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Jimi Crackcorn
Directed Evolution Corp
3
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Posted - 2011.12.18 04:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
Everyone I talk to says just stay in hi sec till tech 2, but that seems so boring. There must be something you can do without waiting months for tech 2. |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
541
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Posted - 2011.12.18 04:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
You are talking to the wrong people.
You can do fine in 0.0 fighting in T1 ships and fittings. And considering how many losses you will have when starting out, it's better to do it that way in the first place.
Mr Epeen If you can read this, you haven't blocked me yet. |
DarkAegix
Acetech Systems
586
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Posted - 2011.12.18 04:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
In RVB you'll find plenty of opponents with meta fits. It almost balances itself out, in some ways. By using meta guns with lower fitting requirements you could possibly squeeze on a better tank. |
Klown Walk
0nslaught.
12
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Posted - 2011.12.18 04:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
There is alot more tech 1 ships being used over tech 2. For fitting I would wait for tech 2 guns, being able to use ammo with a bonus to range helps so much. |
Roh Voleto
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
60
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Posted - 2011.12.18 05:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
Stop listening to boring people. Fit a ship you can easily replace many times over, leave highsec, blow up. Then you try to figure out why you blew up, and try to prevent it the next time. |
Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
49
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Posted - 2011.12.18 05:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:You are talking to the wrong people. You can do fine in 0.0 fighting in T1 ships and fittings. And considering how many losses you will have when starting out, it's better to do it that way in the first place. Mr Epeen +1
Can't believe that I'm agreeing with Mr Epeen. This feels wrong.
@ the OP: Go cheap and have fun. If you feel flush, throw some ISK at Meta 3 and 4 modules for better fitting and performance.
Those touting the "Tech 2 or no-go" rule may be thinking about large, "important" alliance ship fittings which usually require tech 2 or greater. That's not applicable to you and do not worry about it.
BTW, some of the most dangerous and effective PvPers are flying in cheap tech 1 hulls.
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
567
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Posted - 2011.12.18 05:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
Not sure if troll or genuinely inexperienced.
First off, you can go out and have PvP fun hours after character creation. If you keep delaying until you just get that next thing... you're probably not going to go out of highsec any time soon, if at all, ever. Don't wait for anything, if you want to go PvP, just do it, NOW. But consider your ship lost the moment you undock though, so plan accordingly. That keeps being valid even 5 years down the line and at dozens of millions of SP anyway, so it's good practice.
Second, not all T2 takes months to use. In fact, the most useful T2 things (tanking gear, damage mods, etc) are quite "cheap" skill-wise. Sure, the T2 ships take a while longer to train for, but with the exception of incursions (where reward can go down with additional people) there won't be a single person who rejects an extra ship for a roam or a fleet fight or anything else, no matter how shabby that ship might be. It's all about trusting the person to not stab you in the back, and it's slightly easier to trust somebody who's not likely to be that much of a problem directly even if he turns (indirectly, the risk is just as great regardless of what you fly).
Finally, T2 is relatively hard to fit compared to T1 or low-grade named T1, and it's not exactly cheap either. A ship fit with cheap named T1 stuff needs far less fitting skills to make it work and is far less of a financial burden to replace. And if you PvP, you WILL replace it sooner rather than later. So even if you have the skills to use T2 stuff, you might still want to fly mostly T1 for a variety of reasons. In fact, a lot of vets (especially those that still earn their ISK the old-fashioned grindy way) will PvP in T1 ships with a smattering of named T1 and T2 gear (T2 usually for weapons, some of the tank and the damage mods, named T1 for the rest).
So... no idea who you're usually talking to, but you can tell them to shove it. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Contributor_name:Akita_T#Contributions_link_collection |
Alaric Faelen
Aquila Venatici Bringers of Death.
18
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Posted - 2011.12.18 05:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
the answer is....kinda.
Being able to fit a T2 tank is most important. In many cases, the Meta 4 module is preferred over the T2 variant for weapon systems. Being able to use faction ammo greatly enhances damage output, and usually doesn't require the skill level required for T2 ammo.
It's possible to run a fully T1 fitted ship in a gang, but mostly because you may be over looked as a target simply because you're not much of a threat. This leaves a solo PvP'er in a quandry over WHEN to PvP......there is little use in losing a ship with a pricey T2 tank if your weapons aren't going to do enough DPS to break the other guy's tank.
I'd feel a lot more confident taking at ship with T1 weapons but a T2 tank out to PvP than vice versa.
