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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2496
|
Posted - 2016.05.22 17:38:54 -
[211] - Quote
Gardav wrote:and scared "fish" don't openly admit on exit surveys they got scared away (un-subscribed) because other Players "over fished" them (CODE's program). Nope... too embarrassing to admit that for most players.... CCP will never know just how many customers they have lost through the years because of these noisy fishermen. So it does not matter that CCP actually checked and found that ganked players where the most likely to keep playing EVE contrary to what carebear apologists like you told them in every thread. You just pretend the players who quit all lied?
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1641
|
Posted - 2016.05.22 17:56:12 -
[212] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Gardav wrote:and scared "fish" don't openly admit on exit surveys they got scared away (un-subscribed) because other Players "over fished" them (CODE's program). Nope... too embarrassing to admit that for most players.... CCP will never know just how many customers they have lost through the years because of these noisy fishermen. So it does not matter that CCP actually checked and found that ganked players where the most likely to keep playing EVE contrary to what carebear apologists like you told them in every thread. You just pretend the players who quit all lied?
You are referring to a survey of 15 day old players in basically their trial period, a very small and specific sample. Any one who has done statistics will just laugh at your extrapolation.
COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
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Areen Sassel
103
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Posted - 2016.05.22 20:38:22 -
[213] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:So it does not matter that CCP actually checked and found that ganked players where the most likely to keep playing EVE contrary to what carebear apologists like you told them in every thread. You just pretend the players who quit all lied? You are referring to a survey of 15 day old players in basically their trial period, a very small and specific sample. Any one who has done statistics will just laugh at your extrapolation.
Mmm. On the other hand, we might be wary of speculation that the opposite is true based on even less evidence. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1645
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 06:45:55 -
[214] - Quote
Areen Sassel wrote:Dracvlad wrote:Ima Wreckyou wrote:So it does not matter that CCP actually checked and found that ganked players where the most likely to keep playing EVE contrary to what carebear apologists like you told them in every thread. You just pretend the players who quit all lied? You are referring to a survey of 15 day old players in basically their trial period, a very small and specific sample. Any one who has done statistics will just laugh at your extrapolation. Mmm. On the other hand, we might be wary of speculation that the opposite is true based on even less evidence.
Only CCP will know for sure and actions speak louder than words, because they revised the tanks of mining ships to the correct level so people who wanted to be difficult to kill could sit in something difficult to kill and accept a lower yield while those who wanted more yield could sit in something less tanky and take losses.
The balance of mining ships is perfectly fine now and CODE can continue to butcher new miners who don't have the skill or knowledge to jump into the right ship.
COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
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Lucas Kell
Evolution. SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7753
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 07:07:59 -
[215] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Gardav wrote:and scared "fish" don't openly admit on exit surveys they got scared away (un-subscribed) because other Players "over fished" them (CODE's program). Nope... too embarrassing to admit that for most players.... CCP will never know just how many customers they have lost through the years because of these noisy fishermen. So it does not matter that CCP actually checked and found that ganked players where the most likely to keep playing EVE contrary to what carebear apologists like you told them in every thread. You just pretend the players who quit all lied? That's not even what they found lol. Every time you guys mention that analysis (which was terribly done by the way) your interpretation of it changes.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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xxxTRUSTxxx
Galactic Rangers EVEolution.
443
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 07:23:46 -
[216] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Lisbeth Riraille wrote:I am bad at the game so I just cry really hard and hope CCP changes it in my favor CCP repeatedly nerfed ganking over the years and it did nothing except that the remaining players banded together and started to kill even more miners as a response to the nerfs. This is not "poor miner" vs. "evil ganker". This is "clueless bad player" vs "a gamer with interest in the game mechanics". No change will eradicate us. The safer the carebears feel because of the nerfs the more they will stuff into their freighters, the more bling they will fit to their mining ships and the more it will hurt them if they get killed by our blessed anti-matter.
what is it with you code guys trying to lay claim to pretty much every gank tactic that's been in EVE since year 1.
