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Depressing Myth Busting: War Declaration. Non-consentual PvP is dead.

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Gaven Blands	Posted - 2007.02.24 15:29:00 - [1] Just had the WarDec followed by all members instantly leaving and creating a new corp. Ya know the one. So, following on from the popular myth that this is an exploit, I petition it. And guess what.... It is NOT an exploit. I can't post Verbatim what a SENIOR GM said to me, so that sucks, but corp jumping to avoid me is no exploit and is legal and perfectly valid for opponents to do that till the end of time. New corps, rejoining old corps, it doesn't matter. It is legitimate war avoidance. What IS and exploit:- Repeatedly joining and leaving a corporation during war to hopefully create a display glitch on the overview/local of your opponent. So there you have it folks. Where you read "non consentual PvP", CCP mean... WoW. FTW. It costs you isk to declare a "duel", and costs them nothing to decline it. It's like WoW, only you have to grind more to duel. I hope Darkfall isn't that way when it gets here. Eve: Cheats prosper.
Majin82 Caldari g guild	Posted - 2007.02.24 15:37:00 - [2] For a pure carebear corp of casual players, being deced just so the decing corp can get some easy kills is very annyoing. I can understand droping your corp and starting again. But the abuse factor is huge and I kinda agree it shouldn't be allowed. ------------------------------------- The difference between a Pirate and an Anti-Pirate is that an Anti-Pirate fights ships fitted with guns! Passive Drake For The Win
wrere	Posted - 2007.02.24 15:38:00 - [3] So..every time the "to be the gankee" finds a way to avoid the gankage the gankers go "huh???"..."wtf???". Its funny. EVE is more then just wars all the time. I`d say try some missioning , its a beautifull thing...hurry before they nerf them. Enjoy.
St Dragon Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2007.02.24 15:40:00 - [4] Originally by: Gaven Blands Just had the WarDec followed by all members instantly leaving and creating a new corp. Ya know the one. So, following on from the popular myth that this is an exploit, I petition it. And guess what.... It is NOT an exploit. I can't post Verbatim what a SENIOR GM said to me, so that sucks, but corp jumping to avoid me is no exploit and is legal and perfectly valid for opponents to do that till the end of time. New corps, rejoining old corps, it doesn't matter. It is legitimate war avoidance. What IS and exploit:- Repeatedly joining and leaving a corporation during war to hopefully create a display glitch on the overview/local of your opponent. So there you have it folks. Where you read "non consentual PvP", CCP mean... WoW. FTW. It costs you isk to declare a "duel", and costs them nothing to decline it. It's like WoW, only you have to grind more to duel. I hope Darkfall isn't that way when it gets here. HAHAHAHAAHA - Good for them. ----------------------------------------------- "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god." -- Jean Rostand
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2007.02.24 15:51:00 - [5] Yes, picking on the meek is cowardly. No arguments. However I was picking on somebody who has said that next time I harrass him he'll just destroy me rather than play around with me. Local smacktard. Get's his wardec. Leaves his corp. The occupational nuisance, is legitimised. He may continue like that forever. And that is as sad as sad gets. Eve: Cheats prosper.
Callistus Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.24 15:51:00 - [6] I think you carebears are missing the point. Avoiding war decs by disbanding your corp and creating another has always been an exploit, whether you like it or not. If this is true then CCP need to sort their GMs out, or explain why on earth this decison was made. -------------- [Coreli Corporation Mainfrane]
wrere	Posted - 2007.02.24 15:56:00 - [7] Nobody is missing any points here.
Hauler McTote	Posted - 2007.02.24 15:58:00 - [8] Edited by: Hauler McTote on 24/02/2007 15:54:36 How is it any more lame than corp A joining Privs, wardeccing someone, then leaving the Alliance, and cancelling the dec, not sticking around to take their lumps? Double standard.
