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Rinai Vero
Moira. Villore Accords
789
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Posted - 2016.04.21 22:16:21 -
[31] - Quote
John Revenent wrote:Well don't expect to garner any respect from others outside this little agreement.
Oh my, have I put my until now pristine reputation at risk? /swoons |
John Revenent
Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
473
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Posted - 2016.04.22 00:01:55 -
[32] - Quote
Rinai Vero wrote:John Revenent wrote:Well don't expect to garner any respect from others outside this little agreement. Oh my, have I put my until now pristine reputation at risk? /swoons
I can see this type behavior is a normality for you. Noted.
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned."
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Sinjin Mokk
Angelis Exploration
840
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Posted - 2016.04.22 00:16:33 -
[33] - Quote
I find it interesting Ms. Vero that you and Mr. Bete and Mr. Ixiris, paragons of Gallente concepts of "freedom," are so quick to censor Ms. Kim.
Yes, she is contrary. Yes, she is argumentative. Yes she is almost delusional at times, especially in her devotion to what she sees as "loyalty to the State." Yes she is free from the burden of facts.
But if we censor or remove her today, who will be censored or removed tomorrow? Nauplius? His words are unpopular. Mizhara Del'thul or Utari Onzo? They're pretty unmovable in their viewpoints. Me? You?
This isn't a popularity contest. This is a forum for the free exchange of ideas. If Amarr loyalists can sit here and tolerate Sanist heretics, you can sit here and stomach Diana Kim.
The IGS has seen far worse personalities and abuses of rhetoric over the years. If you want to ignore her, that's fine. But for this place to have any meaning, even the most vapid of pilots must be able to express themselves here.
There is nothing passive in your aggression.
"Angels live, they never die,
Apart from us, behind the sky.
They're fading souls who've turned to ice,
So ashen white in paradise."
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Karina Ivanovich
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
13
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Posted - 2016.04.22 00:46:06 -
[34] - Quote
Do we not all love and hate? Why is it that we love to hate one another and hate to love the things that matter? It is because man is a race ruled by lust, fear and violence. To show compassion is to become disassociated from the majority of humanity. To show a hint of kindness is to show weakness. And weakness, in a dog eat dog world, is to become the proverbial bone to be chewed upon. Ask not and ye shall receive, take and it shall be yours, lie and the door shall be opened to you.
What do we truly know of our fellow man? We know hair and skin color, the way they walk and carry themselves and the style of clothing they like to wear. For those that we are closer to, such as work colleges or casual acquaintances, we know certain mannerisms and speech patterns and musical preferences. From our close friends and family members we know of hobbies and foods they enjoy, and personal feelings. But, beyond the superficial details, do we ever truly know someone?
Is the smile genuine on his face? Does she truly enjoy reading fantasy novels? Does she really believe in a higher power? Does he actually feel alright? Do they mean it when they say that they "are fine"? We only know what people choose to tell us. Yet eyes can lie to us, as do people.
And what do we really know of ourselves? If I ask who you really are; will you have an answer? I know that I do not. That fact is troubling. If our fellow man cannot identify himself than what do we know of the world around us?
To end is permanent. To begin is indefinite. To tolerate is eternal.
I rue the day I talk of dithers, Wandering from souls without. But now I speak unto the listeners. Telling them about my lies. I tell them not to trust my speaking. A riddle left unto their eyes. The liar speaks but spouts out answers. Can we trust the self made prize?
Creep ye now on silent pastures.
Moving through the paths of life.
Question not the things that matter.
Just live this world of love and strife.
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Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
1103
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Posted - 2016.04.22 01:11:41 -
[35] - Quote
Morwen Lagann wrote:Jaret Victorian wrote:Deitra Vess wrote:Isn't that some Acurian noodle or something? It is, I had some for lunch so that's where the word came from. Would you say it was a... Freudian slurp?
What is a 'Freudian'? Is it named after a person?