8 years ago or so,, me,, mr new guy, mate in game says this.
the following ships get ganked all the time.
alt scouts pods haulers miners ships that are full of bling or rare.
nothings changed, just the excuse some give for doing it.
so kids,,,, to sum things up.
auto pilot = bad ignoring local = bad not using DS = bad flying what you can't afford to lose = bad afk in space = bad not setting some people to red (read ignoring local also) = bad not having friends = bad not setting your ship up right = bad not willing to learn your enemies tactics = bad
i could go on and on but those few points will guide you through EVE without fail and will always be your best allie.
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Christo Severasse
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
25
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Posted - 2016.05.23 07:35:17 -
[217] - Quote
Tears, so many tears from both sides. Whine followed by counter whine. If I have the misfortune to have to spend time mining (I like to build as much of the stuff I use as I can) I would love CODE to turn up and relieve the monotony for a few minutes. I mine in a tank fit procurer with combat drones in the bay. I NEVER see them, but I'm ready, willing and able to protect myself. Think of Eve as the wild west (not the film, it was bad) in space. You'll find that helps you prepare better for undocking than wondering if you can manage to get your laundry done and dog walked before the belt depletes. |
Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
2522
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 08:22:50 -
[218] - Quote
xxxTRUSTxxx wrote: what is it with you code guys trying to lay claim to pretty much every gank tactic that's been in EVE since year 1.
8 years ago or so,, me,, mr new guy, mate in game says this.
the following ships get ganked all the time.
alt scouts pods haulers miners ships that are full of bling or rare.
nothings changed, just the excuse some give for doing it.
No, you are wrong thing have changed. Highsec is mechanically safer than it ever has been, and still gets safer each year. Ganking, especially ganking for profit, is technically much more difficult than it was 8 years ago when, thanks to insurance, you could whelp a battleship and fail a gank and sometimes even still make a profit. It now requires dedication, organization, calculation and some practice to eek out a living as a ganker (and even that is not enough if you target miners as your prey), as compared to haphazard and profitable explosions anyone could participate in the early era of Eve.
That said, you are right in that ships still get ganked all the time. No matter how much carebears whine, or how many nerfs they managed to get implemented due to their failure to even try to defend themselves, they are still going to die as is the central design of the game. CCP will keep rebalancing, but given ships are suppose to die in highsec, they are still going to die in highsec. If that stops, then CCP will put them at greater risk until they start dying again. Even miners still die, as the players (primarily one heroic one) have organized a SRP program to keep this game play alive.
Highsec is extremely safe, almost perfectly safe if you spend any effort to defend yourself. You'd think after 13 years, carebears would get the message that they are indeed intended to have to do something to defend themselves in this PvP sandbox game instead of coming to the forums for the umpteenth time, asking CCP to save them from the bad people.
Carebears: CCP isn't going to save you. You can whine and complain and beg and sometimes you will get bone tossed to you and a pat on the head from CCP in the form another small buff (which you will usually squander by loading more stuff into your ships), but CCP is always going to put you back out there in space with a bull's eye on your back as the game is intended to work. You are deliberately made content for the other players so it is up to you to do something to protect your space assets.
Ganking is only going to increase from here. With every nerf to non-consensual PvP that CCP implements and each buff to highsec, targets dry up in the other spaces as players increasingly move to highsec to generate resources. Predators will follow and highsec residents will paradoxically be under more attack, not less as we go forward. Really, the only salvation for these poor highsec carebears is to get these non-carebear highsec squatters back out into the other spaces (so the predators will follow) by fixing the broken risk vs. reward income balance which CCP seems unwilling to do.
This is waxing too philosophical now. The game is working more-or-less as intended. Bottom line: CCP purposely makes you content, CCP intends for ganking to exists, CCP has looked hard and has found ganking has no detrimental effect on new players, and carebears, CCP is not going to to save you. Stop your "think of the children" lobbying to be made safe and just play the game, or go play something else where you are not the content on offer for the other players.
Why Do They Gank?
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Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
74
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 08:59:09 -
[219] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:[quote=xxxTRUSTxxx] This is waxing too philosophical now. The game is working more-or-less as intended. Bottom line: CCP purposely makes you content, CCP intends for ganking to exists, CCP has looked hard and has found ganking has no detrimental effect on new players, and carebears, CCP is not going to to save you. Stop your "think of the children" lobbying to be made safe and just play the game, or go play something else where you are not the content on offer for the other players.
