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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
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CCP RedDawn
C C P C C P Alliance
755
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Posted - 2016.04.25 11:43:13 -
[1] - Quote
Hi all.
After releasing some information regarding this during Fanfest, I'd like to get your feedback on two new Storyline exploration modules.
I propose to release two new mid slot 'hacking' modules, that can open both Data and Relic containers. This would free up a mid slot for all explorers who wish to use these modules, rather then having to fit both the Data and Relic Analyzers separately. However as these modules would combine two separate 'functions' together, they will be less effective generally than their individual, specialised counterparts.
The BPC's for these modules would drop from all Data exploration sites. The GÇÿLigatureGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer BPC would drop from the lower end Info Shard and Com Tower containers, while the GÇÿZeugmaGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer BPC would drop from the higher end Mainframe and Databank containers.
Now on to the stats.
GÇÿLigatureGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer
Volume5 m3 Activation Cost20 GJ Optimal Range5000 m Activation Time / Duration10 seconds Virus Coherence30 Virus Strength15 Virus Utility Element Slots2 Tech Level1 CPU usage25
GÇÿZeugmaGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer
Volume5 m3 Activation Cost20 GJ Optimal Range6000 m Activation Time / Duration10 seconds Virus Coherence 50 Virus Strength20 Virus Utility Element Slots2 Tech Level2 CPU usage30
To manufacture these modules, you will require the following:
GÇÿLigatureGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer
Relic Analyzer I x1 Data Analyzer I x1 High-Tech Data Chipx500 High-Tech Manufacturing Tools x500 High-Tech Scanner x500
GÇÿZeugmaGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer
Relic Analyzer II x1 Data Analyzer II x1 High-Tech Data Chipx1000 High-Tech Manufacturing Tools x1000 High-Tech Scanner x1000
You will also require both of the same Data and Relic skills that the Tech I and Tech II current analyzers use.
That's it for now, please share your thoughts, ideas and concerns.
Fly safe, (and thanks for an awesome Fanfest yet again) CCP RedDawn
Team Space Glitter
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
5978
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Posted - 2016.04.25 11:52:52 -
[2] - Quote
Not a bad idea, I think. Especially considering that some people swap them around with a mobile depot, so the end fit wouldn't be that different, just more cargo space (Not entirely sure how common this is. I just have anecdotal data on it. May be worth checking Eve Metrics, or bugging Quant.)
For people wanting to compare: They're 10 weaker coherence than the T1/T2 versions, 5 weaker on strength, and take 5 more cpu. and have one less slot to store things you find (like the coherence improver thing)
I'm running again for CSM 11, and I'd appreciate your vote.
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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elitatwo
Eve Minions The-Company
1175
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Posted - 2016.04.25 11:55:30 -
[3] - Quote
While I can see the benefits of having one mod to rule them all, they look very expensive.
The idea isn't bad but I would still stick to my 2 tech 2 mods on my Astero / Stratios for the task at hand. Now if the mods would have a tad more range to warrant the price, that would be a different story.
Say 7000m for the t1 and 8000m for the t2.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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Dr Zemph
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
5
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Posted - 2016.04.25 11:56:53 -
[4] - Quote
Why not a scriptable analyzer instead? Something like the current sensor booster where you have one module that could hack both moderately well, or you can script it to hack either a data or a relic can really well.
I like the idea of one module that does both, but not one that takes up twice the space. There are some exploration ships that suffer from a small amount of mid slots and I don't see the added benefit of taking two mids to achieve one task
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Canenald
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
84
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Posted - 2016.04.25 11:56:56 -
[5] - Quote
I don't think this will be used a lot. The hacking minigame is already random and fatal enough (for the loot at least) that you'll want to max out your virus strength as much as possible. There's in general two kinds of explorers I've encountered so far:
1) Focusing only on relic sites for the best loot. They don't give a **** about integrated analyzers because they only do relic sites.
2) Doing both. If I can't find a good relic site at least I'll get decent loot from those 10 data sites. We usually don't need the extra mid.
The one use where I can see it as useful is for newbro explorers who need that scan strength more than virus strength, so they can free up a mid and put an array in it. I don't see this happening much if the storyline modules remain expensive. |
Carbon Alabel
The Alabaster Albatross Sev3rance
10
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Posted - 2016.04.25 11:59:30 -
[6] - Quote
I like the idea, but don't see myself using them as I don't consider the extra mid slot to be worth the significant decrease in virus strength. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
5978
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Posted - 2016.04.25 12:00:28 -
[7] - Quote
Dr Zemph wrote:Why not a scriptable analyzer instead? Something like the current sensor booster where you have one module that could hack both moderately well, or you can script it to hack either a data or a relic can really well.
