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Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2016.04.28 04:54:46 -
[1] - Quote
Hello,
After some weeks of gameplay as a "carebear" I decided to do pvp, everywhere everyone says this game is pvp based, only pvp is core to this game, you will be bored with this game if you don't do pvp and so on....
I joined FW and began to do pvp, mainly inside novices plexes in my faction owned systems.
I jumped in the plex....ships came inside....I was killed....I was podded.
Then jumped again....killed...podded...
jumped....killed...podded....
jumped...killed...kept webbed in the pod for a minute...podded....
jumped...killed....kept webbed again....podded...annoying....
jumped...killed...webbed...podded
and so on, several times for 3 days....95% of killings was not from another military but from pirates...
So It began to be annoying and I began to give a look at what ships/chars were killing me all time.
Basically I was in my 2/3 Mils frigate with my less than one mil sp char and 99.9% of time I was killed...webbed..podded by 50 mils faction frigate piloted by long time veterans pirates!
So my question and petition at the same time is:
If novice plexes are supposed to be used by novices, would not be better to be accessible to t1 frigates only?
A t1 frigate with t2 modules piloted by a veteran can be let's say 200% 300% more effective than mine?
At least I have a little chance to win or to go near a winning.
With this situation of faction frigates, the difference is so big I have almost zero chance to win a fight so I am not encouraged to go into novice plexes to learn basic pvp.
What I learned so far is only to use dscan to see who is coming and because 99.9% it's a draemiel, a navy comet or another faction ship, I need to flee out of the plex, so no pvp and no learning at all...
So please CCP developers, think about restricting novice plex to T1 frigates only, or make a even little plex ( with less LP so pirates cannot say I farm big money LP as their excuse to gank me inside the plex), or lowering LP gains from novice plex making this restriction, giving me the chance to learn basic pvp.
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Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1118
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Posted - 2016.04.28 06:59:44 -
[2] - Quote
Git gud. Lrn2dscan and process intel. Also learn how to get your pod out. HTFU too because if CCP does that you're gonna say "ONE MORE NERF" with only t1 fittings required for novices then another "ONE MORE NERF" with only shitfit t1 frigs allowed.
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
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Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2016.04.28 07:58:23 -
[3] - Quote
Hello Yang,
happy to have others opinion, having some difficulties to understand what you mean though...
p.s. I have the luck of having some isks, but I don't think a newbie considers his 2mil frigate shitfit, to have several 2 mils frigates exploded in 2 seconds by faction frigates can be painful for a total newbie finances in my opinion. |
James Clough
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
35
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Posted - 2016.04.28 09:08:14 -
[4] - Quote
Use d-scan. don't fight faction frigs if you think you cant take them? Some faction frigs can easily be killed by t1 frigs its pretty situational the thing is learning what you can take and what you might have a chance at taking and you can only do that by dying a lot.
#GLITTER http://i.imgur.com/KXyHvqy.jpg
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Degnar Oskold
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
178
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Posted - 2016.04.28 10:15:33 -
[5] - Quote
Bring friends next time. The best ship in EVE is the Friend ship. |
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2016.04.28 10:50:56 -
[6] - Quote
It happened to me to try offensive plex on a fw corps some weeks ago on my exploration char (turning it to a pure eploration char almost immediately).
The only time I joined a corpmate in a plex without knowing anything at all about plexes I was insulted for minutes because I was stealing his plex, stealing his LP and so on.
I was really disappointed to be accused being stealing....
So please don't ask me to bring friends in the plexes, and please don't tell me the usual thing that happens here, when someone points out a problem and asks for a solution the answers from others are:
"do something else"
"bring friends"
"it's a sandbox"
It's a sandbox where universe and everything you use is decided by others, changes can be made and developers are supposed to listen to suggestions.
I was said this game is a game where developers actually listen to players.
So I hope to have others opinions about a topic when I write about it, not always the usual suggestion "do something else".... |
Oreb Wing
Arm of Coryphaeus
167
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Posted - 2016.04.28 11:00:20 -
[7] - Quote
Limiting objectives to strictly t1 ships would completely destroy a large amount of high skill level content in FW. Also, I have often seen high cost navy/pirate ships go down to t1. Best advice is to explore and look for a quieter system. Most likely out of Black Rise. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1391
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Posted - 2016.04.28 11:06:56 -
[8] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:It happened to me to try offensive plex on a fw corps some weeks ago on my exploration char (turning it to a pure eploration char almost immediately).
