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Imustbecomfused
Negative Density
65
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Posted - 2016.05.05 02:26:23 -
[1] - Quote
So I was wondering the other hour ago... I been using a POS to set up in systems that are unoccupied mostly, for shelter and protection and access to the resources in that system. I like the idea that citadels are bigger and even better than POSes, but... they take a while to online... they are huge, they are visible easily, they are expensive (relatively speaking), and they will attract a lot of attention.
So, What to those that do not want such attention? What will be available to us that farm systems solo or in small gangs, that still need defense, and offensive measures? Myself, I love going out to scan and roll for empty wh systems full of anomalies! and Scanning around to see if there is a POS up. If not, don't mind if I make myself at home. Ill suck all that up in a day or a weeks time... Harvest that gas, mine that ore. Blitz those sites! .... Then pack up and leave to the next. Using smaller ships a mobile base... Orca, Carrier... even Deepspace Transports. All I need, with room for a weeks salvage.
With this in mind, there must be others too. that rely on the use of the POS, its easy to setup, and to carry around, for temporary means ofc, even considering all the pain in the ass with the guns and fuel and stront and access passwords for alts... etc. I am wondering CCP, will you make a replacement for the standard POS for us nomads to use... It doenst have to be much but it should deploy no longer than a regular pos, and it should require some kind of input fuel, ... but also come down quick and easy, and pack up tight in my transport... :)
If not, Dropping a citadel to run sites is crazy... that will be the first thing people come for when seen in system. I like that POSes hide among the moons, and are hard to find, for those not savvy with scanners and all.... :) Like, They areally do function in many ways, for several play styles, What is there to replace poses with such intentions in mind? |
Crystalline Entity
Outdated Host Productions Darwinism.
39
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Posted - 2016.05.05 03:04:35 -
[2] - Quote
Euron kills Balon in season 6 |
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
332
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Posted - 2016.05.05 03:20:35 -
[3] - Quote
Citadels are only the first of several structures and they are specifically designed as a stable and defendable home for stuff.
Mining, manufacture, research, etc are all planned to be supported by other structures.
So I hope in planning ahead, CCP do create something for the space gypsy; because I think there are a lot more nomads out there than get noticed.
+1 OP for the hope that CCP do provide a suitable structure to support a more nomadic life. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
54382
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Posted - 2016.05.05 04:41:11 -
[4] - Quote
Agree with the OP.
Just make sure it fits inside a Blockade Runner.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
360
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Posted - 2016.05.05 07:00:11 -
[5] - Quote
Agreed op.
But, sadly, it appears CCP have closed their collective eyes and ears to the fact that there is a play style outside of the power blocs/alliance/super corp.
I'm hoping that with the other platforms coming in Autumn they turn out similar to a pos. Easy up, easy down, mobile etc.
Anything else will make them as attractive as a Citadel is for a one man/small corp. |
Kyra Lee
Ixian Machines TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
90
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Posted - 2016.05.05 09:10:52 -
[6] - Quote
Drago Shouna wrote:Agreed op.
But, sadly, it appears CCP have closed their collective eyes and ears to the fact that there is a play style outside of the power blocs/alliance/super corp.
I'm hoping that with the other platforms coming in Autumn they turn out similar to a pos. Easy up, easy down, mobile etc.
Anything else will make them as attractive as a Citadel is for a one man/small corp.
I don't think that they have forgotten about you types. I think the main problem is what can everyone that plays this game do with the tools they introduce.
Imagine you have something that has a shield around it like a pos, can fit in a blockade runner, and is easily deployable. Can you see any place in nullsec that something like that would be used? That would be a massive boost to safety for any attacking enemy. You would also be able to carry one in any capital ship now since they all have a fleet hanger. Every carrier and dread could have their own little bubble of safety. What if a mission flipper pokes the wrong bear and now has hostiles in system trying to kill him? He can just drop his safety bubble and ride out his timer, or maybe he had a safety bubble predropped he can just hide away in. Something that may be great for one part of space could greatly imbalance other parts.
Currently CCP wants people to have a connection to the items they deploy in space. They want you to put your assets at risk for the reward you are collecting. Running and hiding into a pos shield when something pops up on dscan is not putting your assets at risk. Having a pos tower that is going to be under a reinforcement timer for at least a day is not fun or engaging to the people hunting you.