The problem is not the ganking but that ALSO the criminals are protected by CONCORD. If they remove this it would get much better and more fun. Anti-Gankers can really fight gankers. We don't need more protection for the targets but less protection to the gankers. Something along the line of jump fatigue: 1 Kill: 1 day no help from Concord and no status loss, 2nd: 1 week, 3rd 1 month-> hello player content.
At the moment a ganker fleet can follow a target from one end of high to the other. Even if you know what they intend the solution isn't player content, get a fleet together and biomass them, but game mechanic: docking and waiting till they target someone else. Another problem is that you can minmax the attack: Concord will be there within x seconds so we need y ships to kill the target within this timeframe. More unpredictable Concord reaction time might lure them to try it with less ships: maybe they are lucky but maybe not. At the moment if you are good you can spreadsheet the attack: With the given amount of ships we can guarantee the kill/don't stand a chance. Make it unsafer. Give barges more slots and the ability to spidertank. Do they put in these modules or did they fit for max ore? How long will be Concords reaction time?
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
311
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 09:05:15 -
[220] - Quote
Geronimo McVain wrote:The problem is not the ganking but that ALSO the criminals are protected by CONCORD.
How do you figure that? |
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March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron
1769
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 09:27:56 -
[221] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Geronimo McVain wrote:The problem is not the ganking but that ALSO the criminals are protected by CONCORD.
How do you figure that? try to shoot that 'peaceful' destroyer sitting on gates waiting for pod to kill. You will find new mechanics for you: concord. And it does not help if you digged killboard and found out that this pilot kills 10 pod each day. He is protected until he aggressed.
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
74
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 09:36:48 -
[222] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Geronimo McVain wrote:The problem is not the ganking but that ALSO the criminals are protected by CONCORD.
How do you figure that? I'm in a BS full with Deadspace modules to the brim and some lousy catalyst with the most notorious ganker flys by. What do you do? Do you engage him and loose you blinky ship to concord or do you just leave him alone?
One of the things that keeps people inline RL is, that you can't tell how the others will react. If I **** of this girl in the subway someone might come to help her. In high you need to wardecc someone so you wave a big flag: here is the danger. That's exactly why you don't find this behaviour in low or Null. Anyone who is the hunter may be the target a second later. You are more cautious because it's all unpredictable. In high there is no reason for caution cause you can see it comming and even if you loose, it's not some shiny ship but a lousy cat with no shields and just some weapons. The miner puts 200+M Isk in danger, the freighter pilot 1+B and the ganker 20-30M ISK max. These ships are an easy kill for 90% of the other ships that fly around there but because of Concord they would loose an expansive ship just for the inconvenience of a ganker. So the ganker is save thanks to Concord. |
Lisbeth Riraille
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
18
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 09:47:06 -
[223] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:xxxTRUSTxxx wrote: what is it with you code guys trying to lay claim to pretty much every gank tactic that's been in EVE since year 1.
8 years ago or so,, me,, mr new guy, mate in game says this.
the following ships get ganked all the time.
alt scouts pods haulers miners ships that are full of bling or rare.
nothings changed, just the excuse some give for doing it.