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Selinate
166
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Posted - 2011.12.18 05:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
Klown Walk wrote:There is alot more tech 1 ships being used over tech 2. For fitting I would wait for tech 2 guns, being able to use ammo with a bonus to range helps so much.
...Every time I go out to PvP, I find at least twice the number of T2 ships than T1, no matter whether it's low sec, or whatever.
Not saying anyone is wrong in telling him to get out there and shoot at things and blow up himself, but still, I don't think what you're saying is necessarily true... |
Selinate
166
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Posted - 2011.12.18 05:10:00 -
[10] - Quote
Akita T wrote: First off, you can go out and have PvP fun hours after character creation.
Well sure you can PvP hours after character creation, but I'm not sure you can define constantly getting insta-popped while trying to PvP as "fun"... I guess it's just whatever you're into, masochism, w/e :P |
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
567
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Posted - 2011.12.18 05:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
Selinate wrote:Klown Walk wrote:There is alot more tech 1 ships being used over tech 2. For fitting I would wait for tech 2 guns, being able to use ammo with a bonus to range helps so much. ...Every time I go out to PvP, I find at least twice the number of T2 ships than T1, no matter whether it's low sec, or whatever. Not saying anyone is wrong in telling him to get out there and shoot at things and blow up himself, but still, I don't think what you're saying is necessarily true... Well, that's easily explainable. The cheaper your ship, the more risks you take (more likely to go on distant roams without scouts and very few or no friends, for instance, also more likely to engage almost everything you see) and so, the faster you lose it on average. The more expensive your ship, the less risks you take (travel in larger groups and in more familiar territory, blob, use scouts, avoid fights you're not likely to win, ) so the average lifetime of your expensive ship ends up being noticeably higher. So, WHAT you encounter depends on what and where you fly, and who you're flying with. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Contributor_name:Akita_T#Contributions_link_collection |
Professor Alphane
Alphane Research Co-operative
3
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Posted - 2011.12.18 05:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
As in the old adage 'it's not what you know it's who you know'
'It's not what you fly it's who you fly it with'
PvP isn't really an easily accessable solo occupation as far as I see it.
Why?
I suppose 'politics' is the easiest answer.
Low sec you'll face pirate gangs who you are unlickely to be able to tackle alone.
Null sec you will encounter large organised alliances who will defend there territory aggresively.
My advice to you would be bold faced and contact a nullsec alliance, tell them you are a low skill point player interested in PvP in the game and ask wether there alliance has any interest in helping you develop as a such.
At worst they say 'No GTFO noob' , though some might see the wisdom in giving you a step up, another gunner never goes amiss.
YOU MUST THINK FIRST.... |
Selinate
166
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Posted - 2011.12.18 05:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
Akita T wrote: Well, that's easily explainable. The cheaper your ship, the more risks you take (more likely to go on distant roams without scouts and very few or no friends, for instance, also more likely to engage almost everything you see) and so, the faster you lose it on average. The more expensive your ship, the less risks you take (travel in larger groups and in more familiar territory, blob, use scouts, avoid fights you're not likely to win, ) so the average lifetime of your expensive ship ends up being noticeably higher.
So, WHAT you encounter depends on what and where you fly, and who you're flying with. And even if the number of T1 ships in use would be noticeably higher than that of T2 ships, you're still more likely to end up facing T2 ships (or, at least, have your encounters end when you come across one).
Erm... doesn't matter where I fly, what I fly, or who I fly with, it always ends up being mostly T2 ships that I come across. The majority of encounters I face don't involve a T1 ship (unless it's my BC).
Akita T wrote: Well, you can, doesn't mean you should. Not as a genuine newbie anyway. But as a freshly rolled alt of a wealthy pilot, getting constantly popped in cheapo-fit Rifters (of which you could easily have hundreds stashed away in several stations) can actually be quite darn fun.
Ok, then don't make it sound like a brand spankin' new player should just go out and try PvPing hours after their character was created and expect results. That's sure what it seemed like you were saying... |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
60
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Posted - 2011.12.18 05:45:00 -
[14] - Quote
Don't start out PvPing in anything but the cheapest fit ships imaginable, for the love of god. [img]http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sig.php?r=*rnd*[/img] Desusigs can be seen on the terribad new forums using bbcode enabling script (scroll down to my post for sig rotation) |
Skorpynekomimi
E.A.D Alliance Omega Vector
16
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Posted - 2011.12.18 05:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
T2 hulls? No. You need something insurable and expendable that won't break the bank.