I like the idea of one module that does both, but not one that takes up twice the space. There are some exploration ships that suffer from a small amount of mid slots and I don't see the added benefit of taking two mids to achieve one task
Uh, it doesn't take up twice the space? It's taking up half the space, as you only need to have one fitted? That's the entire point?
I'm running again for CSM 11, and I'd appreciate your vote.
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Noene Drops
Deep Chain Diving
23
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Posted - 2016.04.25 12:00:46 -
[8] - Quote
The idea sounds good, however there's one popular use case for hacking skills: having Archaeology V but Hacking IV. Of course ghost sites encourage training Hacking to V too, but is there any chance of "T2" version of these modules to change its stats based on what level of hacking skills you have? Maybe this could be achieved by using different versions of scripts for integrated analyzers. |
Aiken Paru
Anoikis Nomads EvE-Scout Enclave
0
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Posted - 2016.04.25 12:04:21 -
[9] - Quote
GÇÿZeugmaGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer
- virus strength of a T1 analyzer - coherence between T1 and T2 - only 2 instead of 3 utility slots - 5 more CPU compared to a single T2, 25 less than both modules
Hmmm... most exploration ships -- including some Interceptors -- have no issue fitting both analyzers.
I can't help feeling that these modules try to fill a niche that in reality isn't there.
With the reduced coherence compared to a T2 module this new module is pretty much out of question for Interceptors. Those exploration hulls who don't have enough midslots for both 'traditional' analyzers have enough cargo for a mobile depot.
Personally I don't see the little bit of convenience that the Zeugma adds worth the downsides. Less CPU is nice but exploration ships generally aren't very tight on CPU to begin with unless fitted with Expanded Probe Launchers.
How about a scripted module?
GÇÿLigatureGÇÖ Integrated Analyzer is so weak compared to a T1 I see no use whatsoever. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
5978
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Posted - 2016.04.25 12:04:22 -
[10] - Quote
Noene Drops wrote:The idea sounds good, however there's one popular use case for hacking skills: having Archaeology V but Hacking IV. Of course ghost sites encourage training Hacking to V too, but is there any chance of "T2" version of these modules to change its stats based on what level of hacking skills you have? Maybe this could be achieved by using different versions of scripts for integrated analyzers.
Your skills do affect them?
Archaeology adds 10 to virus coherence per level (for relic analyzers), and hacking does the same for data analyzers)
I'm running again for CSM 11, and I'd appreciate your vote.
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Canenald
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
84
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Posted - 2016.04.25 12:04:59 -
[11] - Quote
Makes no sense to make it scripted. Scripts make sense in a fight were you have to wait for the cycle to finish then click through the script change. Out of combat, when there's no pressure, you might as well let it do both things well without scripts, but I'm strongly against that. Specialized analyzers give us choice, and eve is fun because of all the choices you have to make. |
Dr Zemph
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
5
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Posted - 2016.04.25 12:06:11 -
[12] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Dr Zemph wrote:Why not a scriptable analyzer instead? Something like the current sensor booster where you have one module that could hack both moderately well, or you can script it to hack either a data or a relic can really well.
I like the idea of one module that does both, but not one that takes up twice the space. There are some exploration ships that suffer from a small amount of mid slots and I don't see the added benefit of taking two mids to achieve one task
Uh, it doesn't take up twice the space? It's taking up half the space, as you only need to have one fitted? That's the entire point?
Ah, damn, good catch. Guess I mis-read the volume.
Still think scripting is a better way to go though, in my humble opinion |
Scotsman Howard
S0utherN Comfort Circle-Of-Two
107
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Posted - 2016.04.25 12:19:25 -
[13] - Quote
I applaud the idea, but I do not see it being used to much. Ignoring the price, if I am going exploring, I am going to max out on the virus strength. As an explorer, the loss of a mid is acceptable because I am not setup primarily for combat. Yes, you can fight, but you fit the ship for a job.
