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Exaido
Fire Over Light
20
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Posted - 2016.05.27 16:08:29 -
[151] - Quote
Lord Razpataz wrote:Exaido wrote:The 'difficulty' in a surveillance is dramatically effected by the amount of data the client can provide to develop a target-package. Price accordingly, if the client can't give time-zone, region of space, initial incident report or other data to help locate the player, than charge them for that. - building the 'target package'. The client learns, that more data provides a better result and a lower cost.
There is a tonne of data in Eve that you don't get in the real world: from kill-boards, corporation member lists, Dotlan and the like - and the fact that you can 'ping' someone in conversation to determine if they are online or offline. It's a paradigm shift from the 'buddy list' but far from impossible to do.
Its after the war has started the issue begins, they all scatter and not follow usual habits. Sending them a convo before your start hunt them is like.. "hey, I'm gonna come for you now" and the target docks or log. And yeah.. I would love to sit and constantly convo 100+ people over and over, in case someone logs on. *sarcasm*Yes there are ways to check if online or not. The thing is that even with the watchlist the work involved with hunting burned out players. Now we are left with a huge amount of extra work, mindnumbing one at that.
I don't disagree that pings to 100 people is inefficient and made more so if you don't know the organization structure; if you know that then you target 10 people in the corporation Fleet Commanders, CEOs, Directors etc. I'm asking questions to try to be helpful.
1) Are you usually working in defense or offense? (Defense being party War'Dec'd and Offense being party Declaring)
2) Are your clients generally repeat clients?
3) How many engagements are planned and how many are reactive; someone got upset in local or ganked on a gate and declared a war in retaliation?
If you don't want to answer here, you can email if you want. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
16009
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Posted - 2016.05.27 16:20:49 -
[152] - Quote
its more than inefficient, its soul crushingly tedious, awkward in the extreme and utterly and stupidly bad practice for the intended purpose.
not to mention likely to be patched out at a moments notice.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Saeger1737
Bite the pillow Archetype.
1567
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Posted - 2016.05.27 16:40:36 -
[153] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:its more than inefficient, its soul crushingly tedious, awkward in the extreme and utterly and stupidly bad practice for the intended purpose.
not to mention likely to be patched out at a moments notice. Such is life, like joining Devil's Mumble and when you leave you feel like you just got a contact high and your soul now has a debt of some crap.... or I've drank too much beer and this was all a dream.
MERC WITH A MOUTH, Send me DPS and my fleet will double it back! Special offer!
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Malakye Appleton
Voynich Decoded
0
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Posted - 2016.06.02 15:02:30 -
[154] - Quote
Solonius Rex wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Solonius Rex wrote: Any ideas?
Locator agents not running on offline players would do it for me. id be happily back to work just with that Or better yet, locator agents tell you if they are online or not, and if not, when they were last online.
^^^^^^ This, at the very least.
Voynich Decoded - Honorable Merc Corp - Now Recruiting PVP Pilots
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Malakye Appleton
Voynich Decoded
0
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Posted - 2016.06.02 15:21:36 -
[155] - Quote
My guess is CCP has their economist looking at the financials and they are trying everything possible to push everyone to low/null sec but all of these efforts are just pushing people out completely, or are they?
I see groups leaving the merc business, but are they leaving the game? CCP knows that EVE is easily addicting and while such a game requires a great deal of time investment most aren't willing to easily walk away from, it becomes a relationship of "thank you sir, may I have another!".
I find it odd though that when looking at the player base numbers over the years on a site (Sorry, I can't remember the name), it does in fact appear that EVE's player base is falling, yes CCP continues thwarting all efforts for High Sec engagement in favor of pushing players where many dont want to be. Forcing players to do anything in a "sandbox" environment isn't quite a theme park, but almost a linear experience in some ways.
"Start here to achieve A" "Go here to achieve B" "Finish out your days here"
I would really like to see some fruitful changes to High Sec Merc efforts as in all of the various things I've done, this is the life I most want to excel in as its not easy, hard work but also very exciting. From the looks of things, however, I don't see this getting much better.