Roy Batty68 Caldari Immortal Dead	Posted - 2007.02.24 15:58:00 - [9] I still think there should be some comprimise game mechanic implemented to even this out. Like make the war dec'ed stay a valid war target at least for a couple days after they leave the war dec'ed corp. War decs are just too easily avoided imo. ------------------- Charisma
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2007.02.24 16:00:00 - [10] If the carebears would actually talk to each other:- a) They could actually fight wars. But more importantly:- b) Privateers would be totally screwed if everybody they declared on simply disbanded. Why doesn't the "Surrender" option work in WarDecs then, eh, CCP, why not, eh, because if war avoidance is prime, then it should, okay? And can we get rid of the concord bribe seeing as it is Cost Free to avoid a war? How bout that? Eve: Cheats prosper.

Slash Harnet Minmatar Industrial Services INC	Posted - 2007.02.24 16:02:00 - [11] It's just like high sec. ore thieves hiding in noob corps. I hate it, but I can't see a way to prevent it. signature removed ... Pirlouit I finally got my sig nerfed once, I feel like a forum warrior!
Nero Scuro Caldari Jejaikaro Corporation	Posted - 2007.02.24 16:08:00 - [12] Edited by: Nero Scuro on 24/02/2007 16:05:43 Easy solution; War dec a corp, everyone in that corp is flagged to you for the next... uhh, 7 days? Yeah, why not. If you join the wardecced corp you get the flag, if you leave the corp the flag remains. When the week is up you pay your wardec fee and everyone still in the corp gets flagged for another week. ___ "have u seen my employ history? u better go as i have more friends in thisgame then in my real life"
oniplE Cereal Killerz deadspace society	Posted - 2007.02.24 16:09:00 - [13] Edited by: oniplE on 24/02/2007 16:05:35 How is this an exploit? You pick on people that obviously wont or cant fight, and they use game mechanics to avoid you. Why dont you move to lowsec or 0.0 where you can do some real pvp instead of carebear hauler ganking..
Hotice	Posted - 2007.02.24 16:09:00 - [14] Eve before anything is a game, people play it for fun. When they don't want to fight a war that came upon them for no reason, then it is their choice. CCP in no way to control that or mark it as an exploit. It is simple a statment from the said corp to you as they don't want to play with you. You think it is unfair but means nothing to them. This is the truth and nothing you can do about it. Certainly calling them cheaters or carebears wouldn't change a thing. Either find a corp that is willing to fight you, or go war dec 20+ more corps at same time. I'm sure there will be a few that is willing to fight. Maybe go war dec Bob, I'm sure they are willing to fight you.
Nero Scuro Caldari Jejaikaro Corporation	Posted - 2007.02.24 16:12:00 - [15] Originally by: oniplE Edited by: oniplE on 24/02/2007 16:05:35 How is this an exploit? You pick on people that obviously wont or cant fight, and they use game mechanics to avoid you. Why dont you move to lowsec or 0.0 where you can do some real pvp instead of carebear hauler ganking.. Heard of consequences for actions? It's what EVE's about. Someone smack talks you - wardec them. Someone is undercutting your market prices - wardec. Mining all the good roids - yup. It gets exploited for cheap kills, but so does everything. That's not a reason to remove it. ___ "have u seen my employ history? u better go as i have more friends in thisgame then in my real life"
Gaven Blands	Posted - 2007.02.24 16:12:00 - [16] Which bit of "he said he wanted to fight me" are you struggling with? If you can't read, don't write. Eve: Cheats prosper.
