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Isaac Armer
Tactical Stability Union Apocalypse Now.
219
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Posted - 2016.05.05 20:25:48 -
[31] - Quote
Miktek wrote:Tried gas, bored me more than ratting tbh, I may retry to see how lucrative it is, we (as in my corp) do Ninja huffing from time to time. production seems time consuming, I dont have my own POS with a industry setup .
You can buy the gas from others and just do the production, since that's about as AFK as PI, but you definitely need the industry POS setup.
The most lucrative gas is around 1 million ISK per cycle of gas harvesters. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
15449
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Posted - 2016.05.05 20:29:23 -
[32] - Quote
Miktek wrote: Out of interest, what kind of ships (value) do you fly, ie how long does that plex last you?
both blingy and dirt cheap, and a fairly long time, often ill get some of the isk back if a liquidate stuff.
granted iv found my feet and know how to keep my stuff alive (for the most part), i was hemorrhaging money when i was learning though so that was almost exclusively cheap stuff
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Miktek
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
2
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Posted - 2016.05.05 20:37:27 -
[33] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Miktek wrote: Out of interest, what kind of ships (value) do you fly, ie how long does that plex last you?
both blingy and dirt cheap, and a fairly long time, often ill get some of the isk back if a liquidate stuff. granted iv found my feet and know how to keep my stuff alive (for the most part), i was hemorrhaging money when i was learning though so that was almost exclusively cheap stuff
I tend to go with cheap stuff beuase I am afriad of hemorrhaging money, but my training is taking me towards HACS and HICS and cloaky recons etc and I am tempted ill admit :D
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suzie Atild
Rancid Rabid Rabis No Handlebars.
0
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Posted - 2016.05.05 21:47:50 -
[34] - Quote
Sustrai Aditua wrote:
SO, kids. If you PvP, lol, you're losing MONEY. You HAVE to go out eventually and EARN IT LIKE THE CAREBEARS!!
I'm actually making my money via pvp... Though I just noticed this isn't my main.
It's easy to get more back in isk than you lose. You just have to do a little planning beforehand. |
Darth Terona
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
257
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Posted - 2016.05.06 00:17:41 -
[35] - Quote
" Out of interest, what kind of ships (value) do you fly, ie how long does that plex last you?"
Look at my kb. I mostly fly solo battleships
After insurance, the cost is around 140mil per bs.
With my limited time, my plex money lasts me all month. And I fly pretty crazy
You could easily fly smart and earn enuff in t1 cruisers just looting wrecks, picking up drones, to sustain you indefinatly. |
Sustrai Aditua
Irubo Kovu
153
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Posted - 2016.05.06 01:14:06 -
[36] - Quote
Whoopsy. I feel soooooo very neglected. |
Darth Terona
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
257
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Posted - 2016.05.06 05:35:01 -
[37] - Quote
Sustrai Aditua wrote:Whoopsy. I feel soooooo very neglected.
Because your post is one from someone on the outside looking in
It's neither relevent or true
Not trying to be mean.
Most pirates I know make their pvp isk without care bearing |
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
733
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Posted - 2016.05.06 06:38:55 -
[38] - Quote
Unless you're selling plex, or having money handed to you so you can fight, behind every successful pvp pilot is a personal money empire. Some of us are crazy enough to eat where we sh*t. That's what living in and defending sov null is like. In my first year of EVE I had to run incursions to play the game for free. Then I started developing money alts that paid for themselves.
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
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Miktek
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
4
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Posted - 2016.05.06 07:32:55 -
[39] - Quote
suzie Atild wrote:Sustrai Aditua wrote:
SO, kids. If you PvP, lol, you're losing MONEY. You HAVE to go out eventually and EARN IT LIKE THE CAREBEARS!!
I'm actually making my money via pvp... Though I just noticed this isn't my main. It's easy to get more back in isk than you lose. You just have to do a little planning beforehand.
I need to survive more often in order to do that :) |
Miktek
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
4
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Posted - 2016.05.06 07:33:44 -
[40] - Quote
Darth Terona wrote:
" Out of interest, what kind of ships (value) do you fly, ie how long does that plex last you?"