Many great and valid points in this thread though.
Voynich Decoded - Honorable Merc Corp - Now Recruiting PVP Pilots
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
16111
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Posted - 2016.06.02 15:53:23 -
[156] - Quote
The change in question was a rushed one, CCP Foxfour opened up the api to allow third party sites such as "set them red" to add contacts to watchlist directly,for a short time it was all kinds of broken, ctrl-v + enter = comprehensive watchlist.
This was done knowingly to force the previously put-on-the-longfinger issue* with the rest of the devs, The first we heard about it here was a photo of a powerpoint slide, with no blog, feedback thred or even dev comment we did essentially what we always do as a community when something like this happens .... Put our pants on our heads, set them on fire and ran around screaming because we as mercenaries were going to be left with hub humping in sebod lokis and legions.
This was clearly a forced issue with little to no consideration on the effect it would have on waging war in empire and we have been very vocal on the topic since
*this information comes courtesy of captn morgan CCP Foxfour @ evedublin.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
7
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Posted - 2016.06.03 12:46:43 -
[157] - Quote
Exaido wrote:A bunch of stuff... If all you want is to make the target inactive in an area for a week, and you don't care about them being killed wherever they run off to, you do not need a merc corp. Just declare war yourself, with whatever pitiful excuse for an industrial corp you happen to have. 99.9% of high sec corps have gotten so paranoid about constant "traps" that they don't even care who or what the war is coming from, they'll still disband/scatter/go inactive to avoid it. |
Badman Lasermouse
Run and Gun Mercenary Corps FETID
202
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Posted - 2016.06.08 18:52:47 -
[158] - Quote
Hello Nerds and Devils and every other Merc on this thread,
Come to Low Sec, no bullshit.
You are all old and rich and absolutely wasted in high sec. Put those 100+ Million SP toons into ships and come to a place where everyone is a war target. Stop worrying about your killboards. Any group of you could come carve out some space for yourselves in low and keep the content train moving. The mechanics are different and the targets are many but I can assure you the content is there. Live dangerous for a while.
I'll gladly take on any Devil or other merc that wishes to try Low sec and see how it feels. Dust off those capitals and Black Ops you never get to use and come kill internet spaceships.
-Badman
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Tengu Grib
Rabble Inc. Rabble Alliance
1527
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Posted - 2016.06.08 19:45:56 -
[159] - Quote
Badman Lasermouse wrote:Hello Nerds and Devils and every other Merc on this thread,
Come to Low Sec, no bullshit.
You are all old and rich and absolutely wasted in high sec. Put those 100+ Million SP toons into ships and come to a place where everyone is a war target. Stop worrying about your killboards. Any group of you could come carve out some space for yourselves in low and keep the content train moving. The mechanics are different and the targets are many but I can assure you the content is there. Live dangerous for a while.
I'll gladly take on any Devil or other merc that wishes to try Low sec and see how it feels. Dust off those capitals and Black Ops you never get to use and come kill internet spaceships.
I'm flying with Rabble right now. If I get irritated enough with constant moving and Sov BS I'll probably come to low sec. I don't have the time to get spies into WT corps and figure out if and when they might be online so I can maybe track them down and hope they don't notice I'm coming so I can have a chance and perhaps killing them.
Until the rest of the new structures come out HS is a stagnant waste land for small scale war decs. Hoping that changes.
Rabble Rabble Rabble
Praise James, Supreme Protector of High Sec.
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VegasMirage
Appetite 4 Destruction Appetite 4 Destruction.
1603
|
Posted - 2016.06.11 10:49:22 -
[160] - Quote
With that said, anybody wanna join me for some 4-4 insta-lock-popping fun?
no more games... it's real this time!!!
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Razor Axe
The Realm Gaming Almost Broken
2
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Posted - 2016.06.12 17:39:54 -
[161] - Quote
It seems to me the Merc need to depend more on good old fashion networking, information trading and tracking. What do I mean?
You could try spreading each other out to track longer distances without having 1 person do the job. (Not the most profitable way, but that isn-Št the point in this case).
You could consider trading information with the corp members, pay a small fee to have someone inform you if someone is online.
You could track down buying and selling activity in the area their chosen corp has their trading hub.
You can do a lot of things outside of the intended game mechanic, which you normally would do in real life too.
I would consider adapting and thinking differently than what Merc used to do.
The key approach for Merc is information. So how can you get the information and how do you know it is accurate? How do you react in time once you have the information? Do you need to spread out a few jumps as a group? Do you need to pay more than one person in different timezone to figure out a pattern?
I think that is more exciting than the buddy list. |
Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
309
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Posted - 2016.06.12 21:19:10 -
[162] - Quote
Razor Axe wrote:It seems to me the Merc need to depend more on good old fashion networking, information trading and tracking. What do I mean?
You could try spreading each other out to track longer distances without having 1 person do the job. (Not the most profitable way, but that isn-Št the point in this case).
You could consider trading information with the corp members, pay a small fee to have someone inform you if someone is online.
You could track down buying and selling activity in the area their chosen corp has their trading hub.
You can do a lot of things outside of the intended game mechanic, which you normally would do in real life too.
I would consider adapting and thinking differently than what Merc used to do.
The key approach for Merc is information. So how can you get the information and how do you know it is accurate? How do you react in time once you have the information? Do you need to spread out a few jumps as a group? Do you need to pay more than one person in different timezone to figure out a pattern?
I think that is more exciting than the buddy list. So.. what experience do you have with highsec warfare?
The point is that Devils did do the hard work, with the watchlist. While most other merc groups did not bother. Even with the Watchlist hunting burned out players... Guess what making it harder will do? |
Rawmeat Mary
Hunter Killers. Complaints Department
122
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Posted - 2016.06.12 21:20:26 -
[163] - Quote
As a concept it isn't a bad idea, and to a point it is already happening (from time to time) when mercs work together against a common enemy.
However, practically speaking, it is undoable, as each merc group already have to try and deal with finding their own targets (which consume a great deal of time) you can't really do the other's job on top of it. Consider the time to add all teh otehr's mercs wars as contact for your own scouts for example. And you can only get so many contacts added to your Buddylist (how I hate that name).
Also consider: Want to turn all mercs into a giant blue donut coalition that all scratch each other's back?
And to finish, lets be fair: I did in the past sent mail or convo fellow mercs and worked to offer random intel out of courtesy (many of us do) when we stumble on something.
But. Selfishly, if I find someone, under wardec, flying a purple fit BS and running missions whom I'm not at war with myself, I'm bloody ceratin to wardec the git and get the fat loot for myself, mmm?
Lord Razpataz wrote:Even with the Watchlist hunting burned out players... Guess what making it harder will do? Yeah.
'If they take the ship, they'll rape us to death, eat our flesh, and sew our skins onto their clothing.
And if we're very, very lucky, they'll do it in that order.'
Yeah, we're like that.
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Razor Axe
The Realm Gaming Almost Broken
2
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Posted - 2016.06.13 09:18:14 -
[164] - Quote
Both are fair points and I respect that we all value our time.
I do think that it can be a turn off if it takes a lot of effort and time to hunt down a prey, I mean I used to love going into my stealth ship and tracking down players myself. I was however dependant on buying information, spies and email messages than the "buddy list".
If we are to discuss game mechanics rather than meta mechanics, in other words "What can CCP do inside the game itself?" rather than "What can we do in terms of real life/real time to have fun?" I do have one particular idea I would implement to make it fun for Merc again. It would still require information trading, scanning and other meta mechanic and such.
So what would I suggest instead of bringing back what was removed?
I would probably take advantage of npc standing and also corporation owned regions by having an npc in the stations, meant for bounty hunters/mercs who have a licence to be one. They would get access to an NPC who they can pay to recieve information on a players general visit within a region.
So, this can be done in many ways but to give a simplified idea. You could visit Hek and pay the NPC x5 amount of ISK to know if Razor Axe has been in the region the last hour/login/logg off. If Razor Axe logged off [Insert station] within the Metropolis Region, the npc would inform that Razor Axe is still within the region, docked (which means either logged off or docked).
If the player pays x10 amount of ISK the bounty hunter/merc will get a narrowed down search, such as "Razor Axe is in a station that is 8 jumps away". This would help narrow down the search area.
If the merc/bounty hunter has good standing or the corp owns the region so to speak, they get access to VIP service, which is A) cheaper prices mentioned above and B) the last 10 jumps/station docks for the player.
This introduces a more deduction gameplay which obviously requires you to be good at deduction (sudoku is a deduction game). You then analyze your information and narrow down your search, and jump towards where you think the target might be.
This is the same suggestion as above, only a mechanic and NPC based on. This would also ensure ISK flow out and in for Merc in terms of cost, in exchange for speeding up and simplifying the search.
Mind you, I suggest this only happens per region and that the prices vary depending on the range. And that it requires a bounty hunter/merc license being introduced which is paid monthly to keep. This is to ensure that there is a "high" cost for using the service so it doesn't become too cheap/free or even easy to hunt ANYONE. This being the main disadvantage or troll weakness in my idea. Which is easy to solve in the long run but that is the general idea I introduce to bring back the excitement and helpful tools for hunting people.
It could be like a NPC in the BAR. It fits old school lore, real life and makes sense that there are npc selling this information.
To make it a bit harder for the one who is running away, if they know they are being hunted. They can do the opposite by reducing the information or paying to give wrong information. So this become a game of cat and mouse in general depending on the details of the mechanic and how complex/unique it would be to give merc/bounty or information gatherers a fun game mechanic to create new meta mechanic from.
Thoughts? |
Omar Alharazaad
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
2906
|
Posted - 2016.06.13 10:44:48 -
[165] - Quote
I know you put quite a bit of thought into that, but it seems like it's far more complicated than it needs to be. You're talking about introducing a whole new set of interdependencies and mechanics, where simply fixing locator agents to return an 'outside of sphere of influence' result for offline characters achieves the same result but with less whistles and bells.
Generally not a super idea to make something more complicated than it has to be, as each added new shiny thing is another thing to go wrong during implementation.
Just my two ISK
Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
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Razor Axe
The Realm Gaming Almost Broken
2
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Posted - 2016.06.13 10:55:57 -
[166] - Quote
Fair enough but the game is still a sandbox game and like most sandbox games it does require us to invent methods to play in the way we want. I don't think it is a big problem if merc/hunters see if someone is online, they would still have to track them down. But anything more than that, even what I suggested is bringing it very close to "too easy" to hunt people. Just like mining is boring for many, be it due to it's simplicity or lack of interactivity. I do think merc/hunting is the opposite, it takes perhaps too much time and energy?
Then again I do station trading and it requires a lot of time, effort and real life resources to do it on a high level. So from that perspective I am not sure which "career" is hard, easy or time consuming. It seems to me that the majority of people invested in a career will have similar opinion if their career was affected in such a way.
In light of this, it is hard to justify even my own opinion or suggestion. But I am sure with a regular conversation between hunters/merc and those who are victim, there could be a fruitful solution that benefit both parties.
Initially, my main suggestion is that it should be engaging and fun to hunt, difficult but not tedious or impossible. A little time consuming but not a time sink. And the same goes for the ones being hunted, it should be an excitement being hunted, avoiding and tricking the merc/hunters. It shoulnd't be annoying and frustraing to be hunted.
That is where I think the challenge is, as often in games the solution tend to favor the majority who does A but not the ones doing B. I love stealth in general, in games but making it too easy/powerful would have negative consequences for other people playstyle.
