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NovaCat13
Seymourus and Co.
219
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Posted - 2016.05.25 07:55:32 -
[301] - Quote
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:Player interaction? People would shot an alt, 0 player interaction.
What we have is any better?
Quote:Player interaction? People would shoot a rat, 0 player interaction.
Just say NO to Dailies
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Lisbeth Riraille
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
51
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Posted - 2016.05.25 08:00:21 -
[302] - Quote
The people against this are simply min-maxing to a ridiculous extent. It's 10k. It's a tiny SP boost. Don't be like a monkey with its fist in a jar trying to get the last peanut out when you're already sat on a massive pile of peanuts. Let it go, monkey. |
Jeremiah Saken
The Fall of Leviathan
602
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Posted - 2016.05.25 08:02:04 -
[303] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Eliott Maelstrom wrote:I'm sure Blizzard though the same way you are thinking right now, but it spiraled out of control and nowadays the players are stuck in their "content providing activities" and the community is basically non existent. Much like the subscribing customers... And not only is WOW still an absolutely massive game with a huge amount of revenue, but the existence of dailies is not generally considered one of it's major failings. The utter destruction of old content in cataclysm and the introduction of kung fu panda however... Blizzard is actually changing their approach to dailies system. So there is some backfire in gameplay. They want them more ingame involving. Doing 1,5 minute chore is quite the opposite.
I am the 85%
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
320
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Posted - 2016.05.25 08:08:39 -
[304] - Quote
I'm clearly not opposed to the whole idea. There is however, the matter of precedents: "The Hunt" earns you 10k SP, fine .... what if several more of these opportunities get implemented? What if I can earn 10k for shooting a rat, another 10k for scanning down a site, perhaps 10k on top for shooting a player and 10k for mining a roid?
As long as we're talking 10k SP a day it's acceptable - yet I'm not comfortable with other players getting 40-50k SP extra on a daily basis. Because at that point we're making expensive implants a joke, and people only able to play during the weekend would indeed start falling behind despite paying the same monthly fee.
2ct from Yours Truly, |
Kaybella Hakaari
State War Academy Caldari State
14
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Posted - 2016.05.25 09:31:56 -
[305] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:I'm clearly not opposed to the whole idea. There is however, the matter of precedents: "The Hunt" earns you 10k SP, fine .... what if several more of these opportunities get implemented? What if I can earn 10k for shooting a rat, another 10k for scanning down a site, perhaps 10k on top for shooting a player and 10k for mining a roid?
As long as we're talking 10k SP a day it's acceptable - yet I'm not comfortable with other players getting 40-50k SP extra on a daily basis. Because at that point we're making expensive implants a joke, and people only able to play during the weekend would indeed start falling behind despite paying the same monthly fee.
2ct from Yours Truly, They already did make +5s a lot less effective: Skill formula is: [Primary attribute] + [Secondary Attribute / 2] every minute. So... +5s - 10800 +4s - 08640 +3s - 06480 +2s - +04320 +1s - +02160
Running a daily for all but the craziiest is almost as good as a pair of +5s. For someone who's willing to hit the 22h mark extremely religiously, it beats +5s, at a theoretical 10909 SP/day. Whatever is able to do exactly that for very long will end up with negative infinity skillpoints, because it clearly isn't human.
Remapping from 20/20 to 27/21 is another 10800. So , for somene who can kill a rat every day, it's almost as good as remapping to perfect from starter attributes.
"Only able to play the weekend" is already going to fall behind, but you can spend money for plex for injectors to "catch back up." See what else they did there? |
Lucas Kell
Evolution. SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7799
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Posted - 2016.05.25 09:41:51 -
[306] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Blizzard is actually changing their approach to dailies system. So there is some backfire in gameplay. They want them more ingame involving. Doing 1,5 minute chore is quite the opposite. I imagine with EVE, the opposite would be true though. If CCP created dailies that were very involved, the screams of "themepark MMO" would be heard from space. At the same time the benefits of having daily goals are obvious, hence their use in most mmos. I'm sure over time they will evolve to be more than just shooting a single NPC, but I wouldn't expect them to become too involved or time consuming.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Raging Bull Unchained
Einheit X-6
750
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Posted - 2016.05.25 09:46:08 -
[307] - Quote
Kaybella Hakaari wrote: They already did make +5s a lot less effective: [...]
I can-¦t see why the +5 work less effective. That would mean they "generate" less skillpoints. But thatt-¦s not the case. The skillpoints are coming from different sources. |
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron
1774
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Posted - 2016.05.25 09:48:00 -
[308] - Quote
Lisbeth Riraille wrote:The people against this are simply min-maxing to a ridiculous extent. It's 10k. It's a tiny SP boost. Don't be like a monkey with its fist in a jar trying to get the last peanut out when you're already sat on a massive pile of peanuts. Let it go, monkey. Where were You when CCP removed learning skills? You know: those skills which provided small boost to rate of getting SP. And yet, some people never undocked before they finished all the learning skills to V (which takes something like month or two) BEFORE training anything other. Because 'MUH RATE OF GETTING SP'. And CCP removed these skills. I wrote at that time that this is just the beginning of long road. And now we are here with dailies. Yes, you don't HAVE TO do them but you will 'lose your rate of getting SP'. Doesn't it sound familiar?
