Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Bunnie Hop
Bunny Knights
604
|
Posted - 2016.05.02 11:08:36 -
[1] - Quote
I have played since June 2003 (this is account number 5) and have seen many people come and go thru the years. I have thought of retention based upon what they have said and what I would like to see.
First I would make Hi-sec gank free (this includes bump-free). A safe place for industrialists and mission runners to build their base of operations and build up a community of players. Ganking is NOT pvp in any real sense of the word and nobody should feel brave or good about themselves for doing it. It pushes many people out of the game as face it, not everyone wants to be prey when they play a game. That is not to say remove hi-sec pvp entirely as war decs should continue (though those need a revamp in a bad way), though war dec harassment should be addressed thru better mechanics.
PVP, is one of the most important things in the game. It drives the economy thru demand of ship and module replacements. I would add a new currency for pvp that is used to buy special edition ships and modules that can only be obtained with pvp currency. Those ships and modules would not be tradeable, thus if you want one, you go fight for the right to own it! That would give many hi-seccers more incentive to leave their comfort zone and do more roams and low and null sec incursions with friends and lead to much more ships being destroyed. This currency would be awarded to pilots involved in destruction, pure lovely destruction and the amount awarded would be based upon the value of destruction.
I think these changes would retain many more people and lead to a more vibrant economy.
PS: before you make your usual insults, I haven't been ganked since mOo roamed the stars nor do I have tears for you. |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
2453
|
Posted - 2016.05.02 11:49:23 -
[2] - Quote
Bunnie Hop wrote:First I would make Hi-sec gank free (this includes bump-free). A safe place for industrialists and mission runners to build their base of operations and build up a community of players. You have really played for 13 years? Why would CCP decide now, after all this time, to throw the fundamental design of the game out? Isn't it a bit late for that?
Bunnie Hop wrote:Ganking is NOT pvp in any real sense of the word and nobody should feel brave or good about themselves for doing it. It is. One player is the prey and one player the predator. I feel pretty good when I gain some resources in the shared universe by outplaying another player and taking their stuff. Who are you to tell me that I should not take satisfaction in outmaneuvering another player in a PvP game?
Bunnie Hop wrote:It pushes many people out of the game as face it, not everyone wants to be prey when they play a game. It does? CCP told us that more new players seem to stay with the game if they are preyed upon during the trial.
Certainly, making it impossible to prey on other player would push other players out of the game who play to be predators. Why are you so sure that your idea wouldn't cause a net loss of players when the predators leave?
Bunnie Hop wrote:PVP, is one of the most important things in the game. It drives the economy thru demand of ship and module replacements. I would add a new currency for pvp that is used to buy special edition ships and modules... So why are you proposing to make PvP in highsec impossible? And since PvP is so important as you say, why not propose to make highsec safe and remove all rewards except a special PvE currency there that can only be used to by cosmetic items and thus not affect the real economy of New Eden. At least that proposal might not have the obvious side-effect of destroying the entire player-driven economy of New Eden.
Bunnie Hop wrote:I think these changes would retain many more people and lead to a more vibrant economy. I don't. It would completely destroy the economy. This change would additionally completely gut the fundamental game design and game play of Eve Online.
I give it my most vehement -1 ever.
Why Do They Gank?
|
Bunnie Hop
Bunny Knights
604
|
Posted - 2016.05.02 12:02:06 -
[3] - Quote
BP, even CCP acknowledges player retention is terrible and I have never seen anything about people staying in the game if they are preyed upon during early game experience...Ganking in hi sec was not a fundamental part of the game nor was bumping. Early game months even CCP manned ships to destroy the most gankiest corp of the time, mOo and a dev made a forum post stating that bumping other ships to turn off their axis to prevent warp was an offense. Sorry but I dont think ganking a non combat ship is pvp in a true sense either. |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
2453
|
Posted - 2016.05.02 12:17:52 -
[4] - Quote
Bunnie Hop wrote:BP, even CCP acknowledges player retention is terrible and I have never seen anything about people staying in the game if they are preyed upon during early game experience... I linked you the presentation. You don't even have to watch all of it as CCP Rise covers the point in the first few minutes. He also addressed this last year on these forums.
Bunnie Hop wrote:Ganking in hi sec was not a fundamental part of the game nor was bumping. Early game months even CCP manned ships to destroy the most gankiest corp of the time, mOo and a dev made a forum post stating that bumping other ships to turn off their axis to prevent warp was an offense. Sorry but I dont think ganking a non combat ship is pvp in a true sense either. Of course it is. CCP has confirmed that ganking and bumping is intended gameplay many times.