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
1047
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Posted - 2016.04.22 01:20:14 -
[36] - Quote
It's a sub conscience thought you say out loud without thinking about it. Dunno where the name came from.... |
Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
1103
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Posted - 2016.04.22 01:22:47 -
[37] - Quote
Deitra Vess wrote:It's a sub conscience thought you say out loud without thinking about it. Dunno where the name came from....
Huh. So, it's a pre-Dark Age word then.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Rinai Vero
Moira. Villore Accords
791
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Posted - 2016.04.22 02:45:52 -
[38] - Quote
Sinjin Mokk wrote:I find it interesting Ms. Vero that you and Mr. Bete and Mr. Ixiris, paragons of Gallente concepts of "freedom," are so quick to censor Ms. Kim.
Mssr. Mokk, let me be the first to thank you for bringing up the freedom of speech and censorship ramifications of the Pact. What you've brought up may be the only thing worth discussing in this thread, my OP included!
The fact is that this isn't a "censorship" issue at all. We don't have any authority over anyone. We can't force them to think or speak any particular way.
It has been tradition as old as the concept of freedom of speech that for there to be any room for productive dialogue there must be moderation. No society can function if every time its members attempt to discuss an issue of importance they allow one extreme individual to stand in the middle screaming over a personal grudge. If the IGS were any Gallente local assembly, or a Caldari corporate meeting, or an Amarr congregation, or a Matari tribal council... any person acting as our troll acts would have been kindly (or not, depending) escorted out long ago.
But, the IGS can't practically enforce such standards of common decency through its authorities.
What we rely on in this community more than anything else is self moderation. When an individual steps out of line from the extremely broad and generally permissive mainstream of the IGS, the rest of the community respond by expressing their disapproval. Individuals at that point either choose to moderate themselves, or not. We have all experienced this process, and most of us have enough respect for each other to keep ourselves in check most of the time.
One person in particular has decided to cast themselves in almost total opposition to that process, and utterly refuses to moderate herself. Almost everyone has pleaded that this person participate in a manner in which she expresses her views without constantly injecting her personal vendettas into unrelated discussions.
Why should such behavior not be responded to as bluntly and dismissively as possible after all this time? |
Andreus Ixiris
Duty. Mighty Wings.
5892
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Posted - 2016.04.22 03:42:25 -
[39] - Quote
Mr. Mokk, if you believe that proponents of freedom believe in absolute freedom, or are opposed to tthe rule of law, you'd be committing the same error as the individual in question. Freedom, in fact, cannot exist without structures to support and protect it. Societies without such protections inevitably fall prey to people who abuse the lack of consequences, which is why anarchy is inherently unstable and untenable. Meaningful human interaction requires a specific amount of structure. Too much and you stifle the creative process, but too little and you are inevitably stifled yourself by whoever can shout the loudest.
Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.
Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.
Andreus Ixiris > ...
Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
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Karina Ivanovich
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
13
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Posted - 2016.04.22 03:49:13 -
[40] - Quote
Despite our factions disagreements, I cannot find fault with anything Mr Ixiris has stated. Structure does lead to freedom. And while too much freedom can be detrimental, within the confines of a well structured society, it can lead to a myriad of societal boons.
Some call me insane. If the universe is sane, then I embrace that label.
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Elmund Egivand
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
1104
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Posted - 2016.04.22 04:13:36 -
[41] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Mr. Mokk, if you believe that proponents of freedom believe in absolute freedom, or are opposed to tthe rule of law, you'd be committing the same error as the individual in question. Freedom, in fact, cannot exist without structures to support and protect it. Societies without such protections inevitably fall prey to people who abuse the lack of consequences, which is why anarchy is inherently unstable and untenable. Meaningful human interaction requires a specific amount of structure. Too much and you stifle the creative process, but too little and you are inevitably stifled yourself by whoever can shout the loudest.
So, you are saying that a certain someone is engaging in too much freedom?
