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Wizzkidy
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Posted - 2007.02.22 12:52:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Inspector Sidorenkova
I generally don't understand what CCP doing. They want to drop down t2 prices, or just remove rich people from the game? No, i don't have t2 BPO, but i buying a lot of t2 items from these lucky people. I like PvP, and i will not spend my time to exploration, invention, etc. What will happen without t2 BPO? PRICES WILL GROW UP!!! Economics based on supply and demand. People will never invent enough quantity of t2 BPC's. Without t2 BPOs supply will drops down, prices will grow up. Bye, bye t2 ships and fit, it will be like faction ones :(
Not if invention works correctly, invention CAN work to provide Tech 2 prices at an all time low if implimented correctly
The fact remains that T2 BPO's need to be removed for invention to fully work otherwise people just are not going to bother.
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Wizzkidy
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Posted - 2007.02.22 12:52:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Inspector Sidorenkova
I generally don't understand what CCP doing. They want to drop down t2 prices, or just remove rich people from the game? No, i don't have t2 BPO, but i buying a lot of t2 items from these lucky people. I like PvP, and i will not spend my time to exploration, invention, etc. What will happen without t2 BPO? PRICES WILL GROW UP!!! Economics based on supply and demand. People will never invent enough quantity of t2 BPC's. Without t2 BPOs supply will drops down, prices will grow up. Bye, bye t2 ships and fit, it will be like faction ones :(
Not if invention works correctly, invention CAN work to provide Tech 2 prices at an all time low if implimented correctly
The fact remains that T2 BPO's need to be removed for invention to fully work otherwise people just are not going to bother.
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Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc.
INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.02.22 12:57:00 -
[63]
CCP can't be serious about just removing the lottery and not doing something about existing BPO owners huge advantage over the rest of the gamers.
Does CCP really want another outcry about favoritism towards specific players (who incidentally are much the same as the earlier outcry)? Stop catering to your personal friends!
Alternatives are simple.
1. Seed T2 BPOs on the market for isk, or let R&D agents sell them for isk and some datacores. That levels the playing field, while a suitably high price for BPOs ensures that current BPO holders are not screwed over completely (they'd lose much of the profits, but if say an interceptor/AF BPO goes for 5b isk and an interdictor BPO for say 7-8B, HAC for 12b etc, they would still have a sizeable chunk of cash).
2. Move invention to Tech 3.
That way we can do a lot of things at the same time:
- Level playing field in the T2 market
- Current BPO holders not screwed over completely, BPO would retain significant value even though profitlevels would drop.
- New level playing field in the T3 market, greatly encouraging invention. Currently invention is hindered by the fact that inventors will never be able to compete with T2 BPO holders for prices. If invention is moved to Tech 3, then it really becomes worthwhile.
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In completely unrelated news, after careful research, the Guiding Hand Social Club concludes that no member of the Guiding Hand Social Club is guilty of corptheft. |
Malachon Draco
eXceed Inc.
INVICTUS.
|
Posted - 2007.02.22 12:57:00 -
[64]
CCP can't be serious about just removing the lottery and not doing something about existing BPO owners huge advantage over the rest of the gamers.
Does CCP really want another outcry about favoritism towards specific players (who incidentally are much the same as the earlier outcry)? Stop catering to your personal friends!
Alternatives are simple.
1. Seed T2 BPOs on the market for isk, or let R&D agents sell them for isk and some datacores. That levels the playing field, while a suitably high price for BPOs ensures that current BPO holders are not screwed over completely (they'd lose much of the profits, but if say an interceptor/AF BPO goes for 5b isk and an interdictor BPO for say 7-8B, HAC for 12b etc, they would still have a sizeable chunk of cash).
2. Move invention to Tech 3.
That way we can do a lot of things at the same time:
- Level playing field in the T2 market
- Current BPO holders not screwed over completely, BPO would retain significant value even though profitlevels would drop.
- New level playing field in the T3 market, greatly encouraging invention. Currently invention is hindered by the fact that inventors will never be able to compete with T2 BPO holders for prices. If invention is moved to Tech 3, then it really becomes worthwhile.
--------------
In completely unrelated news, after careful research, the Guiding Hand Social Club concludes that no member of the Guiding Hand Social Club is guilty of corptheft. |
Newton Mara
Tecktonic Industries
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Posted - 2007.02.22 13:05:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Kryss Darkdust
....lots of words....
Let me put it in terms you can understand, as your BPO seems to be clouding your view:
- Grown ups are talking.
- Stop posting.