Now, if these had the same virus strength, then I would actually use it, but if I am going to be flying an astero or cov ops around, I would lose the mid for max effeciency. |
Noene Drops
Deep Chain Diving
23
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Posted - 2016.04.25 12:29:31 -
[14] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Noene Drops wrote:The idea sounds good, however there's one popular use case for hacking skills: having Archaeology V but Hacking IV. Of course ghost sites encourage training Hacking to V too, but is there any chance of "T2" version of these modules to change its stats based on what level of hacking skills you have? Maybe this could be achieved by using different versions of scripts for integrated analyzers. Your skills do affect them? Archaeology adds 10 to virus coherence per level (for relic analyzers), and hacking does the same for data analyzers)
Apologize if I made it unclear but I was addressing the requirements:
Quote:You will also require both of the same Data and Relic skills that the Tech I and Tech II current analyzers use.
The way I understand it, I won't be able to use "T2" module if I have one of the hacking skills not at V. So I suggested that scripts could solve that. The modules themselves could differ by base stats and initial bonuses to hacking. |
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere Coalition of the Unfortunate
1652
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Posted - 2016.04.25 12:56:06 -
[15] - Quote
Considering every explorer I know carries a mobile depot in their hold to change things around, I don't see why not... warping off, deploying a depot, changing your modules, scooping and warping back, is not fun gameplay... so a single module would work fine. |
Savant Alabel
Raging Angels Pure Blind Cartel
61
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Posted - 2016.04.25 13:09:59 -
[16] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Not a bad idea, I think. Especially considering that some people swap them around with a mobile depot, so the end fit wouldn't be that different, just more cargo space (Not entirely sure how common this is. I just have anecdotal data on it. May be worth checking Eve Metrics, or bugging Quant.)
For people wanting to compare: They're 10 weaker coherence than the T1/T2 versions, 5 weaker on strength, and take 5 more cpu. and have one less slot to store things you find (like the coherence improver thing)
Some people refit with depot, but most of other just skip datasites. |
Lavayar
Russian SOBR Dream Fleet
276
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Posted - 2016.04.25 13:26:13 -
[17] - Quote
How about adding scripts to this new module to make them as efficient as specialised modules? |
Jean-Jaques Keikira
Signal Cartel EvE-Scout Enclave
9
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Posted - 2016.04.25 13:26:56 -
[18] - Quote
It's somewhat counter-intuitive to the typical meta. A weaker module is going to be useful only in weaker sites (high-sec), meaning there is less potential risk that would need to be mitigated with an extra mid (tank, ecm, etc). If I'm hacking in null or a WH, I really don't want to risk losing cans, so the most powerful Data/Relic Analyzer is worth the extra slot or time in a Mobile Depot. I would never use it in a Sleeper Cache or Ghost Site where my ship is on the line while hacking.
I suppose it would allow for more use of the Scanning modules (Pinpointing, Rangefinding, etc), because three of them are usually contending for 1-2 slots. But then again, if you need the scanning boost, you probably need the virus bonuses more. That being said, there's really no downside to more exploration modules. I'm sure somebody will find a use for it somewhere. It's just filling a niche that is limited to non-existent right now.
I would say that re-balancing Data Sites and adding more interactive sites like the Sleeper Caches would be far higher on most explorer's radar than new modules. Many people just skip Data Sites (and the Analyzer) entirely now because Relics are so much more lucrative. |
Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2461
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Posted - 2016.04.25 13:44:51 -
[19] - Quote
The idea is interesting, but the modules are way too expensive for the low stats, which make them useless compared to the specialized modules.
Why add a new module that combines both but is worse when you can just remove both modules and add 1 new module that is as good as the former specialized ones? Wasn't Fozzie happy about the removal of the module clutter that the old ECCM modules were, and now you add new clutter?
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
5799
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Posted - 2016.04.25 13:48:25 -
[20] - Quote
Max virus strength is too important to consider using these.
But don't throw this idea out (it's not a terrible idea in principle like the daily chore idea; it's just an unrefined one).
These are an example of something that could be balanced by rarity. Mirror the T2 stats, but aim for a high price tag, perhaps in the 800-1100m range.
Gives people an option to risk more exploring for faster sites and will lead to hilarious killmails.
I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Sabriz's Rule: "Any time someone argues for a game change claiming it is a quality of life change, the change is actually a game balance change".
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Yadaryon Vondawn
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
115
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Posted - 2016.04.25 13:57:45 -
[21] - Quote
I have been waiting for such a module for such a long time :)
One thing I have to ask though: Why incorporate 3 of the 4 high-tech items and not all 4?
