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Sixty Seven
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Posted - 2007.02.19 03:57:00 -
[1]
I'm sure it's been discussed, but why the large gap between hauler sizes?
I have a Badger II with about 8700 m3 space, and the next size up appears to be a Charon with 785k m3 and sells for 500m to 1b isk. What gives? Why no intermediate haulers in the 100k m3 range?
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Gealbhan
Caldari The Big Sky Corp
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Posted - 2007.02.19 04:11:00 -
[2]
The Bustard.
It's a tech II badger, more space I believe. That would fall between a badger and a Charon.
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Aleria Angelis
Galactic Express
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Posted - 2007.02.19 04:14:00 -
[3]
*is hoping for the day when CCP bring out "small" freighters*
GEPT opens its doors! |
Ranita Drell
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Posted - 2007.02.19 04:29:00 -
[4]
Well, you could also ask why there is no intermediate step between battleships and dreadnoughts, or between any two ship classes (I suppose the gap between frigate and destroyer is pretty small though, heh).
Do you want a meta-game reason for it is the way it is, or something that makes sense in the context of the game world itself?
A "in game" rationale I suppose could be that ships are built to meet demand and fulfill certain purposes. An industrial is useful for hauling ore and moderate to large amounts of goods (as a trading vessel for someone with limited capital, or a loot hauler for non-industrial types, etc). Armored transports are built for the same purpose but do so somewhat more securely. Blockade runners are for getting significantly smaller but still fairly large amounts of goods to a destination safely through hostile territory. Each ship is uniquely engineered for its purpose and fulfills it rather well.
However, there might come a point where there are difficulties in engineering a vessel capable of storing more cargo than the best industrials without sacrificing other qualities which make industrials and transports useful/viable. Diminishing returns set in so it's not worthwhile to build a ship with twice the cargo size of the Badger II because it might possess all of the drawbacks of a freighter while still enjoying only a tiny fraction of the cargo space ... maybe a Badger III would have 70% more cargo space, but fly at 1/2 the speed (sublight and warp) and have three times the mass, with a larger signature radius, much higher cost to build and require that the pilot be familiar with skills not covered under the normal training required to fly industrials and transports.
That being the case, the corps and individuals who design these ships may not be convinced that there is sufficient demand to make designing and manufacturing such a ship worthwhile, and think the market is served well enough by the various iterations of normal industrials, tech 2 industrials, and freighters.
A meta-game reason might work along a similar line of reasoning. Not that CCP couldn't make an intermediate class ship to bridge the cost/cargo gap between industrials and freighters, but maybe they don't figure it's worthwhile because it's just not something that players are clamoring for (or maybe they are, I don't know), and the current setup is more or less sufficient?
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Allantia
FW Inc Kith of Venal
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Posted - 2007.02.19 07:13:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Gealbhan The Bustard.
It's a tech II badger, more space I believe. That would fall between a badger and a Charon.
Nope. Transport ships (T2 haulers) are for more specialized roles. Each race has 2 trasnport ships, a blockade runner and a deep space transport. The blockade runners are faster and with a build in warp-strength bonus, while the deep space transports have heavier shield/armor and can fit heavy tanks. Both of them have cargoholds similar to or smaller than their T1 counterparts.
Lots of people have requested some type of baby transport that could hold a few hundred thousand m3 and (ideally) be equipped with a jump drive.
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Loc Maythan
Gallente Alfa00 Corp
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Posted - 2007.02.19 09:32:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Loc Maythan on 19/02/2007 09:31:25 With the right combination of equipment and skills, it is possible to get an Iteron V up to 53,000 m3. This is with:
Gallente Industrial V 5 x Cargohold Expander II 2 x Cargohold Optimization II rig 1 x Cargohold Optimization I rig 13 x Giant Secure Container
Without containers, ship is 41,841m3; with containers, 53,541m3.
Note that I have not tested this - these figures come from QuickFit. However, the method should be sound - I currently get 32,000 m3 from my Iteron without the rigs.
I also haven't done the calculation for the Badger, but would expect it to be of the same order of magnitude.
Now this is obviously not in the 100,000 range you were hoping for, but is considerably better than 8,700m3.
