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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Circumstantial Evidence
304
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Posted - 2016.04.27 00:35:27 -
[31] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:...a themepark MMO which forces you towards an 'endgame' location, rather than a sandbox where every area of space is of equal value but different activities. If you provided an example of different activities locked to different areas, I bet it would spawn a new round of arguing. To suggest something extreme: make refining equal everywhere, but impossible in nullsec. THAT would certainly promote different activities in different areas of space... note that I'm not actually proposing this. I worry about a "theme park" trend due to upcoming daily activity rewards, something EVE hasn't had before. Nullsec has always been a theoretically more profitable area & location for "endgame content." Best passive isk generation (moons). Best belt ratting. iHubs. |
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
7068
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Posted - 2016.04.27 02:50:18 -
[32] - Quote
Removed a troll post.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
388
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Posted - 2016.04.27 04:25:20 -
[33] - Quote
It would still be better if you nuked the idea of the broker fees passing to the owner of the station - or at least ensure the fee was static and could not be manipulated by the station owner outside of the skills of those making market transactions.
That said: Thank you for updating us on the status of the fees since the patch notes were absent of this information.
Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.
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Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
1332
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Posted - 2016.04.27 04:38:45 -
[34] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:The currently planned market tax values are: 3% BrokerGÇÖs Fee- Reduced to 2.5% with skills and 2% with both skills and max NPC standings
- Is sunk from the game in NPC stations, is paid to owners in outposts, is customizable and paid to owners in Citadels
- Skills and standings donGÇÖt apply in player structures
BrokerGÇÖs fee formula: 3% brokers fee - ([Broker Relation skill level]0.1 + [Faction Standing level]0.03 + [Corp Standing level]*0.02) 2 % Transaction Tax- Reduced to 1 % with max skills
- Is sunk from the game in all locations and is not customizable
Are existing orders impacted in any way?
Are there any other special cases to the way Citadel markets work compared to NPC stations? Do they support ranged buy orders etc? |
Lugh Crow-Slave
2317
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Posted - 2016.04.27 05:37:18 -
[35] - Quote
Can we please tax compression?
Right now there is very little reason to refine in a citadel that isn't closer to a trade hub and even beyond that there will be plenty of public ones with 0 tax. If ppl can just compress in mine for free why would they ever refine there. A DST can move over 1M of ore after compression.
Beyond that why can't I charge for a service I'm paying to provide
Citadel worm hole tax
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Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2843
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Posted - 2016.04.27 06:37:34 -
[36] - Quote
I hope CCP does a careful analysis on the effects of these increased sinks and costs on isk velocity and volumes.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
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Indahmawar Fazmarai
5135
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Posted - 2016.04.27 06:59:33 -
[37] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Drago Shouna wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:It's a buff to lowsec, but still a long term death knell to Highsec. You can't remove citadels to avoid a wardec, they cost the same no matter the area of space, they should give the same reward for use in any area of space since they require the same investment. Otherwise it gives an unbeatable materials advantage to Null/WH's. Which is terrible for the game. I had this discussion with Fozzie at fanfest, I even pointed out that it could very well be a game breaker for some small miners and industrialists. His reply was a bit shocking really, well more than a bit. he said " I don't care if 1000 players quit over it, we'll just recruit a thousand more" With him in charge of team five o I dread to think of what other ways he has up his sleeve to shaft HS in the future. I absolutely did not say that, although I can understand if you misheard me or misunderstood. I said that we need to make the changes that are best for the game as a whole; and that although almost all change will cause at least some people to leave the game, good changes will result in more players overall. And like I told you at the party, if you do decide to quit over this I wish you the very best in the future and want you to know that you're always welcome back if you choose.
That makes sense and is understandable. What players may disagree is on what is "good for the game" and your (CCP's) ability to discern it based on the information you obtain.
The questions you don't ask don't get answered, and sometimes what you don't know that you don't know (the unknown unknowns) is very relevant.