Nero Scuro Caldari Jejaikaro Corporation	Posted - 2007.02.24 16:17:00 - [17] Originally by: Hotice Eve before anything is a game, people play it for fun. When they don't want to fight a war that came upon them for no reason, then it is their choice. CCP in no way to control that or mark it as an exploit. It is simple a statment from the said corp to you as they don't want to play with you. You think it is unfair but means nothing to them. This is the truth and nothing you can do about it. Certainly calling them cheaters or carebears wouldn't change a thing. Either find a corp that is willing to fight you, or go war dec 20+ more corps at same time. I'm sure there will be a few that is willing to fight. Maybe go war dec Bob, I'm sure they are willing to fight you. You're playing the wrong game. That isn't an insult, I'm not saying you're too stupid to play or anything, but it's true. EVE is a game about consequences and interaction. You can't decide to shut someone out because you don't like them, or think they're not going to help you personally become richer. That's not the point. If people aren't responsible for their own actions the game degenerates into WoW. It's already happening with stunted death penalties. People don't care if they act like smacktards because retribution only means at worse death, and there are too many ISK faucets in game making death meaningless. ___ "have u seen my employ history? u better go as i have more friends in thisgame then in my real life"
Humpalot	Posted - 2007.02.24 16:19:00 - [18] If you think about it you do not want it to be an exploit to leave a corp due to a war dec. That is how you "win" some wars. Make it so uncomfortable/expensive for the people in the corp that they jump ship and the corp collapses. Further, imagine someone war deccing your corp forever. You are expected to be stuck like that forever (or at least at the whim of the people deccing you)? Not a good way to play the game. That said jumping ship and hopping on another one 10 seconds later is bogus. If you are war decced and leave you should be forced to live in a newbie corp for a week at which point you could join whomever will have you. As for the Privateer style where they are the agressors if your corp pulls out in the middle of a war you/they started then you should get killrights against you for a week from everyone you started a war with.
oniplE Cereal Killerz deadspace society	Posted - 2007.02.24 16:29:00 - [19] Edited by: oniplE on 24/02/2007 16:26:38 Originally by: Gaven Blands Which bit of "he said he wanted to fight me" are you struggling with? If you can't read, don't write. What are you whining about anyway? He told you he wanted to fight, if i had to wardec everyone who talked like that, i'd have more wartargets than privateers. You called his bluff, he folded, you win. Obviously the guy is a coward, that alone should be a victory for you. I never said this tactic is good behaviour, its weak, but its far from an exploit. paying customers can change corp whenever they want, for whatever reason.
Gareth Angel Blue Star Enterprises	Posted - 2007.02.24 16:33:00 - [20] Originally by: Callistus ...Avoiding war decs by disbanding your corp and creating another has always been an exploit, whether you like it or not... No, it's not. I have been on both sides of this discussion. I had my own 'grief-corp' for a while (yes, you are grievers, no need to deny it) and when corps dodged out wardecs we even petitioned them to CCP for wardodging. I guess you already know what the answer was I got, eh? So then you can do two things - complain and whine about it on the forums that there are actually players in Eve that do not share your vision of fun and try to avoid the pew-pew game, or take it as it is and wardec the next corp. We even got some advice that we should try and keep wardeccing the new created corps over and over again. At some point those guys will be done with moving stuff and fixing roles and all that, and fight back, OR they will hide in a n00b-corp. Which is what you want, because your wardec was done to cause the corp to stop functioning, right? No? Then you truly ARE a griever and should not post stupidity like this. And please don't come whining here that each wardec costs you money. Cuz if you can't pay those fees, then stop being a griever and mine until you have enough isk to be able to afford your decs. All in all it comes to this - there are people that want to shoot, and there are people who don't. If you want to shoot you can always find targets. Apparently not the corps that DON't want to shoot. So I ask you now - are you too afraid to wardec corps of which you know they will fight back? Cuz I think you are... Eve is NOT all about guys that want easy kills, sorry to spoil your game for you.

