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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5101
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Posted - 2016.05.19 16:20:56 -
[61] - Quote
Uriam Khanid wrote:you are completly wrong, drone scoop chip and drone enhancer very-very useful even w/o DDA. Application and projection of drone damage is very important. This is allow you to strike with hammer (heavy's) with great precision. From my observation it looks like drones have some abilities of missile system. More tracking = more damage, also looks like flying dones benefit from range (heavy hits from 30-40km; medium from 20km). Yes, this is what I said - there's no dedicated drone tracking rig (only drone scope rigs that increase optimal range). And yes, while you do have omnidirectional tracking enhancers - they also consume a valuable low slot. Omnidirectional links are the best, however - as you can boost optimal and falloff or focus solely on tracking.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Aplier Shivra
35
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Posted - 2016.05.19 16:27:02 -
[62] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Aplier Shivra wrote:[quote=elitatwo] .... You also seem to have no clue how stacking penalties or diminishing returns works either. You done insulting me?
Considering that you stated that adding 8 dps mods to a ship would make it OP, I think that was a fair observation for me to make. I did not intend to insult you, but to make corrections to errors or misleading information throughout your "guide". |
elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1216
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Posted - 2016.05.19 17:39:47 -
[63] - Quote
Aplier Shivra wrote:elitatwo wrote:Aplier Shivra wrote:[quote=elitatwo] .... You also seem to have no clue how stacking penalties or diminishing returns works either. You done insulting me? Considering that you stated that adding 8 dps mods to a ship would make it OP, I think that was a fair observation for me to make. I did not intend to insult you, but to make corrections to errors or misleading information throughout your "guide".
I made that sarcastic comment about the Gila nerf because I still very strongly believe that it was way too much. Yes the Gila could do a lot of damage, when the drones and missiles arrived, not instant.
All the while a 1200dps Thorax with an immobilizer is okay and that damage is instant, with no chance of getting away.
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5101
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Posted - 2016.05.19 18:00:18 -
[64] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:I made that sarcastic comment about the Gila nerf because I still very strongly believe that it was way too much. Yes the Gila could do a lot of damage, when the drones and missiles arrived, not instant.
All the while a 1200dps Thorax with an immobilizer is okay and that damage is instant, with no chance of getting away. I guess that went over my head because the impression I got was that the Gilla was overpowered.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Aplier Shivra
35
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Posted - 2016.05.20 01:09:47 -
[65] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Aplier Shivra wrote: Considering that you stated that adding 8 dps mods to a ship would make it OP, I think that was a fair observation for me to make. I did not intend to insult you, but to make corrections to errors or misleading information throughout your "guide".
I made that sarcastic comment about the Gila nerf because I still very strongly believe that it was way too much. Yes the Gila could do a lot of damage, when the drones and missiles arrived, not instant. All the while a 1200dps Thorax with an immobilizer is okay and that damage is instant, with no chance of getting away.
Then it was a misunderstanding, sorry about that. However, sarcasm already doesn't translate well over the internet, especially when placed in the context of an informative guide. The above poster is further proof of this. |
elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1216
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Posted - 2016.05.20 02:19:47 -
[66] - Quote
Aplier Shivra wrote:...Then it was a misunderstanding, sorry about that. However, sarcasm already doesn't translate well over the internet, especially when placed in the context of an informative guide. The above poster is further proof of this.
I also exaggerate every now and then to make a point but you are right, it doesn't apparently.
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Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5108
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Posted - 2016.05.20 20:03:47 -
[67] - Quote
The general rule is that Missiles start with 100% damage and go down from there while Drones and Guns start at 51-100% damage and go up. With perfect skills and the right modules, rigs and implants you can apply enough damage to destroy any size target. Whether you survive the attempt is another discussion entirely...