They have introduced the mobile depot, mobile scan inhibitor, and possibly some other devices I can't remember to assist in the gypsy lifestyle. I am not saying your play style is wrong or anything, but I don't think it is the direction CCP wants its players to go. I think CCP feels parts of the game are too safe at the moment and are looking to change that.
KL |
Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
360
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Posted - 2016.05.05 09:53:01 -
[7] - Quote
Kyra Lee wrote:Drago Shouna wrote:Agreed op.
But, sadly, it appears CCP have closed their collective eyes and ears to the fact that there is a play style outside of the power blocs/alliance/super corp.
I'm hoping that with the other platforms coming in Autumn they turn out similar to a pos. Easy up, easy down, mobile etc.
Anything else will make them as attractive as a Citadel is for a one man/small corp. I don't think that they have forgotten about you types. I think the main problem is what can everyone that plays this game do with the tools they introduce. Imagine you have something that has a shield around it like a pos, can fit in a blockade runner, and is easily deployable. Can you see any place in nullsec that something like that would be used? That would be a massive boost to safety for any attacking enemy. You would also be able to carry one in any capital ship now since they all have a fleet hanger. Every carrier and dread could have their own little bubble of safety. What if a mission flipper pokes the wrong bear and now has hostiles in system trying to kill him? He can just drop his safety bubble and ride out his timer, or maybe he had a safety bubble predropped he can just hide away in. Something that may be great for one part of space could greatly imbalance other parts. Currently CCP wants people to have a connection to the items they deploy in space. They want you to put your assets at risk for the reward you are collecting. Running and hiding into a pos shield when something pops up on dscan is not putting your assets at risk. Having a pos tower that is going to be under a reinforcement timer for at least a day is not fun or engaging to the people hunting you. They have introduced the mobile depot, mobile scan inhibitor, and possibly some other devices I can't remember to assist in the gypsy lifestyle. I am not saying your play style is wrong or anything, but I don't think it is the direction CCP wants its players to go. I think CCP feels parts of the game are too safe at the moment and are looking to change that. KL
You can carry a small or medium pos in a blockade runner now.
Do you see many being used as a staging post anywhere in null? Honestly, how many players do you see using a pos how you describe it?
Like a lot of others, I don't care if it ain't fun or engaging for others hunting me.
I see this is going to be another thread where if we ain't willing to become a static target to provide "content" we must be playing wrong
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
7076
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Posted - 2016.05.05 10:31:57 -
[8] - Quote
Removed an off topic post.
ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Vice Admiral
Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Interstellar Services Department
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
54384
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Posted - 2016.05.05 11:10:43 -
[9] - Quote
Kyra Lee wrote:
Currently CCP wants people to have a connection to the items they deploy in space. They want you to put your assets at risk for the reward you are collecting. Running and hiding into a pos shield when something pops up on dscan is not putting your assets at risk. Having a pos tower that is going to be under a reinforcement timer for at least a day is not fun or engaging to the people hunting you.
They have introduced the mobile depot, mobile scan inhibitor, and possibly some other devices I can't remember to assist in the gypsy lifestyle. I am not saying your play style is wrong or anything, but I don't think it is the direction CCP wants its players to go. I think CCP feels parts of the game are too safe at the moment and are looking to change that.
KL
When I started playing this game 8 years ago, CCP always said they would never dictate how players should play this game. All they would do is provide the tools and watch what the playerbase did with them.
I'm curious as to when that philosophy changed. Don't suppose you have a link to an Official CCP statement on that? I wouldn't be surprised if it was a CCP Dev who actually voiced their own opinion and wasn't actually speaking for the company. Now if it is true then it's definitely a recent change which might explain the past few game releases.
One thing is for sure, if CCP thinks players in high sec or low sec are going to put all their assets into a destructible structure then CCP has definitely lost touch with the game.
By the way, those little depots are not the same thing as a small POS.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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The Visitor
Black Wormholes of Apocrypha TOGETHER WE STAND
0
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Posted - 2016.05.05 11:19:41 -
[10] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:Citadels are only the first of several structures and they are specifically designed as a stable and defendable home for stuff.