Richard Aiel Caldari The Funkstars Guild	Posted - 2007.02.24 16:34:00 - [21] Originally by: wrere So..every time the "to be the gankee" finds a way to avoid the gankage the gankers go "huh???"..."wtf???". Its funny. EVE is more then just wars all the time. I`d say try some missioning , its a beautifull thing...hurry before they nerf them. Enjoy. nah... whenever gankees get away gankers go "OMGHAXEXPLOITCHEATEZ!!!!!ONEONEONE" looks around the restaurant then look at his mate "I wouldnt be greatly surprised if a little band came in and started playing hums the Star Wars Cantina theme"
Umiji GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2007.02.24 16:47:00 - [22] Edited by: Umiji on 24/02/2007 16:45:34
Callistus Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.24 16:53:00 - [23] Originally by: Gareth Angel Originally by: Callistus ...Avoiding war decs by disbanding your corp and creating another has always been an exploit, whether you like it or not... No, it's not. I have been on both sides of this discussion. I had my own 'grief-corp' for a while (yes, you are grievers, no need to deny it) and when corps dodged out wardecs we even petitioned them to CCP for wardodging. I guess you already know what the answer was I got, eh? So then you can do two things - complain and whine about it on the forums that there are actually players in Eve that do not share your vision of fun and try to avoid the pew-pew game, or take it as it is and wardec the next corp. We even got some advice that we should try and keep wardeccing the new created corps over and over again. At some point those guys will be done with moving stuff and fixing roles and all that, and fight back, OR they will hide in a n00b-corp. Which is what you want, because your wardec was done to cause the corp to stop functioning, right? No? Then you truly ARE a griever and should not post stupidity like this. And please don't come whining here that each wardec costs you money. Cuz if you can't pay those fees, then stop being a griever and mine until you have enough isk to be able to afford your decs. All in all it comes to this - there are people that want to shoot, and there are people who don't. If you want to shoot you can always find targets. Apparently not the corps that DON't want to shoot. So I ask you now - are you too afraid to wardec corps of which you know they will fight back? Cuz I think you are... Eve is NOT all about guys that want easy kills, sorry to spoil your game for you. I'm sorry; WTF? Was that post aimed at me? When did I say I was a griefer? When on earth did I say I was too afraid to dec corps that will fight back? When did I whine that war decs cost money? I'm with Nero on this issue. EVE is a game of consequences. If you smacktalk someone, if you mine their belts, you shoot their npcs, you undercut their market prices or any other action then you should be forced to accept the consequences. War deccing is one of these concequences and avoiding it by leaving your corp and creating another should be an exploit (I was under the impression it still was.) -------------- [Coreli Corporation Mainfrane]
Humpalot	Posted - 2007.02.24 17:00:00 - [24] Originally by: Callistus War deccing is one of these concequences and avoiding it by leaving your corp and creating another should be an exploit (I was under the impression it still was.) So if I create a corp with an ALT and war dec your corp and just keep paying the fees (never actually leave station to actually fight) I can keep you and your corpmates in Coreli Corporation forever? I mean if you quit that would be an exploit so you're stuck right? Or at least that is how you think it should be?
Gareth Angel Blue Star Enterprises	Posted - 2007.02.24 17:05:00 - [25] Originally by: Callistus Originally by: Gareth Angel Originally by: Callistus ...Avoiding war decs by disbanding your corp and creating another has always been an exploit, whether you like it or not... No, it's not. I have been on both sides of this discussion. I had my own 'grief-corp' for a while (yes, you are grievers, no need to deny it) and when corps dodged out wardecs we even petitioned them to CCP for wardodging. I guess you already know what the answer was I got, eh? So then you can do two things - complain and whine about it on the forums that there are actually players in Eve that do not share your vision of fun and try to avoid the pew-pew game, or take it as it is and wardec the next corp. We even got some advice that we should try and keep wardeccing the new created corps over and over again. At some point those guys will be done with moving stuff and fixing roles and all that, and fight back, OR they will hide in a n00b-corp. Which is what you want, because your wardec was done to cause the corp to stop functioning, right? No? Then you truly ARE a griever and should not post stupidity like this. And please don't come whining here that each wardec costs you money. Cuz if you can't pay those fees, then stop being a griever and mine until you have enough isk to be able to afford your decs. All in all it comes to this - there are people that want to shoot, and there are people who don't. If you want to shoot you can always find targets. Apparently not the corps that DON't want to shoot. So I ask you now - are you too afraid to wardec corps of which you know they will fight back? Cuz I think you are... Eve is NOT all about guys that want easy kills, sorry to spoil your game for you. I'm sorry; WTF? Was that post aimed at me? When did I say I was a griefer? When on earth did I say I was too afraid to dec corps that will fight back? When did I whine that war decs cost money? I'm with Nero on this issue. EVE is a game of consequences. If you smacktalk someone, if you mine their belts, you shoot their npcs, you undercut their market prices or any other action then you should be forced to accept the consequences. War deccing is one of these concequences and avoiding it by leaving your corp and creating another should be an exploit (I was under the impression it still was.) Woooo.... easy there, tiger! Learn to read between the lines... The quoted part was the only part of my post that referred to you, as was my response of telling you that it's NOT an exploit to dodge a war by switching corp. I also told that I know that because I tried it myself, with my own grief-corp. And yes, at least I admit that we were wardeccing corps purely for our own fun. Some fought back and some didn't. Best part in this is - players still have a CHOICE! I think that should be the case at all times.