I don't know why you do not consider players flying a mining ship or a hauler not to be real players. Granted, they tend not to do much, but there is a real human being making decisions behind the keyboard that determines whether they will win or lose an encounter with an aggressor. Do you consider exploding a bait Procurer to be real PvP while a pilot who gets ganked while mining with the same ship not to be PvP? Forgive me, but this eBushido code many players cling to always confuses me as to what is "real" PvP and what is not.
I guess "real" PvP is like pornography - you'll know it when you see it.
I think the problem is just that you may be playing the wrong game.
Why Do They Gank?
|
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4378
|
Posted - 2016.05.02 12:54:26 -
[5] - Quote
If you have no experience with ganking, nor PVP of any description according to zkill, why do you think anyone is going to listen to your demand that pvp be removed from a significant part of the game?
Or are you posting with your alt? |
Bunnie Hop
Bunny Knights
604
|
Posted - 2016.05.02 13:00:52 -
[6] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:If you have no experience with ganking, nor PVP of any description according to zkill, why do you think anyone is going to listen to your demand that pvp be removed from a significant part of the game?
Or are you posting with your alt?
Of course I am posting with an alt, well of sorts. I have 5 accounts. I made no demand, I made a suggestion. But in typical EVE fashion, the forum warriors misquote, misread, misinterpret and so on. I think my suggestion would increase and improve pvp btw.
Also BP, you are not wrong, nor entirely correct as CCP's stance on mechanics has changed over the years. Yes currently they say its an intended mechanic, but a decade ago they said its an offense that would result in infractions.
|
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3225
|
Posted - 2016.05.02 13:03:52 -
[7] - Quote
Bunnie Hop wrote:BP, even CCP acknowledges player retention is terrible and I have never seen anything about people staying in the game if they are preyed upon during early game experience...Ganking in hi sec was not a fundamental part of the game nor was bumping. Early game months even CCP manned ships to destroy the most gankiest corp of the time, mOo and a dev made a forum post stating that bumping other ships to turn off their axis to prevent warp was an offense. Sorry but I dont think ganking a non combat ship is pvp in a true sense either.
You have also never seen anything that says players quit because they are preyed upon early in the game. Ganking is not something that is often carried out against new players. New players do not fly valuable ships carrying expensive cargo.
Ganking is a good mechanic. It keeps us engaged in the game, it drives competition between haulers and miners, it encourages players to work together, increases demand of materials for industrials players and allows the smart and hardworking to take money from the dumb, greedy and lazy. It's good for adding risk where there would otherwise be none.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
|
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4378
|
Posted - 2016.05.02 13:08:38 -
[8] - Quote
Bunnie Hop wrote:Danika Princip wrote:If you have no experience with ganking, nor PVP of any description according to zkill, why do you think anyone is going to listen to your demand that pvp be removed from a significant part of the game?
Or are you posting with your alt? Of course I am posting with an alt, well of sorts. I have 5 accounts. I made no demand, I made a suggestion. But in typical EVE fashion, the forum warriors misquote, misread, misinterpret and so on. I think my suggestion would increase and improve pvp btw. Also BP, you are not wrong, nor entirely correct as CCP's stance on mechanics has changed over the years. Yes currently they say its an intended mechanic, but a decade ago they said its an offense that would result in infractions.
You can't increase and improve pvp by flat out removing it from a significant portion of the game, even if you do bring in a 'kill your alt for points' system you've clearly cribbed from WoW.
What does CCP's stance on things a decade ago have to do with anything? They used t say remote doomsdays were fine and there would only ever be a handful of titans in the game, and look how that turned out. |
Bunnie Hop
Bunny Knights
604
|
Posted - 2016.05.02 13:40:25 -
[9] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Bunnie Hop wrote:Danika Princip wrote:If you have no experience with ganking, nor PVP of any description according to zkill, why do you think anyone is going to listen to your demand that pvp be removed from a significant part of the game?
Or are you posting with your alt? Of course I am posting with an alt, well of sorts. I have 5 accounts. I made no demand, I made a suggestion. But in typical EVE fashion, the forum warriors misquote, misread, misinterpret and so on. I think my suggestion would increase and improve pvp btw. Also BP, you are not wrong, nor entirely correct as CCP's stance on mechanics has changed over the years. Yes currently they say its an intended mechanic, but a decade ago they said its an offense that would result in infractions. You can't increase and improve pvp by flat out removing it from a significant portion of the game, even if you do bring in a 'kill your alt for points' system you've clearly cribbed from WoW. What does CCP's stance on things a decade ago have to do with anything? They used t say remote doomsdays were fine and there would only ever be a handful of titans in the game, and look how that turned out.