Not sure if that made sense, I do see the perspective of everyone but after 11 year of coming and going into Eve. I find every career with their own challenges in the same arena such as time sink, too long and so on. |
Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
309
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Posted - 2016.06.13 11:18:43 -
[167] - Quote
For highsec hunting the watchlist was a tool for both defender and agressor, easy accesible by both sides. This made it the most fair mechanic in eve imho.
And saying its free intel.. well maybe. But using that intel to hunt is definitly not free. lvl4 is 250k per locate, and we ran tens maybe hundreds of locates.. every day. (lvl4 locate has a 30minute cooldown before you can run another one) To be able to run all those locates, we need standings at npc. And for that we had to missionrun or buy our way.
Oh.. and I almost forgot, the locate on a pilot is 10 minutes late. So when you finally get to the location the target is long gone if its moving. So new locate and repeat.
Whats "free" with that? |
Razor Axe
The Realm Gaming Almost Broken
2
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Posted - 2016.06.13 16:44:51 -
[168] - Quote
Lord Razpataz wrote:For highsec hunting the watchlist was a tool for both defender and agressor, easy accesible by both sides. This made it the most fair mechanic in eve imho.
And saying its free intel.. well maybe. But using that intel to hunt is definitly not free. lvl4 is 250k per locate, and we ran tens maybe hundreds of locates.. every day. (lvl4 locate has a 30minute cooldown before you can run another one) To be able to run all those locates, we need standings at npc. And for that we had to missionrun or buy our way.
Oh.. and I almost forgot, the locate on a pilot is 10 minutes late. So when you finally get to the location the target is long gone if its moving. So new locate and repeat.
Whats "free" with that?
I am not looking for unnecessary arguments that doesn't discuss a possible solution, however since you brought it up... I did add cheap/free and not free on its own. And also compare to say the cost for a trader, it is considerably cheap and fix cost depending on how many locates you would have used. And 250K * 100 = 25mill isk is still a cheap cost for this career, especially since I know the average location would be around 25 use divided between 8-15 other merc. Say it was 15, that is 1.666 milion isk per pilot. That to me is very cheap and almost free if you have managed to rank up to lvl 4 plus the other skills used for merc/hunting.
This is purely subjective so you can say I am wrong, but comparing with other career who have to spend 100 million to do what they do alone, it is cheap in my opinion.
However, the focus of this discussion should be around:
A) What would be fair towards all pilots/career? B) What can CCP do to implement/adjust previous features to make it fair? C) What can we do meanwhile to ensure the merc business stays fun, engaging and worth the effort?
These are really my concern and interest, to look for temporarily solution that we have the power to implement as meta game, while encouraging CCP to provide the needed ground work to enjoy merc/hunting again. As I am not disagreeing but rather looking into this from other perspective. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
16295
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Posted - 2016.06.13 17:00:41 -
[169] - Quote
A) un**** wars B) un**** locators C) what we do everynight pinky , **** up everything within eyeshot.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
310
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Posted - 2016.06.13 17:05:48 -
[170] - Quote
Razor Axe wrote:Lord Razpataz wrote:For highsec hunting the watchlist was a tool for both defender and agressor, easy accesible by both sides. This made it the most fair mechanic in eve imho.
And saying its free intel.. well maybe. But using that intel to hunt is definitly not free. lvl4 is 250k per locate, and we ran tens maybe hundreds of locates.. every day. (lvl4 locate has a 30minute cooldown before you can run another one) To be able to run all those locates, we need standings at npc. And for that we had to missionrun or buy our way.
Oh.. and I almost forgot, the locate on a pilot is 10 minutes late. So when you finally get to the location the target is long gone if its moving. So new locate and repeat.