Most of my experience is in PvE, and what I've found is that missiles are often better at destroying larger targets while guns excel at volleying smaller targets. Drones fall somewhere in the middle depending on whether you're using sentries, combat drones or some combination thereof. Hulls that receive a damage application bonus to one or more weapon systems (Typhoon, Dominix) tend to fare better than hulls that do not (Nestor, Rattlesnake). Because these bonuses aren't stacking penalized they becomes part of the "base" ship bonus and are virtually impossible to replicate on non-bonuses hulls.
You will never get the same damage application from say a Rattlesnake with either drones or missiles that you will from a Navy Raven or Dominix, and it often proves an effort in futility trying.
I'm glad this thread cropped up as I really didn't have any idea as to the damage potential from wreckking shots and thought the grazing, etc. type of shots actually had less of an impact (single as opposed to double digits, which I was a bit taken aback with). It really outlined just how important tracking speed, optimal/falloff and various EW such as webs and painters had on determining the quality of final hits. When players talked about Paladins doing mostly smashing hits with Mega Pulse Lasers and Scorch I freely admit that I didn't get it. Now I do.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Sean Parisi
Blackrise Vanguard
731
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Posted - 2016.05.22 09:23:44 -
[68] - Quote
What I am more interested about is the benefit of a tracking enhancer vs a damage mod. Ie: We all know that the tracking enhancer provides additional projection - but how does the tracking effect the total applied dps vs raw paper dps? Also does the superior tracking increase the likelihood of getting a wrecking shot or is that a flat value %?
The thing to consider with Alpha ships is that typically they have more DPS at the start of a fight - First artillery shot is instant and applies 10x more damage then say the first blaster shot. But as the curve extends longer into the fight the DPS of the blaster boat catches up. |
Aplier Shivra
36
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Posted - 2016.05.22 09:44:39 -
[69] - Quote
Sean Parisi wrote:What I am more interested about is the benefit of a tracking enhancer vs a damage mod. Ie: We all know that the tracking enhancer provides additional projection - but how does the tracking effect the total applied dps vs raw paper dps? Also does the superior tracking increase the likelihood of getting a wrecking shot or is that a flat value %?
The thing to consider with Alpha ships is that typically they have more DPS at the start of a fight - First artillery shot is instant and applies 10x more damage then say the first blaster shot. But as the curve extends longer into the fight the DPS of the blaster boat catches up.
Taken from the EVE uni wiki on turret damage:
Damage Upgrade module, T2 (such as Gyrostabilizer, Heat Sink etc): The 1st T2 Damage Upgrade module increase damage with +23.5% The 2nd T2 Damage Upgrade module increase damage with +20% The 3rd T2 Damage Upgrade module increase damage with +13% The 4th T2 Damage Upgrade module increase damage with +6.5%
Tracking Enchancer, T2: When Angular velocity = 25% of your Tracking: +9.5% more tracking is the same as +1.1% damage When Angular velocity = 50% of your Tracking: +9.5% more tracking is the same as +4.2% damage When Angular velocity = 75% of your Tracking: +9.5% more tracking is the same as +9.5% damage When Angular velocity = 100% of your Tracking: +9.5% more tracking is the same as +16.6% damage
The TE also increases dps gained from range if you were shooting in falloff before, but is a much more complicated formula due to increasing both optimal and falloff, whose values differ from turret to turret.
In general, using dps mods for the first two low slots is almost always the best choice. If you expect to be shooting a lot of targets that will give you accuracy issues (either from range or tracking) then a TE will probably out-perform a 3rd dps mod. It's very hard to model manually though, because dps mods are universal increases, while the TE will only improve application. The best suggestion I can make is to create your fit of choice in a program like EFT, and make several variations with different combinations of dps mods/TEs, then create a dps graph that compares those against a frig, cruiser, and battleship. The visual you get from that should give a better explanation than any raw math formulas.
What you'll notice from doing this is that a damage mod raises up the whole curve without changing its shape, while a TE will broaden the dps curve. So a damage mod will increase the peak of the curve allowing you to do better dps in an optimal situation. A TE instead bring the edges of the curve higher up, allowing you to do better dps in sub-optimal situations.