So far your argument is based on flawed ideas and has no isight as to the effect of the market. I know it's tough for you T2 BPO holders to understand but the game is not about you. Newbies want a system where hard work = reward. That is not the case while T2 Lottery and the T2 BPO exclusivity still exists.
Please, unless you can put forward a valid argument Kryss, based on facts, stop posting. Everyone else is managing just fine.
--
A voice of crystal clear reason above the hubub of the masses. |
Newton Mara
Tecktonic Industries
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Posted - 2007.02.22 13:05:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Kryss Darkdust
....lots of words....
Let me put it in terms you can understand, as your BPO seems to be clouding your view:
- Grown ups are talking.
- Stop posting.
So far your argument is based on flawed ideas and has no isight as to the effect of the market. I know it's tough for you T2 BPO holders to understand but the game is not about you. Newbies want a system where hard work = reward. That is not the case while T2 Lottery and the T2 BPO exclusivity still exists.
Please, unless you can put forward a valid argument Kryss, based on facts, stop posting. Everyone else is managing just fine.
--
A voice of crystal clear reason above the hubub of the masses. |
Wild Rho
Amarr
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2007.02.22 13:10:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Wild Rho on 22/02/2007 13:07:56
I wouldn't mind seeing t2 bpos being turned into bpcs.
T2 production would then be handled by people who are genuinely serious about it enough to make the effort to invent a bpc and then take it further into production.
It would also open more niches with people not only producing and supplying components but also creating t2 bpcs for the market.
On top of that there would no longer be any "I win" bpos that make a vast fortune for compartively little effort.
Oh and yes I do own a couple of t2 bpos myself.
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Wild Rho
Amarr
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2007.02.22 13:10:00 -
[68]
Edited by: Wild Rho on 22/02/2007 13:07:56
I wouldn't mind seeing t2 bpos being turned into bpcs.
T2 production would then be handled by people who are genuinely serious about it enough to make the effort to invent a bpc and then take it further into production.
It would also open more niches with people not only producing and supplying components but also creating t2 bpcs for the market.
On top of that there would no longer be any "I win" bpos that make a vast fortune for compartively little effort.
Oh and yes I do own a couple of t2 bpos myself.
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Newton Mara
Tecktonic Industries
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Posted - 2007.02.22 13:19:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Newton Mara on 22/02/2007 13:17:07
Originally by: Wild Rho
Edited by: Wild Rho on 22/02/2007 13:07:56
I wouldn't mind seeing t2 bpos being turned into bpcs.
T2 production would then be handled by people who are genuinely serious about it enough to make the effort to invent a bpc and then take it further into production.
It would also open more niches with people not only producing and supplying components but also creating t2 bpcs for the market.
Good point. I think it'll also boost the free-market dynamic because the in-demand items like 425IIs will become a hot item to make and the price/availability will level out to a much more approachable value.
edit: although I've heard a good suggestion that invention be saved for the future Tech3 goods and just seed T2 BPOs on the market or make them available for purchase from R&D agents with RPs (much more like LPs). Either way, T2 BPO exclusivity needs to go.
--
A voice of crystal clear reason above the hubub of the masses. |
Newton Mara
Tecktonic Industries
|
Posted - 2007.02.22 13:19:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Newton Mara on 22/02/2007 13:17:07
Originally by: Wild Rho
Edited by: Wild Rho on 22/02/2007 13:07:56
I wouldn't mind seeing t2 bpos being turned into bpcs.
T2 production would then be handled by people who are genuinely serious about it enough to make the effort to invent a bpc and then take it further into production.
It would also open more niches with people not only producing and supplying components but also creating t2 bpcs for the market.
Good point. I think it'll also boost the free-market dynamic because the in-demand items like 425IIs will become a hot item to make and the price/availability will level out to a much more approachable value.
edit: although I've heard a good suggestion that invention be saved for the future Tech3 goods and just seed T2 BPOs on the market or make them available for purchase from R&D agents with RPs (much more like LPs). Either way, T2 BPO exclusivity needs to go.
--
A voice of crystal clear reason above the hubub of the masses. |
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Kryss Darkdust
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Posted - 2007.02.22 13:22:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Newton Mara
Originally by: Kryss Darkdust
....lots of words....
Let me put it in terms you can understand, as your BPO seems to be clouding your view:
- Grown ups are talking.
- Stop posting.
So far your argument is based on flawed ideas and has no isight as to the effect of the market. I know it's tough for you T2 BPO holders to understand but the game is not about you. Newbies want a system where hard work = reward. That is not the case while T2 Lottery and the T2 BPO exclusivity still exists.