No, you are wrong thing have changed. Highsec is mechanically safer than it ever has been, and still gets safer each year. Ganking, especially ganking for profit, is technically much more difficult than it was 8 years ago when, thanks to insurance, you could whelp a battleship and fail a gank and sometimes even still make a profit. It now requires dedication, organization, calculation and some practice to eek out a living as a ganker (and even that is not enough if you target miners as your prey), as compared to haphazard and profitable explosions anyone could participate in the early era of Eve. That said, you are right in that ships still get ganked all the time. No matter how much carebears whine, or how many nerfs they managed to get implemented due to their failure to even try to defend themselves, they are still going to die as is the central design of the game. CCP will keep rebalancing, but given ships are suppose to die in highsec, they are still going to die in highsec. If that stops, then CCP will put them at greater risk until they start dying again. Even miners still die, as the players (primarily one heroic one) have organized a SRP program to keep this game play alive. Highsec is extremely safe, almost perfectly safe if you spend any effort to defend yourself. You'd think after 13 years, carebears would get the message that they are indeed intended to have to do something to defend themselves in this PvP sandbox game instead of coming to the forums for the umpteenth time, asking CCP to save them from the bad people. Carebears: CCP isn't going to save you. You can whine and complain and beg and sometimes you will get bone tossed to you and a pat on the head from CCP in the form another small buff (which you will usually squander by loading more stuff into your ships), but CCP is always going to put you back out there in space with a bull's eye on your back as the game is intended to work. You are deliberately made content for the other players so it is up to you to do something to protect your space assets. Ganking is only going to increase from here. With every nerf to non-consensual PvP that CCP implements and each buff to highsec, targets dry up in the other spaces as players increasingly move to highsec to generate resources. Predators will follow and highsec residents will paradoxically be under more attack, not less as we go forward. Really, the only salvation for these poor highsec carebears is to get these non-carebear highsec squatters back out into the other spaces (so the predators will follow) by fixing the broken risk vs. reward income balance which CCP seems unwilling to do. This is waxing too philosophical now. The game is working more-or-less as intended. Bottom line: CCP purposely makes you content, CCP intends for ganking to exists, CCP has looked hard and has found ganking has no detrimental effect on new players, and carebears, CCP is not going to to save you. Stop your "think of the children" lobbying to be made safe and just play the game, or go play something else where you are not the content on offer for the other players.
Mr Pedro,
I would recommend you try to ignore the carebear anti-ganking lobbying, as it's not going away anytime soon, and it seems to infuriate you to post so much about it.
I would recommend this, but...
Just as the carebear sode of the debate needs to continue to be visible and vocal in their trumpeting of their cause, lest CCP forget they are here, so too do gankers.
The eternal struggle creates balance. If hisec ever did become totally safe, Eve would indeed be a different game. But it would also be a different game if hisec became nullsec. And nobody wants that.
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2496
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 09:51:39 -
[224] - Quote
Geronimo McVain wrote:I'm in a BS full with Deadspace modules to the brim and some lousy catalyst with the most notorious ganker flys by. What do you do? Do you engage him and loose you blinky ship to concord or do you just leave him alone? You greet him in local and wish him a good day. Then you send him some ISK because you are glad he protects Highsec from the real criminals.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
2523
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 09:51:43 -
[225] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Geronimo McVain wrote:The problem is not the ganking but that ALSO the criminals are protected by CONCORD.
How do you figure that? try to shoot that 'peaceful' destroyer sitting on gates waiting for pod to kill. You will find new mechanics for you: concord. And it does not help if you digged killboard and found out that this pilot kills 10 pod each day. He is protected until he aggressed. CCP spent a lot of effect designing the security status system which really does make repeat offenders 'outlaws' quite quickly and thus free-to-shoot. I recently had occasion to train up some new ganking alts, and within a day or two of enforcing the Code they were free to shoot and being chased by the faction police. Podding miners is especially punitive although still so satisfying one cannot help but do it and take the security status hit.
If that doesn't work (or you tag up), a single act of highsec piracy still puts you at risk by giving a trade-able killright to your victim that also can 'turn off' CONCORD making you free-to-shoot.
You also have a safety setting now that means you cannot accidentally get yourself CONCORDed anymore. If you are too scared to engage the outlaw ganker in the Catalyst that is not really a problem with the game, but rather you.
There is very little or no protection of regular gankers by CONCORD (and if they haven't ganked before, how do you propose to determine their intent to start?). That is not a problem. If any problem exists it is the faction police which keep these outlaws from spending any time in space and thus being a target for those who wish to hunt them.
Why Do They Gank?
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Pak Narhoo
Splinter Foundation
1712
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 09:54:04 -
[226] - Quote
Lisbeth Riraille wrote: Mr Pedro,
I would recommend you try to ignore the carebear anti-ganking lobbying, as it's not going away anytime soon, and it seems to infuriate you to post so much about it.
I would recommend this, but...
Just as the carebear sode of the debate needs to continue to be visible and vocal in their trumpeting of their cause, lest CCP forget they are here, so too do gankers.
The eternal struggle creates balance. If hisec ever did become totally safe, Eve would indeed be a different game. But it would also be a different game if hisec became nullsec. And nobody wants that.