EDIT: Also forgot to add that wrecking shots (300%) are a flat chance of 1%, so long as there is at least a 1% chance to hit. However, higher accuracy does also increase the rate at which you get Smashing (125-150%) and other higher value shots. Again from the wiki, "But also, the damage interval will change as well. That interval is actually from 50% but only up to (50% + hit chance). So if your hit chance is 70%, not only will you miss a few shots, the shots that do hit are now in the damage interval of 50% to 120%." |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5114
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Posted - 2016.05.22 23:37:57 -
[70] - Quote
Aplier Shivra wrote:In general, using dps mods for the first two low slots is almost always the best choice. If you expect to be shooting a lot of targets that will give you accuracy issues (either from range or tracking) then a TE will probably out-perform a 3rd dps mod. It's very hard to model manually though, because dps mods are universal increases, while the TE will only improve application. The best suggestion I can make is to create your fit of choice in a program like EFT, and make several variations with different combinations of dps mods/TEs, then create a dps graph that compares those against a frig, cruiser, and battleship. The visual you get from that should give a better explanation than any raw math formulas. Interesting. You rarely see tracking enhancers as most gun platforms are armor fits (they're more prevalent in shield fits). What's worth noting is that on fits that do utilize tracking computers you almost never see them tracking-scripted. So one has to wonder how much potential DPS they're giving up in the process.
I'm going to play around a bit with a pair of omnidirectional tracking enhancers and a tracking-scripted omnidirectional tracking link to see what if any impact or benefit this has on drone performance. I suspect (although cannot yet confirm) that utilizing drones with better overall tracking may be more advantageous than resistant-specific drones.
I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
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Amanda Chan
Error 404 Corporation not found Electroshock Therapy
117
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Posted - 2016.05.24 02:01:15 -
[71] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:Amanda Chan wrote:elitatwo wrote:The difference being that no missile in EVE can or will ever do 100% damage. More about sad things later. Amanda Chan wrote:I find this statement rather erroneous. It is easier to make a comp that applies 100% damage with missiles then it is with guns. No it is not. Amanda Chan wrote:Examples below, for the sake of simplicity assume all level 5 skills.
Navy Raven fit with 2x T2 Rigor,1x T2 Flare and Using Fury cruise missiles. That missile has a 210 explosion radius and 104.4 explosion velocity..... I can make a Barghest apply ~80% cruise missile damage to a linked machariel, which will have a really bad day then but let me get this straightened. If that Raven Navy Issue can do ~7000hp em, thermal, explosive or kinetic damage at once for example, the following will happen, when you shoot at a carrier. Let this Raven shoot nova fury cruise missiles. When you group all 8 launchers, it will show you a group missile damage of ~7000hp explosive damage. Your current target is an Archon and you fire your first shot and nothing happens and the launchers are cycling and bam, you can see your text box showing you a hit of ~3500hp damage. You now think, that this is not enough and load mjolnir fury ones. Shoot, wait and there you go you get a damage hit of 5745hp damage. Should that latter not have been ~7000hp? What happened there? The Archon started moving and has a 100000000mn afterbuner on and while that Archon has a signature radius of ~ Long Island, she accelerated to ~120m/s.
Was this a serious reply or just a random troll? Either you don't understand what resists are or.....I'm not sure are you just making up numbers to suit your fancy? |
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
5122
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Posted - 2016.05.24 02:44:36 -
[72] - Quote
Amanda Chan wrote:Was this a serious reply or just a random troll? Either you don't understand what resists are or.....I'm not sure are you just making up numbers to suit your fancy? I think this was already covered a few posts back...
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elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1225
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Posted - 2016.05.28 08:45:42 -
[73] - Quote
Okay I couldn't believe but after 5 years of using turrets, I had my first wrecking shot in optimal range.
Ship: Nightmare, tachyon beam laser II, multifrequency crystals, range: less than 15km.
7423hp damage.
I did know that beam hurt but ouch!!
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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