So far they are anything but. See here how vulnerable those structures really are. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=480120&find=unread
Bottom line, a bunch of containers and ships inside a pos field are easier to protect and safer in case the pos is reinforced compared to a citadel. |
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Aaron Raus
Diving club
2
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Posted - 2016.05.05 12:04:29 -
[11] - Quote
Support Small and personal citadel suggestion if you want that dream comes true. |
Marcus Tedric
Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation
69
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Posted - 2016.05.05 13:25:06 -
[12] - Quote
An Orca is the ship you are looking for - it just takes 2...
Don't soil your panties, you guys made a good point, we'll look at the numbers again. - CCP Ytterbium
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Captain Africa
GRIM MARCH
151
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Posted - 2016.05.05 13:48:41 -
[13] - Quote
Have to agree with OP...Love the whole idea about Citadels however I just dont see them as a replacement. Eve without a POS is just not Eve. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3832
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Posted - 2016.05.05 15:40:41 -
[14] - Quote
I agree with the OP. CCP said that the new structures were going to be a replacement for the functionality of POSes. But, they miss on replacing the nomadic lifestyle functionality.
A new structure that really would replace the POS would have to be something you can dock at, refine at, build at do research at, and store stuff. It needs to take just a few hours to put up and take down, and for balance it should be vulnerable during that time. An Orca is not that, a mobile depot is not that, and a medium citadel is to large and clunky (read, slow to put up and take down).
One function I was hoping would come with citadels is the "mobile market". Think of a large citadel, one that supports a market, that you take with you and go from incursion site to incursion site. This is not really viable with the current Citadel due to the one week decommissioning time.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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Ashterothi
Aideron Robotics
397
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Posted - 2016.05.05 16:08:32 -
[15] - Quote
This is exactly what the Mobile Depo was created for. The Mobile depo is the "small" citadel.
Listen to Hydrostatic Podcast for all your Empyrean needs!
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1504
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Posted - 2016.05.05 16:19:48 -
[16] - Quote
I support this idea, as for the mobile Depot it is a bit of a joke, I used 3,900m3 cans whichh I seeded around the system and the ships had to run around with a mobile depot in it, no point putting them up for any length of time, all you were doing is giving the location of your safe spots away, so I would driop, refit then take them down again. The annoyance of not being to put a packaged one in a can still grates with me, stupid stupid stupid...
Ella's Snack bar. The Hisec sandbox is basically no longer a themepark for gankers now that CCP have rebalanced key areas. Well done CCP
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sci0gon
Kaira Innovations Superior Eve Engineering
67
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Posted - 2016.05.05 16:56:04 -
[17] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:I agree with the OP. CCP said that the new structures were going to be a replacement for the functionality of POSes. But, they miss on replacing the nomadic lifestyle functionality.
A new structure that really would replace the POS would have to be something you can dock at, refine at, build at do research at, and store stuff. It needs to take just a few hours to put up and take down, and for balance it should be vulnerable during that time. An Orca is not that, a mobile depot is not that, and a medium citadel is to large and clunky (read, slow to put up and take down).
One function I was hoping would come with citadels is the "mobile market". Think of a large citadel, one that supports a market, that you take with you and go from incursion site to incursion site. This is not really viable with the current Citadel due to the one week decommissioning time.
The new system of deployables are exactly what you are requiring for a new version of the pos. The only difference is that they are broken down into categories, one for safety and refining, one for industry and one for moon mining. The one for safety isnt that great for very small corps or solo players as it requires a fleet to aid in its defense. The industry and moon mining ones are still yet to come but hopefully they'll be worth it.
I personally couldnt understand their thinking behind doing that other than trying to bring a fresh more up to date look to some aspects of the game. Looking at the following dev blog I can only assume that they want people using citadels instead of pos's for defense to remove some aspects of safety that players have had for all these years. https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/back-into-the-structure/ |
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard Wiking Were Wabbits
75
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Posted - 2016.05.05 17:19:36 -
[18] - Quote
Unfortunately, Your style of game play (and mine) is dying.
Once POS are phased out, It will begin sooner than most people think, any Nomadic, Solo and small group play styles will be pushed further down the priority ladder.