Spin it any way you want he and the poster above him are right. And you know it.
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Lisbeth Riraille
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
18
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 09:56:33 -
[227] - Quote
Geronimo McVain wrote:Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Geronimo McVain wrote:The problem is not the ganking but that ALSO the criminals are protected by CONCORD.
How do you figure that? I'm in a BS full with Deadspace modules to the brim and some lousy catalyst with the most notorious ganker flys by. What do you do? Do you engage him and loose you blinky ship to concord or do you just leave him alone? One of the things that keeps people inline RL is, that you can't tell how the others will react. If I **** of this girl in the subway someone might come to help her. In high you need to wardecc someone so you wave a big flag: here is the danger. That's exactly why you don't find this behaviour in low or Null. Anyone who is the hunter may be the target a second later. You are more cautious because it's all unpredictable. In high there is no reason for caution cause you can see it comming and even if you loose, it's not some shiny ship but a lousy cat with no shields and just some weapons. The miner puts 200+M Isk in danger, the freighter pilot 1+B and the ganker 20-30M ISK max. These ships are an easy kill for 90% of the other ships that fly around there but because of Concord they would loose an expansive ship just for the inconvenience of a ganker. So the ganker is save thanks to Concord.
CODE says 'defend yourselves, miners!', hides behind skirts of Concorde. |
Lisbeth Riraille
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
18
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 09:57:37 -
[228] - Quote
Pak Narhoo wrote:Lisbeth Riraille wrote: Mr Pedro,
I would recommend you try to ignore the carebear anti-ganking lobbying, as it's not going away anytime soon, and it seems to infuriate you to post so much about it.
I would recommend this, but...
Just as the carebear sode of the debate needs to continue to be visible and vocal in their trumpeting of their cause, lest CCP forget they are here, so too do gankers.
The eternal struggle creates balance. If hisec ever did become totally safe, Eve would indeed be a different game. But it would also be a different game if hisec became nullsec. And nobody wants that.
Spin it any way you want he and the poster above him are right. And you know it.
He knows I'm right too, but neither of us can admit it or we break the meta. |
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2497
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 09:58:36 -
[229] - Quote
Lisbeth Riraille wrote:CODE says 'defend yourselves, miners!', hides behind skirts of Concorde. Cry some tears to remove CONCORD then. I hear it's your kind of playstyle.
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
312
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 10:30:01 -
[230] - Quote
FYI: The only thing hiding behind concord is the bumper, because he doesn't actually aggress.
The loot truck? Goes suspect. The gankalysts? Are -5 or worse and can be shot on sight. the blapthrashers sitting at gates with positive sec status .... gee, might it be they're waiting for criminals to show up? Those are the ANTIgankers you f*%$*T******** dimw*****
I repeat my question: which criminals are protected by concord? |
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Lisbeth Riraille
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
18
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 10:39:43 -
[231] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:FYI: The only thing hiding behind concord is the bumper, because he doesn't actually aggress.
The loot truck? Goes suspect. The gankalysts? Are -5 or worse and can be shot on sight. the blapthrashers sitting at gates with positive sec status .... gee, might it be they're waiting for criminals to show up? Those are the ANTIgankers you f*%$*T******** dimw*****
I repeat my question: which criminals are protected by concord?
The ones who rely on Concorde as enablers for their crimes, of course. James and his roleplay group in CODE won't try it in null because there's no concorde to protect them from being killed in their shieldless cats before they can start roleplaying. |
Lucas Kell
Evolution. SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7756
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 10:57:40 -
[232] - Quote
All of their logistics (as in moving their gank ships around) and scouts are protected by concord too. They want the easy-mode gameplay that enable them to only risk the disposable ships. Operating in null would mean everything needs to be protected. While they whine on that miners should have to protect themselves, the gankers actively avoid doing so, and they don't see the hypocrisy in that.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
|
Tisiphone Dira
New Order Logistics CODE.
864
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 11:27:59 -
[233] - Quote
Do as we say, not what unreliable sources say our alts do. I have it on good authority that our freighters fly round with affordable kill rights on them, as a mark of pride. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
312
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 11:28:58 -
[234] - Quote
Lisbeth Riraille wrote:Brokk Witgenstein wrote:FYI: The only thing hiding behind concord is the bumper, because he doesn't actually aggress.