Please, unless you can put forward a valid argument Kryss, based on facts, stop posting. Everyone else is managing just fine.
Ok Newbie. Get it in your head. You, being a complete noob, are trying to argue that we should eliminate BPO's so that its easier for you to get them? This is your argument?
Really make an effort to try and not take this personaly, as obviously you are very sensitive. You really need to play the game for a while and at least try to work for your rewards for a bit, before you claim that its unbalanced and impossible. The T2 BPO Lottery has been around for a long ... long time now and people have already worked very hard to get access to those BPOs and spend Billions of ISK on them. Now your suggesting that we eliminate all that hard work with a patch so that its "balanced" for newbies like you? How exactly is it balanced to eliminate years of commitment to a game to make the game easier?
Here are some facts for you.
1. T2 BPO's are supposed to be hard to gain access to, else their would be nothing special about them.
2. T2 prices are supposed to be insane, so that not everyone has T2 equipment
3. Invention is not supposed to give you a chance to compete in the T2 market, its only supposed to give you an alternative route to T2 items.
Here are some other facts. Most of the major alliances in the game, like Bob have spent Trillions of ISK and months of effort to build their empires through massive cooperative plays between hundreds of players. Their backbone is the economic strength which lays mostly in T2 sales. If you eliminate that, these player empires would crumble.
I know to you that sounds like heaven, I'm sure you think it would balanced if we destoryed all that hard work by other players too right?
Here is the thing. Walk a mile in their shoes and then post. Coming on this forum and posting with a couple of weeks under your belt in the game is just... lame.
Are you are gamer?
www.playhardliveeasy.blogspot.com |
Kryss Darkdust
|
Posted - 2007.02.22 13:22:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Newton Mara
Originally by: Kryss Darkdust
....lots of words....
Let me put it in terms you can understand, as your BPO seems to be clouding your view:
- Grown ups are talking.
- Stop posting.
So far your argument is based on flawed ideas and has no isight as to the effect of the market. I know it's tough for you T2 BPO holders to understand but the game is not about you. Newbies want a system where hard work = reward. That is not the case while T2 Lottery and the T2 BPO exclusivity still exists.
Please, unless you can put forward a valid argument Kryss, based on facts, stop posting. Everyone else is managing just fine.
Ok Newbie. Get it in your head. You, being a complete noob, are trying to argue that we should eliminate BPO's so that its easier for you to get them? This is your argument?
Really make an effort to try and not take this personaly, as obviously you are very sensitive. You really need to play the game for a while and at least try to work for your rewards for a bit, before you claim that its unbalanced and impossible. The T2 BPO Lottery has been around for a long ... long time now and people have already worked very hard to get access to those BPOs and spend Billions of ISK on them. Now your suggesting that we eliminate all that hard work with a patch so that its "balanced" for newbies like you? How exactly is it balanced to eliminate years of commitment to a game to make the game easier?
Here are some facts for you.
1. T2 BPO's are supposed to be hard to gain access to, else their would be nothing special about them.
2. T2 prices are supposed to be insane, so that not everyone has T2 equipment
3. Invention is not supposed to give you a chance to compete in the T2 market, its only supposed to give you an alternative route to T2 items.
Here are some other facts. Most of the major alliances in the game, like Bob have spent Trillions of ISK and months of effort to build their empires through massive cooperative plays between hundreds of players. Their backbone is the economic strength which lays mostly in T2 sales. If you eliminate that, these player empires would crumble.
I know to you that sounds like heaven, I'm sure you think it would balanced if we destoryed all that hard work by other players too right?
Here is the thing. Walk a mile in their shoes and then post. Coming on this forum and posting with a couple of weeks under your belt in the game is just... lame.
Are you are gamer?
www.playhardliveeasy.blogspot.com |
Kryss Darkdust
|
Posted - 2007.02.22 13:26:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Wild Rho
Edited by: Wild Rho on 22/02/2007 13:07:56
I wouldn't mind seeing t2 bpos being turned into bpcs.
T2 production would then be handled by people who are genuinely serious about it enough to make the effort to invent a bpc and then take it further into production.
It would also open more niches with people not only producing and supplying components but also creating t2 bpcs for the market.
On top of that there would no longer be any "I win" bpos that make a vast fortune for compartively little effort.
Oh and yes I do own a couple of t2 bpos myself.
I spent a year of running missions to gain access to level 4 agents, then building up RP to finaly get a single T2 BPO. I wouldn't call that a "I win" button to make a vast fortune for comparitvely little effort. I've effectivly played this game for a year to get that BPO.