Look at my kb. I mostly fly solo battleships
After insurance, the cost is around 140mil per bs.
With my limited time, my plex money lasts me all month. And I fly pretty crazy
You could easily fly smart and earn enuff in t1 cruisers just looting wrecks, picking up drones, to sustain you indefinatly.
I shall indeed look at your KB as soon as I have finished replying to the latest posts.
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Miktek
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
4
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Posted - 2016.05.06 07:35:59 -
[41] - Quote
Sustrai Aditua wrote:Whoopsy. I feel soooooo very neglected.
Lol, sorry Sustrai, I did read your post, I just wasnGÇÖt sure how to respond to it and it came across as a rant (in my head anyway). IGÇÖll have another readGǪgive us a mo.
GǪ back.
The way I read your comment is that anyone that PVPs will need to PVE (or gank or whatever) in order to make ISK to buy ships and fittings to continue to PVP. If I am reading that right (please correct me if I am wrong) then I am aware of that, and that is pretty much what my post was about. I am in an alliance, alliance ops are SRPGÇÖd
I was thinking about the difference between flying a relatively expensive ship in solo (micro gang) pvp, losing it and how much time would it take to recoup the money to buy that ship again, it is a hypothetical scenario but one that I think is valid. And I suppose to get ideas in order to maximise my isk earning but by spending a minimal time doing it so I can spend more time PVPing than PVEing
IGÇÖve no idea what you are talking about with regards the bridge lol, I assume humour, but humour in text is difficult to pull off.
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Miktek
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
4
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Posted - 2016.05.06 07:48:18 -
[42] - Quote
Amyclas Amatin wrote:Unless you're selling plex, or having money handed to you so you can fight, behind every successful pvp pilot is a personal money empire. Some of us are crazy enough to eat where we sh*t. That's what living in and defending sov null is like. In my first year of EVE I had to run incursions to play the game for free. Then I started developing money alts that paid for themselves.
IGÇÖve lived in null, before I had my 2nd account, I used to go out a rat mainly, 25/30 minutes I think it was forsaken havens I used to do (I cannot recall for sure) and I used to pull in maybe 50m but I used to drop MTU to salvage etc (it may have been less than that but letGÇÖs say 50m
And that is the basis around my question, let say it take me 30 mins to make 50m by ratting, if I buy and lose a 300m ship, that is 3 hours to make that money back, if my game time is 4 hours then I am spending 75% of my time ratting to do 25% of PVP and I am.
In my corp I wouldnGÇÖt be covered for that ship in a solo capacity but if I was doctrine and on a fleet I would but my query was more around that GÇ£must be isk efficientGÇ¥ notifications that I see on certain recruitment posts, if you had to be 100% isk efficient to buy doctrine ships, some of which can be expensive then doing 50m every 30 minutes just aint gonna cut it.
As well as myself who has a fairly large bank balance I was thinking about new guys to the game in general and thinking that it is the isk making rather than lack of skills (as it seems a reason for new players not feeling engaged is the SP gap) that maybe drives new players away.
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2442
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Posted - 2016.05.06 08:11:42 -
[43] - Quote
Personally I would not join a group, requiring me to lose and pay for ships more often, than I'm casually being able to replace. Without such a group self-sufficiency is quite easy, because you can always define your own investment and with whom and how you fly. My focus is on T3D and below (price wise), hence I can afford to regularly lose 100m ships. My somewhat steady income source is PvP loot / clone tags, and currently a good part from manufacturing. Additionally if I'm getting bored of PvP from time to time I do relic exploration. I tried almost everything including incursions, and didn't like PvE with low but steady income, it feels too much like work. I much prefer all the chance based income sources including market opportunities.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Miktek
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
4
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Posted - 2016.05.06 08:19:34 -
[44] - Quote
Tipa Riot wrote:Personally I would not join a group, requiring me to lose and pay for ships more often, than I'm casually being able to replace. Without such a group self-sufficiency is quite easy, because you can always define your own investment and with whom and how you fly. My focus is on T3D and below (price wise), hence I can afford to regularly lose 100m ships. My somewhat steady income source is PvP loot / clone tags, and currently a good part from manufacturing. Additionally if I'm getting bored of PvP from time to time I do relic exploration. I tried almost everything including incursions, and didn't like PvE with low but steady income, it feels too much like work. I much prefer all the chance based income sources including market opportunities.
