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Pelea Ming
Space Dandies
335
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Posted - 2016.04.28 15:51:01 -
[1] - Quote
Recently, there has been a change here.
Previously, an attribute was displayed called Tracking Speed, which I found very useful.
This has now been replaced with Weapon Accuracy.... and I find myself somewhat at a loss.
With Tracking Speed, I could set my Overview to display target Angular Velocity, and know that, all things (read: maths) being equal, I would hit when Tracking Speed was greater then Angular Velocity, with a small amount of 'grey area' when the numbers were very close.
I no longer have Tracking Speed. Now, I have Weapon Accuracy. So, precisely what should my overview display to similarly equate to what I'm used to using? |
Aluanna
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
21
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Posted - 2016.04.28 16:38:03 -
[2] - Quote
Pelea Ming wrote:Recently, there has been a change here.
Previously, an attribute was displayed called Tracking Speed, which I found very useful.
This has now been replaced with Weapon Accuracy.... and I find myself somewhat at a loss.
With Tracking Speed, I could set my Overview to display target Angular Velocity, and know that, all things (read: maths) being equal, I would hit when Tracking Speed was greater then Angular Velocity, with a small amount of 'grey area' when the numbers were very close.
I no longer have Tracking Speed. Now, I have Weapon Accuracy. So, precisely what should my overview display to similarly equate to what I'm used to using?
My best guess is that it's an unfinished feature that is supposed to be comparable to numbers that will be shown in the new fitting window they are working on..
The new fitting window is supposed to show more relevant information, instead of inertia modifier and such, we get actual align time and stuff..
so my guess is it's just unfinished as of now.
Ideas for missile launchers to make firing missiles more interesting/rewarding
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Pelea Ming
Space Dandies
335
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Posted - 2016.04.28 17:07:36 -
[3] - Quote
in that case.... don't remove tracking speed till it's done! Your severaly nerfing a LOT of eve players that are aware of this method of 'on the fly' accuracy determination until the new system is fully in place! |
ISD Fractal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1171
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Posted - 2016.04.28 17:17:56 -
[4] - Quote
As far as I'm aware, an opponent's angular velocity could only be compared to your guns' tracking speed if you both had the same size of signature. Against targets of differing sizes, the angular velocity only provided an approximation. Mathematically nothing has changed with the new system but it makes the mental math more tedious, plus you still have the problem of differing ship signatures. It does, however, allow you to compare tracking speeds across weapons much easier because they are directly comparable.
Unfortunately I'm not sure where that leaves us. Perhaps at some point there will be an easily comparable column in the overview that can be compared against the new system. There is a thread discussing this over in Features and Ideas.
ISD Fractal
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
15247
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Posted - 2016.04.28 17:25:10 -
[5] - Quote
two actually, slacking on the job there Fractal
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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ISD Fractal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1171
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Posted - 2016.04.28 17:27:22 -
[6] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:two actually, slacking on the job there Fractal And another one over discussing it in the Test Server Feedback forum. Google went nuts when I searched for threads related to it. ;)
ISD Fractal
Lieutenant
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
191
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Posted - 2016.04.28 17:58:05 -
[7] - Quote
If you fly well enough, you won't have to worry much about all that mental math. This tracking concept has existed as an issue from the days of the first turrets.
You'd actually need to know if the tracking game mechanic is accurate, I can tell you from my own testing... it doesn't appear to be. I think they kinda fudged on the math here because doing too much of it would probably burden the systems. In the end, it appears to be a rough approximation of tracking math which is actually far more reality than most games put into turret issues, so kudos to CCP there.
I have found that if you put your target into a tail chase, or you on chase on them, your turrets are pretty accurate as the Angular Velocity (to use the term used above) is not that great. Your target is in a 'cone' of acceptable tracking for the weapons to fire. If you have a high rate of transverse, (you are being orbited) then your turrets have horrible precision. If you are orbiting someone that isn't moving off their relative position from you much in transverse, it's like the chase scenario.
So your job as the ship pilot is to stabilize the relative positions of the ships from each other. Try flying like this some time, it's not easy but if you can get the hang of it, it works and you can dispense with the mental math gymnastics. However, unless you can get into the golden position of being the orbing on vs. being orbited, your foe will have about as much of a firing advantage as you do, and if they are smaller, they will always have the firing advantage up close. Distance is your friend to cut down on tracking problems. It's why I like to engage targets at beyond 30km out.
Now, the reality being different from the game, the most modern systems will not 'fire' wasted shots unless they are overridden to do so. They will wait until they have a track on the target and have a chance at hitting it. Most projectiles have proximity detonation now to increase that effectiveness zone of the target. The weapons have their own sensor systems and command to projectile systems that leave the turret in full control of itself. Here's a system that's been around for a few years now.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
6019
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Posted - 2016.04.28 22:04:10 -
[8] - Quote
I find shooting stuff, observing the results, and adjusting my attack to be effective.