The loot truck? Goes suspect. The gankalysts? Are -5 or worse and can be shot on sight. the blapthrashers sitting at gates with positive sec status .... gee, might it be they're waiting for criminals to show up? Those are the ANTIgankers you f*%$*T******** dimw*****
I repeat my question: which criminals are protected by concord? The ones who rely on Concorde as enablers for their crimes, of course. James and his roleplay group in CODE won't try it in null because there's no concorde to protect them from being killed in their shieldless cats before they can start roleplaying.
This is true- their "tactics" wouldn't work at all. Then again, nullbears and miners are capable of warping off when something dangerous approaches; nobody in his right mind flies regular freighters or Orcas over there because everyone is KOS.
The long and short: highsec wouldn't be highsec without concord. The targets would be different, and CODE could fly any ship they choose rather than cheap suicide DPS.
Whether CODE pilots would live up to null standards or not is .....questionable. But certainly not impossible. I presume? We'll never know I guess. It's obvious they like the target rich environment and easy logistics in highsec - otherwise they'd have gone null a long time ago. |
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron
1769
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 11:49:01 -
[235] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:March rabbit wrote:Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Geronimo McVain wrote:The problem is not the ganking but that ALSO the criminals are protected by CONCORD.
How do you figure that? try to shoot that 'peaceful' destroyer sitting on gates waiting for pod to kill. You will find new mechanics for you: concord. And it does not help if you digged killboard and found out that this pilot kills 10 pod each day. He is protected until he aggressed. CCP spent a lot of effort designing the security status system which really does make repeat offenders 'outlaws' quite quickly and thus free-to-shoot. I recently had occasion to train up some new ganking alts, and within a day or two of enforcing the Code they were free to shoot and being chased by the faction police. Podding miners is especially punitive although still so satisfying one cannot help but do it and take the security status hit. google: eve online tag for security
Black Pedro wrote: If that doesn't work (or you tag up), a single act of highsec piracy still puts you at risk by giving a trade-able killright to your victim that also can 'turn off' CONCORD making you free-to-shoot.
what does killright worth if ganker alt is in space only between undocking and getting concordokken? And even if you can catch him with open killright it flies couple ISK ship or empty pod?
Again: learn to the game mechanics.
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Areen Sassel
106
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 12:39:02 -
[236] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Black Pedro wrote: Podding miners is especially punitive although still so satisfying one cannot help but do it and take the security status hit.
google: eve online tag for security Read what you're replying to. You literally quoted Black Pedro mentioning tags eight words after you supposed he didn't know about them.
March rabbit wrote:Black Pedro wrote: If that doesn't work (or you tag up), a single act of highsec piracy still puts you at risk by giving a trade-able killright to your victim that also can 'turn off' CONCORD making you free-to-shoot.
what does killright worth if ganker alt is in space only between undocking and getting concordokken? It's hardly remarkable that it's hard to shoot someone who's willing to spend almost no time in space, but you started by complaining about the unshootability of a destroyer sitting on a gate. |
Lisbeth Riraille
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
19
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 13:07:03 -
[237] - Quote
So far in this bout of forum pvp, by my count, gankers are ahead of carebears, but there's just 2 points in it.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26158
|
Posted - 2016.05.23 14:37:54 -
[238] - Quote
Geronimo McVain wrote:The problem is not the ganking but that ALSO the criminals are protected by CONCORD.
...I'm in a BS full with Deadspace modules to the brim and some lousy catalyst with the most notorious ganker flys by. What do you do? Do you engage him and loose you blinky ship to concord or do you just leave him alone?
Really? Are you truly so ignorant of the crimewatch mechanic, the security status mechanic and how flagging works, that you believe this? Gankers, especially those who do it regularly receive no protection from Concord, they're generally flagged either as criminals or as outlaws, both of which mean you can shoot them in the face and Concord won't bat an eyelid or leave the doughnut stall.
If they're notorious gankers they generally have a sec status that reflects that; which means, as above, you can shoot them in the face without intervention from Concord.
March rabbit wrote:try to shoot that 'peaceful' destroyer sitting on gates waiting for pod to kill. You will find new mechanics for you: concord. And it does not help if you digged killboard and found out that this pilot kills 10 pod each day. He is protected until he aggressed. You should know better, if he kills 10 unflagged pods a day his sec status is pretty much fixed at -10, no matter how many tags get bought and redeemed.
Lisbeth Riraille wrote:CODE says 'defend yourselves, miners!', hides behind skirts of Concorde. How? Once they hit a certain sec status Concord don't give two tosses if you shoot them in the face; most gankers wear their low sec status as a badge of honour in my experience. Their PvE and other alts, while Concord will visit retribution upon whomever attacks them without the appropriate flags, the players themselves will probably be taking active steps to avoid predators and thus don't tend to get caught; gankers know what it takes not to be ganked, they follow their own advice.
Lisbeth Riraille wrote:The ones who rely on Concorde as enablers for their crimes, of course. James and his roleplay group in CODE won't try it in null because there's no concorde to protect them from being killed in their shieldless cats before they can start roleplaying. For Concord to be enablers they would have to be that which makes ganking possible; which they are not as ganking also happens in places where Concord don't exist. The enablers of ganking are CCP, they put in place the basic gameplay mechanic that allows you to shoot anybody in the face, at any time, anywhere in space (The Martini Option?)
You're correct in that their hisec ganking tactics are extremely unlikely to work in nullsec; rumour has it that they often go to low and null on roams albeit it using a different play-book, where they shoot at stuff that (gasp) shoots back.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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Lucas Kell
Evolution. SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7760
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Posted - 2016.05.23 14:47:20 -
[239] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:[Really? Are you truly so ignorant of the crimewatch mechanic, the security status mechanic and how flagging works, that you believe this? Gankers, especially those who do it regularly receive no protection from Concord, they're generally flagged either as criminals or as outlaws, both of which mean you can shoot them in the face and Concord won't bat an eyelid or leave the doughnut stall. They also fly around in empty pods unless they are on a gank at which point they will be very difficult to catch even if you know where they are going.
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:How? Once they hit a certain sec status Concord don't give two tosses if you shoot them in the face; most gankers wear their low sec status as a badge of honour in my experience. Their PvE and other alts, while Concord will visit retribution upon whomever attacks them without the appropriate flags, the players themselves will probably be taking active steps to avoid predators and thus don't tend to get caught; gankers know what it takes not to be ganked, they follow their own advice. How do gankers move all of their gank ships around to staging systems? Or move their loot to somewhere to sell? Or scout out a warp in for their gank ship? Or bump a freighter? You're pretending the only character used by a ganker is the gank alt itself, and you know this is generally false.
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
26159
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Posted - 2016.05.23 15:25:20 -
[240] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:[Really? Are you truly so ignorant of the crimewatch mechanic, the security status mechanic and how flagging works, that you believe this? Gankers, especially those who do it regularly receive no protection from Concord, they're generally flagged either as criminals or as outlaws, both of which mean you can shoot them in the face and Concord won't bat an eyelid or leave the doughnut stall. They also fly around in empty pods unless they are on a gank at which point they will be very difficult to catch even if you know where they are going. That's not hiding behind Concord though is it? That's using game mechanics such as clones and bookmarks to minimise risk.
Quote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:How? Once they hit a certain sec status Concord don't give two tosses if you shoot them in the face; most gankers wear their low sec status as a badge of honour in my experience. Their PvE and other alts, while Concord will visit retribution upon whomever attacks them without the appropriate flags, the players themselves will probably be taking active steps to avoid predators and thus don't tend to get caught; gankers know what it takes not to be ganked, they follow their own advice. How do gankers move all of their gank ships around to staging systems? Or move their loot to somewhere to sell? Or scout out a warp in for their gank ship? Or bump a freighter? You're pretending the only character used by a ganker is the gank alt itself, and you know this is generally false. I specifically mentioned alts, I've underlined it in the quote above especially for you as you appear to have blithely replied to my post without actually reading it.
Logistics wise, 3rd parties or unassociated alts are used... duh.
Civilized behaviour is knowing that violence is barbaric, but paying other people to do it is business.
Nil mortifi sine lucre.
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