I think this is way I am currently, or at least want to to go. personally I am flying T1 cruisers at the moment so my loses are sub 50m, my PI gives me more than enough currently, I will get onto T3D but the fact that they are so overpowered in fact puts me off a little (perhaps I am a glutton for punishment)
I do exploration too which from a WH base is pretty good in C2 and below WHs as well as the multiple low/null sec exit we get.
As i say though, my group does SRP, my query is outside of that, I would not join a group... indeed I left one, where although the hull was SRPd the fitting were not and some doctrine ships were 650m, way above my comfort zone.
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Darth Terona
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
257
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Posted - 2016.05.06 09:07:26 -
[45] - Quote
It's nothing fancy Just a record of a good ol boy having fun |
Miktek
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
4
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Posted - 2016.05.06 09:10:36 -
[46] - Quote
Darth Terona wrote:It's nothing fancy Just a record of a good ol boy having fun
And that is all we can aim for :), I may try that BS thing, I've been meaning to do it for a while. |
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
733
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Posted - 2016.05.06 09:26:28 -
[47] - Quote
Miktek wrote:Amyclas Amatin wrote:Unless you're selling plex, or having money handed to you so you can fight, behind every successful pvp pilot is a personal money empire. Some of us are crazy enough to eat where we sh*t. That's what living in and defending sov null is like. In my first year of EVE I had to run incursions to play the game for free. Then I started developing money alts that paid for themselves. IGÇÖve lived in null, before I had my 2nd account, I used to go out a rat mainly, 25/30 minutes I think it was forsaken havens I used to do (I cannot recall for sure) and I used to pull in maybe 50m but I used to drop MTU to salvage etc (it may have been less than that but letGÇÖs say 50m And that is the basis around my question, let say it take me 30 mins to make 50m by ratting, if I buy and lose a 300m ship, that is 3 hours to make that money back, if my game time is 4 hours then I am spending 75% of my time ratting to do 25% of PVP and I am. In my corp I wouldnGÇÖt be covered for that ship in a solo capacity but if I was doctrine and on a fleet I would but my query was more around that GÇ£must be isk efficientGÇ¥ notifications that I see on certain recruitment posts, if you had to be 100% isk efficient to buy doctrine ships, some of which can be expensive then doing 50m every 30 minutes just aint gonna cut it. As well as myself who has a fairly large bank balance I was thinking about new guys to the game in general and thinking that it is the isk making rather than lack of skills (as it seems a reason for new players not feeling engaged is the SP gap) that maybe drives new players away.
I flew tackle and ewar a lot when I started living in nullsec. A new player may not have the skills to fly shiny turds properly, but you don't really need them to. I encourage our newbies to fly a variety of roles to see what they prefer.
Large sov holding alliances (The Imperium is the last one left) are also socialist states that pay their members to fight. Usually the only isk our line members lose is either in implants or from the markup over jita prices if they aren't importing their ships themselves. Many GSF member-corps give double reimbursements to deal with markups.
Nowadays isk translates directly to skills. In the socialist state that is GSF line member isk goes to plexing accounts and accumulating capitals and supercapital ships as well as investments. But most combat costs are absorbed by the state.
Also confirming that if we can't afk rat in nullsec, we're all running incursions in TVP on alts right next to those horde and PL guys. That unassailable isk fountain is crazy, but you gotta do what is optimal.