I never played WoW so don't get the reference. I gave their stance a decade ago as BP said something is a fundamental part of the game, which is untrue. |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
4186
|
Posted - 2016.05.02 13:53:08 -
[10] - Quote
Bring back shooting AOE doomsdays through a cyno. |
|
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
990
|
Posted - 2016.05.02 14:52:56 -
[11] - Quote
You are full of it, nobody who has been playing eve for that long and ACTUALLY played it would make suggestions so stupid.
Besides CCP have already banned most of the good gankers, they are nerfing bumping, plan to do another mining ship rebalance which will like the last one be a buff to ehp, buffed freighters twice, removed hyperdunking, removed insurance, nerfed response time in some systems, made citadels a no non-consensual pvp zone, made damage controls passive.
Should I go on about how much they have already screwed with gankers?
I think their plan is to actually make game like you are suggesting even though it is a terrible idea so they can keep the boring fat whales "happy" short term.
Long term everyone will biomass and leave this game because this game is so damn boring when there is no danger and risk involved.
Go play in rookie systems like the rest of the people who want to hide under their mothers skirt. Since CCP will not specify which people in rookie systems are a legal target for ganks.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
|
Isaac Armer
Tactical Stability Union Apocalypse Now.
191
|
Posted - 2016.05.02 15:04:34 -
[12] - Quote
Bunnie Hop wrote:I have played since June 2003 (this is account number 5) and have seen many people come and go thru the years. I have thought of retention based upon what they have said and what I would like to see.
First I would make Hi-sec gank free (this includes bump-free). A safe place for industrialists and mission runners to build their base of operations and build up a community of players.
HS (and a decent chunk of LS) is already nearly risk free. I have two main setups personally (as someone who doesn't PvP that often). HS missioning setups, where assuming I'm watching local and d-scanning, there is roughly no chance I will be ganked. It's not that hard to see combat probes and bug out.
I also have a LS setup for industry. It's pretty easy to find a pocket with virtually no one online and active in LS. Anyone paying attention to local, d-scanning and looking up names of other players (you have pirates little helper up all the time, right?) will have a very, very tough time getting ganked. |
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
990
|
Posted - 2016.05.02 15:18:14 -
[13] - Quote
Isaac Armer wrote: HS (and a decent chunk of LS) is already nearly risk free. I have two main setups personally (as someone who doesn't PvP that often). HS missioning setups, where assuming I'm watching local and d-scanning, there is roughly no chance I will be ganked. It's not that hard to see combat probes and bug out.
I also have a LS setup for industry. It's pretty easy to find a pocket with virtually no one online and active in LS. Anyone paying attention to local, d-scanning and looking up names of other players (you have pirates little helper up all the time, right?) will have a very, very tough time getting ganked.
People want passive zero effort safety, if they were already doing the mentioned they wouldn't be moaning about ganks.
They will get ganked in freighters and cry about it when they did not use a webber, scout or any form of support for their capital unarmed ship loaded with goods worth billions upon billions.
I haven't heard a single valid argument by any of them so far, all they claim is "good for eve".
You know what is good for eve? Conflict, because it creates content.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
|
Bunnie Hop
Bunny Knights
604
|
Posted - 2016.05.02 15:51:43 -
[14] - Quote
Arya Regnar wrote:You are full of it, nobody who has been playing eve for that long and ACTUALLY played it would make suggestions so stupid.
Besides CCP have already banned most of the good gankers, they are nerfing bumping, plan to do another mining ship rebalance which will like the last one be a buff to ehp, buffed freighters twice, removed hyperdunking, removed insurance, nerfed response time in some systems, made citadels a no non-consensual pvp zone, made damage controls passive.
Should I go on about how much they have already screwed with gankers?
I think their plan is to actually make game like you are suggesting even though it is a terrible idea so they can keep the boring fat whales "happy" short term.
Long term everyone will biomass and leave this game because this game is so damn boring when there is no danger and risk involved.
Go play in rookie systems like the rest of the people who want to hide under their mothers skirt. Since CCP will not specify which people in rookie systems are a legal target for ganks.
Well I have been playing this long (with breaks) but you didn't let me down. This is the response that is expected from the Eve forum community. I was merely making a suggestion, gankers, bumpers, etc. do not effect me but have caused many to leave. But do continue with your insults. I will laugh a little when this game dies because of people like you who belittle anyone for trying to make suggestions. |
Isaac Armer
Tactical Stability Union Apocalypse Now.