CCP may be right in what looks like favoring a very small chunk of population and backburning a way larger share of it, but maybe ti's because they asked the wrong questions to the wrong people...
Small anecdote in point: a public library had a succesful program of "digital alphabetization" to teach people how to use a computer. It was so succesful that they were picked for a test program by the EU, to improve those kind of programs with additional funds and studies. Based on the feedback they gathered from the people attending the initial program, they developed a series of programs teaching how to use specific software based on the things learned in the initial program, and then things went bad. The new programs had poor performance in the first semester and that could threaten the EU funding. Then, someone asked the question nobody had asked yet: "Is there someone who would want to use our digital alphabetisation pogram but can't?". That question was raised to the library board because my sister talked to one of the librarians and conveyed to her the objection made by an inmigrant mother: she would like to learn to use a computer and help her children, but the digital alphabetisation program was scheduled at times good for retired elder and unemployed persons, and where incompatible with school hours and working moms. So eventually the extended program was refurbished and the library board just added more studies in times compatible with school hours, and bingo! The new program was extremely successful since it taped on a completely new demographic.
The point is, the library board first thought that they needed to keep pleasing the people already enjoying the initial program, and they would never have figured that there was more people in need of the program because they only talked to people from the program. They needed to learn first hand about the people who didn't enjoyed the program because they couldn't.... and that people, you knwo, didn't bothered to engage the library board since they were quite busy minding their business.
Pleasing the people who enjoys your game in a certain way is nice, but maybe you should focus on the people who doesn't enjoys it for no good reason. Specially when you release the first Expansion in two years and that people get from it, precisely and exactly, a tax hike and a doubled-edged sword of PvE dailies.
Can you get rid of them? What's good for the game is that people who don't play to wreck someone's dreams are bakcburned for years to come? Certainly CCP thinks so. But maybe they asked the wrong questions to the wrong people... |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
2434
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Posted - 2016.04.27 07:55:10 -
[38] - Quote
Indahmawar Fazmarai wrote:Can you get rid of them? What's good for the game is that people who don't play to wreck someone's dreams are bakcburned for years to come? Certainly CCP thinks so. But maybe they asked the wrong questions to the wrong people... Or maybe some people have been playing the wrong game the whole time.
Eve Online has always been about player content, competition and conflict. The fundamental game design always has players at risk to other players. The fact that some players want a game completely different from what is written in the original design documents does not mean CCP should throw out their original vision and pander to whoever yells the loudest. The are trying their best to stay true to those original ideas, and while certainly there have been concessions and not every decision has furthered that goal, and not every feature added has worked as intended, the idea of a universe completely in the hands of the players still burns bright and has its marks over all the current cool stuff coming in to the game.
But more on topic, putting markets into the hands of players is a bold move towards that goal of a completely player driven universe. I think though a gradual and cautious transition is wise given that citadels lack the contract and CREST functionality that traders rely on. If the bulk of trade does not move to citadels, these new taxes and fees could dramatically increase the amount of ISK leaving the economy causing even more deflation. The economy is already dealing with massive adjustment of skill extractors which seem to be increasing the value of ISK (as reflected by PLEX prices which are still on the decline) and a large new ISK sink could cause more instability.
I am excited to see how this all pans out.
Why Do They Gank?
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2319
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Posted - 2016.04.27 08:23:38 -
[39] - Quote
Rob Kaichin wrote:Ok, so is this: CCP Fozzie wrote: Unrigged Citadel (in all areas of space): 50% T1 rigged Highsec Citadel: 52% T2 rigged Highsec Citadel: 54% T1 rigged Lowsec Citadel: 55.12% T2 rigged Lowsec Citadel: 57.24% T1 rigged Null/WH Citadel: 58.24% T2 rigged Null/WH Citadel: 60.48%
The new Base or the new Maximum for Reprocessing, and will skills be acting on it? (where they don't know).