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
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Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2444
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Posted - 2016.05.06 09:37:40 -
[48] - Quote
Miktek wrote:Tipa Riot wrote:Personally I would not join a group, requiring me to lose and pay for ships more often, than I'm casually being able to replace. Without such a group self-sufficiency is quite easy, because you can always define your own investment and with whom and how you fly. My focus is on T3D and below (price wise), hence I can afford to regularly lose 100m ships. My somewhat steady income source is PvP loot / clone tags, and currently a good part from manufacturing. Additionally if I'm getting bored of PvP from time to time I do relic exploration. I tried almost everything including incursions, and didn't like PvE with low but steady income, it feels too much like work. I much prefer all the chance based income sources including market opportunities. I think this is way I am currently, or at least want to to go. personally I am flying T1 cruisers at the moment so my loses are sub 50m, my PI gives me more than enough currently, I will get onto T3D but the fact that they are so overpowered in fact puts me off a little (perhaps I am a glutton for punishment) I do exploration too which from a WH base is pretty good in C2 and below WHs as well as the multiple low/null sec exit we get. As i say though, my group does SRP, my query is outside of that, I would not join a group... indeed I left one, where although the hull was SRPd the fitting were not and some doctrine ships were 650m, way above my comfort zone. T3Ds are very good allrounders for solo, but not always optimal in fleets you want to get a decent fight with. But 100m will also buy you a good faction cruiser or T1 battle cruiser, with a bit more + insurance you get a battleship. Important is that you have some control over what you fly and your losses. With the same budget you can fly 650m ships all the time if you let's say not lose more than one per week, or flying it only once per week.
I'm my own NPC alt.
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Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
1726
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Posted - 2016.05.06 10:09:53 -
[49] - Quote
So your corp asks you to be self-sufficient and fly doctrines, what do you get in return? Eve is a game of actions and consequences. Those that say PVP is nothing bit an ISK sink have never defended anything of actual value. Something that, for instance, would enable a corp / alliance to at least support their members to get into those ships. Anything between local markets and actual pre-fitted fleets ready to be insured and boarded.
Let's say that your corp holds a few POCO's and your tax is 0%. Or holds an area where good PVE content is found. Utilize that space. If your corp is effective at driving out competitors the sites are yours. Members profit. Yeah, you can tell people to "go run incursions" or something like that but it requires them to flutter about. The conquest game is also about shaping the universe itself to your group's advantage. You don't get to run good sites in bling ships without making other people think twice about entering your living space. |
Miktek
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
4
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Posted - 2016.05.06 10:19:44 -
[50] - Quote
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:So your corp asks you to be self-sufficient and fly doctrines, what do you get in return? Eve is a game of actions and consequences. Those that say PVP is nothing bit an ISK sink have never defended anything of actual value. Something that, for instance, would enable a corp / alliance to at least support their members to get into those ships. Anything between local markets and actual pre-fitted fleets ready to be insured and boarded.
Let's say that your corp holds a few POCO's and your tax is 0%. Or holds an area where good PVE content is found. Utilize that space. If your corp is effective at driving out competitors the sites are yours. Members profit. Yeah, you can tell people to "go run incursions" or something like that but it requires them to flutter about. The conquest game is also about shaping the universe itself to your group's advantage. You don't get to run good sites in bling ships without making other people think twice about entering your living space.
Indeed, and that is something my alliance is very good at, in null we held sov, had good upgraded systems and reasonable tax. Any loot brought home on an op goes towards the SRP fund. As for the other advertising their options on the forums I am unsure of. |
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14070
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Posted - 2016.05.06 12:36:27 -
[51] - Quote
Miktek wrote:That is pretty good money, I hear that the ships used are very blingy and expensive though, way above the example costs I was using. And thinking beyond myself to new players the EvE that would take them a pretty substantial training queue and ISK investment to get into, but certainly an option for me that I may look into, thanks.
This is the most newbro friendly high sec incursion community I know of: http://forums.eve-warptome.com/
Talk to them in their in game channel and they (the organization and the community) will tell you everything they need to know. I tend to run with TVP (who are still fairly new runner friendly), but I always send newbros to WTM 1st.