Nacho Star	Posted - 2007.02.24 17:06:00 - [26] Originally by: Callistus War deccing is one of these concequences and avoiding it by leaving your corp and creating another should be an exploit (I was under the impression it still was.) Uhh...What are you gonna tell them??? "Hello Mr. Corporation Member. Its illegal for you to quit your corporation. Sorry, but you have to play our way. You are locked to your corporation forever since you are War Decced." Use some common sense here...
Callistus Gallente Coreli Corporation Corelum Syndicate	Posted - 2007.02.24 17:19:00 - [27] Originally by: Gareth Angel Woooo.... easy there, tiger! Learn to read between the lines... The quoted part was the only part of my post that referred to you, as was my response of telling you that it's NOT an exploit to dodge a war by switching corp. I also told that I know that because I tried it myself, with my own grief-corp. And yes, at least I admit that we were wardeccing corps purely for our own fun. Some fought back and some didn't. Best part in this is - players still have a CHOICE! I think that should be the case at all times. Ok, I just wasn't sure if your enitre post was aimed at the quote or not. Originally by: Nacho Star Originally by: Callistus War deccing is one of these concequences and avoiding it by leaving your corp and creating another should be an exploit (I was under the impression it still was.) Uhh...What are you gonna tell them??? "Hello Mr. Corporation Member. Its illegal for you to quit your corporation. Sorry, but you have to play our way. You are locked to your corporation forever since you are War Decced." Use some common sense here... Individual members leaving a corporation is of course allowed, hell, its one of the things that the aggressor corp would hope will happen to the decced corp. The exploit comes when the entire corp disbands and reforms in an identical manner except for the name change, purely to avoid the war dec and continue on as normal. -------------- [Coreli Corporation Mainfrane]
Lord Sid Minmatar Lordless	Posted - 2007.02.24 17:23:00 - [28] Edited by: Lord Sid on 24/02/2007 17:21:29 Originally by: Nacho Star Originally by: Callistus War deccing is one of these concequences and avoiding it by leaving your corp and creating another should be an exploit (I was under the impression it still was.) Uhh...What are you gonna tell them??? "Hello Mr. Corporation Member. Its illegal for you to quit your corporation. Sorry, but you have to play our way. You are locked to your corporation forever since you are War Decced." Use some common sense here... That's actually very reasonable, but if thats the case I would say war dec fees need to go up. The problem with this obvious cheating of leaving a corp and reforming another one is the Pirating corp doesn't get the chance to demand a ransom. I would say if the decced corp was forced to pay a ransom then they could disband or be undecced. Otherwise they should be locked in their corp until the pirates call off the war or they pay up. Furthermore the pirates should also be locked in their corp. This is very reasonable and follows common sense. /edit: During the war dec there shouldn't be any limit to the number of players that can join. -=Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds=-
chillz Minmatar	Posted - 2007.02.24 17:28:00 - [29] Go pick a fight with someone who wants to pew pew. Problem solved. Or is the fact that they will pew pew back too scary for you? ----------------------------------- A gun and a packet of sandwiches. "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Hunter S Thompson
Humpalot	Posted - 2007.02.24 17:30:00 - [30] Originally by: Lord Sid Furthermore the pirates should also be locked in their corp. This is very reasonable and follows common sense. Not all wars are pirates looking for some action and a few juicy mods to sell. Some wars are literal attacks for the gain of territory or the destruction of the opposing corp. As mentioned one way to "win" a war is to cause the corp/alliance you are fighting to have members leave them. If enough leave the corp/alliance collapses. I have seen it happen and when it does it is kinda cool. Ya know if you war dec a sizeable/well established corp they generally do not pack it in and reform. They are simply too large with a name too well established to deal with corp roles and corp hangars all over and what not to just put up a "Closed" sign and start over easily. If you war dec noob corps with 8 guys in it then yeah...I guess you can expect they will just vanish on you.



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