These are the bases with maxskills and impart it's over 80%refine in null/wh (been a few days so can't remember exact)
Citadel worm hole tax
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3213
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Posted - 2016.04.27 08:25:12 -
[40] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:
I absolutely did not say that, although I can understand if you misheard me or misunderstood.
I said that we need to make the changes that are best for the game as a whole; and that although almost all change will cause at least some people to leave the game, good changes will result in more players overall.
And like I told you at the party, if you do decide to quit over this I wish you the very best in the future and want you to know that you're always welcome back if you choose.
So would you care to explain why you are contradicting the earlier change to PE where it was stated that giving mechanical material advantages was not desirable, and during the revamp of outposts when the argument was that highsec players did not have to invest as much into their structures and could just pull a POS down was the justification for the lower refine.
And why it's good for the game for High Sec players who invest the same amount of work to make a citadel and are exposed to risk since it can't be pulled down are then not given the same reward. Sure they don't have to defend against Caps, but they also can't defend using Caps, and the lack of all the AOE defence modules actually makes it vastly harder to defend a high sec citadel. Not easier.
So I'd love to see what kind of reasoning you have for continuing to hand goodies to Null Sec coalitions on a platter simply because they jump up and down and demand the best of everything, when in this particular case, the risk is the same anywhere, possibly even higher in High sec due to the Citadels having weaker defence. |
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Jerppu3
Solar Vista. The Anubis Accord
8
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Posted - 2016.04.27 09:00:04 -
[41] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Can we please tax compression?
Right now there is very little reason to refine in a citadel that isn't closer to a trade hub and even beyond that there will be plenty of public ones with 0 tax. If ppl can just compress in mine for free why would they ever refine there. A DST can move over 1M of ore after compression.
Beyond that why can't I charge for a service I'm paying to provide
Exactly what he said. We have been asking this for quite a while now. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
2320
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Posted - 2016.04.27 09:09:44 -
[42] - Quote
Jerppu3 wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Can we please tax compression?
Right now there is very little reason to refine in a citadel that isn't closer to a trade hub and even beyond that there will be plenty of public ones with 0 tax. If ppl can just compress in mine for free why would they ever refine there. A DST can move over 1M of ore after compression.
Beyond that why can't I charge for a service I'm paying to provide Exactly what he said. We have been asking this for quite a while now.
Hell I would settle for a good explenation as to why ccp has decided against this
Citadel worm hole tax
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Scotsman Howard
S0utherN Comfort Circle-Of-Two
108
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Posted - 2016.04.27 10:45:32 -
[43] - Quote
Drago Shouna wrote:Otro Willis wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:It's a buff to lowsec, but still a long term death knell to Highsec. You can't remove citadels to avoid a wardec, they cost the same no matter the area of space, they should give the same reward for use in any area of space since they require the same investment. Otherwise it gives an unbeatable materials advantage to Null/WH's. Which is terrible for the game. Because being next door to Jita isn't an advantage at all. What the hell has Jita got to do with it? I haven't been there in over 2 years, and I doubt I will in the next 2 if i'm here.
LOL if you don't understand the importance of Jita to the game economy, then I am sorry for you.
All those prices you have been using to sell wherever you are: guess what; they were driven by Jita in some way. Jita sets the tone for the rest of Eve be it null sec or low sec (WH is a bit debatable, but they have never had fully flushed out markets).
How many null groups do NOT base their SRP or markets off of Jita prices? |
Lugh Crow-Slave
2320
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Posted - 2016.04.27 10:50:18 -
[44] - Quote
Scotsman Howard wrote:Drago Shouna wrote:Otro Willis wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:It's a buff to lowsec, but still a long term death knell to Highsec. You can't remove citadels to avoid a wardec, they cost the same no matter the area of space, they should give the same reward for use in any area of space since they require the same investment. Otherwise it gives an unbeatable materials advantage to Null/WH's. Which is terrible for the game. Because being next door to Jita isn't an advantage at all. What the hell has Jita got to do with it? I haven't been there in over 2 years, and I doubt I will in the next 2 if i'm here. LOL if you don't understand the importance of Jita to the game economy, then I am sorry for you. All those prices you have been using to sell wherever you are: guess what; they were driven by Jita in some way. Jita sets the tone for the rest of Eve be it null sec or low sec (WH is a bit debatable, but they have never had fully flushed out markets). How many null groups do NOT base their SRP or markets off of Jita prices?
Soon my friend soon the wh markets will rise. And when they do? .....
Yeah they will be driven more or less by jita
Citadel worm hole tax
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2415
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Posted - 2016.04.27 11:55:24 -
[45] - Quote
Zappity wrote:I hope CCP does a careful analysis on the effects of these increased sinks and costs on isk velocity and volumes. I'm eagerly waiting for CCP Quant's next report. We all know what would happen in RL markets, I'm not that optimistic that EvE is much different ...
... the problem with the current direction of development is IMO, that all recent new features and changes incentivice the big groups on the expense of smaller entities. The entry barrier to self-paced "life" in New Eden is risen again. The new(?) ideal is to join and get absorbed by one of the big "hordes". Probably this is what is shown to CCP management as the best way to raise retention.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Rek Seven
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
2211
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Posted - 2016.04.27 12:05:29 -
[46] - Quote
I feel citadels in wormhole space will need some additional market functionality. As there will only be a small fraction of items available on the market compared to K-space, we need a way to quickly see the buy/sell orders available.
This will allow people in wormhole space to create successfully open markets, if they choose.
The wishlist is pretty much complete...
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Splatus
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.04.27 12:22:49 -
[47] - Quote
Someone remind me - the owner of the structure can allow specific individuals to use the facilities, correct?
That means a solo industrialist can ask nicely anyone with a refining array and gain access. The owner of the station loses nothing (unlike POS, someone "docking" is not a security risk) but gains ISK through fees and additional security because now the array is used by more people who would be negatively impacted by its destruction.
Thats the alternative to a) joining a large corp, b) using NPC stations or 3) setting up their own structure.
If this is correct, its a pretty decent size bonus for solo players. |
Bad Bobby
Bring Me Sunshine In Tea We Trust
1332
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Posted - 2016.04.27 12:22:53 -
[48] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:As there will only be a small fraction of items available on the market compared to K-space, we need a way to quickly see the buy/sell orders available. Click the "show only available" check box in the market window.
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Rek Seven
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
2211
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Posted - 2016.04.27 12:25:53 -
[49] - Quote
Bad Bobby wrote:Rek Seven wrote:As there will only be a small fraction of items available on the market compared to K-space, we need a way to quickly see the buy/sell orders available. Click the "show only available" check box in the market window.
Oh thanks! I didn't realise it was already an option
The wishlist is pretty much complete...
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Redneck Herman
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.04.27 13:48:07 -
[50] - Quote
Echoing the feelings of many here: the tax changes seem damaging to the game as a whole |
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
5978
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Posted - 2016.04.27 15:16:06 -
[51] - Quote
Splatus wrote:Someone remind me - the owner of the structure can allow specific individuals to use the facilities, correct?
That means a solo industrialist can ask nicely anyone with a refining array and gain access. The owner of the station loses nothing (unlike POS, someone "docking" is not a security risk) but gains ISK through fees and additional security because now the array is used by more people who would be negatively impacted by its destruction.
Thats the alternative to a) joining a large corp, b) using NPC stations or 3) setting up their own structure.
If this is correct, its a pretty decent size bonus for solo players.
Correct.
Docking and service access are managed by access lists. These can contain people, corporations, alliances, or Public (or a mix there of)
I'm running again for CSM 11, and I'd appreciate your vote.
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Splatus
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.04.27 15:21:24 -
[52] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Splatus wrote:Someone remind me - the owner of the structure can allow specific individuals to use the facilities, correct?
That means a solo industrialist can ask nicely anyone with a refining array and gain access. The owner of the station loses nothing (unlike POS, someone "docking" is not a security risk) but gains ISK through fees and additional security because now the array is used by more people who would be negatively impacted by its destruction.