T2 modules? YES YES YES. Some are pretty much essential, like the LSE2, and maybe resists. T2 guns are optional, but usually recommended. Don't go overboard on expensive ****; you WILL lose it eventually. |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power. Cascade Imminent
154
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Posted - 2011.12.18 06:06:00 -
[16] - Quote
nah
T2 modules are handy, but those don't take long to train for Most 0.0 battles are waged via tech 1 BS and BCs with some T2 support and even cheap quick tackle frigs are very common |
Harold Tuphlos
Broski Enterprises Elite Space Guild
33
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Posted - 2011.12.18 06:12:00 -
[17] - Quote
Never not peeveepee. http://kb.gonnahate.org/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=5199 Note the reaper second from the bottom, it is one of the reasons that kill happened. It is an alpha clone alt that I warped in and got him to aggress, which kept him from jumping through the gate he was on when the rest of the fleet warped in. The skills needed to pvp are not in game but rather the knowledge to use what you have to kill them.
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Hakaru Ishiwara
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
50
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Posted - 2011.12.18 06:50:00 -
[18] - Quote
Akita T wrote:... there won't be a single person who rejects an extra ship for a roam or a fleet fight or anything else, no matter how shabby that ship might be. I respectfully disagree. There are some fleets where certain ship types are necessary and while low-skill tacklers might be helpful in some instances, they are more than likely spies or too lazy to get the ISK to field the right gear. Bringing the rifter to the Guardian and AHAC fleet is insulting to those who spent the training time and ISK on their gear. And the T1 tackle really does nothing for the gang. Bait maller on the other hand...
For more casual roams and other non-specialized fleets, the low-skill pilot in a tackle ship is usually welcomed.
Akita T wrote: It's all about trusting the person to not stab you in the back, and it's slightly easier to trust somebody who's not likely to be that much of a problem directly even if he turns (indirectly, the risk is just as great regardless of what you fly). ...
So... no idea who you're usually talking to, but you can tell them to shove it. +1
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baltec1
248
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Posted - 2011.12.18 07:07:00 -
[19] - Quote
A t1 caracal still makes a good anti-frig ship. |
Jimi Crackcorn
Directed Evolution Corp
3
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Posted - 2011.12.18 07:14:00 -
[20] - Quote
Akita T wrote:Not sure if troll or genuinely inexperienced..
I know this is off topic but what's with everyone on here jumping to troll all the time? Really? On a question like this? Like do you really need to post the disclaimer on every post? I can't conceive any possible way that a thread asking a simple question(a legit one at that as all I ever hear is t2 this or t2 that and judging by some of the answers, I'm not alone) could be trolling. |
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Gorefacer
STRAG3S NEM3SIS.
2
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Posted - 2011.12.18 07:28:00 -
[21] - Quote
Being Caldari I started PVPing with t1 fit kestrels. Lost dozens quickly, then moved up to damp caracals and lost dozens of those. It helped me to get in and shoot things and experiment what worked and what didn't. By the time I was using Drakes and Ravens I had at least a reasonable grasp on how to survive and contribute to the fleet without doing anything spectacularly stupid.
I think at the beginning it's more important to get some experience roaming and fighting in different situations than focusing on what you bring. Expect to die a lot most likely at first. |
Florestan Bronstein
United Highsec Front The 99 Percent
206
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Posted - 2011.12.18 07:36:00 -
[22] - Quote
You don't have to take every single fight.
Some T2/faction ships are hard to take on in only T1 hulls even if you have a numbers advantage (thinking mostly of Vagabonds/Cynabals but all kinds of kiting setups do also apply).
Essential T2 ships for your own gang are a covops scout who can do combat probing and give warpins, recon(s) to catch things (Lachesis or Huginn) and sufficient Logistics. As long as you have these everybody else can bring T1 hulls.
As for modules - it has been said before: a T2 tank really helps (also get your armor compensation skills to at least 3/4 if you fly armor). "T1 is often ok for weapons" is generally true with some caveats - such as that if you are flying (pulse) laser platforms you really, really need T2.