Are you are gamer?
www.playhardliveeasy.blogspot.com |
Kryss Darkdust
|
Posted - 2007.02.22 13:26:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Wild Rho
Edited by: Wild Rho on 22/02/2007 13:07:56
I wouldn't mind seeing t2 bpos being turned into bpcs.
T2 production would then be handled by people who are genuinely serious about it enough to make the effort to invent a bpc and then take it further into production.
It would also open more niches with people not only producing and supplying components but also creating t2 bpcs for the market.
On top of that there would no longer be any "I win" bpos that make a vast fortune for compartively little effort.
Oh and yes I do own a couple of t2 bpos myself.
I spent a year of running missions to gain access to level 4 agents, then building up RP to finaly get a single T2 BPO. I wouldn't call that a "I win" button to make a vast fortune for comparitvely little effort. I've effectivly played this game for a year to get that BPO.
Are you are gamer?
www.playhardliveeasy.blogspot.com |
Barbarellas Daughter
|
Posted - 2007.02.22 13:38:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Topaz Skydiver
Edited by: Topaz Skydiver on 22/02/2007 09:10:12
Edited by: Topaz Skydiver on 22/02/2007 09:02:06
Originally by: James Duar
Oh snap! You mean in fact, that if said BPO turned into a BPC, in terms of profit per month you would BARELY NOTICE?
Some people have bought BPOs for several billions, like the 1400mm artillery BPO that went for 27 bil last week or so or a medium scout drone BPO that went for 15 or 17 bil ?
Think they wouldn't be very happy, if the got a limited run BPC now. There are BPOs that went for 90bil or more. Don't know, what's the most expensive one, I don't read the sales forum often.
CCP can buy the BPO from me, if they want. 5 bil for the BPO + 5 billion for the pain to give it away. lol.
I bought a Expanded Cargohold I BPO for 150m just the day they had turned them into T2. So my purchase was worthless. I dont think they care about some billions either.
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Barbarellas Daughter
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Posted - 2007.02.22 13:38:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Topaz Skydiver
Edited by: Topaz Skydiver on 22/02/2007 09:10:12
Edited by: Topaz Skydiver on 22/02/2007 09:02:06
Originally by: James Duar
Oh snap! You mean in fact, that if said BPO turned into a BPC, in terms of profit per month you would BARELY NOTICE?
Some people have bought BPOs for several billions, like the 1400mm artillery BPO that went for 27 bil last week or so or a medium scout drone BPO that went for 15 or 17 bil ?
Think they wouldn't be very happy, if the got a limited run BPC now. There are BPOs that went for 90bil or more. Don't know, what's the most expensive one, I don't read the sales forum often.
CCP can buy the BPO from me, if they want. 5 bil for the BPO + 5 billion for the pain to give it away. lol.
I bought a Expanded Cargohold I BPO for 150m just the day they had turned them into T2. So my purchase was worthless. I dont think they care about some billions either.
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Dimitri Chandler
Gallente
Dark Knights of Deneb
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.02.22 13:42:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Dimitri Chandler on 22/02/2007 13:38:26
Originally by: Newton Mara
According to one of the latest blogs, nope. Instead, some hazy statements about balancing invention.
But if the T2 market is really going to be balanced, the T2 BPOs need to go. Not just the lottery.
The T2 BPOs that still exist should be converted into BPCs, then everything becomes even. The market will become unstable in the short term, but longer term will even out and see T2 prices reflect their production cost as well, rather than just their availability.
Okay, commence with T2 BPO owners complaining this is a bad idea and lots of sketchy ideas about how this idea would ruin the market. Ok go!
Ok here's a scenario.
Tomorrow, you win 3 T2 BPO's in the lottery, randomly, worth in excess of 10bn.
The day after, you sell these for X isk and add the proceeds to the, say, 25bn you have in your wallet, and buy a better T2 BPO worth, say, 35bn isk.
The next day, it is announced that the devs have listened to your suggestion and will soon convert all T2 BPOs to BPC's.
Within 3 days your 25bn investment goes up in smoke.
Happy now?
Fluffled -Suvetar
"There is nothing as disconcerting as being bear-hugged by a giant Icelandic man in a kilt." |
Wild Rho
Amarr
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
|
Posted - 2007.02.22 13:42:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Kryss Darkdust
I spent a year of running missions to gain access to level 4 agents, then building up RP to finaly get a single T2 BPO. I wouldn't call that a "I win" button to make a vast fortune for comparitvely little effort. I've effectivly played this game for a year to get that BPO.
If it took you a year to get level 4 agents then you've been doing somthing seriously wrong.