From what I can tell by the end of summer processing ore and gas at a POS will either stop or become unprofitable - in the Autumn the same will apply to production. Then you are forced into a different play style.
Solo players and Small group don't have the manpower to utilize the game mechanics of Citadels and hoping that something will be create replace the existing functionality of towers is wishful thinking
It has already been stated by CCP that the medium Citadel is intended to be a replacement for the solo players tower-pos the trouble is as a replacement it sucks!
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Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
212
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Posted - 2016.05.05 17:31:33 -
[19] - Quote
I think there's a lot of negative guessing going on here.
CCP won't be able to off-line the NPC stations (their cited reason for doing all this stuff) until they have effective structures that can fulfill all the player style requirements. I've read commentary to that effect from them as well (but admittedly it's older, although I do think they touched on it in the last CSM summit docs). So I can't say they aren't aware of the issues.
Personally, I think you'll find something akin to either a largish ship that you can attach containers to and maybe even cloak (with a 5 minute recycle timer) to play this role, or a variation of the POS towers which I feel might even survive whatever happens. I'm sure 'customs' stuff is probably doomed to become something else but it is used so I expect it will be changed somehow.
All in all, I think Citadels are just first on the list, you'll see smaller stuff to support smaller corps. They actually are far more numerous than you might think.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
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Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard Wiking Were Wabbits
76
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Posted - 2016.05.05 18:24:10 -
[20] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:I think there's a lot of negative guessing going on here.
CCP won't be able to off-line the NPC stations (their cited reason for doing all this stuff) until they have effective structures that can fulfill all the player style requirements. I've read commentary to that effect from them as well (but admittedly it's older, although I do think they touched on it in the last CSM summit docs). So I can't say they aren't aware of the issues.
Personally, I think you'll find something akin to either a largish ship that you can attach containers to and maybe even cloak (with a 5 minute recycle timer) to play this role, or a variation of the POS towers which I feel might even survive whatever happens. I'm sure 'customs' stuff is probably doomed to become something else but it is used so I expect it will be changed somehow.
All in all, I think Citadels are just first on the list, you'll see smaller stuff to support smaller corps. They actually are far more numerous than you might think.
Hate to burst your bubble.... but the Medium Citadel is the "smaller stuff" to support smaller corps - they mention it once or twice in each getting back to structure Dev blog and the CSM notes links gives a bullet pointed list of what they replace
Though I don't know what happened to their idea (as seen in the csm notes) that Medium Citadels should be deployed in "15 minutes and offer resistance against most kind of assaults including capital ships" - My negative guess is not enough of an ISK sink |
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Tzar Sinak
Mythic Heights
211
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Posted - 2016.05.05 18:33:20 -
[21] - Quote
I lived solo for about 6 months is a C2 with a low sec static. My POS(Citdel) was an Orca. With two accounts I had 5 PI farmers, 1 gas sniffer/miner and 1 site runner. 1 character was always in the Orca.
This setup allowed me to live out of the ship maintenance bay.
It took me some time to figure out the logistics and the skills each character needed. It was not a big skill investment per say but it did take time to pull it all together. After six months I had had enough and pulled everything back together into hisec.
Now when I want to get away I resort to the ghetto base: setting up a deep safe, anchoring secure containers, loading several with supplies and living out of a mobile depot. This is my "camping" with a tent. It can be done in any security level space.
However, like the OP, I would really like a more comfortable "home away from home". Frankly, after making exploration an entry level profession, I think CCP needs to throw us bitter exploration vets a bone.
Hydrostatic Podcast First class listening of all things EVE
Check out the Eve-Prosper show for your market updates!
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John Dreads
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.05.05 19:08:32 -
[22] - Quote
Agree with the OP.
I really don't want to see POS getting replaced by citadels. How else are you going to store a Titan and bridge fleets in? A POS is much cheaper and way more affordable and can be used as a staging point. A citadel is quite expensive, takes forever to online and is a huge target for people.
Sure, citadels are cool. But please, don't have them replace POS. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
17619
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Posted - 2016.05.05 19:25:13 -
[23] - Quote
John Dreads wrote:Agree with the OP.