As for the debate above, I think there should be a third faction version of this module that compares with the current tech 2 data/relic analysers. This item should be very rare and expensive to make.
I think such a module is great for exploration ships and especially for sleeper sites!
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Rivr Luzade
Kenshin. DARKNESS.
2461
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Posted - 2016.04.25 14:05:47 -
[22] - Quote
Yadaryon Vondawn wrote:I think such a module is great for exploration ships and especially for sleeper sites! In particular in sleeper sites this module is worthless because you need the high coherence and virus strength of a T2 to reliably and quickly hack the cans in order to not blow up (in particular in the Superior Cache). Lower coherence and strength weigh a lot more than a saved mid slot that cannot be filled with anything meaningful.
UI Improvement Collective
My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
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Valence Benedetto
South of Heaven Ltd Blades of Grass
3
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Posted - 2016.04.25 14:33:20 -
[23] - Quote
I think you guys should just ask yourselves whether having separate modules for data and relic makes EVE a better or more interesting game. Personally, I don't see it.
Related - exploration is considered one of the beginner-friendly ways to play EVE. So there is some further argument for streamlining. |
Yadaryon Vondawn
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
115
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Posted - 2016.04.25 14:34:19 -
[24] - Quote
Rivr Luzade wrote:Yadaryon Vondawn wrote:I think such a module is great for exploration ships and especially for sleeper sites! In particular in sleeper sites this module is worthless because you need the high coherence and virus strength of a T2 to reliably and quickly hack the cans in order to not blow up (in particular in the Superior Cache). Higher coherence and strength weigh a lot more than a saved mid slot that cannot be filled with anything meaningful. The only thing this module will achieve is more people exploding in these sites because they got tricked by CCP into thinking that an open mid slot is better than higher coherence/strength. In general, however, I agree with Sabriz Adoudel's post. The suggested price tag is a bit excessive, though.
I know! Hence my suggestion to create a faction version that is on par with current T2 data/relic modules. I consider sleeper sites the pinacle of exploration challenge and as such I think it would be fitting to engage those sites with a similiar high class module :)
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Amak Boma
Dragon Factory
185
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Posted - 2016.04.25 14:34:29 -
[25] - Quote
give gnosis bonus to using the faction modules lets say 10% coherence and virus strenght kick off weapon bonus for gnosis and allow gnosis to use covert cyno or reduce speed penalty for using non-covert cloaking devices |
Gospadin
Bastard Children of Poinen Grumpy Space Bastards
258
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Posted - 2016.04.25 14:45:31 -
[26] - Quote
Can someone explain to me the gameplay value of having separate relic and data sites with identical mechanics?
Fitting 2 modules isn't a meaningful choice at all. 2x the skills, 2x the modules, for the same outcome. (Though admittedly crappy on data sites).
IMO just have a single hacking module with a single skill that works on both, and move on. |
Gospadin
Bastard Children of Poinen Grumpy Space Bastards
258
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Posted - 2016.04.25 14:46:32 -
[27] - Quote
Valence Benedetto wrote:I think you guys should just ask yourselves whether having separate modules for data and relic makes EVE a better or more interesting game. Personally, I don't see it.
Related - exploration is considered one of the beginner-friendly ways to play EVE. So there is some further argument for streamlining.
Exactly my point. I don't see anything interesting from keeping them split. |
Thea Jones
Republic University Minmatar Republic
8
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Posted - 2016.04.25 14:47:19 -
[28] - Quote
I really believe you are making this overly complicated.
Merge the Hacking and Data analyzers into just 1 module. You can make faction versions that gives you better range as well as higher strength.
And just leave it as that.
TLDR.. there really is no real need to have this as two separate modules anymore. |
Jack Hayson
La Luna Negro inPanic
365
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Posted - 2016.04.25 14:50:26 -
[29] - Quote
Why would you want to hack data sites? They only drop worthless cr*p anyway. |
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2414
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Posted - 2016.04.25 14:58:11 -
[30] - Quote
As a ceptor explorer I need to max out my strength because of the non-bonused hull, so I wouldn't use a module with lower strength. Anyway it's too expensive for a 30m ship and there are not many situations where I would need both analyzers as I'm going either for relic or (in drone lands) data sites. As an explorer hunter I appreciate the introduction of new expensive modules of course.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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