As for the rp once you start earning it you simply sit back and let it roll in, the rest is down to chance and not effort (I've been there and done it myself).
As for the "I win" bpo comment I was referring more to things such as the hulk bpos, some hac bpos and similar that mean once you've got them you generally never have to worry about making isk any other way again barring some major changes in the game.
Even then the small and "low value" bpos will still fetch a small fortune of anything from 500mil to several billion isk - easily worth the time doing some missions and then just letting the rps roll in.
|
Dimitri Chandler
Gallente
Dark Knights of Deneb
Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
|
Posted - 2007.02.22 13:42:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Dimitri Chandler on 22/02/2007 13:38:26
Originally by: Newton Mara
According to one of the latest blogs, nope. Instead, some hazy statements about balancing invention.
But if the T2 market is really going to be balanced, the T2 BPOs need to go. Not just the lottery.
The T2 BPOs that still exist should be converted into BPCs, then everything becomes even. The market will become unstable in the short term, but longer term will even out and see T2 prices reflect their production cost as well, rather than just their availability.
Okay, commence with T2 BPO owners complaining this is a bad idea and lots of sketchy ideas about how this idea would ruin the market. Ok go!
Ok here's a scenario.
Tomorrow, you win 3 T2 BPO's in the lottery, randomly, worth in excess of 10bn.
The day after, you sell these for X isk and add the proceeds to the, say, 25bn you have in your wallet, and buy a better T2 BPO worth, say, 35bn isk.
The next day, it is announced that the devs have listened to your suggestion and will soon convert all T2 BPOs to BPC's.
Within 3 days your 25bn investment goes up in smoke.
Happy now?
Fluffled -Suvetar
"There is nothing as disconcerting as being bear-hugged by a giant Icelandic man in a kilt." |
Wild Rho
Amarr
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
|
Posted - 2007.02.22 13:42:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Kryss Darkdust
I spent a year of running missions to gain access to level 4 agents, then building up RP to finaly get a single T2 BPO. I wouldn't call that a "I win" button to make a vast fortune for comparitvely little effort. I've effectivly played this game for a year to get that BPO.
If it took you a year to get level 4 agents then you've been doing somthing seriously wrong.
As for the rp once you start earning it you simply sit back and let it roll in, the rest is down to chance and not effort (I've been there and done it myself).
As for the "I win" bpo comment I was referring more to things such as the hulk bpos, some hac bpos and similar that mean once you've got them you generally never have to worry about making isk any other way again barring some major changes in the game.
Even then the small and "low value" bpos will still fetch a small fortune of anything from 500mil to several billion isk - easily worth the time doing some missions and then just letting the rps roll in.
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Kryss Darkdust
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Posted - 2007.02.22 13:51:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Wild Rho
Originally by: Kryss Darkdust
I spent a year of running missions to gain access to level 4 agents, then building up RP to finaly get a single T2 BPO. I wouldn't call that a "I win" button to make a vast fortune for comparitvely little effort. I've effectivly played this game for a year to get that BPO.
If it took you a year to get level 4 agents then you've been doing somthing seriously wrong.
As for the rp once you start earning it you simply sit back and let it roll in, the rest is down to chance and not effort (I've been there and done it myself).
As for the "I win" bpo comment I was referring more to things such as the hulk bpos, some hac bpos and similar that mean once you've got them you generally never have to worry about making isk any other way again barring some major changes in the game.
Even then the small and "low value" bpos will still fetch a small fortune of anything from 500mil to several billion isk - easily worth the time doing some missions and then just letting the rps roll in.
It didn't take me a year to get a level 4 agent, combined from the day I started an effort to get a T2 BPO to the day I actually got one it was a year, but thats beside the point.
The point here is and its one the OP has not addressed and I think as far as this discussion its the only thing worth discussing is this.
How can you take away from people something they have earned through gameplay, so that people who haven't done jack **** in the game have an easier time attaining the same success? How is that balance? How is that justified?
I'm not crazy about the lottery system and certainly I wouldn't have a problem getting rid of it. But the T2 BPO's that are out there, need to stay out there. The people that have them, earned them. It wasn't some easy I win button. Ya one or two out of the hundred thousand or so players got lucky, but that doesn't justify eliminating the world of the thousands that earned their BPO's in various ways.
I can understand why the OP would have no problem with it, after all he stands to loose NOTHING at all, but I wonder how he would feel if CCP came down and said.. You know we made a mistake, we gave too many skillpoints to the newbies this year, so we are going to take them back and they took back the free 1 million Skill Points from you. Hell you haven't even earned them, you just got them for free and I bet you would still throw a hissy fit.