The only time I joined a corpmate in a plex without knowing anything at all about plexes I was insulted for minutes because I was stealing his plex, stealing his LP and so on.
I was really disappointed to be accused being stealing....
So please don't ask me to bring friends in the plexes, and please don't tell me the usual thing that happens here, when someone points out a problem and asks for a solution the answers from others are:
"do something else"
"bring friends"
"it's a sandbox"
It's a sandbox where universe and everything you use is decided by others, changes can be made and developers are supposed to listen to suggestions.
I was said this game is a game where developers actually listen to players.
So I hope to have others opinions about a topic when I write about it, not always the usual suggestion "do something else".... In this sandbox of an MMO we have to play with others in an environment where there are few rules. That means we need to work out a lot of stuff for ourselves. So you will come across different personality types. Some people will be rude and inconsiderate, some will lack understand but also the awareness that they lack understand so will act as if they have some knowledge of some non-existent objective known.
You will have to learn how to interact with all of those types of people and also find your own playstyle as well as a little confidence in yourself.
It sounds to me like the player in question is just an asshat who thinks he knows everything yet can't even tell the difference between a newbro and a pirate. No one "owns" those complexs. Some corp may establish guidlines for within corp activities but they still don't own those plexs. The above players reaction shows me that he either does not understand this game or does not want to play this game.
One thing that you must note, FW complexs are a place to go for PvP. Lots of players not associated with any militia go there for PvP. They are not looking for LP or trying to flip the systems ownership, they are just there looking for a fight. This is all well within intended gameplay.
I don't know enough about FW to give you any specific guidance but I can tell you that you will have to develop the discernment to be able to distinguish between advice that you should listen to and advice that you should ignore. I'm not saying you should be at that point now I'm just saying just because someone has an older character than yours does not mean they know more than you about everything not necessarily even most things. |
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2016.04.28 11:08:06 -
[9] - Quote
Hello Oreb,
I am asking to add a extra small plex limited to t1 frigates, not important how many LP are gained at the end of counter, even half of a novice plex can be more than enough, my idea is to give a chance of a decently fair fight for newbies, to spend weeks and weeks dying all time with almost zero chances to win a fight is something that makes new players to leave PvP, not to join and love PvP at all.
Obviously it would make pirates not so happy, I was told many of them simply like to add new kills to their list, they don't care if they kill a newbie or a veteran, they simply love to add kills to their collection,. very very easy kills are always welcomed. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1391
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Posted - 2016.04.28 11:16:54 -
[10] - Quote
another thought that I had about a response to the corpmate that you mentioned in post #6 is that you could find out what kind of ship that he typically flies. Talk to an experienced PvPer about what is the best counter to that. Then jump into a complex that he is in. If he is helpful and offer guidance in a constructive way then work with him.
If he starts crying about stealing his LP then you point him, blow up his ship and then say "WHO'S LP? LUCY'S LP!" after that you could engage him in a polite conversation about if he still thinks that being a **** is a good way for him to play or not. |
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2775
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Posted - 2016.04.28 12:37:25 -
[11] - Quote
people dont need an excuse to "gank" you in plexes, you just need an excuse on why you ran away
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations | lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID
Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
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IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
1563
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Posted - 2016.04.28 12:38:32 -
[12] - Quote
Faction Frigates are T1.
https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
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Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2016.04.28 12:39:47 -
[13] - Quote
All kind of "revenge" on selfish players can be interesting, but what I'm pointing out is that having a chance to really duel with a cheap pvp ship against other kind of ships would make pvp experience for new players like me much more interesting.
How it is it seems newbies destiny is to be killed all time by veterans that don't care if you are new to the game or not, you are simply another line in their victim's roster.
It's frustrating and in my opinion making many new players to quit.
A t1 versus t1 would help new players like me to actually learn pvp even if they haven't time/chance to enter a pvp corp having teacher spending much time to teach them pvp.
