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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
evistin
Multiverse Corporation
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Posted - 2007.02.24 02:55:00 -
[1]
I am told FinFleet is pursing a case against GoonSwarm in the real world over certain in game actions.
I am also its also creates super fast mod reaction time.
Could someone who is aware of some of the details contact me, I would like to research the details up a bit.
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Management and Leadership |
Minigin
Caldari Zephyr Enterprises Inc. Astral Wolves
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Posted - 2007.02.24 02:57:00 -
[2]
that would be really wierd if they have >_>
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Zimi Vlasic
F.R.E.E. Explorer EVE Animal Control
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Posted - 2007.02.24 02:58:00 -
[3]
Just listen for the sound of a huge baby crying.
You'll find your answers there.
Find Roid, Examine, and Excavate Explorer Proud member of the Customer Service Coalition. |
dfgdfgerdv
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Posted - 2007.02.24 02:58:00 -
[4]
Originally by: evistin I am told FinFleet is pursing a case against GoonSwarm in the real world over certain out of game actions.
I am also its also creates super fast mod reaction time.
Could someone who is aware of some of the details contact me, I would like to research the details up a bit.
There fixed it for you..
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munchy
Prison Break Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.24 03:02:00 -
[5]
if this is true, finfleet, you are about to kill eve. if you win a court case against GS you will encourage such actions elsewhere in game, how long will it be before eve lawsuits are commonplace?
you better have a good reason, because no one did this to bob, and i doubt goonswarm have even come close to what they did. fight your battles with guns and missles, not lawyers and judges. ---
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Kyguard
Fire Mandrill Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.24 03:04:00 -
[6]
Yeah sadly it's true.
And even if it isn't and Finfleet is bluffing, it's still sad. -
WeComeInPeace Video |
Amerame
Section XIII
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Posted - 2007.02.24 03:09:00 -
[7]
Though LV had hit the bottom ? Don't worry, they're digging.
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Gneeznow
Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.02.24 03:09:00 -
[8]
Apparently its true
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vile56
Nubs. Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.02.24 03:11:00 -
[9]
for?
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Tyrrax Thorrk
Amarr Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.02.24 03:11:00 -
[10]
rofl ;P
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Dao 2
The Scope
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Posted - 2007.02.24 03:13:00 -
[11]
what the hell are they accussing them of o_0
how does that even work actually :|
a case for a game that u dont own and have no assets in (technically? ;p) ------------------------------------------------ NEWLY ADDED ON 1/19 (though applies to all posts before ;p)
the usual "I don't represent my corp or alliance" and stuffs like that
Also the gal |
Graalum
Foundation R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.02.24 03:14:00 -
[12]
roflcoptor.
Completely pathetic. If this is true Finfleet should be ashamed, although its way to absurd for me to consider realistic.
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Audri Fisher
Caldari The Keep THE R0CK
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Posted - 2007.02.24 03:15:00 -
[13]
Lame.
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Gneeznow
Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.02.24 03:15:00 -
[14]
For spying, It was threatened on an open teamspeak from what i hear, it was just a threat who knows if its being carried out though ....
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HankMurphy
Minmatar Pelennor Swarm R i s e
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Posted - 2007.02.24 03:16:00 -
[15]
lol
are you on LSD? RL lawsuits for ingame actions?
Any lawyer worth paying would laugh you out of his office. Any lawyer that would take you seriously probably hasn't won a court case in years.
------------------------ From here on out i'm pretty sure CAOD forums = Jerry Springer
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Foopadoo
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Posted - 2007.02.24 03:23:00 -
[16]
Hell hath no fury like an internet nerd scorned.
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evistin
Multiverse Corporation
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Posted - 2007.02.24 03:33:00 -
[17]
Well, consider it this way, How do you deal with spies? -----------
Management and Leadership |
Gneeznow
Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.02.24 03:36:00 -
[18]
Originally by: evistin Well, consider it this way, How do you deal with spies?
well for a start, keep it in game and in context, not threaten them with legal action and whatnot.
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Red Crown
Kudzu Collective
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Posted - 2007.02.24 03:36:00 -
[19]
I hear that they were but have no confirmation or recent information.
@ the <RISE> guy who said you'd get laughed out of your office - wrong. When money is to be made, anything can happen.
The gist of it was that a GS guy was caught spying in FinFleet and some obscure Fin law protects "Confidential important information" and they (or so it is said) were going to act on that. "EVE is the worst MMORPG. Except for all the other ones."
[KUDZU] = Coalition. |
Audri Fisher
Caldari The Keep THE R0CK
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Posted - 2007.02.24 03:41:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Red Crown I hear that they were but have no confirmation or recent information.
@ the <RISE> guy who said you'd get laughed out of your office - wrong. When money is to be made, anything can happen.
The gist of it was that a GS guy was caught spying in FinFleet and some obscure Fin law protects "Confidential important information" and they (or so it is said) were going to act on that.
Why does the Finland law apply? I don't see the juristiction here.
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Jane Spondogolo
NoobWaffe
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Posted - 2007.02.24 03:53:00 -
[21]
Ok, they seem to of dropped the bizare dev-fleet nonsense after kieron proved it false, and now are starting on suing folks
Spaceships are serious business folks!
I have a feeling that Remedial and Mittani , both lawyers, are not in the slightest bit worried.
Also, if you want to sue people for beating you at internet space ships , its not a lawyer you need, its a psychiatrist
By the way, to sue in any sort of meaningful way, you'd have to show a material loss. Losing at an internet space game isnt a loss. Sure do hope nobodys been gold farming back there in omist.
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Larkonis Trassler
g guild
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Posted - 2007.02.24 03:58:00 -
[22]
LOL @ Internets lawsuits
------------ Request for Privateer Sticky! Keep the forums clean! http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a |
Sigmorhair
Gallente Eisenmetal
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Posted - 2007.02.24 03:59:00 -
[23]
Comedy gold. People in Finland threatening to sue people in the US for blowing up internet space ships on a server in Iceland.
Good luck with that. Somehow I doubt that a soliciter has even been retained yet, talk about a waste of time.
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Helganstandt
Finis Lumen
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Posted - 2007.02.24 04:02:00 -
[24]
I'm guessing if anything this was just said in the heat of anger or something. I'd personally give no weight to it, as it's simply not rational to waste energy and resources pursuing.
There's no way you can sue someone for something that isn't legally yours. If FinFleet wants to sue CCP for whatever, that's all they would be able to do (and that would still be a longshot), but they can't sue Goonfleet unless they did something damaging OUT of game.
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Cattraknoff
Caldari Black Lance Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.02.24 04:09:00 -
[25]
Nice, a new way to win wars. Now we can fight in courts of law rather than in space.
Whoever sues first wins?
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Stoffer Ninjapirate
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.02.24 04:11:00 -
[26]
They are suing me personally for placing an alt in their corp, but it is not my impression that they are suing GoonSwarm because of this.
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Jane Spondogolo
NoobWaffe
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Posted - 2007.02.24 04:15:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Stoffer Ninjapirate They are suing me personally for placing an alt in their corp, but it is not my impression that they are suing GoonSwarm because of this.
Funny thing about all this , is its not there corp. All the corps ultimately belong, as with all ingame 'assets' to CCP. Since they allowed you to join, even if it was under false pretences (which is allowed in the game), you have done no harm. I'd be surprised if the judge even would hear such an absurd case.
I wonder if finnland has vexatious litigation laws.
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crudhunch
Templars of Space CORE.
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Posted - 2007.02.24 04:19:00 -
[28]
Edited by: crudhunch on 24/02/2007 04:18:46 ---Edit: Stoffer Ninjapirate posted and answer my question----
Anyway, I am not a lawyer but I know quite a few of the people who I have run across during my time playing this game are. IĘd be extremely careful who you are trying to sue in this game, as you never really know what the other players do in RL.
Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed filesize of 24000 bytes -Oiri Yusko ([email protected]) |
Heldane
Amarr 1st Praetorian Guard Vigilia Valeria
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Posted - 2007.02.24 04:23:00 -
[29]
This is quite possibly the stupidest, and at the same time most awesome thing I have ever heard.
To think that these people take it so seriously as to even consider the notion of sueing a person over something that happened in a game is just insane on some level.
I think these fellows need to take a break from playing for a bit and go outside.
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Minigin
Caldari Zephyr Enterprises Inc. Astral Wolves
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Posted - 2007.02.24 04:27:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Stoffer Ninjapirate They are suing me personally for placing an alt in their corp, but it is not my impression that they are suing GoonSwarm because of this.
so does anyone know of any LV or BoB spys that where recently active? *COUGH*
this is just soooooo sad... even though im pretty anti spy's i think you cant take RL legal action over it...
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Minigin
Caldari Zephyr Enterprises Inc. Astral Wolves
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Posted - 2007.02.24 04:28:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Heldane This is quite possibly the stupidest, and at the same time most awesome thing I have ever heard.
To think that these people take it so seriously as to even consider the notion of sueing a person over something that happened in a game is just insane on some level.
I think these fellows need to take a break from playing for a bit and go outside.
careful what you say >_> they may sue you too.
i need some RL t2 tinfoil hats for this **** >_>
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evistin
Multiverse Corporation
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Posted - 2007.02.24 04:32:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Heldane This is quite possibly the stupidest, and at the same time most awesome thing I have ever heard.
To think that these people take it so seriously as to even consider the notion of sueing a person over something that happened in a game is just insane on some level.
I think these fellows need to take a break from playing for a bit and go outside.
As long as there is Real money to be made or lost they will be serious. Football, Soccer, Basket ball all sports with a very serious dangers on spying.
You can account, the lost in eve-online to man hours lost and work from there. -----------
Management and Leadership |
Duke Grail
Darkblade Technologies Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.02.24 04:51:00 -
[33]
Originally by: evistin
Originally by: Heldane This is quite possibly the stupidest, and at the same time most awesome thing I have ever heard.
To think that these people take it so seriously as to even consider the notion of sueing a person over something that happened in a game is just insane on some level.
I think these fellows need to take a break from playing for a bit and go outside.
As long as there is Real money to be made or lost they will be serious. Football, Soccer, Basket ball all sports with a very serious dangers on spying.
You can account, the lost in eve-online to man hours lost and work from there.
But you can't put a monatary value on the time spent in eve.
In Real life situations, a person stands to lose "REAL LIFE CURRENCY" but in eve, according to the EULA, CCP's "Internet Space Game Character" that you control loses "Internet Space Game currency", There is no value to time that is spent in eve because there is no money to be made in eve (according to the rules). If this lawsuit is taken seriously than maybe CCP should just make a separate server for the Fin's to play on like the Chinese server since they have to play by different rules than the rest of us.
For real people, i can't believe you're serious.
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Mimiru
Gallente BIG Advanced Assault Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.02.24 04:52:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Mimiru on 24/02/2007 04:49:15 Ragnar joined finfleet?
I never thought Shadow_Stalker was the goonish type
/me puts on magic hat ---------
Join my corp! shoot people! |
Jane Spondogolo
NoobWaffe
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Posted - 2007.02.24 05:01:00 -
[35]
Originally by: evistin
Originally by: Heldane This is quite possibly the stupidest, and at the same time most awesome thing I have ever heard.
To think that these people take it so seriously as to even consider the notion of sueing a person over something that happened in a game is just insane on some level.
I think these fellows need to take a break from playing for a bit and go outside.
As long as there is Real money to be made or lost they will be serious. Football, Soccer, Basket ball all sports with a very serious dangers on spying.
You can account, the lost in eve-online to man hours lost and work from there.
You can also account man hours for a game of chess. Can I sue people for losing at chess. Because I suck at chess, and theres money to be made!
If they are refering to isk->RL dollar conversions, then implied but not stated is the assumption that finnfleet must be gold farming or selling characters. If thats the case, then perhaps CCP ought be doing some investigating here, because that is not something thats particularly acceptable under the EULA. And they've specifically stated you are NOT allowed to sell CCP's property (*everything* ingame, including your characters belong to CCP, not you).
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Ademius Knortak
A.W.M Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.02.24 05:18:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Jane Spondogolo
You can also account man hours for a game of chess. Can I sue people for losing at chess. Because I suck at chess, and theres money to be made!
I doubt that. You knew the risks and joined on your own. Same goes for EvE -> your own fault if you are beaten with game mechanics. No court in this world will do more then laugh about such cases. If it is about meta gaming (spying), your out of luck as well as long as the information was gotten trough social engineering (as that should be seen as in-game) not violation of RL property etc like hacking.
Whatever it is
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Kael Zeratul
The Huns Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.02.24 05:27:00 -
[37]
One of the dumbest things I have seen on the internet in my life. Thanks for making my week.
(In be for lock) Sig coming soon to a forum near you |
Bienurdau Hywoaf
Minmatar Matari Holo News Network
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Posted - 2007.02.24 05:28:00 -
[38]
Weird
Unless you can invalidate the EULA though, I don't see any way this case could proceed.
Its just a waste of taxpayers money no matter which country such a suit is brought.
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patteSatan
Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.02.24 05:40:00 -
[39]
It's only CCP that can invalidate the EULA, so good job LV at making you look more stupid than ever.
<br> ...you women are creepy, but amusing as hell.
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Bienurdau Hywoaf
Minmatar Matari Holo News Network
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Posted - 2007.02.24 05:46:00 -
[40]
Originally by: patteSatan It's only CCP that can invalidate the EULA, so good job LV at making you look more stupid than ever.