I really don't want to see POS getting replaced by citadels. How else are you going to store a Titan and bridge fleets in? A POS is much cheaper and way more affordable and can be used as a staging point. A citadel is quite expensive, takes forever to online and is a huge target for people.
Sure, citadels are cool. But please, don't have them replace POS.
They make for good fly traps |
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
212
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Posted - 2016.05.05 19:36:00 -
[24] - Quote
Iowa Banshee wrote:Hate to burst your bubble.... but the Medium Citadel is the "smaller stuff" to support smaller corps - they mention it once or twice in each getting back to structure Dev blog and the CSM notes links gives a bullet pointed list of what they replace
Well, your read of the data available is different than mine. If your point is indeed the case then small corps will fold and the players playing that style will leave and CCP will just have to deal with their choices. They can have their large faction game and that will be that. Maybe that's what they want, but then again, maybe not.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
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Artemis Ellery Sazas
Shock and Awe Inc.
72
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Posted - 2016.05.06 11:03:19 -
[25] - Quote
Totally agree with OP. It's the different playstyles that make EvE great and I too enjoy a nomadic adventure every few weeks. I adventure solo with 1 account, so the Orca examples using multiple alts do not work for me. Something with a ship hanger (25k-50k) and larger storage (50k-75k) would be nice. I don't see why a "big brother" to the mobile depot wouldn't work and should be pretty easy for CCP to create using the mobile depot model. Something like this is needed to fill the huge gap between the mobile depot and the med Citadel. |
The Machiavellian
White Lion Holding Corp
0
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Posted - 2016.05.06 11:07:47 -
[26] - Quote
The Mobile Depot. |
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard Wiking Were Wabbits
79
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Posted - 2016.05.06 14:37:43 -
[27] - Quote
Tzar Sinak wrote:I lived solo for about 6 months is a C2 with a low sec static. My POS(Citdel) was an Orca. With two accounts I had 5 PI farmers, 1 gas sniffer/miner and 1 site runner. 1 character was always in the Orca.
This setup allowed me to live out of the ship maintenance bay.
It took me some time to figure out the logistics and the skills each character needed. It was not a big skill investment per say but it did take time to pull it all together. After six months I had had enough and pulled everything back together into hisec.
Now when I want to get away I resort to the ghetto base: setting up a deep safe, anchoring secure containers, loading several with supplies and living out of a mobile depot. This is my "camping" with a tent. It can be done in any security level space.
However, like the OP, I would really like a more comfortable "home away from home". Frankly, after making exploration an entry level profession, I think CCP needs to throw us bitter exploration vets a bone.
The Orca as a replacement for a POS - are the gas processors going to be mid or low slot modules ?
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Tzar Sinak
Mythic Heights
213
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Posted - 2016.05.06 15:14:54 -
[28] - Quote
The gas harvesters were attached to a ship in the Orca. The Orca never left the safe spot and was equipped with a cloak when not immediately needed. When it was time for the Orca pilot to gather his PI, he switched ships with a character on the other account.
The gas and ore was handled else where.
Hydrostatic Podcast First class listening of all things EVE
Check out the Eve-Prosper show for your market updates!
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Artemis Ellery Sazas
Shock and Awe Inc.
73
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Posted - 2016.05.06 15:30:16 -
[29] - Quote
The Machiavellian wrote:The Mobile Depot.
The Mobile Depot is just too small. The idea of finding a wormhole or quiet null sec system and setting up shop for 3-5 days, cleaning out the sites and then moving on is in serious jeopardy. The small POS was perfect for this. There was no need for any defenses, just a quick anchor, add some fuel and off you go. I use 3 ships for my travels, none very expensive, but they still need a place to be stored. Leaving them floating empty in space while you scan the system or run a Relic site seems a bit absurd. When it's time to move a quick pack up into your hauler and head off to find the next adventure.
Hopefully CCP does not forget about this style of play and actually realize how dangerous and exciting being a nomad can be in EvE. |
Josef Djugashvilis
3396
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Posted - 2016.05.06 16:44:31 -
[30] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Agree with the OP.
Just make sure it fits inside a Blockade Runner.
DMC
I would be very happy if CCP did this ^^^
This is not a signature.
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