191
|
Posted - 2016.05.02 15:56:59 -
[15] - Quote
Bunnie Hop wrote:Well I have been playing this long (with breaks) but you didn't let me down. This is the response that is expected from the Eve forum community. I was merely making a suggestion, gankers, bumpers, etc. do not effect me but have caused many to leave. But do continue with your insults. I will laugh a little when this game dies because of people like you who belittle anyone for trying to make suggestions.
Hasn't the opposite been proven to be true? I haven't been playing for too long, but there were stats given by CCP that newbies who get killed/ganked/etc early in the game are more likely to stay than those who are never attacked.
Personally, as a heavily PvE-oriented person, If it was 100% risk free (ie, no one was allowed to gank me) I'm not sure I would keep my subscription active. I've played MMOs regularly since everquest 1 first came out, and after trying EVE I can't really go back to any other game. The lack of risk simply makes them boring. |
Bunnie Hop
Bunny Knights
604
|
Posted - 2016.05.02 16:01:08 -
[16] - Quote
Isaac Armer wrote:Bunnie Hop wrote:Well I have been playing this long (with breaks) but you didn't let me down. This is the response that is expected from the Eve forum community. I was merely making a suggestion, gankers, bumpers, etc. do not effect me but have caused many to leave. But do continue with your insults. I will laugh a little when this game dies because of people like you who belittle anyone for trying to make suggestions. Hasn't the opposite been proven to be true? I haven't been playing for too long, but there were stats given by CCP that newbies who get killed/ganked/etc early in the game are more likely to stay than those who are never attacked. Personally, as a heavily PvE-oriented person, If it was 100% risk free (ie, no one was allowed to gank me) I'm not sure I would keep my subscription active. I've played MMOs regularly since everquest 1 first came out, and after trying EVE I can't really go back to any other game. The lack of risk simply makes them boring.
Some people need that risk free environment and regardless of what the forum warriors state, the game has lost a huge player base over it. I simply suggested giving them that and then making more incentives for pvp in low and null. CCP is trying to rework its new player nonsense as a way to retain people, but I don't think that is their problem. But really, I knew better than to make a post on Eve forum. 9/10 people here are trolls and blowhards. |
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4378
|
Posted - 2016.05.02 16:04:19 -
[17] - Quote
Bunnie Hop wrote:Some people need that risk free environment
Then they are playing the wrong game, quite frankly. |
Isaac Armer
Tactical Stability Union Apocalypse Now.
191
|
Posted - 2016.05.02 16:06:00 -
[18] - Quote
Bunnie Hop wrote:Some people need that risk free environment and regardless of what the forum warriors state, the game has lost a huge player base over it. I simply suggested giving them that and then making more incentives for pvp in low and null. CCP is trying to rework its new player nonsense as a way to retain people, but I don't think that is their problem. But really, I knew better than to make a post on Eve forum. 9/10 people here are trolls and blowhards.
I hear what you're saying, but still disagree. EVE was designed to attract a specific playerbase. If you try to be everything to everyone, you end up pleasing no one. I would be very curious what your facts/sources are behind your claim that ganking causes players to leave the game, beyond mere personal opinions.
I do agree, however that there are a lot of trolls. Someone who claims to have played this game for 13 years saying HS space should be 100% risk free? I DO smell a troll.... |
Bunnie Hop
Bunny Knights
604
|
Posted - 2016.05.02 16:06:41 -
[19] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Bunnie Hop wrote:Some people need that risk free environment Then they are playing the wrong game, quite frankly.
Perhaps, but this will also make Eve just a niche game that earns a fraction of what it could. |
Isaac Armer
Tactical Stability Union Apocalypse Now.
191
|
Posted - 2016.05.02 16:09:26 -
[20] - Quote
Bunnie Hop wrote:Perhaps, but this will also make Eve just a niche game that earns a fraction of what it could.
So CCP should throw what makes EVE, EVE out the window for some extra cash? WoW in space? |
|
Bunnie Hop
Bunny Knights
604
|
Posted - 2016.05.02 16:10:30 -
[21] - Quote
Isaac Armer wrote:Bunnie Hop wrote:Some people need that risk free environment and regardless of what the forum warriors state, the game has lost a huge player base over it. I simply suggested giving them that and then making more incentives for pvp in low and null. CCP is trying to rework its new player nonsense as a way to retain people, but I don't think that is their problem. But really, I knew better than to make a post on Eve forum. 9/10 people here are trolls and blowhards. I hear what you're saying, but still disagree. EVE was designed to attract a specific playerbase. If you try to be everything to everyone, you end up pleasing no one. I would be very curious what your facts/sources are behind your claim that ganking causes players to leave the game, beyond mere personal opinions. I do agree, however that there are a lot of trolls. Someone who claims to have played this game for 13 years saying HS space should be 100% risk free? I DO smell a troll....