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Kaska Iskalar
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
64
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Posted - 2016.05.06 15:53:20 -
[52] - Quote
Miktek wrote:I have 2 accounts, with 6 toons and my main source of income is PI PI isn't supposed to be a main income. It's supposed to be passive extra income on the side while you do your real job. |
Miktek
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
4
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Posted - 2016.05.06 18:08:08 -
[53] - Quote
Kaska Iskalar wrote:Miktek wrote:I have 2 accounts, with 6 toons and my main source of income is PI PI isn't supposed to be a main income. It's supposed to be passive extra income on the side while you do your real job.
At between 750 to 850m a month Ive yet to find something that gives as much isk for as little work. |
Vegarc
Hedion University Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2016.05.06 19:04:32 -
[54] - Quote
Miktek wrote:How do you efficiently make your ISK?
I pretend to run missions, but I really would just buy a PLEX if I needed to fit some PVP ships. |
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
1726
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Posted - 2016.05.09 17:55:33 -
[55] - Quote
Miktek, I myself am also unsure as how to determine a corp's culture looking from the outside in. Fact is tho... corps need people. People don't need corps. OR alliances. If leadership never gives anything back, that group will eventually disintegrate. I've never met a player that didn't like the idea of not having to risk his own ship in a stratop. We're not the biggest corp, but nobody ever left because they felt we drained their wallet with PVP demands. It's silly and would have lost us people. But I'm telling this from a lowsec pespective, where the money isn't free and system security doesn't exist. |
Miktek
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
4
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Posted - 2016.05.09 20:16:07 -
[56] - Quote
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:Miktek, I myself am also unsure as how to determine a corp's culture looking from the outside in. Fact is tho... corps need people. People don't need corps. OR alliances. If leadership never gives anything back, that group will eventually disintegrate. I've never met a player that didn't like the idea of not having to risk his own ship in a stratop. We're not the biggest corp, but nobody ever left because they felt we drained their wallet with PVP demands. It's silly and would have lost us people. But I'm telling this from a lowsec pespective, where the money isn't free and system security doesn't exist.
Hi Inxentas. Whilst I agree with you that was not the purpose of my post, nothing to do with being in a corp or alliance, or stratops. The purpose of my post was about an individual player, could be anyone, buying a relative expensive ship, say 300m to go out and do some pvp, and then how long it would take to get the money back to replace that ship should it be lost. I guess really just exploring that most people would have to do more PVE than PVP. It was hyperthetical as really no one should take out a 300m ship solo unless they know what they are doing.
The corp I am with doesnGÇÖt drain anyone for isk, we have SRP, ships given out etc, in fact the corp really looks after its people, and whilst I have tried other corps this one has been the best so far in terms of organisation and let people do what they wish to do.
You cannot really tell a corps culture from the outside, you can only go by any chats you may have in public channel and how they conduct themselves and if it marries up with what you want that is great, but you wont really know unless you join. |
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
1729
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Posted - 2016.05.11 22:00:33 -
[57] - Quote
Hi Miktek. I think it depends on a lot of factors to determine what is normal or what should be normal. We are forgetting scope here. When I do PVE I do so leasurely. I am not in any hurry and I do not worry about ISK/Hr. So I do not join any Incursion fleets but cherrypick content from lowsec's menu. What content you can consume is largely SP based.
PVP expense is not. Example?
Say I run belts in a lowsec system that has 15+ belts and has 0.2 sec stat. Clone tags from that system would sell for idk, say 25m to make things easy. I run that system in a modest Cynabal config, perhaps get lucky and nab two tags. This might take me about half an hour or so because as I said, I am in no rush.
But I made 50m.
I can PVP all night on 50m if I wanted to. I would pick the scope of frigates. This is how I could potentially spend the majority of time actually PVPing. SRP just helps to increase potential scope. Because the actions tied to gaining that ISK (moongoo,poco income) are minute compared to people running PVE content actively. It's a slow continuous crawl compared to a burst of PVE activity in the daily schedule of a human being. Hence leading to the replacement of more costly fleets at less effort. And thus a larger scope of combat.
War. |
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