No EULA has withstood US or European courts if you look at case law. It is a dangerous thing to try to invalidate it though because you open up a whole can of worms.
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BlackHorizon
Caldari Umbra Congregatio Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.02.24 05:53:00 -
[41]
Edited by: BlackHorizon on 24/02/2007 05:50:19 Just give the Finish a separate cluster like the chinese if this lawsuit has legal merit in Finland.
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Shamus Kain
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Posted - 2007.02.24 05:53:00 -
[42]
Wow ! are my eyes bleeding? I didn't read anything except the first post and all the alliances that posted on this thread, but it looks more like AAA IAC and Pandemic Legion are all announcing their plan for a lawsuit!
Shamus
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FowlPlayChiken
Sharks With Frickin' Laser Beams Mercenary Coalition
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Posted - 2007.02.24 05:56:00 -
[43]
the only lawsuit worthy actions ive seen in eve would be hacking. hacking anything from ts to forums is a federal offensive in teh US, and international law also forbids it.
Just podded this sig, now where is my toy? - Wrangler
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patteSatan
Celtic Anarchy Anarchy Empire
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Posted - 2007.02.24 06:03:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Bienurdau Hywoaf
Originally by: patteSatan It's only CCP that can invalidate the EULA, so good job LV at making you look more stupid than ever.
No EULA has withstood US or European courts if you look at case law. It is a dangerous thing to try to invalidate it though because you open up a whole can of worms.
I know, but I think you also know what I meant.
<br> ...you women are creepy, but amusing as hell.
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PDoggy
Minmatar Valid Character Corporation
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Posted - 2007.02.24 06:24:00 -
[45]
Quote:
Well guys, I guess it's probably jailtime for me.
It seems that by doing EVE spying for goonfleet, I have violated numerous serious and important laws in the state of Finland, and I might be whipped publically and/or given a lethal injection.
I had a character in Finfleet (LV) for about two months while we were at war with the Soco. At some point in December, I was caught and they promised severe e-legal e-consequences. At the time I laughed (I still do), and didn't really think they were serious.
At some point during a Burn Eden TS session during downtime, a LV member claimed that they had actually reported me to the police, for reading their forums (which they invited me to join).
Curious if I was facing e-peril for my e-spying, I contacted a FinFleet member who had filed the complaint with the local police.
It appears that on December 14th, Boogey from FinFleet reported me to local autorities, with board logs and entries, for stealing vital and secret ingame information. They are currently investigating, and I anxiously await Finnish agents breaking into my appartment, drugging me and dragging me to Finland for trials and torture.
I told him that if it ever came to actually going to court, I would not take advantage of the primitive Finnish system that allows you to be conviced in absentia, but cancel whatever I was doing to go to Finland. I also told him that if I ever came to Finland for the e-atrocities I've commited, I expected FinFleet to come drinking with me. He did not respond to this and this caused my morale to go down by atleast four points. Reporting me to the police is fine, but not wanting to get wasted with me is taking the game a bit too seriously.
Regardless, I'm eagerly awaiting Finnish e-laywers to contact me about my e-crimes, and I'm hoping it's soon, because I'm running out of patience, and planning a vacation to Finland requires some notice for me.
Basically, the premise is that there is a Finnish that protects information on the internet, and since the server is in Finland, and the stuff on the board is private, they claim that what I did was illegal.
I supposed I ought to get an e-laywer.
There are at least five lawyers on the GoonSwarm directorate and a few more in law school - Wait for your email, do not put it back - Ductoris |
Oxana Ptotemkish
Caldari GeoTech Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.24 06:30:00 -
[46]
Bah gotta take the kid to the park--so haven't read 100% of the thread . . .
BUT if this is true . . .
1. It'll make some news somewhere like mmorpg.com and perhaps Jerry Springer
2. It sounds a bit nuts.
3. Can D2 hire FinFleets lawyers to sue for a new Titan 'cos of the BoB spy?
4. Can I get my Buddhist meditation centre to contact Finfleet to give them chill out tips?
Yours in insanity,
Oxana
"The best education consists in immunizing people against systematic attempts at education."-- Paul Feyerabend |
Vodka Neat
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.02.24 06:44:00 -
[47]
Originally by: FowlPlayChiken the only lawsuit worthy actions ive seen in eve would be hacking. hacking anything from ts to forums is a federal offensive in teh US, and international law also forbids it.
Thats where your right. I believe that they would sue for "hacking" their TS or Forum since they got access under false identifacation.
Since that has nothing to do with CCP and they own the rights to the TS or Forum and both services cost money that is how they would show a loss of both actual (bandwidth, user licences) and intelectual (classified information, etc.)I don't think it is right but they might have a leg to stand on.
-Why don't the NPC pilots have pods?- |
Bienurdau Hywoaf
Minmatar Matari Holo News Network
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Posted - 2007.02.24 06:55:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Vodka Neat
Originally by: FowlPlayChiken the only lawsuit worthy actions ive seen in eve would be hacking. hacking anything from ts to forums is a federal offensive in teh US, and international law also forbids it.
Thats where your right. I believe that they would sue for "hacking" their TS or Forum since they got access under false identifacation.
Since that has nothing to do with CCP and they own the rights to the TS or Forum and both services cost money that is how they would show a loss of both actual (bandwidth, user licences) and intelectual (classified information, etc.)I don't think it is right but they might have a leg to stand on.
Was the character in question a member of LV. If so they don't really have a leg to stand on. He would have applied to the teamspeak as a member of LV, and been accepted because he was a member of LV.
Otherwise BoB and LV themselves would be liable for a great deal of such actions in the past....
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Sarah Meiskin
Fatalix Inc. Schism.
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Posted - 2007.02.24 07:15:00 -
[49]
RL Lawsuits over Internetz... Been there!
An unnamed person in my corp, [FXI] at the time of this post, in another MMO a while back faced charges by one of the GM's of the game IRL for Harrassment because he created a YTMND of the person after they'd posted their RL picture on the forums. He was later forced to delete the YTMND from Legal Pressure :\
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Ace Frehley
Minmatar Black Lance Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.02.24 07:32:00 -
[50]
hahahahaa hohohohohohohoh hehehehehehehe hihihihihihihihihi..
Oki just cuz he says and threaten with something, does it acctully mean he will do it?? Stop listen to everything and think... I wouner what the world would look if everything said or written in this game come true....
Girljerms is more lethal then a fleet of 1000 Tempests Yeah I¦m nude, I¦m a swede and I¦m armed with bad jokes
[url="http://www. |
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Uinen
Amarr Backup Squad
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Posted - 2007.02.24 07:33:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Sigmorhair Comedy gold. People in Finland threatening to sue people in the US for blowing up internet space ships on a server in Iceland.
ZOMG YOU WIN THIS THREAD SO FAR!
But seriously, how lov LV can go? I know goons are changing ppl in this game. Some players hate goons after trying to kill them for so long. It happened before its now happening to LV.
Go goons, kill bob fanboys.
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Don Yokushi
Kudzu Collective
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Posted - 2007.02.24 07:36:00 -
[52]
Old news.
http://www.kugutsumen.com/showthread.php?t=109
I know some people on here probably don't like kugutsumen, but there's a lot of info about the issue on that page. As in, pretty much everything you would want or need to know.
Haven't seen anything since though, so I'm figuring it's pretty much dead. Then again, who knows. Maybe in a year from now we'll hear the Finnish government demanding changes to international law against issues like this.
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Farham
Gallente AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2007.02.24 07:38:00 -
[53]
Quote: are you on LSD? RL lawsuits for ingame actions?
Just to be clear, Team Speak servers and Forum hosts are OUT of game entities. I have no idea what this particular thread is about but I can see someone who has the appropriate backround in being able to ID people who "gain access" through illegal manners to said TS or Forum entities....having a case in "the real world".
In fact, if you are shrewd and use people in your corp to pursue those charges in many countries due to your alliance/corporations population you just might be able to get civil or even criminal charges levied against some of the actions that are rumored to have taken place in EVE recently.
More than one country in the EU and the U.S. have laws on the books about such "illegal entry".
If the right "buzz words" are used in the complaint all sorts of clandestine governmental agencies are easily brought into the matter.
Spying in game is one thing, hacking PHP vulnerabilities on out of game message boards is entirely different.
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SpaceMonkey
Gallente DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.24 07:57:00 -
[54]
Get f00kin life.... seriously.
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Xendie
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.02.24 08:06:00 -
[55]
as far as i know about the finfleet thing is that it is not a "lawsuit" as americans think, it is a criminal charge filed by a webserver/teamspeak server owner over a pretexting incident wich is regarded as a criminal act in finland as it is in most european countries wich has computer laws. the webserver/teamspeak owner had his servers located on finish soil thus they fall under finish law. even though the perpetrator lives in denmark he can be legally tried and convicted since in the european union the police and court systems work together to a certain degree when it comes to crimes that involves people involved in computer crimes and crimes that intersects the different countries borders. it may take some time for it to be sorted but he could technically be sent to prison or face heavy fines for his pretexting crimes.
Originally by: "darth solo" bad men came, bad men didnt go home, bad men left containers.
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MegabitOne
Caldari The Black Ops
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Posted - 2007.02.24 08:07:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Duke Grail
But you can't put a monatary value on the time spent in eve.
In Real life situations, a person stands to lose "REAL LIFE CURRENCY" but in eve, according to the EULA, CCP's "Internet Space Game Character" that you control loses "Internet Space Game currency", There is no value to time that is spent in eve because there is no money to be made in eve (according to the rules). If this lawsuit is taken seriously than maybe CCP should just make a separate server for the Fin's to play on like the Chinese server since they have to play by different rules than the rest of us.
Well, I think you could convert Isk to RL currencies. Just have a look at (illegal) 1b Isk for 120$ offers on the internet.
So if you just lost a 5b ship, that would be a loss of $600 irl. Cos if you sold the ship, you would have 5b and if you sold that on the internet, you'ld have $600.
Imagine that FF was being slaughtered because GS had inside intel from one of their spies in FF and FF lost say 15b in ships, mods, poses etc. That would be a whopping $1800. People start lawsuits for much less than that!
Also, the (legit) way of switching ingame Isk for a gaming card is a way of calculating the worth of Isk in dollars.
But the lawsuit in itself is ridiculous of course... --- I'm not as bad-ass as some of my corp mates, but I'll pwn you anyway!
-= In God we trust, all the others pay cash =- |
Dao 2
The Scope
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Posted - 2007.02.24 08:09:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Dao 2 on 24/02/2007 08:06:40 Edited by: Dao 2 on 24/02/2007 08:06:04 plz plz post the char name of the guy that filed it ;p
and for the person that did, plz go cancel all ur accounts
then go infront of a mirror and slap urself repeatdly, and never sign up for or play eve again :|
yeah so what if it isnt lv or finfleet doing it as a group? kick the loser or be shamed with it
edit: on the legal side ;p im no lawyer but technically he stole no information since he was freely given access to the teamspeak server and forum and didnt "steal" it at all. isnt that right or something o_0?
edit: he probably didnt like he just didnt say that he had a char in gs? ;p ------------------------------------------------ NEWLY ADDED ON 1/19 (though applies to all posts before ;p)
the usual "I don't represent my corp or alliance" and stuffs like that
Also the gal |
Watauga
Minmatar Imperial Guardians
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Posted - 2007.02.24 08:15:00 -
[58]
Just assuming for a moment that the case were to be heard, who would you serve a subpoena to? You would have to have a real name and a real address. Unless that is public knowledge, you most likely have to go through CCP and that brings up privacy and First Amendment(US Constitution) issues. That litigation alone would be very expensive and possibly attract some RL international press.
Sig removed. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] with a link to your signature. - Elmo Pug
http://eve-files.com/dl/87531 |
Klaaswitz
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Posted - 2007.02.24 08:24:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Klaaswitz on 24/02/2007 08:21:13 You hear that noise?
It's the sound of a 100.000 men sized community lolling.
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shaun 27
Phoenix Knights
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Posted - 2007.02.24 08:27:00 -
[60]
only got one thing to say about this is lol. i feel sry for pirates people may start sueing them because they lost ships :)
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Tetsujin
Caldari Band of Brosefs
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Posted - 2007.02.24 08:36:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Ace Frehley hahahahaa hohohohohohohoh hehehehehehehe hihihihihihihihihi..
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Dao 2
The Scope
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Posted - 2007.02.24 08:39:00 -
[62]
Originally by: MegabitOne
Originally by: Duke Grail
But you can't put a monatary value on the time spent in eve.
In Real life situations, a person stands to lose "REAL LIFE CURRENCY" but in eve, according to the EULA, CCP's "Internet Space Game Character" that you control loses "Internet Space Game currency", There is no value to time that is spent in eve because there is no money to be made in eve (according to the rules). If this lawsuit is taken seriously than maybe CCP should just make a separate server for the Fin's to play on like the Chinese server since they have to play by different rules than the rest of us.
Well, I think you could convert Isk to RL currencies. Just have a look at (illegal) 1b Isk for 120$ offers on the internet.
So if you just lost a 5b ship, that would be a loss of $600 irl. Cos if you sold the ship, you would have 5b and if you sold that on the internet, you'ld have $600.
Imagine that FF was being slaughtered because GS had inside intel from one of their spies in FF and FF lost say 15b in ships, mods, poses etc. That would be a whopping $1800. People start lawsuits for much less than that!
Also, the (legit) way of switching ingame Isk for a gaming card is a way of calculating the worth of Isk in dollars.