The point here is that the OP is speaking from a very weak position and really has no place even making this argument, but its a mute point because none of the suggestions here will ever happen anyway.
Are you are gamer?
www.playhardliveeasy.blogspot.com |
Kryss Darkdust
|
Posted - 2007.02.22 13:51:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Wild Rho
Originally by: Kryss Darkdust
I spent a year of running missions to gain access to level 4 agents, then building up RP to finaly get a single T2 BPO. I wouldn't call that a "I win" button to make a vast fortune for comparitvely little effort. I've effectivly played this game for a year to get that BPO.
If it took you a year to get level 4 agents then you've been doing somthing seriously wrong.
As for the rp once you start earning it you simply sit back and let it roll in, the rest is down to chance and not effort (I've been there and done it myself).
As for the "I win" bpo comment I was referring more to things such as the hulk bpos, some hac bpos and similar that mean once you've got them you generally never have to worry about making isk any other way again barring some major changes in the game.
Even then the small and "low value" bpos will still fetch a small fortune of anything from 500mil to several billion isk - easily worth the time doing some missions and then just letting the rps roll in.
It didn't take me a year to get a level 4 agent, combined from the day I started an effort to get a T2 BPO to the day I actually got one it was a year, but thats beside the point.
The point here is and its one the OP has not addressed and I think as far as this discussion its the only thing worth discussing is this.
How can you take away from people something they have earned through gameplay, so that people who haven't done jack **** in the game have an easier time attaining the same success? How is that balance? How is that justified?
I'm not crazy about the lottery system and certainly I wouldn't have a problem getting rid of it. But the T2 BPO's that are out there, need to stay out there. The people that have them, earned them. It wasn't some easy I win button. Ya one or two out of the hundred thousand or so players got lucky, but that doesn't justify eliminating the world of the thousands that earned their BPO's in various ways.
I can understand why the OP would have no problem with it, after all he stands to loose NOTHING at all, but I wonder how he would feel if CCP came down and said.. You know we made a mistake, we gave too many skillpoints to the newbies this year, so we are going to take them back and they took back the free 1 million Skill Points from you. Hell you haven't even earned them, you just got them for free and I bet you would still throw a hissy fit.
The point here is that the OP is speaking from a very weak position and really has no place even making this argument, but its a mute point because none of the suggestions here will ever happen anyway.
Are you are gamer?
www.playhardliveeasy.blogspot.com |
Caia
|
Posted - 2007.02.22 14:03:00 -
[83]
I don't own a T2 BPO. Probably never will, to be perfectly honest.
CCP should NOT get rid of T2 BPOs, though. To take something away from players like that would just be wrong on so so SO many levels. Yes, the lottery system wasn't exactly the best way to do it. Lotteries were held waaaay too far apart. Good idea, but CCP screwed it up pretty badly.
Now, in theory, Invention should allow anyone to get into the market. As of right now, its not working very well. Datacores are way to hard to get ahold of and therefore are pretty expensive. And 350M for an interface? C'mon, that's silly. I realize it doesn't go away when used but, you only have a chance to get a T2 BPC, and between datacores and T1 components, it really just isn't worth while.
Now, hopefully CCP will balance things so that players can be competitive with T2 BPO holders. Competition is good, after all.
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Caia
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Posted - 2007.02.22 14:03:00 -
[84]
I don't own a T2 BPO. Probably never will, to be perfectly honest.
CCP should NOT get rid of T2 BPOs, though. To take something away from players like that would just be wrong on so so SO many levels. Yes, the lottery system wasn't exactly the best way to do it. Lotteries were held waaaay too far apart. Good idea, but CCP screwed it up pretty badly.
Now, in theory, Invention should allow anyone to get into the market. As of right now, its not working very well. Datacores are way to hard to get ahold of and therefore are pretty expensive. And 350M for an interface? C'mon, that's silly. I realize it doesn't go away when used but, you only have a chance to get a T2 BPC, and between datacores and T1 components, it really just isn't worth while.
Now, hopefully CCP will balance things so that players can be competitive with T2 BPO holders. Competition is good, after all.
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Jason Kildaro
Minmatar
Red Dwarf Mining Corps
5th Column
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Posted - 2007.02.22 14:04:00 -
[85]
I am not a T2 BPO owner but I would like to see T2 stay the way it is. Actually I would like to see it even more rare. I know some say that the BPO owners are making to much money and it is not fair. And it isn't but look at the flip side of the coin.