Loc
Edit. Also note that the 41,000 is one space, whereas the 53,000 is multiple 3,900m3 spaces. This will determine the types and sizes of cargo you can carry. For ore/minerals keep the containers; for bigger items - ships, for example - drop the containers as required.
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kolette
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Posted - 2007.02.19 10:44:00 -
[7]
i get on my iteron mk5 33420k+ m3 with 5 locals and 2 cargo optimizations no cans, like Loc Maythan calculations even so you dont have to fly the badger i see lots of caldari flying the iterons just need gallente industrial lvl 5 in my opinion i think its its worth it but up to you good luck
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Fenrec Deac
Malkalen Enterprises
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Posted - 2007.02.19 13:51:00 -
[8]
Talking about Apples and Grapefruits .... The Badger MK II ... badger ..badger .. badger .. is a Industrial Ship. It is able to pick up stuff in space. Whereas the Charon is a Freighter. It can only carry stuff from Station to Station ( Afaik, correct me if I'm wrong, mine is in production right now). It is not able to pick up stuff in space. For now the Ity V is the best Hauler out there when it comes to Industrial ships. It takes a while to get the needed skills for it though. The freighter class was not implemented from the beginnnig of the game, there have only been Industrial ships. Maybe in the future we will see more classes in between thoose two.
Co-CEO
now recruiting ! |
Sixty Seven
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Posted - 2007.02.19 13:54:00 -
[9]
thanks all for the feedback...
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Sixty Seven
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Posted - 2007.02.19 16:05:00 -
[10]
Did a little research on the recommended set-up for 50k m3 of haulage.
The cargo opt 1 = 46m x 3 = 138m (cargo opt 2 not available in region)
cargo hold 2 = 12m ea x 5 = 60 mil
ship = 1m
total ~ 200m
Not a starter set-up for sure :)
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Loc Maythan
Gallente Alfa00 Corp
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Posted - 2007.02.19 16:44:00 -
[11]
Sorry - I forgot to mention that it is quite expensive (at least in noob terms) to get that kind of space, not to mention the amount of time required to get to <race> Industrial V. However, still quiet a bit cheaper than the 1 billion or so for a freighter, and you need <race> Industrial V to get <race> Freighter I anyway.
Even if a mid-sized ship were introduced, the cost and skill requirements would/should still be higher than a maxed out industrial.
Loc
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Tunajuice
Convergent Firmus Ixion
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Posted - 2007.02.19 17:06:00 -
[12]
200 mil is less than the cost of a L4 mission running battleship.. its very doable.
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Ranita Drell
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Posted - 2007.02.19 17:49:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Ranita Drell on 19/02/2007 17:45:43
Quote: Even if a mid-sized ship were introduced, the cost and skill requirements would/should still be higher than a maxed out industrial.
And if you're flying a maxed out industrial, you're not that far away from being able to fly a freighter (at least in terms of skill -- cost is another story, but then maxing out your industrial with mods and rigs costs a pretty penny as well, and if you need to haul more than 35-40k m3 in a single trip, maybe you aren't far from being able to make the necessary investment in a freighter).
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Allantia
FW Inc Kith of Venal
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Posted - 2007.02.19 17:50:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Sixty Seven Did a little research on the recommended set-up for 50k m3 of haulage.
The cargo opt 1 = 46m x 3 = 138m (cargo opt 2 not available in region)
cargo hold 2 = 12m ea x 5 = 60 mil
ship = 1m
total ~ 200m
Not a starter set-up for sure :)
Definetly not, nor is it something to be taken within farting distance of lowsec. It will probably take you about 30 days to train the 5th level industrial skill anyway... and it's worth pointing out that if you do get to the point where you've got that trained, you also open yourself up to those T2 haulers so you can be pretty much immune to hi-sec suicide gankers, and can make hauls to lowsec in relative security - though you don't have massive cargo with those (but good for the high value items, like T2 stuff). Also it should put you within 2 weeks training time or so of a freighter, at least once you get the isk for skills and ship.
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Letouk Mernel
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Posted - 2007.02.19 17:56:00 -
[15]
Yeah, pretty much what's been said; a ship with a cargo size in the 100-200k range would probably cost over 200 mil ISK, probably 500 mil. Like everything else in EVE, if you want to save time and make one trip instead of two or three, you have to pay a heavy price for it.
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