I never had any radians on my overview. |
Pelea Ming
Space Dandies
335
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Posted - 2016.04.29 14:41:51 -
[9] - Quote
Well, when doing any sort of PvE combat, I mostly use amarr cruisers, and I know that with T2 Pulse/Scorch or Imp Nav Multi (switched when they get 'under my guns' with the Scorch) I could, at my leasure, either orbit, 'chase', or just sit still if I was being particularly lazy, and regardless of target size, directly compare my Tracking Speed vs target Angular Velocity (ignoring for the time being that 'gray area' when the two numbers were 'close') know with certainty that I would hit or miss, and if I were to miss, then do something to make the target angular drop.
in 6 years, this method of dealing with rats in combat has never failed me (at least, with my medium lasers, and again, regardless of the target's size, whether frig, cruiser, or bs). |
Memphis Baas
1482
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Posted - 2016.04.29 15:11:08 -
[10] - Quote
This change is annoying.
The signature size of the target is a mostly-static value, however its angular velocity can change a lot during the fight, so the Tracking Speed vs. Angular Velocity (in the overview) comparison was extremely useful.
You guys can spew the bullshit about "not needed if you're flying well", but now we have to guess or estimate a value that we could just look at before.
CCP can suck it. |
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Pelea Ming
Space Dandies
336
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Posted - 2016.04.30 17:30:44 -
[11] - Quote
Look, I'mm not arguing against displaying the Weapon Speed. I admit, it is nice to be able to look at weapon A and compare that attribute vs weapon B along side of raw damage effects to better determine which you want to use.
All I'm saying is, ALSO keep Tracking Speed listed. Is it really so hard to keep in place a line item number in the show info panel?
At LEAST until you decide to properly adjust Overview options to provide us with a proper reflection of this new Weapon Accuracy. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1394
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Posted - 2016.04.30 21:49:07 -
[12] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:This change is annoying.
The signature size of the target is a mostly-static value, however its angular velocity can change a lot during the fight, so the Tracking Speed vs. Angular Velocity (in the overview) comparison was extremely useful.
You guys can spew the bullshit about "not needed if you're flying well", but now we have to guess or estimate a value that we could just look at before.
CCP can suck it. I've not had much of a use for angular velocity on my overview before but I think that has more to do with how my vision works.
Regardless of if this particular change affects me or not, to me this seems part of a larger trend in this game that is leading towards dumbing it down. It seems more and more CCP is focusing on dumbing down game mechanics and / or taking away sources of information gathering to make combat simpler. Even when they redesigned the web page several years back they made everything prettier and less functional. Before it was very easy to find the information you needed on the webpage but then they made it so that you could find very pretty sales propaganda very easily but trying to find things like patch notes was very difficult.
I agree with Memphis that the dumbing down of this game is not appreciated, at least not by me. |
Pelea Ming
Space Dandies
338
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Posted - 2016.06.27 17:02:39 -
[13] - Quote
all I know is, when I'm dealing with PvE, I tend to fly amarr cruisers, specifically, laser boats. In my experience with these, I have always found that comparing my current tracking speed vs target angular velocity, whether a frigate or otherwise, has always proved whether I was hitting or not while within optimal range.
the Devs are now claiming that by their math, I must be wrong.
I don't know what math they are using. I didn't use any math, I just compared the numbers and found them accurate. The only thing I saw target signature radius affect was how much damage I was hitting for. |
Memphis Baas
1653
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Posted - 2016.06.27 17:23:45 -
[14] - Quote
CCP have not changed their minds on this change, and we still agree with you that it's annoying and not implemented correctly, but necro'ing (replying to a post after it's gone inactive for more than a week or two) is frowned upon. Nothing more we can do, anyway. |
Pelea Ming
Space Dandies
340
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Posted - 2016.06.28 05:40:08 -
[15] - Quote
But, see, that in and of itself, then, is a problem! By just rolling over on it and letting the issue 'die', we are in essence telling them that dealing with the issue doesn't matter. We need to be more vocal, get more people responding, not just let it drift off into thin air unresolved! |
Memphis Baas
1658
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Posted - 2016.06.28 09:56:07 -
[16] - Quote
So I guess we'll see you in Jita in about 2 months as you resurrect the issue again by shooting the monument. |
Tsukino Stareine
Art Of Explosions 404 Hole Not Found
1535
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Posted - 2016.06.28 10:07:15 -
[17] - Quote
I believe there are plans in place to add a new overview column that shows "accuracy" or something to that effect.
However I do agree, replacing tracking speed with this bullshit before implementing the overview column to go with it was a really stupid idea. Unfortunately this is concurrent with a lot of CCP's moves recently. |
Pelea Ming
Space Dandies
340
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Posted - 2016.06.28 10:46:31 -
[18] - Quote
absolutely, it also falls neatly in line with their 'pvp is all that really matters when we attempt to balance a ship' motto... just look at the Abbadon, practically never used in PvP outside of specialty fleets unless it's fitted with 1400s, and in PvE anyone who knows better never even bothers to buy one. |
Jinn McKellin
Easy Company Tactical Unit Amplified.
14
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Posted - 2016.06.28 12:32:02 -
[19] - Quote
Effort........fly ship.....aim gun......shot gun......if lucky.......boom.....very rarely lucky......eve is hard. |
Pelea Ming
Space Dandies
340
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Posted - 2016.06.28 12:53:30 -
[20] - Quote
Jinn McKellin wrote:Effort........fly ship.....aim gun......shot gun......if lucky.......boom.....very rarely lucky......eve is hard.
rofl!
I know, I know, it's not like I NEED the info... but I spend a lot of time helping out new players, and one of the things I used to do was to teach them about tracking speed vs angular velocity to help them improve on not wasting ammo. |
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