But the lawsuit in itself is ridiculous of course...
yes but u dont own said **** ;p all items are the propery of ccp ;p u really own nothing in the game ;p its all theirs according to the eula. ------------------------------------------------ NEWLY ADDED ON 1/19 (though applies to all posts before ;p)
the usual "I don't represent my corp or alliance" and stuffs like that
Also the gal |
Xendie
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.02.24 08:46:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Watauga Just assuming for a moment that the case were to be heard, who would you serve a subpoena to? You would have to have a real name and a real address. Unless that is public knowledge, you most likely have to go through CCP and that brings up privacy and First Amendment(US Constitution) issues. That litigation alone would be very expensive and possibly attract some RL international press.
the american first amendment dont give ppl the right to commit crimes and especially not in other countries. it gives you the right to free speach iirc in the united states of america.
when you lets say use a forum on a webserver located in lets say in iceland your right to free speach isnt worth anything as you have to abide by the rules set by the webserver and forum owner and the laws of that country. and the person would be contacted and notified/arrested(if the crime is severe) by his country's law enforcement on behalf of his justice system that works together on international crimes with other countries law enforment agencies. the wheels of justice isnt the fastest as you know but they usually get to the end of the pile sometime. the police in both countries would assist eachother and there are certain procedures that are in place for international cooperation between law enforcements.
Originally by: "darth solo" bad men came, bad men didnt go home, bad men left containers.
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Sarah Meiskin
Fatalix Inc. Schism.
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Posted - 2007.02.24 08:49:00 -
[64]
Originally by: shaun 27 only got one thing to say about this is lol. i feel sry for pirates people may start sueing them because they lost ships :)
Sadly, in America, that could be possible. Been trying to keep up with this one bill being tossed through senate that would allow the Government to allow taxing of persons for ownership of Digital Property, directed towards major MMO's like WoW and... that... one I can't remember now (3am for me ok :p ) Where you can make stuff and sell it IG and cash out the IG Credits for RL moniez or something... (Of course it's a rare possibility of such a thing being passed, but it IS America, who knows wtf could happen) I'm too lazy to find linkage of the sorts, again, 3am >.>
Maybe even in the future, World Leaders will get so into EVE that Podding another World Leader out of his Shuttle could mean a Declaration of War IRL :p
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Tetsujin
Caldari Band of Brosefs
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Posted - 2007.02.24 08:51:00 -
[65]
I don't know if you guys saw this or not so here it is again just for reference:
ahahahahahahaha
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Helganstandt
Finis Lumen
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Posted - 2007.02.24 08:53:00 -
[66]
I'm beginning to worry about you guys, it almost seems as if some of you are taking this seriously. Where has common sense gone these days...
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Xendie
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.02.24 09:13:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Helganstandt I'm beginning to worry about you guys, it almost seems as if some of you are taking this seriously. Where has common sense gone these days...
they posted wrong information of what was going on and i just corrected them with a more accurate piece of information regarding the "finfleet" incident and the procedures that could/would take place.
Originally by: "darth solo" bad men came, bad men didnt go home, bad men left containers.
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Percival Diddly
Unscoped Myriad Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.24 09:20:00 -
[68]
Id love to see the Court TV on this one... _____________________________________________
http://www.myriadalliance.com/images/myriadpercy.png Signature filesize exceeds max limit of 24000 bytes. Mail us if you have questions -Eldo |
Gurgling CEO
Gurgleblaster Industries
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Posted - 2007.02.24 09:20:00 -
[69]
Originally by: BlackHorizon Edited by: BlackHorizon on 24/02/2007 05:50:19 Just give the Finish a separate cluster like the chinese if this lawsuit has legal merit in Finland.
Actually FinFleet havent been finnish only corp for a long time, so god knows who started this crap.
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Xendie
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.02.24 09:24:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Percival Diddly Id love to see the Court TV on this one...
once again a very american view wich has no relevance at all to what has happened as there are no americans involved and the webserver/teamspeak server was not under american jurisdiction.
Originally by: "darth solo" bad men came, bad men didnt go home, bad men left containers.
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Xendie
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.02.24 09:27:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Gurgling CEO
Originally by: BlackHorizon Edited by: BlackHorizon on 24/02/2007 05:50:19 Just give the Finish a separate cluster like the chinese if this lawsuit has legal merit in Finland.
Actually FinFleet havent been finnish only corp for a long time, so god knows who started this crap.
iirc the webserver/teamspeak server that was accessed illegally was in finland thus under the jurisdiction of finnish laws. doesnt matter if the members of the corp are 98% samoan or whatever.
and for blackhorizon, criminal charges not a lawsuit. big difference.
Originally by: "darth solo" bad men came, bad men didnt go home, bad men left containers.
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Stamm
Amarr Three Holdings Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.02.24 09:31:00 -
[72]
Your honour, the jury has reached a verdict. We find the defendant guilty of OMG hax0rz, however we find him not guilty on the charge of perverting the course of LVs demise. We therefor rule that he got his pod out.
In all seriousness, pretending to be someone you aren't and hearing information as a result is unlikely to be an international crime.
Couple of years back, the other half and I got bored with the pub we were in, and crashed a wedding reception, for a laugh. Cue us making up a pack of lies when people talked to us, and then hearing nonsense about the family we pretended vaguely to know.
I'm now worried FinFleet laywers are going to get me nailed for this. I may have been able to use the information about some cousin I forgots job in the states training kids how to play football for my own nefarious purposes.
Galaxian Recruitment Info |
ceaon
Gallente Porandor
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Posted - 2007.02.24 09:32:00 -
[73]
Edited by: ceaon on 24/02/2007 09:29:14 if forum/TS are hacked the police have to do the work if u give him access on forum/TS = 0 @@@@@@ @@@@@@ @@@@@@ @@@@@@
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Dopefish
Amarr Quad and Fish
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Posted - 2007.02.24 09:37:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Xendie
iirc the webserver/teamspeak server that was accessed illegally.
They invited a character in eve-online and the real person connected to this character is the same person who accessed finfleets servers. So how did he hack? They got exactly what they asked for.
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Percival Diddly
Unscoped Myriad Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.24 09:38:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Xendie
Originally by: Percival Diddly Id love to see the Court TV on this one...
once again a very american view wich has no relevance at all to what has happened as there are no americans involved and the webserver/teamspeak server was not under american jurisdiction.
wow talk about serious.
im not american im scottish it was ment as a joke obviously you cant see anything funny in this topic. this has all been taken way too seriously, it's a game. i know the story of this, it was about information posted from the FinFleet forums, which are hosted in finlanf with the correct disclaimers and agreements when signing up that yes, posting that information outside of the forums could be considerd illegal in finalnd.
but again all this is going too far, it's a damn game. |
Watauga
Minmatar Imperial Guardians
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Posted - 2007.02.24 10:01:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Xendie
the american first amendment dont give ppl the right to commit crimes and especially not in other countries. it gives you the right to free speach iirc in the united states of america.
I was using the First Amendment as an example to legal protection to rights of privacy. The First Amendment gives me more rights than free speech, by the way. Nowhere in the US Constitution goes it explicitly state a right to privacy but many legal scholars believe it is implied using the First and Fourth Amendments. I used the First Amendment as an example because The Bill of Rights weren't pulled out of a hat but are founded in English and European legal tradition, such as, the English Bill of Rights of 1689. Back to point I was trying to make about CCP, it would reasonable to assume that Iceland would have similar protections for privacy and CCP like many computer companies would fight to protect theirs. FYI, Iceland is a member of the Council of Europe and in 1950, it adopted the European Convention on Human Rights which gives at least some protection of privacy.
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Gungankllr
Caldari STK Scientific INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.02.24 10:03:00 -
[77]
I've always maintained a very dim view on spying in Eve, but I think taking somebody to court over an online game is an indicator that you might be a little bit too absorbed in the game and not in real life.
It's a game.
I can't believe that someone actually went to the police over this.
It's a game.
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Shadowsword
COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2007.02.24 10:06:00 -
[78]
From what I heard, the Finfleet guy who came up with that idiotic suing idea rest his case form the fact that some OOG forums (Finfleet corp forum?) require you to declare that your registration informations are exact, and a spy would obviously have to enter false informations.
Maybe it can stand in court, maybe not, but this is utterly pathetic regardless. To try to extract IRL vengeance for a wrong done in a game, because you can't avenge yourself in said game, is just mind-bogglingly pathetic. ------------------------------------------ Every ship has a base 60-70% resist against the primary damage type of the race that is the least able to vary it's damage types. |
elchief
FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.02.24 10:18:00 -
[79]
hey so bob must be sh*ttin it about now... d2 could sue em for the alt that got there titan AND the value of the titan in $$$ or isk ????? where will it end lol traders sueing pirates!!!!! http://members.aardvark.net.au/spacefrog/pics/elchief.jpg Signature filesize exceeds max limit of 24000 bytes. Mail us if you have questions -Eldo |
Xendie
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.02.24 10:21:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Shadowsword From what I heard, the Finfleet guy who came up with that idiotic suing idea rest his case form the fact that some OOG forums (Finfleet corp forum?) require you to declare that your registration informations are exact, and a spy would obviously have to enter false informations.
Maybe it can stand in court, maybe not, but this is utterly pathetic regardless. To try to extract IRL vengeance for a wrong done in a game, because you can't avenge yourself in said game, is just mind-bogglingly pathetic.
tbh i think its equally pathetic to cheat in a game using OOG tactics, metagaming tactics and exploits.
fact still remains that finfleet is perfectly within their legal rights to file criminal charges towards that person however lame and petty any of us think it is.
Originally by: "darth solo" bad men came, bad men didnt go home, bad men left containers.
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Xendie
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.02.24 10:24:00 -
[81]
Originally by: elchief hey so bob must be sh*ttin it about now... d2 could sue em for the alt that got there titan AND the value of the titan in $$$ or isk ????? where will it end lol traders sueing pirates!!!!!
no they cant as that loss was used by what i and many others consider exploiting gamemechanics to gain a illegal advantage ingame.
however CCP has considered it a legal and valid tactic wich leads everyone else to draw the conclusion that the rules regarding exploits can be bent quite alot before CCP can claim anything is a bannable offense for a "exploit"
note that this however might not be how CCP sees it but rather the general consensus of many eve players that i have talked to about it.
Originally by: "darth solo" bad men came, bad men didnt go home, bad men left containers.
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Itzena
Amarr OtakuDyne Corporation
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Posted - 2007.02.24 10:43:00 -
[82]
LV are doing their damned to avoid the "Dying with some dignity" thing, aren't they? -- I want my people to reclaim their rightful place in the galaxy... I want a rebirth of glory, a renaissance of power... I want us to be what we used to be. |
Xendie
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.02.24 10:47:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Itzena LV are doing their damned to avoid the "Dying with some dignity" thing, aren't they?
i wasnt aware that they had any
Originally by: "darth solo" bad men came, bad men didnt go home, bad men left containers.
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Yggdrassil
Amarrian Missionaires
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Posted - 2007.02.24 11:10:00 -
[84]
The whole criminal charges over TS/forum thingy DO sound way over the top.
That said - I almost hope it goes through... That would hopefully remove all TS spies for good in game.
Imagine - winning a battle due to superior in-game skills / tactics etc etc - instead of who got the best placed spy / is able to get the best intel from their spy on teamspeak....
That would really suck, wouldn't it?
Yggdrassil |
Farscape Hw
Black Omega Security Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.24 11:18:00 -
[85]
LOL this is completly STUPID.
and those of you who are taking this seriously are lifeless NERDS tbh
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Ronwe
Beagle Corp
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Posted - 2007.02.24 11:19:00 -
[86]
Actually you gyus deserve it
LIST OF SHAME!
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Royaldo
Old Farts
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Posted - 2007.02.24 11:29:00 -
[87]
yeah im sure the cops will waste time on this. spend money and manpower on this.
no actually, i dont.
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insanebe
Caldari soni Corp Imperium Sonorumance
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Posted - 2007.02.24 11:31:00 -
[88]
As far as i can tell the only way this will stand up is if someone can be found guilty of some sort of Fraud.... knowledge is power.... guard it well |
Nebuchadnezzar I
Shih Yang Tong
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Posted - 2007.02.24 11:34:00 -
[89]
I believe there also is a chatlog and or message from the finnish dude explaining it a bit more in detail.
I remember, without going back to check it, that from reading what he had to say he didnt think much of it himself, but that it rather was something he mentioned in connection with his work (or something) to a prosecutor (or whoever does the investigation in Finland) he happens to deal with through his work. And that this person then simply asked for logs and would "look into it" - i remember my clear understanding after readong the thread was that this wasnt very serious in any case.
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Voerung Gibson
Chaos Reborn
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Posted - 2007.02.24 11:46:00 -
[90]
If someone break the law outside the game its up to the authorities outside the game to deal with it. That is how the real world works - if you break the law, you get procecuted.
Lets keep EVE and real life apart shall we :-) |
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Coquillette
Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.02.24 11:50:00 -
[91]
Edited by: Coquillette on 24/02/2007 11:47:06
Quote: fact still remains that finfleet is perfectly within their legal rights to file criminal charges towards that person
Could you post here a (short) translation of the Finnish law you're referring to ?
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Kian Jorry
Black Omega Security Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.24 12:02:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Nebuchadnezzar I Edited by: Nebuchadnezzar I on 24/02/2007 11:41:29 Edited by: Nebuchadnezzar I on 24/02/2007 11:40:53 I believe there also is a chatlog and or message from the finnish dude explaining it a bit more in detail.
I remember, without going back to check it, that from reading what he had to say he didnt think much of it himself, but that it rather was something he mentioned in connection with his work (or something) to a prosecutor (or whoever does the investigation in Finland) he happens to deal with through his work. And that this person then simply asked for logs and would "look into it" - i remember my clear understanding after readong the thread was that this wasnt very serious in any case.
Edit: Reading the last bit: Xendie: You are making alot of assumptions regarding which rules apply when, when on the internet and when said use gives one sovereign entity the right to prosecute a citizen of another sovereign entity.
In other words, a maggot snitched.
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Midfrost
IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
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Posted - 2007.02.24 12:08:00 -
[93]
Lolers! That's almost as pathetic as me threatening that I will kick the living s**t out of RL BoB members in Gothenburg, Sweden!
Cheers! Fin-whoever you are... piles of pathetic excuses for dregg.
-Standard lines etc etc- »»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»»
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Algey
The Littlest Hobos
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Posted - 2007.02.24 12:15:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Watauga
Originally by: Xendie
the american first amendment dont give ppl the right to commit crimes and especially not in other countries. it gives you the right to free speach iirc in the united states of america.
I was using the First Amendment as an example to legal protection to rights of privacy. The First Amendment gives me more rights than free speech, by the way. Nowhere in the US Constitution goes it explicitly state a right to privacy but many legal scholars believe it is implied using the First and Fourth Amendments. I used the First Amendment as an example because The Bill of Rights weren't pulled out of a hat but are founded in English and European legal tradition, such as, the English Bill of Rights of 1689. Back to point I was trying to make about CCP, it would reasonable to assume that Iceland would have similar protections for privacy and CCP like many computer companies would fight to protect theirs. FYI, Iceland is a member of the Council of Europe and in 1950, it adopted the European Convention on Human Rights which gives at least some protection of privacy.
In the EU data is not private from prosecutors, that is specifically stated in the data protection legislation. They could simply ask for the persons details. Also they could look at the server logs for the forum in question and demand the details from the persons ISP.
One thing that numerous spies have done in this game is to use other peoples logins on private forums, which is a crime under data protection laws (you don't own the login, the server admin assigns it to a certain person and that isn't transferable). However one would hope that something like this would be laughed out of court, I'm just not certain that it would be these days.
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Luthien Firefoot
Synergy. Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2007.02.24 12:29:00 -
[95]
I've seen some weird and dumb things on this forum, but this goes in the trophy cabinet.
The pilot from goonfleet has absolutely nothing to worry about.
Moreover, if the LV chappie does pursue this, thereby taking an ingame action out of game, he is the one who will ultimately suffer.
I imagine his personal details will be revealed, somehow and then he may have to deal with the repercussions of that.
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putukas
Enterprise Estonia Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.02.24 12:30:00 -
[96]
Edited by: putukas on 24/02/2007 12:27:55 stealing identity is serious crime in finland and also in estonia!
so be careful what you say here :p
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Blackpanter
Gallente Black Omega Security
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Posted - 2007.02.24 12:40:00 -
[97]
Its true . Finfleet are retaining the legal services of Lionel Hutz to pursue this action .
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Eddie
Exotic Dancers Club Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.24 12:50:00 -
[98]
most stupid thing ever.
Originally by: Riddari -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- OFFICIAL
BOB wins EVE-OFFLINE
Lets see how EVE-ONLINE goes.
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Ravysa Delorean
Amarr Torro Negro Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2007.02.24 13:01:00 -
[99]
Originally by: putukas Edited by: putukas on 24/02/2007 12:27:55 stealing identity is serious crime in finland and also in estonia!
so be careful what you say here :p
Identity in a computer GAME
G A M E -> an entertaining activity or sport, especially one played by children, or the equipment needed for such an activity
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Splagada
Minmatar Tides of Silence
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Posted - 2007.02.24 13:09:00 -
[100]
I would pay to go to the court that day lol
and watch the complainer get cut in pieces.
a lawyer would love that kind of case ------
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Topaz Skydiver
Minmatar Narrative Freshfood
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Posted - 2007.02.24 13:27:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Topaz Skydiver on 24/02/2007 13:25:17 If the guy hasn't signed some sort of non-disclosure agreement that he isn't allowed to give the information he obtains from the internal forums or ts to a third party, I doubt that you can sue him and win that case.
If any alliance member is allowed/invited to use alliance forums and alliance TS, then a person in that alliance, who uses that information against the alliance, is also allowed. He didn't do it with a false identity. He's an alliance member and so he is allowed to access the information, what he does with it, is a different thing.
But I'm not a finnish lawyer.
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Xendie
Celestial Apocalypse Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.02.24 14:07:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Nebuchadnezzar I Edited by: Nebuchadnezzar I on 24/02/2007 11:41:29 Edited by: Nebuchadnezzar I on 24/02/2007 11:40:53 Edit: Reading the last bit: Xendie: You are making alot of assumptions regarding which rules apply when, when on the internet and when said use gives one sovereign entity the right to prosecute a citizen of another sovereign entity.
its not assumptions, in sweden as in most eropean countries the jusrisdiction is where the physical server is located. iirc the EU has a collaboration treaty regarding law enforcment actions regarding crimes across the borders.
Originally by: "darth solo" bad men came, bad men didnt go home, bad men left containers.
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TitusFlamininus
Ars ex Discordia Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.24 14:23:00 -
[103]
In my corp we were entertaining the idea of whether it is legally possible to use subpoenas to prosecute forum spies.
As long as the forum/TS/vent server is situated in the UK, the case is actually pretty clear cut: Forum/TS/vent spying would fall under illegal access to computer systems and would be classified as a crime. This is a rather broad legalese definition for hacking.
Also add to the forums EULA that anything posted on the forums is property of the forum hoster and any external posting will cause a fine, and you can even get copyright law going in your favour.
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Coquillette
Infinite Improbability Inc Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.02.24 14:36:00 -
[104]
Quote: illegal access to computer systems
Define "illegal", please...
Xendie : could you link the Finnish laws you're referring to stating that Finfleet is within their "legal" right to sue any "spy" getting access to their TS server ?
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Hennry Fromer
Gallente radiated space gerbils
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Posted - 2007.02.24 14:37:00 -
[105]
Originally by: HankMurphy lol
are you on LSD? RL lawsuits for ingame actions?
Any lawyer worth paying would laugh you out of his office. Any lawyer that would take you seriously probably hasn't won a court case in years.
I thought something was wrong when my lawyer wanted to be paid in isk, and said his law school was the university of calle.
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Verone
Veto. Veto Corp
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Posted - 2007.02.24 14:44:00 -
[106]
Lollerskates.
That is all.
NEWEST MOVIE : VETO FOR HIRE
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Shirei
Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.02.24 14:47:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Shirei on 24/02/2007 14:43:23 Well, if their forum has a very strict agreement you have to accept when you sign up (e.g. something of the sort of 'by signing up here, you agree to not reproduce any of the information you can find here without prior consent of the respective owner'), it might technically have a legal basis.
But even if they have that, not getting any kind of lawsuit about it dismissed due to the 'damage' caused being negligible is going to be rather hard, so LMAO.
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Tom Gunn
Caldari North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.02.24 14:52:00 -
[108]
Funniest threat ever ?
LV sinking to even further depths in hell ?
Or yet more examples of internet kiddies throwing their toys out of their pram because they lost ?
Oh the melodrama!
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redeyehunter
Minmatar Shinra Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.02.24 14:53:00 -
[109]
Originally by: evistin I am told FinFleet is pursing a case against GoonSwarm in the real world over certain in game actions.
I am also its also creates super fast mod reaction time.
Could someone who is aware of some of the details contact me, I would like to research the details up a bit.
Not sure why this post is still open. It seems speculative "I am told FinFleet ", by whom or what would be nice to know. Also the subject of this post should at the very least be changed to info on FinFleet and not LV. This thread is basically a post to start a flame against the whole LV with no good cause.
Even if it is true FinFleet are persuing this and I am not saying it is. How does that automatically translate to the whole of LV.
I appeal to the Moderator to at least change the subject of this forum topic.
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Ishtar1
Puppets on Steroids Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.24 15:04:00 -
[110]
lol abit OTT but you gota ask you self if this realy went through what would be the punishment "i sentence you to pay 20mill isk in damages and an apoulagy(sp) mail"
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Topaz Skydiver
Minmatar Narrative Freshfood
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Posted - 2007.02.24 15:05:00 -
[111]
Originally by: redeyehunter
Originally by: evistin I am told FinFleet is pursing a case against GoonSwarm in the real world over certain in game actions.
I am also its also creates super fast mod reaction time.
Could someone who is aware of some of the details contact me, I would like to research the details up a bit.
Not sure why this post is still open. It seems speculative "I am told FinFleet ", by whom or what would be nice to know. Also the subject of this post should at the very least be changed to info on FinFleet and not LV. This thread is basically a post to start a flame against the whole LV with no good cause.
Even if it is true FinFleet are persuing this and I am not saying it is. How does that automatically translate to the whole of LV.
I appeal to the Moderator to at least change the subject of this forum topic.
Google '+finfleet +legal'
That also shows that if this story is true, then it happened, before the bandwaggon arrived, so it's not throwing someone with toys because of the current situation.
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Boogey Trollias
FinFleet Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.02.24 15:10:00 -
[112]
I'll give one reply to this thread to clear some things and then let regular eve-o bull**** continue.
1) FinFleet or LV haven't or even couldn't press charges against anyone, them being only ingame entities.
2) It wasn't even discussed in LV or FinFleet, but
3) It was action solely taken by me now about 3 months ago.
It has nothing to do with ingame things or ingame spying. There was a link given to Kugutsumen forums earlier. If you wish for further information, I'd go and click it.
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Rover Vitesse
Gallente FinFleet Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.02.24 15:36:00 -
[113]
Ahhh, and while you're all getting your knickers in a knot about this... take a read of this interview that Remedial gave regarding forum hacking/spying etc.
For those too lazy to click, i'll quote here...
Quote: The Escapist: Is hacking another corporation's message boards really ethical, or just the cost of doing business? If not, would you consider hiring him (kugutsumen) now?
Remedial: Hacking is unethical, absolutely. It's akin to breaking into somebody's office and rifling through their papers to find something that that person wouldn't willingly disclose. I would never hire somebody to break a real life law to give us an in-game advantage: That just screams out "reality check, please." Not only would our in-game reputation suffer massively and likely result in at least some bannings to the detriment of the corporation I created, there are potentially real life criminal and civil consequences for engaging in such conduct.
Have to say, pretty much agree with Remedial on this, such a shame his lofty words and ideals don't seem to be shared by his members.
Rovers Chronicles
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Nostic
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Posted - 2007.02.24 16:40:00 -
[114]
Edited by: Nostic on 24/02/2007 16:37:42
Originally by: Rover Vitesse Ahhh, and while you're all getting your knickers in a knot about this... take a read of this interview that Remedial gave regarding forum hacking/spying etc.
For those too lazy to click, i'll quote here...
Quote: The Escapist: Is hacking another corporation's message boards really ethical, or just the cost of doing business? If not, would you consider hiring him (kugutsumen) now?
Remedial: Hacking is unethical, absolutely. It's akin to breaking into somebody's office and rifling through their papers to find something that that person wouldn't willingly disclose. I would never hire somebody to break a real life law to give us an in-game advantage: That just screams out "reality check, please." Not only would our in-game reputation suffer massively and likely result in at least some bannings to the detriment of the corporation I created, there are potentially real life criminal and civil consequences for engaging in such conduct.
Have to say, pretty much agree with Remedial on this, such a shame his lofty words and ideals don't seem to be shared by his members.
If you had any clue what this thread is about, you would know that the goonfleet member in question didn't hack anything. His alt was accepted in finfleet, and was given TS/forums access like every other member. It's the same thing your alliance does, it's the same thing BoB does, it's the same thing every major alliance in the game does.
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Inmate 19225004
Absoluten Calfeutrail
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Posted - 2007.02.24 16:45:00 -
[115]
Originally by: Boogey Trollias It was action solely taken by me now about 3 months ago.
Aww, didja cry to mommy as well? f00kin baby.
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Rover Vitesse
Gallente FinFleet Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.02.24 17:01:00 -
[116]
Edited by: Rover Vitesse on 24/02/2007 16:58:04
Originally by: Nostic
If you had any clue what this thread is about, you would know that the goonfleet member in question didn't hack anything. His alt was accepted in finfleet, and was given TS/forums access like every other member.
What part of the copying private conversations and messages and reproducing them on another forum don't you understand? It makes me laugh that the people in this thread who are saying "Wooah, that's a bit extreme, it's only a game" are the same people who are using their own time and money to try and gain such an advantage. If it is only a game, why are you going to such extremes instead of playing the game in the spirit intended.
I am not Finnish, I don't understand the Finnish laws as applied to this case, but the duality of some of these posters makes me laugh. Give yourselves a reality check people.
Originally by: nostic It's the same thing your alliance does, it's the same thing BoB does, it's the same thing every major alliance in the game does.
Regardless of what other people in this game do, it doesn't make it right, nor does it make it legal. Thats the defence a five year old would use in Kindergarten..."Well, that other boy ate a dog turd, so it's ok...".
Rovers Chronicles
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Patch86
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Freelancer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.24 17:04:00 -
[117]
Far aside from the general nonsense of the whole situation:
He got one of his alt characters into your corp, right? Did you accept his application? Did he claim to be someone he wasn't? Did, or did not, CCP make alts impossible to identify with mains on purpose?
So he applies, doesn't mention that he's also a Goon, and you accept him in. He happily spreads his newly accessed information to other friends in Goon Swarm. No law is broken there, Finnish or otherwise. It's just FinFleet's dumb-ass fault for accepting a new member during war time without making proper checks. --------
Originally by: Constantine Arcanum most problems can be solved with chloroform.
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Stoffer Ninjapirate
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.02.24 17:16:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Patch86
So he applies, doesn't mention that he's also a Goon, and you accept him in. He happily spreads his newly accessed information to other friends in Goon Swarm. No law is broken there, Finnish or otherwise. It's just FinFleet's dumb-ass fault for accepting a new member during war time without making proper checks.
I even had GoonFleet in my corp history.
I agree with every word you wrote. Personally, I find this funny and sad. Funny because this has potential to be incredible entertainment, and sad because anyone that presses charges over a game needs to log off for awhile.
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Ironnight
Caldari Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2007.02.24 17:18:00 -
[119]
Someone is warming up for a Darwin award
Originally by: kieron Internally, this incident was discovered over the summer
Originally by: t20 Posted on 02.07.07 The blueprints in question will be returned to CCP
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Victoria DeBurr
Gallente Renyn Supply Company
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Posted - 2007.02.24 17:39:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Rover Vitesse Ahhh, and while you're all getting your knickers in a knot about this... take a read of this interview that Remedial gave regarding forum hacking/spying etc.
For those too lazy to click, i'll quote here...
Quote: The Escapist: Is hacking another corporation's message boards really ethical, or just the cost of doing business? If not, would you consider hiring him (kugutsumen) now?
Remedial: Hacking is unethical, absolutely. It's akin to breaking into somebody's office and rifling through their papers to find something that that person wouldn't willingly disclose. I would never hire somebody to break a real life law to give us an in-game advantage: That just screams out "reality check, please." Not only would our in-game reputation suffer massively and likely result in at least some bannings to the detriment of the corporation I created, there are potentially real life criminal and civil consequences for engaging in such conduct.
Have to say, pretty much agree with Remedial on this, such a shame his lofty words and ideals don't seem to be shared by his members.
Hey Rover Vitesses, you know when you fire up this game called EVE, there is, when you are selecting the person you want to play a thing called "terminate" Well, you should click on that and dump all the magical toons that you've made. I can not believe that your parents raised you to be a huge crybaby, but I guess I was wrong.
Finfleet set to -10 and KOS.
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Audri Fisher
Caldari The Keep THE R0CK
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Posted - 2007.02.24 17:46:00 -
[121]
Does the goonfleet member in question reside in Finland? "misplace" your passport. Extradition is a lengthy process, and there are a lot of very lazy bureaucrats that the paperwork would have to go through.
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DALE0404
Blue Star Brotherhood Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.02.24 17:59:00 -
[122]
I have just read the first page of this thread and I couldnt read anymore because of the tears of laughter rolling down my cheeks.
This is without doubt the funniest thread ever in the history of Eve.
I hope nobody finds out where my alts are!!!
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Dr Slaughter
ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2007.02.24 18:03:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Coquillette
Quote: illegal access to computer systems
Define "illegal", please...
Generally any 'unauthorized' use/access to a computer system is deemed by the UK law as being 'illegal'
If you really want to know all about the computer misuse act for the UK you can find all of it right here
The point about spying on TS/Vent or Forums is that the spy is potentially accessing material in an unauthorized manner and thus potentially breaking the law. TS/Vent and Forums are NOT part of CCPs game and spying in them is IMHO, frankly, pathetic.
Getting ****ed off enough to take someone to court is another matter though. *pinch of salt required* |
Helganstandt
Finis Lumen
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Posted - 2007.02.24 18:24:00 -
[124]
You know, I changed my mind. I actually want these charges to go through, and I want to see what happens. The guy in question already said he would go to Finland, so we don't have to worry about the extradition. This could be almost as entertaining as an episode of Ally McBeal in it's prime, and I just can't say no to that.
Any chance we could get some cameras and a goofy defense lawyer for the Goon in the Finnish court room?
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Rover Vitesse
Gallente FinFleet Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.02.24 18:40:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Victoria DeBurr
Hey Rover Vitesses, you know when you fire up this game called EVE, there is, when you are selecting the person you want to play a thing called "terminate" Well, you should click on that and dump all the magical toons that you've made. I can not believe that your parents raised you to be a huge crybaby, but I guess I was wrong.
Finfleet set to -10 and KOS.
Wow, such vitriol. I am not crying about anything. You're all pretty wound up about something, I was explaining my point of view. You don't actually seem to have a point of view, apart from a personal attack on me (although you bolded my character name, your "speech" had nothing to do with my ingame persona, but I guess that made you feel a little better).
I couldn't care less what you think of me as a player or my magical toons, but I can tell you right now my e-persona is shaking in its virtual boots about being -10 to Victoria DeBurr and the Renyn Supply Company. Now, this is a forum, discuss the matter in hand, and leave the personal abuse out of it, Victoria DeBurr.
Rovers Chronicles
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weixing
United Freedom Federation
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Posted - 2007.02.24 18:44:00 -
[126]
well this kinda makes the whole "reds take the game to seriously" excuse redundant.
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Helganstandt
Finis Lumen
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Posted - 2007.02.24 18:52:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Rover Vitesse
Originally by: Victoria DeBurr
Hey Rover Vitesses, you know when you fire up this game called EVE, there is, when you are selecting the person you want to play a thing called "terminate" Well, you should click on that and dump all the magical toons that you've made. I can not believe that your parents raised you to be a huge crybaby, but I guess I was wrong.
Finfleet set to -10 and KOS.
Wow, such vitriol. I am not crying about anything. You're all pretty wound up about something, I was explaining my point of view. You don't actually seem to have a point of view, apart from a personal attack on me (although you bolded my character name, your "speech" had nothing to do with my ingame persona, but I guess that made you feel a little better).
I couldn't care less what you think of me as a player or my magical toons, but I can tell you right now my e-persona is shaking in its virtual boots about being -10 to Victoria DeBurr and the Renyn Supply Company. Now, this is a forum, discuss the matter in hand, and leave the personal abuse out of it, Victoria DeBurr.
So do you really think this is worth the time and resources? I mean, comeon, are you really serious about this? I'm just having such a hard time grasping the rationality behind all of it.
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Medical One
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Posted - 2007.02.24 19:19:00 -
[128]
This has got to be the funniest thread ever, in historys, history.
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Rover Vitesse
Gallente FinFleet Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.02.24 19:32:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Helganstandt
So do you really think this is worth the time and resources? I mean, comeon, are you really serious about this? I'm just having such a hard time grasping the rationality behind all of it.
Personally? No, I don't think that it would be worth the time and effort of legal action. I do think it would be an interesting test case, which would explore the limits on international internet laws. Perhaps something for a law student to make a case study on.
As I have already said, I find it hard to beleive that people spend the time and effort to actually spy to such a depth (or try to anyway). The access that the character would have had would have little benefits tactically or strategically.
The fact that I am a member of FINFL doesn't make my views any less valid, but it seems people wish to flame that anyway, and are not actually reading what I am trying to say. I guess I should have hidden behind an alt in the Renyn Supply Company instead of using my main to try and discuss this.
Rovers Chronicles
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Nostic
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Posted - 2007.02.24 19:39:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Rover Vitesse
Originally by: Helganstandt
So do you really think this is worth the time and resources? I mean, comeon, are you really serious about this? I'm just having such a hard time grasping the rationality behind all of it.
Personally? No, I don't think that it would be worth the time and effort of legal action. I do think it would be an interesting test case, which would explore the limits on international internet laws. Perhaps something for a law student to make a case study on.
As I have already said, I find it hard to beleive that people spend the time and effort to actually spy to such a depth (or try to anyway). The access that the character would have had would have little benefits tactically or strategically.
The fact that I am a member of FINFL doesn't make my views any less valid, but it seems people wish to flame that anyway, and are not actually reading what I am trying to say. I guess I should have hidden behind an alt in the Renyn Supply Company instead of using my main to try and discuss this.
Yes, lets use a video game shenanigans to test international law regarding the internet. It doesn't matter that real lives are being affected, because he's your enemy and blows your internet spaceships up.
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BobFromMarketing
Amarr The Syndicate Inc INVICTUS.
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Posted - 2007.02.24 19:41:00 -
[131]
Creating a valid spy for a major alliance - Several Months Gaining access to said alliance - A week Monitoring their TS/forums and in game chat - 2 months Being threatened real life legal action because someone's losing an internet game - Priceless
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Kael Zeratul
The Huns Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.02.24 19:48:00 -
[132]
So am i reading this right, you want to sue goonfleet for you being so dumb to invite a spy and give them TS info and Forum access. Now you want to sue them for using the rights you gave them? Sounds to me you need to sue your CEO/Directors for being a moron to invite the said spy.
If the Above was Hacked sure you'd be able to but for you guys being dumb and giving him all the said rights and him using them, welcome to the EvE spy game. Im more then sure alot of other alliance have people with those TS and forum rights of many other alliances they shouldn't time to start sueing everyone then eh? Sig coming soon to a forum near you |
Helganstandt
Finis Lumen
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Posted - 2007.02.24 19:48:00 -
[133]
Originally by: BobFromMarketing Creating a valid spy for a major alliance - Several Months Gaining access to said alliance - A week Monitoring their TS/forums and in game chat - 2 months Being threatened real life legal action because someone's losing an internet game - Timeless
Fixed that for you.
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Bon Ali
Bon's Ecological Recycling
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Posted - 2007.02.24 19:49:00 -
[134]
This is probably the most hilarious and pathetic thing ive ever seen in a MMO. Leave it to FinFleet to sue over THEIR VIDEO GAME SECRETTTTSSSSSSS.
Here is a hint, FinFleet: Not only does the country and government of Finland not give a flying **** about your internet video game secrets, nobody else in the rest of the world does either! Surprise! Your complaint is probably plastered all over the walls of your local PD so everyone can laugh at it daily. The simple fact that you are wasting their time when they have, ya know, REAL crimes to deal with is disgusting. They should take you to trial for waisting their resources.
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Doddy
Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2007.02.24 19:49:00 -
[135]
this sounds like a good thing to me, everyone just needs to base their ts and forums in finland and no more stupid spy stuff. Most pf the thread is rather misleading as it is implying that people are being sued for doing in-game damage which is evidently not the case. Does all seem rather childish tho.
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Ewa Quillam
Caldari mega mining corporation Astral Wolves
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Posted - 2007.02.24 19:52:00 -
[136]
Meh, d¦ should pay attention to this, this could also apply to their case, hell, a titan loss is a good enough prejudice in court right? mouhahahah
As French people say... ptdr
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Helganstandt
Finis Lumen
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Posted - 2007.02.24 19:55:00 -
[137]
Edited by: Helganstandt on 24/02/2007 19:53:46
Originally by: Rover Vitesse
Originally by: Helganstandt
So do you really think this is worth the time and resources? I mean, comeon, are you really serious about this? I'm just having such a hard time grasping the rationality behind all of it.
Personally? No, I don't think that it would be worth the time and effort of legal action. I do think it would be an interesting test case, which would explore the limits on international internet laws. Perhaps something for a law student to make a case study on.
As I have already said, I find it hard to beleive that people spend the time and effort to actually spy to such a depth (or try to anyway). The access that the character would have had would have little benefits tactically or strategically.
The fact that I am a member of FINFL doesn't make my views any less valid, but it seems people wish to flame that anyway, and are not actually reading what I am trying to say. I guess I should have hidden behind an alt in the Renyn Supply Company instead of using my main to try and discuss this.
I'm confused now. Maybe I read the thread wrong, but are you the one trying to get criminal charges filed or not? Because if you don't personally think it's worth the time and resources...then why do it? Obviously you do if you're going to do it.
The "interesting test case" is really reaching. And I can see that you want to say that it's hypocritical for us to say you're going to far when we obviously think spying isn't....but that's like comparing apples to an orchard. The amount of stress, resources, and time invested in placing a spy pales in comparison to that of fighting out a legal battle. Considering how little effort it really takes to get a spy and the benefits reaped from it (D2 titan kill anyone?), I just don't see how you're logically connecting the two situations as similar.
So I'll ask it straight out, what's the REAL reason you're doing this?
Edit: I did read the thread wrong, it was the poster above you with an eerily similar portrait that's filing the charges. So pretend my questions are directed toward him.
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Victoria DeBurr
Gallente Renyn Supply Company
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Posted - 2007.02.24 19:57:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Rover Vitesse
Wow, such vitriol. I am not crying about anything. You're all pretty wound up about something, I was explaining my point of view. You don't actually seem to have a point of view, apart from a personal attack on me (although you bolded my character name, your "speech" had nothing to do with my ingame persona, but I guess that made you feel a little better).
I couldn't care less what you think of me as a player or my magical toons, but I can tell you right now my e-persona is shaking in its virtual boots about being -10 to Victoria DeBurr and the Renyn Supply Company. Now, this is a forum, discuss the matter in hand, and leave the personal abuse out of it, Victoria DeBurr.
I wouldn't roll my eyes too much, you are going to be in Empire soon enough, and since they don't have veld in Jita anymore, I'm sure I'm going to see your butt in my space soon enough.
How about this, you and your ilk need to stop playing a game if you can't handle playing a game? LV and FinFleet have been crying and ****ing all over the forums for what, the last month like a bunch of little kids that have lost their lollipops. Well, guess what, grow a pair and man up.
Oh no, am I going to be sued for that as well? FinFleet, more like LawsuitFleet, and needs a dose of IRLfleet. Take a walk outside lamer.
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Watauga
Minmatar Imperial Guardians
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Posted - 2007.02.24 20:00:00 -
[139]
Although I think the basis for this thread is dumb and should thrown out of court, I do think this thread is fairly interesting in that it is good opportunity, as an American, to learn a little more about Europe than the traditional means. I do have a few questions:
1. Is this a criminal and/or a civil case?
2. Iceland is not a member of the EU. Although, the alleged crime was committed in Finland, the information gathered was used to affect Eve-Online which exists on a server in Iceland and I assume no crimes were committed in Iceland. Would a Finnish or EU court be able to compel CCP to divulge a player's real world identity?
3. If the person that committed the alleged crime does not reside in the EU or Iceland, what possible legal recourse would Finfleet have with any amount realistic success?
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Sigmorhair
Gallente Eisenmetal
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Posted - 2007.02.24 20:26:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Watauga Although I think the basis for this thread is dumb and should thrown out of court, I do think this thread is fairly interesting in that it is good opportunity, as an American, to learn a little more about Europe than the traditional means. I do have a few questions:
1. Is this a criminal and/or a civil case?
2. Iceland is not a member of the EU. Although, the alleged crime was committed in Finland, the information gathered was used to affect Eve-Online which exists on a server in Iceland and I assume no crimes were committed in Iceland. Would a Finnish or EU court be able to compel CCP to divulge a player's real world identity?
3. If the person that committed the alleged crime does not reside in the EU or Iceland, what possible legal recourse would Finfleet have with any amount realistic success?
First off - read the thread.
These retards GAVE this person access to their forums - he didn't hack anything. So no crime was committed even in the loosest sense of the words.
Second, there is no jurisdictional way to go after this person even if it was a crime. It is difficult and time consuming to extradite murderers let alone some petty hacking garbage claim - and again, nobody hacked anything here.
Third - as has already been pointed out - it is almost certain that this is 10 year old chestbeating, since no prosecutor or solicitor is going to touch this even if hacking was involved (and again there wasn't any), because it's a laughable claim in the first place, a looser case and a waste of time.
This is exactly why this is this claim is garbage. And anyone who doesn't understand that really needs their head examined. For the really stupid - this claim was first made like 2 months ago and the same people claimed that they went to the police - guess what - they were laughed at - nothing happened.
No rolleyes is big enough to be honest.
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arkarsk
Provenance.
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Posted - 2007.02.24 20:28:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Sigmorhair Would a Finnish or EU court be able to compel CCP to divulge a player's real world identity?
I'm 90% sure finfleet knows his full name, not sure if it goes further than that. ----------------- http://www.eve-provenance.com |
Detaitiv
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Posted - 2007.02.24 20:45:00 -
[142]
Ragnar joined finfleet?
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Rover Vitesse
Gallente FinFleet Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.02.24 20:52:00 -
[143]
Okay, my last post on this, gonna clear a few things up, and then you can carry on your little rant.
1) I am not the guy pressing charges. As I have said more than once I agree this action seems excessive over what is, essentially, a game. Wether your ethics decide the line is drawn at in game actions, out of game actions, DOS attacks on TS servers or whatever, is not the point here. Nobody is questioning the ethics of spying, just the legality of what went on.
2) This is not over the ingame actions of anyone, so this has nothing to do with CCP.
3) Nobody has been accused of hacking. What the law covers is the copying of private messages and posting in another electronic medium. When the Goon signed up to read those private messages he clicked a little tickbox saying that he understood that anything he read could not be reproduced in any means (electronic or otherwise). He violated this by copying and pasting those private messages.
4) From what I understand, Boogey was talking about this to a friend (who doesn't even play eve), who happens to be some kind of legal student or junior practitioner. His friend said he was going to examine this for his personal interest. Boogey spoke to the Goon about it (you can read the chatlog on Kutzhisnames forum), as a courtesy measure. If you read it I think it would be fair to say that neither party was taking it too seriously.
5) This all kicked off back in November, and had been long forgotten about on the FINFL forums, it was no big deal and none of our members saw it as such. Half truths and speculation make the Eve-o forums and before you know it, Finnish Law is being discussed as if the sky is falling.
However, carry on, and remember, don't let the truth get in the way of a good rumour. IF you really need to discuss this further with me, contact my solicitor, Mr Lionel Hutz of Springfield.
Rovers Chronicles
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Inmate 19225004
Absoluten Calfeutrail
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Posted - 2007.02.24 20:57:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Rover Vitesse What the law covers is the copying of private messages and posting in another electronic medium. When the Goon signed up to read those private messages he clicked a little tickbox saying that he understood that anything he read could not be reproduced in any means (electronic or otherwise). He violated this by copying and pasting those private messages.
Lameness at its finest.
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Watauga
Minmatar Imperial Guardians
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Posted - 2007.02.24 21:06:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Sigmorhair
Originally by: Watauga Although I think the basis for this thread is dumb and should thrown out of court, I do think this thread is fairly interesting in that it is good opportunity, as an American, to learn a little more about Europe than the traditional means. I do have a few questions:
1. Is this a criminal and/or a civil case?
2. Iceland is not a member of the EU. Although, the alleged crime was committed in Finland, the information gathered was used to affect Eve-Online which exists on a server in Iceland and I assume no crimes were committed in Iceland. Would a Finnish or EU court be able to compel CCP to divulge a player's real world identity?
3. If the person that committed the alleged crime does not reside in the EU or Iceland, what possible legal recourse would Finfleet have with any amount realistic success?
First off - read the thread.
These retards GAVE this person access to their forums - he didn't hack anything. So no crime was committed even in the loosest sense of the words.
Second, there is no jurisdictional way to go after this person even if it was a crime. It is difficult and time consuming to extradite murderers let alone some petty hacking garbage claim - and again, nobody hacked anything here.
Third - as has already been pointed out - it is almost certain that this is 10 year old chestbeating, since no prosecutor or solicitor is going to touch this even if hacking was involved (and again there wasn't any), because it's a laughable claim in the first place, a looser case and a waste of time.
This is exactly why this is this claim is garbage. And anyone who doesn't understand that really needs their head examined. For the really stupid - this claim was first made like 2 months ago and the same people claimed that they went to the police - guess what - they were laughed at - nothing happened.
No rolleyes is big enough to be honest.
First off, I did read the thread Secondly, read my post especially the first words.
I state it another way. The actual case is dumb, but the surrounding Internet law is what is interesting especially the jurisdictional issues. My sister did her Master's thesis about ten years ago on Internet law and she said it was a very frustrating process because of conflicting laws and a judge would make a new ruling that would cause her to rewrite large sections of her thesis.
As far as a case like this would not see the light of day, I would not assume anything. In the US a woman sued McDonald's because she burned herself after spilling coffee on herself. She said it was TOO HOT. Although I don't know it for a fact, I imagine case just as stupid have occurred in Europe.
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mematar
Delictum 23216
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Posted - 2007.02.24 21:12:00 -
[146]
Pathetic FinFleet, just PATHETIC!
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Lord Takani
Caldari Yakuza Corp
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Posted - 2007.02.24 21:29:00 -
[147]
I'm gonna sue Jackco for blowing up my ship!
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Stoffer Ninjapirate
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.02.24 22:03:00 -
[148]
which box did I click where I made an e-promise not to take any information? and which pieces of information did I take exactly? who did I give it to?
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Topaz Skydiver
Minmatar Narrative Freshfood
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Posted - 2007.02.24 22:11:00 -
[149]
Edited by: Topaz Skydiver on 24/02/2007 22:10:10
Originally by: Rover Vitesse What the law covers is the copying of private messages and posting in another electronic medium. When the Goon signed up to read those private messages he clicked a little tickbox saying that he understood that anything he read could not be reproduced in any means (electronic or otherwise). He violated this by copying and pasting those private messages.
I don't think that this is a bad policy. It's quite clever from Finfleet to use this right to protect their forums. Forums and TS are not part of the game and are not affected by CCPs EULA or any other of CCPs rules that allow spying.
If you sign-up for a forum and agree its rules and those are within the law, then you need to follow them, no matter what kind of forum it is. Otherwise you might get sued.
When I read it first, I was like 'Wtf ?' too.
But from a legal perspective Finfleet seems to be right here. Looks like eve players need to accept that there is no carte blanche to spy out your enemies in EVE, when it goes beyond the means that are built into the game client.
It's kind of childish too, if some EVE players can't accept it, stamp their foot on the ground and say: 'It's eve, I'm allowed to spy, how I like and give the information to anyone !' Indeed you are not, when you break the law.
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ER0X
Pyrrhus Sicarii
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Posted - 2007.02.24 22:17:00 -
[150]
Well, well, well all these cryĘs from us Eveites of Lame! Shame! Are in my opinion irrelevant, in comparison to the bigger picture.
LetĘs take for example the Server admin of the forum in question. If he has hosted his server in an EU country and is storing personal details other than say an address book of email addys. He has to abide by the EU directive; Directive 96/46/EC on the protection of individuals with regards to the processing of personal data and on the free movement of such data.
In the UK for example we have the Data protection act 1998 that was created from an earlier act to bring current legislation into line with this directive. All EU member states were given adequate time frames to construct legislation in accordance with this directive. In the US we have Safe Harbour again constructed to be in accordance with this EU directive.
Now if this is the case then the server admin has already contacted his countryĘs Information commissioner and has signed and completed the relevant paperwork with regards to information gathering and personal data entries, and the protection of such.
If the server admin has discovered a breach in his security then he has a legal obligation to report this to the correct authority. He would most likely be asked to pass on any logs obtained during the time frame of the incident. This would be necessary, as at this stage the server admin has no idea as to the extent of the security compromise. It is then out with the server adminĘs hands and is in the process of investigation. The investigation will uncover any discrepancies and will determine if any laws have been broken.
So in short wither we think its lame or not, and I donĘt know the exact details, he may have had no choice in submitting the complaint, being bound by his countryĘs laws. If this is the case then he can be forgiven as taking the game too seriously and given leeway on the grounds of necessity.
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Shirei
Minmatar Cutting Edge Incorporated
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Posted - 2007.02.24 22:37:00 -
[151]
Originally by: ER0X LetĘs take for example the Server admin of the forum in question. If he has hosted his server in an EU country and is storing personal details other than say an address book of email addys. He has to abide by the EU directive; Directive 96/46/EC on the protection of individuals with regards to the processing of personal data and on the free movement of such data.
Personal data in the context of this legislation are personal details as in names, addresses, phone numbers etc. of people. It is completely irrelevant to this thread. Noone is accusing goons of compiling a list of all the RL names/addresses of LV members without their consent, which would indeed be illegal under EU law.
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Dr Slaughter
ISS Navy Task Force Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
|
Posted - 2007.02.24 23:07:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Topaz Skydiver I don't think that this is a bad policy. It's quite clever from Finfleet to use this right to protect their forums.
Forums and TS are not part of the game and are not affected by CCPs EULA or any other of CCPs rules that allow spying.
If you sign-up for a forum and agree its rules and those are within the law, then you need to follow them, no matter what kind of forum it is. Otherwise you might get sued.
Exactly right. TS/Vent and forums are not part of the game and are part of 'RL'. If you want them secured all these services should have a terms of use contract that makes it clear what 'could' happen to you if you break the terms and also has you agree to be bound to the laws of the appropriate court.
As Internet users we already have agreed to similar contracts with our ISPs. It might even be the case that the goon broke their ISPs terms too but I doubt it.
Originally by: Topaz Skydiver
When I read it first, I was like 'Wtf ?' too.
But from a legal perspective Finfleet seems to be right here. Looks like eve players need to accept that there is no carte blanche to spy out your enemies in EVE, when it goes beyond the means that are built into the game client.
It's kind of childish too, if some EVE players can't accept it, stamp their foot on the ground and say: 'It's eve, I'm allowed to spy, how I like and give the information to anyone !' Indeed you are not, when you break the law.
Some of the EvE player base are children which is always going to be a problem...
The point is: TS/Vent/Forums are not part of EvE. If they have a terms of use contract and/or copyright agreements you should respect them or face the music. Whining about it probably isn't going to help you *pinch of salt required* |
Jags
Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.02.24 23:08:00 -
[153]
Regardless of the legalities im ****in ashamed to be part of an alliance that is doing this kinds of thing.
Utter embarrassment IMO.
Apologies to all the decent eve guys , this one does not have backing from any of us that have any modicum of sense.
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Amerame
Section XIII
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Posted - 2007.02.24 23:14:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Jags Regardless of the legalities im ****in ashamed to be part of an alliance that is doing this kinds of thing.
Utter embarrassment IMO.
Apologies to all the decent eve guys , this one does not have backing from any of us that have any modicum of sense.
I don't think LV is to blame on this one, but Roger Vitesse is a disgrace to the Eve community and if FinFleet want to avoid permanent damage they should kick the guy.
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Rover Vitesse
Gallente FinFleet Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.02.24 23:44:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Amerame
Originally by: Jags Regardless of the legalities im ****in ashamed to be part of an alliance that is doing this kinds of thing.
Utter embarrassment IMO.
Apologies to all the decent eve guys , this one does not have backing from any of us that have any modicum of sense.
I don't think LV is to blame on this one, but Roger Vitesse is a disgrace to the Eve community and if FinFleet want to avoid permanent damage they should kick the guy.
I don't know wether you're being deliberatley obtuse, stupid, or you just haven't read the thread. I'll pretend the last, and suggest you read it again, before even throwing baseless accusations about. Read in particular my post on page five where I explain a few things for the hard of thinking, Mr Ameropey.
Rovers Chronicles
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cflux
Caldari FinFleet Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.02.24 23:52:00 -
[156]
Edited by: cflux on 24/02/2007 23:51:11
Originally by: Boogey Trollias I'll give one reply to this thread to clear some things and then let regular eve-o bull**** continue.
1) FinFleet or LV haven't or even couldn't press charges against anyone, them being only ingame entities.
2) It wasn't even discussed in LV or FinFleet, but
3) It was action solely taken by me now about 3 months ago.
It has nothing to do with ingame things or ingame spying. There was a link given to Kugutsumen forums earlier. If you wish for further information, I'd go and click it.
Sigh. You are prolly wondering why my corp mates are not posting in this thread, becouse this has nothing to do with LV or Finfleet or the rest.
First of all, you are all being bombed by nice drama bomb that has been on kugutsumen forums months ago and incident that happened, what 4 months ago now. This is done becouse of EVE related propaganda.
Finfleet as corporation, has had spys and continue to have them. It's not strange nor do we complain about it.
Finfleet is part of of an legally registered entity, Finnexus r.y., that provides a community for online gaming. "FinNexus community" plays several games and has social activity in all parts of life; think it as a club. We have over 700 members and only small part plays EVE. We do not complain about spying per se, but in this case people that had nothing to do with EVE and were part of legal entity in Finland were abused. Thus the Server Administrator of the server where Finnexus community resides, pressed this action. If people who do not even play EVE get their **** dragged into some EVE related stuff including their private information, things change.
We are not publicly in a pool of slime called EVEO, going to explain what parts of the community and which personal details we assume told be compromised to a 3rd party. That is for the legal complaint done about this case. Let me ensure you, that it had nothing to do with EVE.
If we ever catch the guy who links our teamspeak meatings that are fully EVE related or gives out ingame stuff, nothing happens. If you abuse the community who has nothing to do with EVE, things change.
For example, my posts are regulary copied to goonfleet forums, including our corporation TS meeting recordings. No actions will be taken on that, if the spy is caught. We fully understand that this is part of the game, EVE. (hi mittani! how about you give me access to space GBS btw?)
OTH if you abuse personal information and posts done by people who are part of the community, but have nothing to do with EVE, do not even post EVE section of the community, we can take it rather seriously.
--- * btw, jags from m.corp. Why don't you little snivel keep your mouth shut about things you do not know about. --
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Meter
Caldari Firing Squad Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.02.25 00:03:00 -
[157]
Edited by: Meter on 25/02/2007 00:00:43
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Jags
Minmatar M. Corp Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.02.25 00:03:00 -
[158]
Originally by: cflux
* btw, jags from m.corp. Why don't you little snivel keep your mouth shut about things you do not know about.
I can comment on how I perceive things and IMO it is embarrassing that people are resorting to legal actions over forums. Regardless of "alliance policies" and all that pish.
As for "little snivel" , at least something made me laugh in this whole sorry episode.
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cflux
Caldari FinFleet Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.02.25 00:06:00 -
[159]
I'm also requesting that this would put as an answer to the original post and thread locked.
This has nothing to do with LV, nor Finfleet members and I thus find it extremely intresting choice of CCP moderation of these forums that an non EVE related subject is allowed to be discussed here thats purpose is to be propaganda against LV.
Our statement has been clear, Finfleet will "allow" spying as normal now, before and into the future. You can hussle our Finfleet section of Finnexus, but not the ry itself.
This legal action was not done about ingame action like OP claims. Thus is should not be part of COAD in the first place. --
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Twenty Eight
The 28th Day
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Posted - 2007.02.25 00:16:00 -
[160]
Edited by: Twenty Eight on 25/02/2007 00:14:10
Originally by: Amerame
I don't think LV is to blame on this one, but Roger Vitesse is a disgrace to the Eve community and if FinFleet want to avoid permanent damage they should kick the guy.
I do like this post, It's retarded on so many levels it actually hurts my brain.
Originally by: Rover Vitesse Okay, my last post on this, gonna clear a few things up, and then you can carry on your little rant.
1) I am not the guy pressing charges. As I have said more than once I agree this action seems excessive over what is, essentially, a game. Wether your ethics decide the line is drawn at in game actions, out of game actions, DOS attacks on TS servers or whatever, is not the point here. Nobody is questioning the ethics of spying, just the legality of what went on.
2) This is not over the ingame actions of anyone, so this has nothing to do with CCP.
3) Nobody has been accused of hacking. What the law covers is the copying of private messages and posting in another electronic medium. When the Goon signed up to read those private messages he clicked a little tickbox saying that he understood that anything he read could not be reproduced in any means (electronic or otherwise). He violated this by copying and pasting those private messages.
4) From what I understand, Boogey was talking about this to a friend (who doesn't even play eve), who happens to be some kind of legal student or junior practitioner. His friend said he was going to examine this for his personal interest. Boogey spoke to the Goon about it (you can read the chatlog on Kutzhisnames forum), as a courtesy measure. If you read it I think it would be fair to say that neither party was taking it too seriously.
5) This all kicked off back in November, and had been long forgotten about on the FINFL forums, it was no big deal and none of our members saw it as such. Half truths and speculation make the Eve-o forums and before you know it, Finnish Law is being discussed as if the sky is falling.
However, carry on, and remember, don't let the truth get in the way of a good rumour. IF you really need to discuss this further with me, contact my solicitor, Mr Lionel Hutz of Springfield.
Amerame I suggest you read the quote above and then apologise to Rover....
I even embolded the part you should pay special attention to incase you manage to miss it!
Lots of love
Foj
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Stoffer Ninjapirate
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.02.25 00:21:00 -
[161]
Originally by: cflux
I'll give you an example:
What does street addresses, banking details, personal phone numbers, social security numbers, locations of ry meetings and alias to real life names of the Finexus RY members have to do with blowing up internet spaceships in game called EVE-Online?
Nothing. Keep it about blowing ships ingame and we don't give a jack-o-nothing.
This legal action was not done about ingame action like OP claims. Thus is should not be part of COAD in the first place. Infact, I do not even know what the legal part was about, only the people in the RY do, in this case the owner of the forum.
If you wish to criticize action taken by the owner of the forum, sure, go ahead, but then the right place definetly is not EVE-Online forums, rather place like Kugutsumen or Slashdot.
I never accessed, tried to access or wanted to access any information of that type. You know just as well as me that it's not available on the FinFleet boards either.
Secondly, this has a lot to do with Finfleet. Stop acting like it's some out of game person that did this, Boogey Trollias did this, one of the leaders of Finfleet.
You did something pathetic, now you got caught and you're trying to lie your way out of it by claiming I got RL info. You're just getting more and more sad.
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cflux
Caldari FinFleet Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.02.25 00:33:00 -
[162]
Edited by: cflux on 25/02/2007 00:31:56
Originally by: Meter
I never accessed, tried to access or wanted to access any information of that type. You know just as well as me that it's not available on the FinFleet boards either.
Secondly, this has a lot to do with Finfleet. Stop acting like it's some out of game person that did this, Boogey Trollias did this, one of the leaders of Finfleet.
You did something pathetic, now you got caught and you're trying to lie your way out of it by claiming I got RL info. You're just getting more and more sad.
First of all, "not available" is false.
For the legal part. That is not for me to decide. Thats between you and the party responsible of doign what was done. I am speaking as a director of finfleet corporation, on an internet spaceship forum about legal action between you and Boogey Trollias, that has nothing to do with us or me. You can twist all you want, as I understood, I have not seen the papers, if they ever reach you, you will know what he thinks you did. Then scan them up and post them here if you so wish.
Using words like "You", making this to be about me, tells wastly more about you than about me.
And I think I was clear about the spying "policy" of Finfleet. I have no further things to comment about this topic. --
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munchy
Prison Break Inc.
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Posted - 2007.02.25 00:34:00 -
[163]
this is still the lowest ive ever seen an entity go. despite your points you know the guy wasnt on your ts to hear u play BF2 or whatever, he did what bob, LV, V, atuk, etcetc have ALL done, spying for EVE. which is a widely accepted part of the game, despite peoples low opinions of the people who use such tactics.
in my opinion, you're taking things too far. ---
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DeathBunny II
The Black Rabbits Fatal Persuasion
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Posted - 2007.02.25 00:43:00 -
[164]
Edited by: DeathBunny II on 25/02/2007 00:40:30 Edited by: DeathBunny II on 25/02/2007 00:40:19 Oh LV, things won't you do to completely embarrass yourself in front of the entire EVE community?
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Stoffer Ninjapirate
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.02.25 00:43:00 -
[165]
Originally by: cflux Edited by: cflux on 25/02/2007 00:31:56
Originally by: Meter
I never accessed, tried to access or wanted to access any information of that type. You know just as well as me that it's not available on the FinFleet boards either.
Secondly, this has a lot to do with Finfleet. Stop acting like it's some out of game person that did this, Boogey Trollias did this, one of the leaders of Finfleet.
You did something pathetic, now you got caught and you're trying to lie your way out of it by claiming I got RL info. You're just getting more and more sad.
First of all, "not available" is false.
For the legal part. That is not for me to decide. Thats between you and the party responsible of doign what was done. I am speaking as a director of finfleet corporation, on an internet spaceship forum about legal action between you and Boogey Trollias, that has nothing to do with us or me. You can twist all you want, as I understood, I have not seen the papers, if they ever reach you, you will know what he thinks you did. Then scan them up and post them here if you so wish.
Using words like "You", making this to be about me, tells wastly more about you than about me.
And I think I was clear about the spying "policy" of Finfleet. I have no further things to comment about this topic.
Boogey, one of the leaders of Finfleet, reports me to the police for reading a board I had every right to read as a member of Finfleet. A board that only contained EVE info, which you're now trying to spin into real life info. Do you think anyone actually believes you guys had bank information on your EVE fittings board? Are you really that daft?
I think you might be the only person in the entire world that believes this has nothing to do with Finfleet. This was done on behalf of your corporation, by one of the leaders.
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TheArchJudge
Gallente Delta team Lotka Volterra
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Posted - 2007.02.25 00:55:00 -
[166]
Originally by: DeathBunny II Edited by: DeathBunny II on 25/02/2007 00:40:30 Edited by: DeathBunny II on 25/02/2007 00:40:19 Oh LV, things won't you do to completely embarrass yourself in front of the entire EVE community?
I really don't see what LV has to do with this other than the fact that its completly ok with you all that its name is associated with a scandal.
Like i said before, when you smack, think happy thoughts, your smack might fly more...
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Streyd
Gallente FinFleet
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Posted - 2007.02.25 00:56:00 -
[167]
Originally by: DeathBunny II Edited by: DeathBunny II on 25/02/2007 00:40:30 Edited by: DeathBunny II on 25/02/2007 00:40:19 Oh LV, things won't you do to completely embarrass yourself in front of the entire EVE community?
Actually NO :) It's just you and your alike that are showing that
A) You don't read what's posted before
B) You Read, but don't understand
C) You read and understand but don't give flying feck and flame some more :)
My GOD you people are ignorant :) All Loving Parents, even if u let your kids play, keep them off from Forums, pretty please :)
Sorry FINFL, cashed my "post once year" ticket
READ - THINK - POST....it's hard and not that many can do it
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Novocaine Hurricane
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.02.25 01:04:00 -
[168]
at the OP: how the case will look: -omfg yur honor! thats such a haxploit! We just got wtfbbqed by a breach of EULA and need compensation from teh devswarm11!!one!1.
nice to be D2 or rapetrain atm This is a flammable substance. Ignite with: Big ego, lighter, or idiotic posts |
Nathaniel Hull
Caldari Finis Lumen
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Posted - 2007.02.25 01:08:00 -
[169]
If they do this Fin Fleet need to get duro tissues for all the crying they are doing......whining babies....oopps did i out that confidential information Better put me on charges in Finland too......too bad im in another country and dont care.
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David Godfrey
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2007.02.25 01:16:00 -
[170]
Sounds like fun lol
---------------------------------
Ghey Seal of Approval |
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Jane Spondogolo
NoobWaffe
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Posted - 2007.02.25 01:18:00 -
[171]
Originally by: cflux
.....Finfleet is part of of an legally registered entity, Finnexus r.y., that provides a community for online gaming. "FinNexus community" plays several games and has social activity in all parts of life; ......
Wrong. Finnfleet, along with *every* corporation, character, spaceship, isku, moon, system, or whatever belong to CCP. The player owns precisely nothing.
CCP allow, heck even encourage spying.
Said spy joined the CCP team "Finnfleet", whilst also having a char in CCP team "Goonfleet". Thus the spy was invited to have an account on the teamspeak or forum.
Because it was made explicit or implicit that membership of the finnfleet grants rights to use forum or teamspeak, no crime has been committed.
You could say that the intention wasnt so pure, but courts are lead by judges not psychologists. Judges are rarely so presumptuous as to ask existentialist puzzlers as "Is he authentic".
LV should hang its head in shame.
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Aaron Static
Igneus Auctorita
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Posted - 2007.02.25 01:24:00 -
[172]
Originally by: "Lotka Volterra" blah blah blah blah blah blah blah
Shut up and login so we can shoot you
- Igneus Auctorita Video - |
Gorvan
Minmatar Inuctura Usurpos
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Posted - 2007.02.25 02:36:00 -
[173]
This thread was a complete Joke right? Someone sat around and actually thought the reaction to this thread through and had a jolly good laugh.
Everyone who thinks this complaint is legit needs to be sued by some complete fool who tripped on a hairline ***** in community pavement 200 yards from thier residence.
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Jane Spondogolo
NoobWaffe
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Posted - 2007.02.25 03:21:00 -
[174]
I just realised something hilarious.
Finnfleet lawyer: Your honour , we submit that internet astronaut Stoffer ninjapirate...
Judge: ...ninja pirate...?
Lawyer: Yes ninjapirate sir;- he was copying information from the bulletin board we allowed him to join to the bulletin board of goonfleet , and,..
Judge: How do you know this "ninja pirate" astronaut copied information from your secret internet base to his secret internet base...
Lawyer: Well.. uh... we copied information from theres into ours...
Judge: using a spy?
Lawyer: Uh... sir... uh....
Judge: CASE DISMISSED, AND IN FUTURE DO NOT WEAR A STAR TREK UNIFORM INTO MY COURT AGAIN.
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Gneeznow
Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2007.02.25 03:35:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Jane Spondogolo I just realised something hilarious.
Finnfleet lawyer: Your honour , we submit that internet astronaut Stoffer ninjapirate...
Judge: ...ninja pirate...?
Lawyer: Yes ninjapirate sir;- he was copying information from the bulletin board we allowed him to join to the bulletin board of goonfleet , and,..
Judge: How do you know this "ninja pirate" astronaut copied information from your secret internet base to his secret internet base...
Lawyer: Well.. uh... we copied information from theres into ours...
Judge: using a spy?
Lawyer: Uh... sir... uh....
Judge: CASE DISMISSED, AND IN FUTURE DO NOT WEAR A STAR TREK UNIFORM INTO MY COURT AGAIN.
LOL
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Sigmorhair
Gallente Eisenmetal
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Posted - 2007.02.25 03:37:00 -
[176]
Some little checkbox on a forums has zero real legal standing. Sorry but if anyone who thinks they can sue because someone copy pasted stuff from a private forum regarding a game doesn't have the slightest legal recourse whatsoever.
Needless to say, this along with the cost and risk of being countersued is the actual reason that nothing is going to happen here.
All B.S. being thrown in this forum to the contrary.
I suppose I shouldn't be suprised that an obvious troll thread like this is being left on the forum considering the quality of moderation as of late.
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Frogzuk
Dragonian Freelancers Curse Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.25 03:52:00 -
[177]
Edited by: Frogzuk on 25/02/2007 03:50:00
Originally by: Jags Regardless of the legalities im ****in ashamed to be part of an alliance that is doing this kinds of thing.
I see LV members are now seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, LV and BoB have been doing alot of things that aren't right.
BoB has been spying / hacking and wot not for years, LV got in the same bed with BoB, now they don't like it happening to them they are taking it to court i mean wtf.....
Guys it is a game, but let it serve as a warning to all there are some people out there that are bitter and when things get too bad start clutching at straws !
Shame on LV again, you tarnished reputation has been further tarnished !
Froggy
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ER0X
Pyrrhus Sicarii
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Posted - 2007.02.25 03:56:00 -
[178]
Edited by: ER0X on 25/02/2007 03:54:14
Originally by: Shirei
Originally by: ER0X LetĘs take for example the Server admin of the forum in question. If he has hosted his server in an EU country and is storing personal details other than say an address book of email addys. He has to abide by the EU directive; Directive 96/46/EC on the protection of individuals with regards to the processing of personal data and on the free movement of such data.
Personal data in the context of this legislation are personal details as in names, addresses, phone numbers etc. of people. It is completely irrelevant to this thread. Noone is accusing goons of compiling a list of all the RL names/addresses of LV members without their consent, which would indeed be illegal under EU law.
You cannot remove a section from the post I made, the context of the entire post, take from this implied statement that,... In actual fact the extent or nature of the security compromise is known at this time,.,.,., hence the investigation ,.,.
Make of it as you will. However it is without question that the directive must be followed with regards to information security.
I do not wish to discuss implications as they are mere projections and conjecture on my part. Hence my reluctance to surmise. If the information retrieved, if any personal data is included, then if any information retrieved is passed on to a third party including intellectual property. I.e. memos or correspondence relating to, whatever? It must be considered that this is a breach of such a law, irrespective if names dates places telephone numbers are passed to a third party or not.
The further possibility arises from this scenario that the login details of the member who has access to the forum in question then passes the login details to a third party. The third party then uses the log in details to reverse engineer with php scripting techniques in order to access server areas where personal data is viewable.
The implications are clear and applied to a real life scenario are further subject to international law. This is an interpretation of EU law that I was attempting to isolate.
Let it be known that I have NO opinion on this issue other than the laws in question!
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Stoffer Ninjapirate
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.02.25 04:07:00 -
[179]
Originally by: ER0X Edited by: ER0X on 25/02/2007 03:54:14
Originally by: Shirei
Originally by: ER0X LetĘs take for example the Server admin of the forum in question. If he has hosted his server in an EU country and is storing personal details other than say an address book of email addys. He has to abide by the EU directive; Directive 96/46/EC on the protection of individuals with regards to the processing of personal data and on the free movement of such data.
Personal data in the context of this legislation are personal details as in names, addresses, phone numbers etc. of people. It is completely irrelevant to this thread. Noone is accusing goons of compiling a list of all the RL names/addresses of LV members without their consent, which would indeed be illegal under EU law.
You cannot remove a section from the post I made, the context of the entire post, take from this implied statement that,... In actual fact the extent or nature of the security compromise is known at this time,.,.,., hence the investigation ,.,.
Make of it as you will. However it is without question that the directive must be followed with regards to information security.
I do not wish to discuss implications as they are mere projections and conjecture on my part. Hence my reluctance to surmise. If the information retrieved, if any personal data is included, then if any information retrieved is passed on to a third party including intellectual property. I.e. memos or correspondence relating to, whatever? It must be considered that this is a breach of such a law, irrespective if names dates places telephone numbers are passed to a third party or not.
The further possibility arises from this scenario that the login details of the member who has access to the forum in question then passes the login details to a third party. The third party then uses the log in details to reverse engineer with php scripting techniques in order to access server areas where personal data is viewable.
The implications are clear and applied to a real life scenario are further subject to international law. This is an interpretation of EU law that I was attempting to isolate.
Let it be known that I have NO opinion on this issue other than the laws in question!
That's all fine and dandy. I used my access to report fleet movement, cta times and general info about EVE. I havn't recorded any RL info, I've not aided any "reverse engineering" (which I have no idea what is) and Boogey knows this. He's just been throwing around these fancy expressions and lies because it wasn't too popular to say that he went to the police because of EVE.
I've done nothing, which I suspect is why Boogey told Finfleet tonight that he would not pursue the matter further. Not that I mind, going to court with something fabricated is another issue entirely.
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Boliknar
The Shadow Order Hydra Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.25 04:20:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Xendie
Originally by: Gurgling CEO
Originally by: BlackHorizon Edited by: BlackHorizon on 24/02/2007 05:50:19 Just give the Finish a separate cluster like the chinese if this lawsuit has legal merit in Finland.
Actually FinFleet havent been finnish only corp for a long time, so god knows who started this crap.
iirc the webserver/teamspeak server that was accessed illegally was in finland thus under the jurisdiction of finnish laws. doesnt matter if the members of the corp are 98% samoan or whatever.
and for blackhorizon, criminal charges not a lawsuit. big difference.
First of all for Pre-Texting to even sort of apply you have to establish that a lie or untruth was told. This case there is no lie that was told to gain information. YOu automatically assume its illegal because you do not like his activities. He was a legitimate member of LV he accessed through typical information that was available to every other LV member. No lies were told in the information he gave to become a member so therefore it is not Pre-Texting.
Before you try to throw arround terms like illegal and start quoting case law you really should do some research.
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Euripides Das
House Of Troy
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Posted - 2007.02.25 04:37:00 -
[181]
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=481166
LV sure hasn't been making many friends lately.
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Jane Spondogolo
NoobWaffe
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Posted - 2007.02.25 05:33:00 -
[182]
Originally by: ER0X
The further possibility arises from this scenario that the login details of the member who has access to the forum in question then passes the login details to a third party. The third party then uses the log in details to reverse engineer with php scripting techniques in order to access server areas where personal data is viewable.
Haaaaang on mr internet lawyer. This is starting to verge into the realms of defamation here. The guy in question, a member of LV, was given a user name and password, and specifically access to the eve-online segment on the forum. To the best of my understanding, theres no implication that he 'hacked' anything more than that. When you guys talk about credit cards, and whatnot, you guys are suggesting your members made that info available on the forum there. Quite simply I dont believe you. Now, considering LV have had , and apparently still do, spys in goonfleet (after all , how do you KNOW stuff was copied?) , you guys also cant claim clean hands here.
Now the tickbox doesnt mean anything. Was there a digital signature or some sort of proof that HE was the one who agreed. Can you say 100% someone else didnt click it, and give the account to him. Is there a clause saying the account cant be transfered? Did you have a physical witness. Seriously, EULAS for forums mean jack all. Especially when most state the punishment is losing the account. Well guess what you kicked him out. Breach remedied as per 'pre agreed' e-contract.
And precisely what jurastiction did the e-contract become breached in. Dow Jones vs Joe Gutnick specifies publication occurs in the country of the consumer. One cant sue him in finland dude, only in whatever country he is in.
Now considering that there are no material losses (They have NO assets in eve-online, as I've stated, as only CCP do), no evidence beyond reasonable doubt that it was him, and not , say, some disgruntled ex LVer that agreed to the click agreememt, no clear jurastiction, its a flipping computer game, and so on, MAYBE , just just maybe, its more than a little possible that this is a vexatious complaint, and Stoffer ought be apologised to post-haste. He's got a hell of a case to countersue for harassment, and with 2 lawyers running goonfleet, he's certainly got the resources to do so.
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Victoria DeBurr
Gallente Renyn Supply Company
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Posted - 2007.02.25 05:46:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Rover Vitesse Okay, my last post on this, gonna clear a few things up, and then you can carry on your little rant. Posted - 24/02/2007 20:52:00
Then he posts this:
Originally by: Rover Vitesse
I don't know wether you're being deliberatley obtuse, stupid, or you just haven't read the thread. I'll pretend the last, and suggest you read it again, before even throwing baseless accusations about. Read in particular my post on page five where I explain a few things for the hard of thinking, Mr Ameropey. Posted - 2007.02.24 23:44:00
Let me repeat this.
Originally by: Rover Vitesse Okay, my last post on this, gonna clear a few things up, and then you can carry on your little rant. Posted - 24/02/2007 20:52:00
So why hasn't LV kicked them out and set them to -10? Are they scared, or does LV support their actions?
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prathe
Minmatar Omega Enterprises Dusk and Dawn
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Posted - 2007.02.25 06:16:00 -
[184]
not enough internet lawyers and cry babies in this thread
time for the click lock i think
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Mi Lai
Black Lance Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2007.02.25 06:21:00 -
[185]
Even if LV would have the so called 'moral high-ground' in this, it's still pathetic to degrade to this level.
Even if their accusations are fully acknowledged, you know CCP isnt going to do anyhting about it. Just look at broken complex-farming, using 'spawned T2 BPO's' for 6 months and whatever.
Just frakking die with some dignity FFS. You had a great run, you been respected by many and feared by some. You forged and then lost a coalition of Alliances. You fought an adversary close to extinction, and have been beaten back. Now just go and put out your last breath in peace.
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Tod Klemp
Gallente K-Street Project
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Posted - 2007.02.25 06:27:00 -
[186]
Edited by: Tod Klemp on 25/02/2007 06:24:31
Originally by: Frogzuk Edited by: Frogzuk on 25/02/2007 03:50:00
Originally by: Jags Regardless of the legalities im ****in ashamed to be part of an alliance that is doing this kinds of thing.
I see LV members are now seeing the light at the end of the tunnel, LV and BoB have been doing alot of things that aren't right.
BoB has been spying / hacking and wot not for years, LV got in the same bed with BoB, now they don't like it happening to them they are taking it to court i mean wtf.....
Guys it is a game, but let it serve as a warning to all there are some people out there that are bitter and when things get too bad start clutching at straws !
Shame on LV again, you tarnished reputation has been further tarnished !
Froggy
How about you STFU on EO and go back to squabbling with the rest of your ****ty alliance memebrs about running missions in empire via your alliance mails? Maybe you can also leak to goonfleet your inentions to strong arm your way with them for the 0-w refinery. You and your alliance are beyond a joke and shouldnt even be allowed to read, let alone post here.
The rest of this forum has no reached a new low. I hope everyone is happy to be associated with the lowest of the low here.
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INZi
coracao ardente Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2007.02.25 08:39:00 -
[187]
oh hi! i are in your computahrz haxingz ur emo
please chill! eve is getting out of hand
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Zhuge Liang
Forum Moderator Interstellar Services Department
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Posted - 2007.02.25 09:12:00 -
[188]
This forum is for the discussion of ingame corporation and alliance politics.
It will not be moved to Out of Pod Experience as we do not allow RL politics or threads of a political nature there either.
Thread locked.
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