1. If the suggestion that BPO's get turned into BPC's, then manufacturers would make prices even higher. They will ensure they maximize the profit. All this will do is ensure more people get to make this incredible amount of money. This will still make T2 rare but more players get rich. Wehn all this ISK is rolling around inflation will still be present.
2. If the suggestion that T2 become more proliferated then you will kill the T1 market. One thing I like about this game is I don't have to grind for the "uber plus 10 sword of truth". But if T2 becomes cheaper it will make it a necessary item in the game that you must get to compete.
3. The T2 BPO system the way it is creates powerful corporations, true, but I think it also makes the powerplay part of the game the way it is. It forces player conflict and drives many of the politics in the game. It makes 0.0 much more interesting. Without T2 the way it is everyone becomes the same and there may no longer be a need for player conflict. It will become yet another "grind till you get rich and then get bored"
I like the power cartels that form from this, it makes it interesting to follow what players do. It makes the market more interesting. I don't want sameness, I don't want everyone to be alike. I like it to be a little unfair. I like the "little guy against big brother" aspects of the game. I like seeing items be rare. Will some of these suggestions level the playing field? Yes, but is that what we want?
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Jason Kildaro
Minmatar
Red Dwarf Mining Corps
5th Column
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Posted - 2007.02.22 14:04:00 -
[86]
I am not a T2 BPO owner but I would like to see T2 stay the way it is. Actually I would like to see it even more rare. I know some say that the BPO owners are making to much money and it is not fair. And it isn't but look at the flip side of the coin.
1. If the suggestion that BPO's get turned into BPC's, then manufacturers would make prices even higher. They will ensure they maximize the profit. All this will do is ensure more people get to make this incredible amount of money. This will still make T2 rare but more players get rich. Wehn all this ISK is rolling around inflation will still be present.
2. If the suggestion that T2 become more proliferated then you will kill the T1 market. One thing I like about this game is I don't have to grind for the "uber plus 10 sword of truth". But if T2 becomes cheaper it will make it a necessary item in the game that you must get to compete.
3. The T2 BPO system the way it is creates powerful corporations, true, but I think it also makes the powerplay part of the game the way it is. It forces player conflict and drives many of the politics in the game. It makes 0.0 much more interesting. Without T2 the way it is everyone becomes the same and there may no longer be a need for player conflict. It will become yet another "grind till you get rich and then get bored"
I like the power cartels that form from this, it makes it interesting to follow what players do. It makes the market more interesting. I don't want sameness, I don't want everyone to be alike. I like it to be a little unfair. I like the "little guy against big brother" aspects of the game. I like seeing items be rare. Will some of these suggestions level the playing field? Yes, but is that what we want?
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Maximillian Power
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Posted - 2007.02.22 14:14:00 -
[87]
My only issue with T2/Tech II or whatever you want to call it is the laziness of the naming convention tbh.
Oh we need a better version of this - lets call it Tech II.
Other than that anyone who complains really should consider not playing the game. Not because I want you to stfu or hate whiners or anything like that - just that you obviously don't really like the game and so probably shouldn't play.
You know what:
T2 is better - it costs more - it hurts more when you lose it. it's all good :)
Original distribution may not have been perfect but considering cap recharger II's seem to have pretty much halved in price (From my observation - could be wrong) invention is doing something good. Let it play out a little longer and see what happens.
One idea that I really liked in this thread and not just for T2 bpo's but for all bpo's was the idea of only being able to use them in POS and having them drop- makes for a viable war mechanic. Maybe not exactly that idea - but something like being able to defeat a person or corp and clear out the in station hangars when you win  
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Maximillian Power
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Posted - 2007.02.22 14:14:00 -
[88]
My only issue with T2/Tech II or whatever you want to call it is the laziness of the naming convention tbh.
Oh we need a better version of this - lets call it Tech II.
Other than that anyone who complains really should consider not playing the game. Not because I want you to stfu or hate whiners or anything like that - just that you obviously don't really like the game and so probably shouldn't play.
You know what:
T2 is better - it costs more - it hurts more when you lose it. it's all good :)
Original distribution may not have been perfect but considering cap recharger II's seem to have pretty much halved in price (From my observation - could be wrong) invention is doing something good. Let it play out a little longer and see what happens.
One idea that I really liked in this thread and not just for T2 bpo's but for all bpo's was the idea of only being able to use them in POS and having them drop- makes for a viable war mechanic. Maybe not exactly that idea - but something like being able to defeat a person or corp and clear out the in station hangars when you win
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Wild Rho
Amarr
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
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Posted - 2007.02.22 14:15:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Kryss Darkdust
How can you take away from people something they have earned through gameplay, so that people who haven't done jack **** in the game have an easier time attaining the same success? How is that balance? How is that justified?