Thats the alternative to a) joining a large corp, b) using NPC stations or 3) setting up their own structure.
If this is correct, its a pretty decent size bonus for solo players. Correct. Docking and service access are managed by access lists. These can contain people, corporations, alliances, or Public (or a mix there of)
Thank you for clarification. I understand that the percentage of taxes may be still under review but the system itself is a heck of a lot more interesting and newbro friendly than the old one.
In the old one, a newbro has to either live with NPC corps or join some corporation who will let him have POS access. Both not ideal
I am out of the client right now, but are the taxes charged advertised in the "structure finder"? I.e. is there a competitive market for structures that a solo industrialist can use? |
Soldarius
O C C U P Y Test Alliance Please Ignore
1495
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Posted - 2016.04.27 17:04:13 -
[53] - Quote
Drago Shouna wrote:So as things stand atm, a standard pos gives a base refining rate of 52% With a max refining rate of 75.3%.
An Intensive array gives 54% and 78.1% respectively.
Has anyone worked out the refining % on a rigged Medium Citadel with max skills yet? Because it's going to have to be a hell of a lot better to make it even remotely worthwhile, particularly as it has a base rate of 50%. Bearing in mind the fuel costs I don't think it's going to be possible to make it anywhere close to as profitable, not in the short, or long term.
Should be 87.52% using a T2 rigged Citadel in nul/w-space with max skills and 4% implant.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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Nyjil Lizaru
Aideron Robotics
47
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Posted - 2016.04.27 18:16:12 -
[54] - Quote
Currently, our 3rd largest hub (Dodixie) cannot maintain stock of needed items (at any price, not just 'reasonable' ones); so why does CCP even think that regional markets will replace trade hubs? I do (did) a lot of corp fitting, and I tried working out of Dodixie for months, but gave up and moved to Jita because I just got too frustrated at missing modules. And I was doing that work for a smallish corp, I can't imagine what it's like for large groups. I like the goal of giving the power to the players, but I doubt this is going to work out the way CCP thinks it will.
Put me in this camp:
Zappity wrote:I hope CCP does a careful analysis on the effects of these increased sinks and costs on isk velocity and volumes.
Nyjil's corollary to Malcanis' Law: -á "Any attempt by CCP to smooth the learning curve of EVE Online will be carried out via the addition of extra factors and 'features' such that there is a net increase in complexity."
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Akira Nailo
Minion Revolution Goonswarm Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.04.27 18:34:31 -
[55] - Quote
How Did i know the CCP Fozzie would be behind this. Changing reprocessing to now cost money? We losing all the good Devs and THIS is what we are keeping... Sigh. Fozzie i hope you read this is really do this is now your 2nd **** poor idea (thats being kind) If you have any other great ideas please put them on paper, then light it on fire, and mix the ashes. |
Indahmawar Fazmarai
5135
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Posted - 2016.04.27 18:52:05 -
[56] - Quote
Nyjil Lizaru wrote:Currently, our 3rd largest hub (Dodixie) cannot maintain stock of needed items (at any price, not just 'reasonable' ones); so why does CCP even think that regional markets will replace trade hubs? I do (did) a lot of corp fitting, and I tried working out of Dodixie for months, but gave up and moved to Jita because I just got too frustrated at missing modules. And I was doing that work for a smallish corp, I can't imagine what it's like for large groups. I like the goal of giving the power to the players, but I doubt this is going to work out the way CCP thinks it will. Put me in this camp: Zappity wrote:I hope CCP does a careful analysis on the effects of these increased sinks and costs on isk velocity and volumes.
Well, Dodixie is a part of high security space, nicknamed "highsec". Highsec is not very high in CCP's priority list, with all the cool stuff being handed to nullsec for design reasons(?).
There's been an elephant in the room for years and maybe now it will start moving. SPs where the last goal to certain players, and now that goal is being sold and bought so fast that not even PLEX can keep its value. People want to get out of the game and get out ASAP, with a ful load of their favorite skills.