Whats "free" with that? I am not looking for unnecessary arguments that doesn't discuss a possible solution, however since you brought it up... I did add cheap/free and not free on its own. And also compare to say the cost for a trader, it is considerably cheap and fix cost depending on how many locates you would have used. And 250K * 100 = 25mill isk is still a cheap cost for this career, especially since I know the average location would be around 25 use divided between 8-15 other merc. Say it was 15, that is 1.666 milion isk per pilot. That to me is very cheap and almost free if you have managed to rank up to lvl 4 plus the other skills used for merc/hunting. This is purely subjective so you can say I am wrong, but comparing with other career who have to spend 100 million to do what they do alone, it is cheap in my opinion. However, the focus of this discussion should be around: A) What would be fair towards all pilots/career? B) What can CCP do to implement/adjust previous features to make it fair? C) What can we do meanwhile to ensure the merc business stays fun, engaging and worth the effort? These are really my concern and interest, to look for temporarily solution that we have the power to implement as meta game, while encouraging CCP to provide the needed ground work to enjoy merc/hunting again. As I am not disagreeing but rather looking into this from other perspective.
So.. I guess I didnt mention that 10-100 locates a day was per member.. EVERY day..
But anywho.. the focus of the discussion should be that CCP does not acknowledge that it is an issue. The watchlist changed with no thought about other areas of use than for hunting Titans/supers. "The character watchlist is now known as the 'Buddy List' to better reflect its usage"
With removing a tool without replacing with another tool kills that kind of gameplay.
We have been waiting for 3 months now since CCP Lebowski told us we would get a respons on our feedback.
The easiest way to fix this.. bring back the watchlist and tie it to wardec mechanics. Then we are actually paying for the intel. the defender should also have watchlist available ofc. |
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1747
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Posted - 2016.06.13 17:27:53 -
[171] - Quote
Lord Razpataz wrote:Razor Axe wrote:Lord Razpataz wrote:For highsec hunting the watchlist was a tool for both defender and agressor, easy accesible by both sides. This made it the most fair mechanic in eve imho.
And saying its free intel.. well maybe. But using that intel to hunt is definitly not free. lvl4 is 250k per locate, and we ran tens maybe hundreds of locates.. every day. (lvl4 locate has a 30minute cooldown before you can run another one) To be able to run all those locates, we need standings at npc. And for that we had to missionrun or buy our way.
Oh.. and I almost forgot, the locate on a pilot is 10 minutes late. So when you finally get to the location the target is long gone if its moving. So new locate and repeat.
Whats "free" with that? I am not looking for unnecessary arguments that doesn't discuss a possible solution, however since you brought it up... I did add cheap/free and not free on its own. And also compare to say the cost for a trader, it is considerably cheap and fix cost depending on how many locates you would have used. And 250K * 100 = 25mill isk is still a cheap cost for this career, especially since I know the average location would be around 25 use divided between 8-15 other merc. Say it was 15, that is 1.666 milion isk per pilot. That to me is very cheap and almost free if you have managed to rank up to lvl 4 plus the other skills used for merc/hunting. This is purely subjective so you can say I am wrong, but comparing with other career who have to spend 100 million to do what they do alone, it is cheap in my opinion. However, the focus of this discussion should be around: A) What would be fair towards all pilots/career? B) What can CCP do to implement/adjust previous features to make it fair? C) What can we do meanwhile to ensure the merc business stays fun, engaging and worth the effort? These are really my concern and interest, to look for temporarily solution that we have the power to implement as meta game, while encouraging CCP to provide the needed ground work to enjoy merc/hunting again. As I am not disagreeing but rather looking into this from other perspective. So.. I guess I didnt mention that 10-100 locates a day was per member.. EVERY day.. But anywho.. the focus of the discussion should be that CCP does not acknowledge that it is an issue. The watchlist changed with no thought about other areas of use than for hunting Titans/supers. "The character watchlist is now known as the 'Buddy List' to better reflect its usage" With removing a tool without replacing with another tool kills that kind of gameplay. We have been waiting for 3 months now since CCP Lebowski told us we would get a respons on our feedback. The easiest way to fix this.. bring back the watchlist and tie it to wardec mechanics. Then we are actually paying for the intel. the defender should also have watchlist available ofc.
But wouldn't fights over observational structures giving this intel be a lot better, then smaller entities can be a pain in the ass and be rewarded for fighting back and you chaps have skin in the game having to put up and look after these structures. Of course the pipe and hub campers will just place them so they get the intel of these people moving into the covered constellations. Then we end up with a whole set of emergent game play around them. My bet was that the mercs would hate having to defend something and that is why they will say no to it, its always more fun to be the attacker, but unless you have skin in the game it will continue to be the same boring stale shite it is now and before the watch list was removed.
At least now we can potter around away from the main areas and they don't even bother, not one war deccer have I seen come after me from the two last war decs. Its just so meh...
COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
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Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
311
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Posted - 2016.06.13 17:41:40 -
[172] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote: But wouldn't fights over observational structures giving this intel be a lot better, then smaller entities can be a pain in the ass and be rewarded for fighting back and you chaps have skin in the game having to put up and look after these structures. Of course the pipe and hub campers will just place them so they get the intel of these people moving into the covered constellations. Then we end up with a whole set of emergent game play around them. My bet was that the mercs would hate having to defend something and that is why they will say no to it, its always more fun to be the attacker, but unless you have skin in the game it will continue to be the same boring stale shite it is now and before the watch list was removed.
At least now we can potter around away from the main areas and they don't even bother, not one war deccer have I seen come after me from the two last war decs. Its just so meh...
I'm open for any other option that could replace the watchlist as a tool for highsec hunting. I'm just saying by combining it with wardec mechanics would invalid all the reasoning for the buddylist change. And be the easiest "fix"
But since CCP dont want to respond or acknowledge it kinda falls on deaf ears. Almost any solution would be better than killing an emergent gameplay like this. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1751
|
Posted - 2016.06.13 18:45:00 -
[173] - Quote
Lord Razpataz wrote:Dracvlad wrote: But wouldn't fights over observational structures giving this intel be a lot better, then smaller entities can be a pain in the ass and be rewarded for fighting back and you chaps have skin in the game having to put up and look after these structures. Of course the pipe and hub campers will just place them so they get the intel of these people moving into the covered constellations. Then we end up with a whole set of emergent game play around them. My bet was that the mercs would hate having to defend something and that is why they will say no to it, its always more fun to be the attacker, but unless you have skin in the game it will continue to be the same boring stale shite it is now and before the watch list was removed.
At least now we can potter around away from the main areas and they don't even bother, not one war deccer have I seen come after me from the two last war decs. Its just so meh...
I'm open for any other option that could replace the watchlist as a tool for highsec hunting. I'm just saying by combining it with wardec mechanics would invalid all the reasoning for the buddylist change. And be the easiest "fix" But since CCP dont want to respond or acknowledge it kinda falls on deaf ears. Almost any solution would be better than killing an emergent gameplay like this.
I find their failure to talk to you very surprising, I just hope they go with what I keep suggesting because it is a content driver, but CCP tend to listen only to the big alliances and have neglected hisec and small entities for ages and I believe will continue to do so, as this silence seems to indicate.
I have heard talk about the impact on local by the new Observatory structures and that is going to cause some upset.
COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
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Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
319
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Posted - 2016.06.14 17:46:21 -
[174] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Lord Razpataz wrote:I'm open for any other option that could replace the watchlist as a tool for highsec hunting. I'm just saying by combining it with wardec mechanics would invalid all the reasoning for the buddylist change. And be the easiest "fix" But since CCP dont want to respond or acknowledge it kinda falls on deaf ears. Almost any solution would be better than killing an emergent gameplay like this. I find their failure to talk to you very surprising, I just hope they go with what I keep suggesting because it is a content driver, but CCP tend to listen only to the big alliances and have neglected hisec and small entities for ages and I believe will continue to do so, as this silence seems to indicate. I have heard talk about the impact on local by the new Observatory structures and that is going to cause some upset. Well, I'm definitely getting the silent treatment.
