nerfed too so the second one will give a lower boost to resist, though its still worth it.
additionally when they say 50% resist bonus its dosnt really matter what value it adds to your resist, say at 50 resist you take 100x0.5=50 damage, at 75 resist (after putting on a 50% hardner) you will take 100x0.25 =25 damage, which is essentially half the damage you used to take.
-------------------------------------------------- Yes I'm a forum alt, what you going to do about it? |
StewedSquirrels
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Posted - 2007.02.16 23:52:00 -
[15]
The primary use those skills for shields is for passive tanks.
I know many people who fly a drake or a Nighthawk with a 100% passive shield tank with heavy missles and drones. They are totally NOS resistant as they use absolutely zero cap for anything. Good thing too because the mods that boost the shield recharge drop the cap recharge to nearly zero.... those folks couldn't even run the active hardeners for extended periods without draining the cap dry...
So while they're not totally useless for shields, they are limited.
For armor, they are essential. I love the 1x T2 explosive hardener + 3x EANMII domi tank. :-) I only have the comp skills to level 4 myself...
Stew
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