Tackle/scouting is almost always welcome and if you want to become an absolutely invaluable part of any fleet you can train a competent prober within 3-4m SP total. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
2107
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Posted - 2011.12.18 07:40:00 -
[23] - Quote
Jimi Crackcorn wrote:I know this is off topic but what's with everyone on here jumping to troll all the time? Really? On a question like this? Like do you really need to post the disclaimer on every post? I can't conceive any possible way that a thread asking a simple question(a legit one at that as all I ever hear is t2 this or t2 that and judging by some of the answers, I'm not alone) could be trolling. A game this age, every topic has been a troll at some point. This particular question commonly precedes a rant about how unfair EVE's skill system and long learning times are, and it's also a question that you could conceivably figure out on your own with a bit of sleuthing and theory-crafting.
That said, I've increasingly found it easier to do the opposite: assume that even the most obvious troll is serious and respond to it as such, because even if the troll isn't, you just know that there are a whole bunch of people who are in fact fully serious about the braindead complaint the troll is using. And if it isn't a troll, you might just as well have a proper discussion about the topic instead.
Oh, and as for the OP: not only is it possible, but I'd even say that it's more fun that way. Toss together a Meta-3 fit and you'll get a fit that's maybe 70% as effective as an all-T2 fit (at the same skill level), but you get it at something along the lines of 5% the price GÇö you can bash that one about with a complete disregard for your (and everyone else's) safety.
Also, as others have mentioned, doing it this way means you learn how to get blown up without being all that bothered about it, and that's a surprisingly important skill to have. The sooner you can get rid of that GÇ£onoz, my ship!GÇ¥ sentiment, the better you'll do now and in the future. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
If not, contact Miss DSA to shed your wardecs. |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
253
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Posted - 2011.12.18 07:52:00 -
[24] - Quote
Jimi Crackcorn wrote: without waiting months
Yes we all play EVE for instant gratification. And if you ask the devs very nicely they will give you skill points so you don't have to spend years maxxing out your skills.
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Jimi Crackcorn
Directed Evolution Corp
3
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Posted - 2011.12.18 08:04:00 -
[25] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:Jimi Crackcorn wrote: without waiting months Yes we all play EVE for instant gratification. And if you ask the devs very nicely they will give you skill points so you don't have to spend years maxxing out your skills.
Now this, this is a good example of a troll. Why take my question completely out of context to prove some pointless point? It's a simple question, yes you have to wait months to pvp if you want to be good, or no, you don't. There's no reason to come in here with that kind of attitude. |
Captain Mastiff
12
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Posted - 2011.12.18 08:07:00 -
[26] - Quote
Welcome to Eve, a game that requires patience rather than skill to improve. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
223
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Posted - 2011.12.18 08:39:00 -
[27] - Quote
Captain Mastiff wrote:Welcome to Eve, a game that requires patience rather than skill to improve.
Unless it's "forum PvP." "Just because I seem like an idiot, doesn't mean I am one." ~Unknown |
Captain Mastiff
12
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Posted - 2011.12.18 08:39:00 -
[28] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Captain Mastiff wrote:Welcome to Eve, a game that requires patience rather than skill to improve. Unless it's "forum PvP."
Pew pew to you Sir |
Cletus Graeme
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
3
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Posted - 2011.12.18 10:27:00 -
[29] - Quote
Jimi Crackcorn wrote:Everyone I talk to says just stay in hi sec till tech 2, but that seems so boring. There must be something you can do without waiting months for tech 2.
What game are you playing?
In this EvE age of battlecruiser blob fests, the Drake and the Cane are arguably two of the most overpowered ships currently in use.
CCP has just added 4x Tier 3 T1 BC hulls (designed specifically for PvP) to the game. This is AFTER adding 4x Tier 2 T1 BC hulls some years ago.
CCP also added 4x Tier 3 T1 BS hulls some time ago - again all designed for PvP.
Back in the day (before CCP changed probing) 0.0 fleet warfare revolved around sniper T1 BATTLESHIPS.
Both T1 BC and T1 BS are still used a lot in PvP - even today.
EvE is now 8 years old so of course plenty of players can fly T2. Don't let that stop you from killing them! |
Dr Karsun
Coffee Lovers Brewing Club Care Factor
39
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Posted - 2011.12.18 12:48:00 -
[30] - Quote
Tech 1 fitted ships can be useful, mostly because of the effect -> enemies don't know what your fit is untill they kill you. Making you a valid target and in their eyes, an equally dangerous enemy.
Besides, another web, another warp disruptor and another chunk of dps is always useful. Find an alliance that appreciates it.
For example click my sig and read up about us. "Have you had your morning coffee?" -> the Coffee Lovers Brewing Club is recruiting! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=363976#post363976 |
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