Oh, someone said faction ships are t1, pity they are extremely overpowered if compared to the ships a new player can afford to fly / lose. |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2775
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Posted - 2016.04.28 12:41:49 -
[14] - Quote
I dont think the ship is the issue here
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations | lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID
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Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2016.04.28 12:44:14 -
[15] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:I dont think the ship is the issue here
Ship is the issue here, in my opinion.
I was said that pirates use bling ships and they also use fleet bonuses from ships in the system, just to make it even easier.
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2775
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Posted - 2016.04.28 12:46:56 -
[16] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:Lan Wang wrote:I dont think the ship is the issue here Ship is the issue here, in my opinion. I was said that pirates use bling ships and they also use fleet bonuses from ships in the system, just to make it even easier.
doesnt matter what the pilot flies, he has more experience with that ship, he would probably kill your pirate frigate if he was in a t1 tristan, changing the ship isnt really going to change the outcome.
a lot of great players fly t1 frigates, you need to learn when to engage and when to run
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations | lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID
Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
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Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2016.04.28 12:50:55 -
[17] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Lucy Lollipops wrote:Lan Wang wrote:I dont think the ship is the issue here Ship is the issue here, in my opinion. I was said that pirates use bling ships and they also use fleet bonuses from ships in the system, just to make it even easier. doesnt matter what the pilot flies, he has more experience with that ship, he would probably kill your pirate frigate if he was in a t1 tristan, changing the ship isnt really going to change the outcome
I would be very happy if he would "probably" kill me, because it would help me to learn.
To have a t2 module fitted faction frigate with fleet bonus jumping in the novice plex and killing me in 5 seconds giving my cheap let's say 5 mils frigate no chance to win teaches me absolutely nothing.
It's only one line in the pirate kill roster, and no pvp experience at all for me. |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2775
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Posted - 2016.04.28 12:52:21 -
[18] - Quote
it teaches you to run away from pirate frigates
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations | lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID
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Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
8
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Posted - 2016.04.28 13:02:36 -
[19] - Quote
As I wrote at the beginning I already learned how to flee, it's very easy, you stay on the corner of a plex spamming dscan setted on a short distance to see near ships, aligned to a planet at random. When you see the usual faction pirate ship you warp away.
I've learned it easily, but I don't want to farm LP like that at all. I want to learn pvp fighting with other ships, with a "decent" chance to at least have time to learn something before diying. Versus the 99% of pirate ships there is no chance like that at all.
So I really hope FW is not about only learn how to flee.
I hope it could be something about learning how to fight...
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Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1120
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Posted - 2016.04.28 13:02:45 -
[20] - Quote
Lucy Lollipops wrote:Hello Yang,
happy to have others opinion, having some difficulties to understand what you mean though...
p.s. I have the luck of having some isks, but I don't think a newbie considers his 2mil frigate shitfit, to have several 2 mils frigates exploded in 2 seconds by faction frigates can be painful for a total newbie finances in my opinion.
Learn how to use dscan and check local regularly. From your posts it looks like people keep catching you with your pants down inside the plex. Are you watching netflix and expecting plexing to be like afk mining?
Here's a tip when deplexing: 1. Once you land on the beacon after using accel gate point camera to the center of plex 2. Manually burn to it until you go past it 3. Keep going until you're 28~29 km away from center of plex 4. Viola you are now 40 km away from the beacon giving you time to gtfo from brawlers and kiters alike
Disclaimer: Does not work you're not paying attention at EVE.
But I'll say this again. LEARN DSCAN. And probably how to get your pod out too. And probably not watching netflix while plexing.
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2775
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Posted - 2016.04.28 13:06:22 -
[21] - Quote
pvp is about learning when to fight and when to run
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations | lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID
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Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
9
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Posted - 2016.04.28 13:07:03 -
[22] - Quote
Hello Yang,
From what you just said you didn't read what I wrote at all. |
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
9
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Posted - 2016.04.28 13:11:31 -
[23] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:pvp is about learning when to fight and when to run
Correct.
But if FW was made to introduce players to PVP and novice plexes are made to introduce newbies to pvp fights, if newbies need to run away 99% of the fights because opponents are overpowered 99% of times, it means mechanics are working very badly.