You don't get tech 2 bpcs via invention by doing jack *bleep*. It has a large investment cost in some of the components as well as a rp cost or isk cost in getting items such as datacores.
Also consider that invention is chance based and it is quite possible for an invention job to give out nothing despite the initial investment.
All this before you even get to build a t2 item.
The effort needed to produce through the invention path is alot higher (and also continuous) than running some missions for a while and then letting the research points build up with no further effort or interaction from you.
Heck missions may not even be counted as "effort" for some people as missions are what they enjoy doing with the access to research agents being a bonus of gaining high standings.
Originally by: Kryss Darkdust
I'm not crazy about the lottery system and certainly I wouldn't have a problem getting rid of it. But the T2 BPO's that are out there, need to stay out there. The people that have them, earned them. It wasn't some easy I win button. Ya one or two out of the hundred thousand or so players got lucky, but that doesn't justify eliminating the world of the thousands that earned their BPO's in various ways.
I wouldn't equate getting lucky in a lottery with earning.
For those that paid alot of isk to get them I'll certainly concede the point.
Originally by: Kryss Darkdust
I can understand why the OP would have no problem with it, after all he stands to loose NOTHING at all, but I wonder how he would feel if CCP came down and said.. You know we made a mistake, we gave too many skillpoints to the newbies this year, so we are going to take them back and they took back the free 1 million Skill Points from you. Hell you haven't even earned them, you just got them for free and I bet you would still throw a hissy fit.
I have no idea what this example has to do with the current situation.
I have a couple of billion isk worth of t2 bpos that I'd stand to lose from them being changed but I still think it's a worthwhile idea.
On the other hand I'd be going nuts if someone wanted to take 800k sps from me a year later without a damn good reason.
Originally by: Kryss Darkdust
The point here is that the OP is speaking from a very weak position and really has no place even making this argument, but its a mute point because none of the suggestions here will ever happen anyway.
And what about those who do have somthing to lose but still think it's a worthwhile idea?
Your point of view is no different from his except that it's coming from the opposite direction. You have somthing to lose from this idea so you oppose it which is fair enough.
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Wild Rho
Amarr
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams
|
Posted - 2007.02.22 14:15:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Kryss Darkdust
How can you take away from people something they have earned through gameplay, so that people who haven't done jack **** in the game have an easier time attaining the same success? How is that balance? How is that justified?
You don't get tech 2 bpcs via invention by doing jack *bleep*. It has a large investment cost in some of the components as well as a rp cost or isk cost in getting items such as datacores.
Also consider that invention is chance based and it is quite possible for an invention job to give out nothing despite the initial investment.
All this before you even get to build a t2 item.
The effort needed to produce through the invention path is alot higher (and also continuous) than running some missions for a while and then letting the research points build up with no further effort or interaction from you.
Heck missions may not even be counted as "effort" for some people as missions are what they enjoy doing with the access to research agents being a bonus of gaining high standings.
Originally by: Kryss Darkdust
I'm not crazy about the lottery system and certainly I wouldn't have a problem getting rid of it. But the T2 BPO's that are out there, need to stay out there. The people that have them, earned them. It wasn't some easy I win button. Ya one or two out of the hundred thousand or so players got lucky, but that doesn't justify eliminating the world of the thousands that earned their BPO's in various ways.
I wouldn't equate getting lucky in a lottery with earning.
For those that paid alot of isk to get them I'll certainly concede the point.
Originally by: Kryss Darkdust
I can understand why the OP would have no problem with it, after all he stands to loose NOTHING at all, but I wonder how he would feel if CCP came down and said.. You know we made a mistake, we gave too many skillpoints to the newbies this year, so we are going to take them back and they took back the free 1 million Skill Points from you. Hell you haven't even earned them, you just got them for free and I bet you would still throw a hissy fit.
I have no idea what this example has to do with the current situation.
I have a couple of billion isk worth of t2 bpos that I'd stand to lose from them being changed but I still think it's a worthwhile idea.
On the other hand I'd be going nuts if someone wanted to take 800k sps from me a year later without a damn good reason.
Originally by: Kryss Darkdust
The point here is that the OP is speaking from a very weak position and really has no place even making this argument, but its a mute point because none of the suggestions here will ever happen anyway.
And what about those who do have somthing to lose but still think it's a worthwhile idea?
Your point of view is no different from his except that it's coming from the opposite direction. You have somthing to lose from this idea so you oppose it which is fair enough.
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