But hey. Surely those people ar a little few fringe cases. Like the people who left when POCOs were implemented because they didn't wanted to pay taxes to some PvP *******. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
5978
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Posted - 2016.04.27 23:24:14 -
[57] - Quote
Akira Nailo wrote:How Did i know the CCP Fozzie would be behind this. Changing reprocessing to now cost money? We losing all the good Devs and THIS is what we are keeping... Sigh. Fozzie i hope you read this is really do this is now your 2nd **** poor idea (thats being kind) If you have any other great ideas please put them on paper, then light it on fire, and mix the ashes.
This one's been requested for a long time, by people running Outposts.
So they don't need to gather the minerals and sell them themselves.
I'm running again for CSM 11, and I'd appreciate your vote.
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2335
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Posted - 2016.04.28 00:09:54 -
[58] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Akira Nailo wrote:How Did i know the CCP Fozzie would be behind this. Changing reprocessing to now cost money? We losing all the good Devs and THIS is what we are keeping... Sigh. Fozzie i hope you read this is really do this is now your 2nd **** poor idea (thats being kind) If you have any other great ideas please put them on paper, then light it on fire, and mix the ashes. This one's been requested for a long time, by people running Outposts. So they don't need to gather the minerals and sell them themselves.
so do to lazyness?
an est cost tax is so bad
rather than getting 5% of the minerals for a 5% tax i could get 2%-10% the isk value based on the market that day if they are going to do this estv needs to get better
EDIT: at the very least they could make it a choice
Citadel worm hole tax
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Droidster
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
250
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Posted - 2016.04.28 01:49:35 -
[59] - Quote
I am not a Jita market trader, but I can say this change is idiotic and pointless. It reminds of the absurd taxes and other childish restrictions on the "auction houses" in WOW that prevented those systems from being anything but low volume market stalls.
By making this change liquidity on the markets will be greatly reduced. I just did a price report run on a private system I had and it showed the average spread on PI materials right now is over 40% (I pasted a portion of the printout at the bottom of this post). Before the patch spreads averaged around 15%.
I realize that the average person has no understanding or appreciation for market mechanisms and there are probably a whole bunch of PVP players says "good, more taxes" (yes, I have literally read posts that say this), so I just a squeak in the wilderness here. But, for the record of posterity I am just recording that this change was completely idiotic.
Buy Price Sell Price Spread (01) ...............Aqueous Liquids 1.83 3.62 1.79 49.39% (02) ....................Autotrophs 4.48 14.81 10.33 69.74% (03) ...................Base Metals 2.04 7.29 5.25 72.01% (04) ..............Carbon Compounds 0.66 7.14 6.48 90.78% (05) .............Complex Organisms 4.08 12.21 8.13 66.55% (06) ..................Felsic Magma 4.27 23.78 19.51 82.05% (07) ..................Heavy Metals 2.68 4.42 1.74 39.37% (08) ...............Ionic Solutions 1.32 4.74 3.42 72.14% (09) ................Microorganisms 1.29 2.45 1.17 47.59% (10) .....................Noble Gas 1.66 2.55 0.89 34.90% (11) ..................Noble Metals 3.90 4.93 1.03 20.85% (12) ...............Non-CS Crystals 3.56 6.48 2.92 45.04% (13) .............Planktic Colonies 4.56 7.88 3.32 42.16% (14) ..................Reactive Gas 1.61 26.80 25.19 93.98% (15) ..............Suspended Plasma 1.75 4.58 2.83 61.72% (16) ......................Bacteria 338 1,376 1,038 75.43% (17) ......................Biofuels 276 367 91 24.87% |
Farmer Johnson's Daughter
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.04.28 02:19:48 -
[60] - Quote
Just wanted to drop in and saying thanks for screwing over the traders with this a$$ backwards tax hike, congrats, you've pissed off the people who drive the friggen market.
Pathetic |
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