If FW is made to learn me to flee from opponents because developers are happy about faction ships with fleet bonuses warping in novice plexes for easy kills all time, then mechanics are perfect (for pirates at least...)..
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Oreb Wing
Arm of Coryphaeus
167
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Posted - 2016.04.28 13:17:43 -
[24] - Quote
I agree that the naming scheme for the complexes is misleading.
Gameplay wise, they are working as intended, imo. If limited time is your answer, you can still join a Corp. I consider myself a part-time Eve player as well. It doesn't stop me from joining whatever fleet I see available at any given time.
My recommendation still stands. Find a quiet system, perhaps in Placid or north of the Orvolle entry and start there. A navy frigate it's only one plex in t2. Cheap enough for anyone to get into to improve their chances. Takes ten minutes. |
Lucy Lollipops
State War Academy Caldari State
9
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Posted - 2016.04.28 13:59:42 -
[25] - Quote
Oreb,
I understand your point of view, you suggest to farm some plexes to be able to buy a faction frigate.
It's something intelligent to do for sure, personally I can buy faction or even pirate ships because I have some alts and I farmed some money.
But this post is not about me only.
I put my myself as a new player that tries this game and wants to try pvp.
The natural way is to go FW and to learn it in the novice plexes.
It didn't happen at all for me when i tried to do like that.
As I wrote I was helpless killed several and several times, learning almost nothing because when you die in 5 seconds you have no time to learn a fight at all.
It's like learning chinese as a foreigner, you can read thousand of times and listen thousand of times but if you have no "link" to meaning, you will absolutely never learn it, even if you listen thousand of hours of chinese spoken.
Same for this kins of novice plexes pvp I clearly saw.
It's so unbalanced and you die so fast you will learn nothing at all even after you are killed 1000 times.
To farm a plex for money is relatively easy for me, because I'm playing eve for some months now, but I am confidently sure it's not the same for a total noob.
And for sure the wait and flee tactic is so boring new players will think this game is really horrible and grind/based...
It's for them I'm writing this post, not mainly for myself ;) |
Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
2775
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Posted - 2016.04.28 14:08:30 -
[26] - Quote
do you have friends to help you or are you totally solo?
have you considered joining a group to learn fleet pvp, game really shines in small gang pvp
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations | lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID
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Thanatos Marathon
Black Fox Marauders
613
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Posted - 2016.04.28 14:41:24 -
[27] - Quote
Find some people that are better at PVP than you are learn from them.
Find some people who are always looking for the shiney pirate frigs and their off grid links that will come clear them out of system for you and give them the intel when you see them around (shameless plug: think I'm up to 17 or 18 off grid booster kills in the last 8 days).
I had the fortune of running into some great pvpers early on in my EVE career.
Black Fox Marauders is Recruiting
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Ashlar Vellum
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
258
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Posted - 2016.04.28 15:37:32 -
[28] - Quote
If we are talking about navy faction only, then you have more than a fair chance to kill them in a t1 hull. Your idea does make sense tho. It would be interesting to see novices turned in to t1/faction navy frigs only imo.(I think CCP even were talking about that some time ago, but don't quot me on that.)
PS links are going on grid soon, so half of your complaint is already being worked on. |
Oreb Wing
Arm of Coryphaeus
167
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Posted - 2016.04.28 15:46:14 -
[29] - Quote
If you have an aversion to other people you still have utube videos and twitch recordings within your reach. You should find no shortage of frigate themed ones.
I agree that Eve is a very non -intuitive game to learn, but out has come a long way from where it was when I chose to try to learn, when the only option you had was train 1 month+ to get into a t2 hull. I can tell you that didn't taste any less bitter. Today you can do much more in much less, if you have the know how. Unfortunately, Eve will probably always be a game you have to reference many guides to understand better.
You're not wrong in much of what you say, but improvement might have to come through climbing out of some windows to get a better perspective of what the layout inside is like. That comes through word of mouth usually, of others that made it out of the same labyrinth. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
2940
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Posted - 2016.04.28 17:31:37 -
[30] - Quote
The obvious problem here is that you are Caldari. Roll another toon and join Gallente instead. Your FW experience will greatly improve.
JUSTK is recruiting.
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