Lets see.. I've tried the eve forums, twitter and even personal messages on slack with no luck. Havent touched reddit tho, but feel like thats no point with the downvoting thing.
What to do next? Give up? **** no... I have more patience than this
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Xolve
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2563
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Posted - 2016.06.15 07:54:03 -
[175] - Quote
Lord Razpataz wrote:So.. I guess I didnt mention that 10-100 locates a day was per member.. EVERY day...
Maybe include the expected cost of locates into the negotiated cost of the wardec based on the size of target corp/alliance?
Everything that's been brought up in this thread can be solved by simply charging the client more money. Besides- if you don't want to track down targets- don't. There's plenty of business defending citadels, attacking citadels, bashing highsec POSes, trade hub denial (how this is still a thing i'll never understand), and general harassment contracts available. |
Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
324
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Posted - 2016.06.15 08:39:15 -
[176] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Lord Razpataz wrote:So.. I guess I didnt mention that 10-100 locates a day was per member.. EVERY day... Maybe include the expected cost of locates into the negotiated cost of the wardec based on the size of target corp/alliance? Everything that's been brought up in this thread can be solved by simply charging the client more money. Besides- if you don't want to track down targets- don't. There's plenty of business defending citadels, attacking citadels, bashing highsec POSes, trade hub denial (how this is still a thing i'll never understand), and general harassment contracts available.
The answer for everything is not charging more of the client.. its 42.
Devils was specialized in hunting. ie, tracking the ****** down. Paying us more would maybe give us more incentive.. but the work involved would still burn us out.
And to be fair.. with hubhumping enteties takes on contracts for just above dec cost, just to have more "free" wars. Raising the cost is not an option, even before watchlist we "asked to much" and lost clients due to that.
Edit: And if you didnt know.. the quote you posted is what we did BEFORE the change.. now that we dont know who's online.. we basicly have to run even more. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
16327
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Posted - 2016.06.15 08:56:47 -
[177] - Quote
charging the client more isk dosent solve anything, if cost were the issue we wouldnt be having a conversation at all because we would be rolling around in contracts being the specialist kill-the-gits-where-they-hide mercenarys. That would be worth the isk hit out of my own pocket.
Better the Devil you know.
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Xolve
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2564
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Posted - 2016.06.15 09:32:32 -
[178] - Quote
Lord Razpataz wrote:Devils was specialized in hunting. ie, tracking the ****** down. Paying us more would maybe give us more incentive.. but the work involved would still burn us out.
Perhaps it's time to murder spaceships outside of highsec then?
It costs significantly less, has better fights, and you can pretty much shoot everyone. |
Lord Razpataz
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
324
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Posted - 2016.06.15 09:47:17 -
[179] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Lord Razpataz wrote:Devils was specialized in hunting. ie, tracking the ****** down. Paying us more would maybe give us more incentive.. but the work involved would still burn us out. Perhaps it's time to murder spaceships outside of highsec then? It costs significantly less, has better fights, and you can pretty much shoot everyone. Bah.. Not sure how many times I've heard that by now..
"Your gameplay broken? no worries mine still works. Why dont you do that?"
It does'nt change the fact that CCP killed an emergent gameplay.
Let me ask, would that have been a solution when Fozzie sov came out and everyone in 0.0 was bitching about troll ceptors? Just do something else? Give up? |
Xolve
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2564
|
Posted - 2016.06.15 16:15:26 -
[180] - Quote
Lord Razpataz wrote:
It does'nt change the fact that CCP killed an emergent gameplay.
Let me ask, would that have been a solution when Fozzie sov came out and everyone in 0.0 was bitching about troll ceptors? Just do something else? Give up?
Killing people in highsec isn't 'emergent gameplay', it's killing people in Highsec.
Sorry that a good change towards watch lists, that kills the opportunity for fights is preventing you from killing mission runners. You said the effort wasn't worth it anymore, I just suggested trying something else. |
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