I started in June 03, I come and go. I have seen many corpmates and rl friends quit and read the forums every step of the way. I wont give you all my account details or post with an 03 character, but CCP can see my account details and hey, ban me if I am lying. How is making a suggestion a troll? |
Bunnie Hop
Bunny Knights
604
|
Posted - 2016.05.02 16:11:26 -
[22] - Quote
Isaac Armer wrote:Bunnie Hop wrote:Perhaps, but this will also make Eve just a niche game that earns a fraction of what it could. So CCP should throw what makes EVE, EVE out the window for some extra cash? WoW in space?
Oh lets not talk extremes. The game has evolved over the years, why should it not continue to try to evolve and find things that can work better. |
Isaac Armer
Tactical Stability Union Apocalypse Now.
191
|
Posted - 2016.05.02 16:14:09 -
[23] - Quote
Bunnie Hop wrote:Oh lets not talk extremes. The game has evolved over the years, why should it not continue to try to evolve and find things that can work better.
Show me anything beyond your opinion that suggests what you're saying would improve player retention and we can talk. |
Iain Cariaba
2942
|
Posted - 2016.05.02 16:25:32 -
[24] - Quote
Bunnie Hop wrote:Yeah you may as well lock this, making a suggestion on an Eve forum is a waste of time.....Lovely community this is Well, what did you expect when you propose an idea that is counter-intuitive to pretty much everything this game stands for?
And yes, this is a great community. It's a community that stands up and tries to keep people like you from making EvE into WoW in space.
If someone wants to play in a risk free environment, there's literally hundreds of options available to them. If someone likes having to mitigate risk and having the possibility to lose it all in an instant, there's not a whole lot of places to find that.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
|
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2537
|
Posted - 2016.05.02 17:26:37 -
[25] - Quote
I've got one kill in high sec in 9 years of Eve (in self defense during my first war Dev) and even I think your proposal is terrible.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
|
Lugh Crow-Slave
2378
|
Posted - 2016.05.02 17:44:46 -
[26] - Quote
Bunnie Hop wrote:Yeah you may as well lock this, making a suggestion on an Eve forum is a waste of time.....Lovely community this is
your suggestion was to remove a core concept of eve (no place is safe) the hell did you expect?
Citadel worm hole tax
|
Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
743
|
Posted - 2016.05.02 18:23:46 -
[27] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Bunnie Hop wrote:Yeah you may as well lock this, making a suggestion on an Eve forum is a waste of time.....Lovely community this is your suggestion was to remove a core concept of eve (no place is safe) the hell did you expect?
Seconded. |
Isaac Armer
Tactical Stability Union Apocalypse Now.
192
|
Posted - 2016.05.02 18:36:06 -
[28] - Quote
Bunnie Hop wrote:I started in June 03, I come and go. I have seen many corpmates and rl friends quit and read the forums every step of the way. I wont give you all my account details or post with an 03 character, but CCP can see my account details and hey, ban me if I am lying. How is making a suggestion a troll?
"I won't give details and won't post with my main, but lol, just trust me that I'm an experienced vet"
Right....If that's the game we're playing, this is an alt of a 2003 character as well, and I've seen countless people leave over the last 13 years because HS is far too safe. I'm not going to give names or older characters or any proof whatsoever, but plz trust me. See? I can do that too!
|
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
992
|
Posted - 2016.05.03 02:51:10 -
[29] - Quote
I've been playing since 2011 and while it is rare that people I went after message me it has happened, you would be surprised that people would actually say Quote:hey thanks for ganking me I was getting bored with this game because mining is so uneventful and when I died I tried to figure out what happened and got into pvp and had a lot of fun so I'm staying
Eve is a niche game, that risk makes it sandbox and validates the niche, you remove that risk you kill the niche and outside of that niche it's not a good game at all.
I hope the shareholders see that and decide to go for long term not 1 year plan to milk this game and then watch it die.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
|
Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
159
|
Posted - 2016.05.03 05:07:35 -
[30] - Quote
Q wrote:It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross. But it's not for the timid.
And that's one of the core design philosophies of this game.
A signature :o
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |