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Miktek
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
2
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Posted - 2016.05.05 08:20:11 -
[1] - Quote
I would like to call upon the opinions of players, particularly PVP players with regards self-sufficiency. Be it your own corpGÇÖs or alliances doctrines which may be expensive, or when looking for a new corp and they announce that you must be self-sufficient in your isk making which essentially means no SRP. How do you efficiently make your ISK? I realise that is a question that none will answer in any detail but IGÇÖll throw this post out there on the off chance.
Let say for example you want, or your corp doctrine dictates you have a ship that costs between 300m and 400m to buy and fit. Some people see that as pocket change, but for others it is quite an investment. How do you get to a level where that kind of expenditure is OK to do without thinking that you have to spend hours doing a random PVE task (mining, industry, ratting, exploration) in order to make that money back should the ship explode into a thousand pixels.
I have 2 accounts, with 6 toons and my main source of income is PI, I live in a WH so the planets are pretty good, that nets me between 800 / 900m a month gross, skim a bit off for poco taxes and other costs as well as time and I suppose I have about 750 to 850m per month in my wallet, now I do not PVP that much and if I do it tends to be in cheaper T1 cruisers.
But say I wanted to PVP in a ship costing 350m, if I lose 3 of those in a month (yeah I am bad at pvp) I am running at a loss. I donGÇÖt really rat anymore but when I did in null I was making maybe 50m a site inc salvaging, that would take maybe 20/25 minutes. So approx. 100m an hour, 3.5hours to make the isk to get the ship. It just seems like a lot of time to get the isk to get that level of ship.
Some people of course have good knowledge of markets and trade, some know how to research markets for industry, and there are of course other ways to make isk, and that my fellow capsuleers is what I am trying to discover.
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Cypherous
Liberty Rogues Aprilon Dynasty
208
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Posted - 2016.05.05 08:35:52 -
[2] - Quote
Miktek wrote:I would like to call upon the opinions of players, particularly PVP players with regards self-sufficiency. Be it your own corpGÇÖs or alliances doctrines which may be expensive, or when looking for a new corp and they announce that you must be self-sufficient in your isk making which essentially means no SRP. How do you efficiently make your ISK? I realise that is a question that none will answer in any detail but IGÇÖll throw this post out there on the off chance.
Let say for example you want, or your corp doctrine dictates you have a ship that costs between 300m and 400m to buy and fit. Some people see that as pocket change, but for others it is quite an investment. How do you get to a level where that kind of expenditure is OK to do without thinking that you have to spend hours doing a random PVE task (mining, industry, ratting, exploration) in order to make that money back should the ship explode into a thousand pixels.
I have 2 accounts, with 6 toons and my main source of income is PI, I live in a WH so the planets are pretty good, that nets me between 800 / 900m a month gross, skim a bit off for poco taxes and other costs as well as time and I suppose I have about 750 to 850m per month in my wallet, now I do not PVP that much and if I do it tends to be in cheaper T1 cruisers.
But say I wanted to PVP in a ship costing 350m, if I lose 3 of those in a month (yeah I am bad at pvp) I am running at a loss. I donGÇÖt really rat anymore but when I did in null I was making maybe 50m a site inc salvaging, that would take maybe 20/25 minutes. So approx. 100m an hour, 3.5hours to make the isk to get the ship. It just seems like a lot of time to get the isk to get that level of ship.
Some people of course have good knowledge of markets and trade, some know how to research markets for industry, and there are of course other ways to make isk, and that my fellow capsuleers is what I am trying to discover.
Running HQ incursion sites can net you 180mil an hour before the concord LP in gives you per site |
Elinara Yamamoto
Latex Entosis
19
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Posted - 2016.05.05 08:39:26 -
[3] - Quote
I make 2.8b per month per account (3 toons 6 planets each all relevant PI skills at V)
You are doing PI wrong... It is my main income, and I do have more than 1 account as well... |
Miktek
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
2
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Posted - 2016.05.05 08:42:39 -
[4] - Quote
That is pretty good money, I hear that the ships used are very blingy and expensive though, way above the example costs I was using. And thinking beyond myself to new players the EvE that would take them a pretty substantial training queue and ISK investment to get into, but certainly an option for me that I may look into, thanks. |
Miktek
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
2
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Posted - 2016.05.05 08:50:45 -
[5] - Quote
Elinara Yamamoto wrote:I make 2.8b per month per account (3 toons 6 planets each all relevant PI skills at V)
You are doing PI wrong... It is my main income, and I do have more than 1 account as well...
Wow, yes indeed I am doing it very very wrong then, so you use only 18 planets in total where as I use 31 (1 toon with 6 and 5 toons with 5), most of my skills are at IV although have CC V on a few of them. I am gonna ask, but I expect no answer really, but hey, if you don't ask you don't get... if you ever get the urge to relay the "how" please feel free to mail me :) |
Angelique Duchemin
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
999
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Posted - 2016.05.05 08:59:40 -
[6] - Quote
The only way to do PI right is to call in the holy Inquisition to perform exterminatus on the whole planet and then move on.
Expect to make somewhere around 100-250 million isk per pilot on PI per month. Depending on how much of you Eve time you want to spend on PI (the less the better)
If you want to make isk then put an Ishtar alt into some null sec entity that has sov and do low effort nullsec sites. It's a good income because it allows you to make isk independently of where you yourself are operating.
And honestly. 350 million isk ships? That is ridiculously expensive for run of the mill pvp. You need to move on to ships you can afford to lose. Have you tried T3 destroyers? They are very strong, mobile and not very expensive.
The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.
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Miktek
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
2
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Posted - 2016.05.05 09:41:23 -
[7] - Quote
Angelique Duchemin wrote:The only way to do PI right is to call in the holy Inquisition to perform exterminatus on the whole planet and then move on.
Expect to make somewhere around 100-250 million isk per pilot on PI per month. Depending on how much of you Eve time you want to spend on PI (the less the better)
If you want to make isk then put an Ishtar alt into some null sec entity that has sov and do low effort nullsec sites. It's a good income because it allows you to make isk independently of where you yourself are operating.
And honestly. 350 million isk ships? That is ridiculously expensive for run of the mill pvp. You need to move on to ships you can afford to lose. Have you tried T3 destroyers? They are very strong, mobile and not very expensive.
* PI bores me and I try to spend as little time on it as I can, I on average 10 minutes per day a couple of times per week, weekends when I go to collect all the stuff it maybe 30/45 minutes, my figures that I am getting are between your examples
* Putting an alt elsewhere, that is an interesting concept, a coupl eof hiccups spring to mind. 1: what null sec entitiy would want an alt and not a main and 2: my alt would be part of the 6 toons I have which I need to do the PI for the P3 I am making but one to think about
* I personally do not use 350m ships for PVP, at least not solo, but I have seen people do so and was just using it as an example, but even a well fitted T3 Destroyer is the best part of 100m (least according to the KMs I see) so yeah more affordable but still not throwaway as such.
For new players though PI is viable, although high sec is pretty dire from what I hear.
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Sustrai Aditua
Irubo Kovu
147
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Posted - 2016.05.05 12:49:29 -
[8] - Quote
What the top gun pilots never tell you is - PvP is a money sink. It's expensive. That's why you find the fabulous PvP brave dudes out ganking helpless industrials to grab the loot, sell it, then pay for the ships they fly that they "can afford to lose." I mean, what shows your PvP skills more than bumping and chipping away at a huge freighter for half an hour?! OR, better yet, one-shotting a mining barge! Now, that takes skill and effort. (I'm sure they'll be very quick to tell you.)
But, the elephant in the room fact of the matter is: Nobody can really afford to lose. Eventually, you lose everything. THEN you have to go out and EARN MORE ISK, like a good fellow. (And hope you don't get ganked in the process by your PvP buddies who're still spending their ISK and don't need to go out and EARN MORE YET.)
This is like Ouroboros, the famous snake eating itself by the tail. It makes for great tattoo and jewelry design, but as an engineering concept it's rather limited. In fact it's very difficult to find it "emerging" very much, when it's actually engulfing for a living. (But, hey. Who's gonna argue with a bunch of software engineers who design "games," amirite??)
SO, kids. If you PvP, lol, you're losing MONEY. You HAVE to go out eventually and EARN IT LIKE THE CAREBEARS DO!!
(Amazing the poetic justice in this life, no?)
And...TYVM Have a nice day! |
Imperator Kane
My Little Ponies of the Apocalypse
102
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Posted - 2016.05.05 12:53:31 -
[9] - Quote
Use your alts for exactly what they are trained for. Any additional SP gained can be sold at 300mil per injector.
Cannibal Kane was my Test Character.
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Miktek
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
2
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Posted - 2016.05.05 13:54:49 -
[10] - Quote
Imperator Kane wrote:Use your alts for exactly what they are trained for. Any additional SP gained can be sold at 300mil per injector.
Hadn't thought of SP farming |
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Ma'am
Search and Deploy
1
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Posted - 2016.05.05 14:14:13 -
[11] - Quote
Miktek wrote:Imperator Kane wrote:Use your alts for exactly what they are trained for. Any additional SP gained can be sold at 300mil per injector. Hadn't thought of SP farming
Can confirm I use 5 SP Farms to fund my Solo PVP antics. Per week I earn roughly 1.5Bil. More than enough to cover my frigates and I'm getting better at PVP which means I loose less ships.
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sci0gon
Kaira Innovations Superior Eve Engineering
67
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Posted - 2016.05.05 14:20:03 -
[12] - Quote
Firstly you need to be picky, if they can pick doctrine ships that are over priced and require you to reimburse your own ships tell them to go eat a dik or something like that. There are plenty of places that offer SRP which dont include really expensive ship setups but do the job.
The main sources of income currently in game is incursions, wh'n and fw, along with sp farming on the side.
market trading isnt bad regardless of the tax change, its still possible to make 1 bil+ a day but requires a lot of monitoring which is tedious. So if you dont mind tedious game play then trading might be good.
you said you have players in a wormhole doing PI, are you hitting the sites to get other things too?
Considering WH's is the main source for where T3 ships come from I'm surprised you didnt mention you were farming them. |
Darth Terona
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
256
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Posted - 2016.05.05 14:30:56 -
[13] - Quote
Come to think of it, I haven't earned money in two years...
How the hell do I do it!???
PvE not for me |
Mephiztopheleze
Republic University Minmatar Republic
678
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Posted - 2016.05.05 14:40:24 -
[14] - Quote
Miktek wrote:
I have 2 accounts, with 6 toons and my main source of income is PI, I live in a WH so the planets are pretty good, that nets me between 800 / 900m a month gross.....
800m-900m/month from 6 PI characters, in a wormhole? you're doing it wrong.
Are you selling P1, P2, P3 or P4 planetary products? Seriously, you need to have a good look at your setups, I average >400m/month/character from PI.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
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Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1078
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Posted - 2016.05.05 15:09:28 -
[15] - Quote
Another option is to review the doctrine and see if there is a niche role you can fufill at a lower cost. For example, yes a HAC or BS may cost 500 mil and be a good addition to the front line. However, an interceptor or interdictor can be just as valuable but cost a fraction of the dps ship. Or you could opt to provide EWAR support in the form of a black bird or celestis.
Now granted, this may not work in all scenarios. The above suggest work for PvP but may not help in PvE. Still, in PvE a t1 logi cruiser may be a cheap and useful option you could use. An assault frig could take out smaller rats, letting the bigger ships focus on the larger ones.
In other words, don't assume there are not cheap options that could compliment existing comps. It just may be you have to find this niche. |
Isaac Armer
Tactical Stability Union Apocalypse Now.
218
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Posted - 2016.05.05 15:23:05 -
[16] - Quote
You live in a WH, have you thought about setting up production for T3 components? Gas harvesting can be very profitable. |
Thatguy Yahknow
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2016.05.05 15:31:16 -
[17] - Quote
I run PI in null, 3 toons to lvl IV total of 15 planets, and make around 2 bil a month, 30 minutes a day if I hustle. Go to t3 as it saves a lot of time hauling. |
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
727
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Posted - 2016.05.05 15:49:49 -
[18] - Quote
800-900mil/month should be PER character so I dont know what you are talking about that you cannot afford a 350mil isk ship every month.
You should feel bad for this entire thread. Not only are you bragging but you are also whining and trolling.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
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Miktek
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
2
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Posted - 2016.05.05 19:56:56 -
[19] - Quote
Darth Terona wrote:Come to think of it, I haven't earned money in two years...
How the hell do I do it!???
PvE not for me Dunno, if you wanna share though, feel free :) |
Miktek
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
2
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Posted - 2016.05.05 19:57:48 -
[20] - Quote
Thanks for the repsonses everyone, lots to think over, especially different hitngs to how I am doing things now. |
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
15448
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Posted - 2016.05.05 20:02:39 -
[21] - Quote
Miktek wrote:Darth Terona wrote:Come to think of it, I haven't earned money in two years...
How the hell do I do it!???
PvE not for me Dunno, if you wanna share though, feel free :) plex, much like myself he cba grinding
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Miktek
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
2
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Posted - 2016.05.05 20:04:43 -
[22] - Quote
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:800-900mil/month should be PER character so I dont know what you are talking about that you cannot afford a 350mil isk ship every month. You should feel bad for this entire thread. Not only are you bragging but you are also whining and trolling.
That is not what I am saying |
Miktek
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
2
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Posted - 2016.05.05 20:05:31 -
[23] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Miktek wrote:Darth Terona wrote:Come to think of it, I haven't earned money in two years...
How the hell do I do it!???
PvE not for me Dunno, if you wanna share though, feel free :) plex, much like myself he cba grinding
Paid for plex with cash? thats kinda the oppsoite of how I want to do it, if I plex I want to earn the isk in game to buy game time, not buy plex to sell for isk. |
Miktek
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
2
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Posted - 2016.05.05 20:06:35 -
[24] - Quote
Mephiztopheleze wrote:Miktek wrote:
I have 2 accounts, with 6 toons and my main source of income is PI, I live in a WH so the planets are pretty good, that nets me between 800 / 900m a month gross.....
800m-900m/month from 6 PI characters, in a wormhole? you're doing it wrong. Are you selling P1, P2, P3 or P4 planetary products? Seriously, you need to have a good look at your setups, I average >400m/month/character from PI.
P3, Supercomputers in fact. I read earlier that I am doing it wrong, thing is in that case, I dont know how to do it right.
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Miktek
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
2
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Posted - 2016.05.05 20:08:16 -
[25] - Quote
Isaac Armer wrote:You live in a WH, have you thought about setting up production for T3 components? Gas harvesting can be very profitable.
Tried gas, bored me more than ratting tbh, I may retry to see how lucrative it is, we (as in my corp) do Ninja huffing from time to time. production seems time consuming, I dont have my own POS with a industry setup . |
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1079
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Posted - 2016.05.05 20:08:58 -
[26] - Quote
Miktek wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Miktek wrote:Darth Terona wrote:Come to think of it, I haven't earned money in two years...
How the hell do I do it!???
PvE not for me Dunno, if you wanna share though, feel free :) plex, much like myself he cba grinding Paid for plex with cash? thats kinda the oppsoite of how I want to do it, if I plex I want to earn the isk in game to buy game time, not buy plex to sell for isk.
Ah, but the question becomes how do you value your time. In some cases people make enough money in real life with limited game tima that they woukd prefer to enjoy PvP and purchase plex to afford ships. |
Miktek
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
2
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Posted - 2016.05.05 20:09:30 -
[27] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:Another option is to review the doctrine and see if there is a niche role you can fufill at a lower cost. For example, yes a HAC or BS may cost 500 mil and be a good addition to the front line. However, an interceptor or interdictor can be just as valuable but cost a fraction of the dps ship. Or you could opt to provide EWAR support in the form of a black bird or celestis.
Now granted, this may not work in all scenarios. The above suggest work for PvP but may not help in PvE. Still, in PvE a t1 logi cruiser may be a cheap and useful option you could use. An assault frig could take out smaller rats, letting the bigger ships focus on the larger ones.
In other words, don't assume there are not cheap options that could compliment existing comps. It just may be you have to find this niche.
It isnt a doctrine as such, for doctrine anyways we are SRP covered, this was more of a solo enquiry in general from killmails that I have seen and videos etc, where people pvp in expensive ships, just curious between the cost and time needed to earn that isk back |
Miktek
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
2
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Posted - 2016.05.05 20:10:37 -
[28] - Quote
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:Miktek wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Miktek wrote:Darth Terona wrote:Come to think of it, I haven't earned money in two years...
How the hell do I do it!???
PvE not for me Dunno, if you wanna share though, feel free :) plex, much like myself he cba grinding Paid for plex with cash? thats kinda the oppsoite of how I want to do it, if I plex I want to earn the isk in game to buy game time, not buy plex to sell for isk. Ah, but the question becomes how do you value your time. In some cases people make enough money in real life with limited game tima that they woukd prefer to enjoy PvP and purchase plex to afford ships.
sadly paying for 2 accounts at -ú28 per account per 3 months is prob my limit cash wise. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
15448
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Posted - 2016.05.05 20:12:11 -
[29] - Quote
Miktek wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Miktek wrote:Darth Terona wrote:Come to think of it, I haven't earned money in two years...
How the hell do I do it!???
PvE not for me Dunno, if you wanna share though, feel free :) plex, much like myself he cba grinding Paid for plex with cash? thats kinda the oppsoite of how I want to do it, if I plex I want to earn the isk in game to buy game time, not buy plex to sell for isk. to each their own, i value my in-game time quite highly, i spend a little extra every now and again (when i have the disposable income) to forgo unnecessary grinding.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Miktek
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
2
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Posted - 2016.05.05 20:18:18 -
[30] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Miktek wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Miktek wrote:Darth Terona wrote:Come to think of it, I haven't earned money in two years...
How the hell do I do it!???
PvE not for me Dunno, if you wanna share though, feel free :) plex, much like myself he cba grinding Paid for plex with cash? thats kinda the oppsoite of how I want to do it, if I plex I want to earn the isk in game to buy game time, not buy plex to sell for isk. to each their own, i value my in-game time quite highly, i spend a little extra every now and again (when i have the disposable income) to forgo unnecessary grinding.
Out of interest, what kind of ships (value) do you fly, ie how long does that plex last you? |
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