As I have always believed, even in a state of total freedom, freedom will always be checked by consequences. Rob enough families and you will have a mob coming for your head eventually. Shout too much and someone will come over to gag you or cut your tongue off. After all, if you have too much freedom to do whatever you want, others too will have too much freedom to do whatever they want. Checks and balances are already put into place even in a state of anarchy. Do X and Y happens, resulting in Z being done back at you. Everyone is bound to the same rule even without realising it.
Unfortunately, people seem to neglect that, thinking that with freedom there is no consequence to their actions when the reason why it didn't look like there are any consequences is because the others are adhering to rules checking their behaviour. They also forget that consequence is already happening, it's just not plainly visible and it take some time to build up steam.
A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
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Rinai Vero
Moira. Villore Accords
791
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Posted - 2016.04.22 04:22:37 -
[42] - Quote
Elmund Egivand wrote:
So, you are saying that a certain someone is engaging in too much freedom?
Might one characterize such behavior as the worship of chaos? |
Jennifer Maxwell
Crimson Serpent Syndicate Heiian Conglomerate
352
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Posted - 2016.04.22 05:11:25 -
[43] - Quote
A Gallente championing a movement to ignore someone?
I take it you enjoy setting yourself up for failure? |
Anabella Rella
Gradient
2151
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Posted - 2016.04.22 05:55:35 -
[44] - Quote
Sinjin Mokk wrote:I find it interesting Ms. Vero that you and Mr. Bete and Mr. Ixiris, paragons of Gallente concepts of "freedom," are so quick to censor Ms. Kim.
Yes, she is contrary. Yes, she is argumentative. Yes she is almost delusional at times, especially in her devotion to what she sees as "loyalty to the State." Yes she is free from the burden of facts.
But if we censor or remove her today, who will be censored or removed tomorrow? Nauplius? His words are unpopular. Mizhara Del'thul or Utari Onzo? They're pretty unmovable in their viewpoints. Me? You?
This isn't a popularity contest. This is a forum for the free exchange of ideas. If Amarr loyalists can sit here and tolerate Sanist heretics, you can sit here and stomach Diana Kim.
The IGS has seen far worse personalities and abuses of rhetoric over the years. If you want to ignore her, that's fine. But for this place to have any meaning, even the most vapid of pilots must be able to express themselves here.
There is nothing passive in your aggression. You've missed the entire point. No one is condemning Kim for her opinions but rather her penchant for derailing every thread she posts in thus stifling legitimate attempts at communication and free speech. Her constant off-topic posting seriously undermines what the IGS is supposed to be about.
When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.
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Veikitamo Gesakaarin
Therable Multicultural F1 Brigade
1879
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Posted - 2016.04.22 08:33:15 -
[45] - Quote
Karina Ivanovich wrote:
And what do we really know of ourselves? If I ask who you really are; will you have an answer?
Yes. An alcoholic mass-murderer with a penchant for recreational narcotics between bouts of high-explosive violence.
Or a recreational mass-murderer with a penchant for high-explosive violence between bouts of alcoholism.
Same difference.
Her Excellency, Generalissimo for Life, Divine Commodore, Doctor Veikitamo Gesakaarin, Phd., Bsc., Lord of all the Crash in the Hangar and Regent of Saisio and Conqueror of the Minmatar Republic in Aldodan in General and Evati in Particular.
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Mizhara Del'thul
Coreli Corporation Mercenary Coalition
748
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Posted - 2016.04.22 08:40:32 -
[46] - Quote
Anabella Rella wrote:You've missed the entire point. No one is condemning Kim for her opinions but rather her penchant for derailing every thread she posts in thus stifling legitimate attempts at communication and free speech. Her constant off-topic posting seriously undermines what the IGS is supposed to be about.
I'll reiterate. The few disruptive voices has never been the problem. The IGS can always handle a few people babbling inanely in various threads, whether it's topical or not. It's frankly the norm in every public fora. The problem here has never been these people, but you and those like you who instead of doing the reasonable thing and ignoring them, choose to engage and actually derail all the topics in doing so.
They're not a problem until you and yours make them a problem, and then make it worse with these nonsensical and childish tantrums.
Ignore them. Don't feed them.
Problem gone. |
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