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Eliott Maelstrom
Space And Astrogeological Research Foundation Separatists
7
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Posted - 2016.05.25 10:16:41 -
[309] - Quote
Jeremiah Saken wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Eliott Maelstrom wrote:I'm sure Blizzard though the same way you are thinking right now, but it spiraled out of control and nowadays the players are stuck in their "content providing activities" and the community is basically non existent. Much like the subscribing customers... And not only is WOW still an absolutely massive game with a huge amount of revenue, but the existence of dailies is not generally considered one of it's major failings. The utter destruction of old content in cataclysm and the introduction of kung fu panda however... Blizzard is actually changing their approach to dailies system. So there is some backfire in gameplay. They want them more ingame involving. Doing 1,5 minute chore is quite the opposite.
You must realize that I don't compare the full dailies / garrison setup with one recurrent opportunity, but how do you think all that started?
I don't see how it's relevant that Blizzard is changing their approach to dailies? |
Eliott Maelstrom
Space And Astrogeological Research Foundation Separatists
7
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Posted - 2016.05.25 10:35:14 -
[310] - Quote
Eliott Maelstrom wrote:Recurrent opportunities or "dailies" is a slippery slope, ultimately it will ruin the game. People said that about a lot of changes, generally incorrectly.
It is not something that will happen overnight, like I said in my original post.
Eliott Maelstrom wrote:Consequently I will log in everyday and do this daily with no increase in content what so ever. Literally impossible.
Literally not very impossible at all, I guess that's an argument?
Eliott Maelstrom wrote:feeling like they have to complete this task or else they will lose out. NEVER a good feeling. They already miss out on hundreds of other activities they could partake in each day. Why does the limit make it worse? And why do people not freak out if they don't complete the epic arcs they can only repeat once every three months?
Simply because the incentives for these are not SP based.
Eliott Maelstrom wrote:I'm sure Blizzard though the same way you are thinking right now, but it spiraled out of control and nowadays the players are stuck in their "content providing activities" and the community is basically non existent. Much like the subscribing customers... And not only is WOW still an absolutely massive game with a huge amount of revenue, but the existence of dailies is not generally considered one of it's major failings. The utter destruction of old content in cataclysm and the introduction of kung fu panda however...
If you played the game then I'm sure you know that logging in to do dailies wasn't much fun at all.
Eliott Maelstrom wrote:that being it's unforgiving and relentless nature. So wait, it's unforgiving and relentless, but if they add missions you can complete once per day, that all goes away? It's not and has never been unforgiving and relentless since the only thing you can really lose is ISK, which is dead easy to make, and the introduction of recurring opportunities won't change a thing about that regardless. [/quote]
It's easy to cherry pick sentences from my post and hammer down on them but you have to look at the post in it's entirety. In truth, this isn't so bad. But what I am trying to convey are my concerns about the future. |
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Lucas Kell
Evolution. SpaceMonkey's Alliance
7800
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Posted - 2016.05.25 11:29:40 -
[311] - Quote
Eliott Maelstrom wrote:It is not something that will happen overnight, like I said in my original post. It's not something that's going to happen at all. You'll wait for the game to die for any reason at all, no matter how unrelated, then blame it on changes like this. Kinda like how Trammel takes the blame for UO even though there were a mountain of other failings.
Eliott Maelstrom wrote:Literally not very impossible at all, I guess that's an argument? No it literally is impossible. If you are logging in and undocking daily you are creating content. A small amount of content, given, but thousands of people doing that adds up to a lot of content.
Eliott Maelstrom wrote:Simply because the incentives for these are not SP based. SP can be bought for ISK, so if the incentives are isk based, that can be rapidly translated to SP incentives.
Eliott Maelstrom wrote:If you played the game then I'm sure you know that logging in to do dailies wasn't much fun at all. I did, and no, if you log in solely to do dailies in a game you don;t enjoy, then you won't find it fun, but when I played and enjoyed WoW, I certainly did put in a little extra effort to complete some dailies every day I could (particularly dungeon based ones) and very much enjoyed it. It just gave a bit more of an incentive to log on each day, which is good. The people that play them are people who feel that opportunities for reward force them to play, and those people should seek immediate professional help for their addiction.
Eliott Maelstrom wrote:It's easy to cherry pick sentences from my post and hammer down on them but you have to look at the post in it's entirety. In truth, this isn't so bad. But what I am trying to convey are my concerns about the future. I did look at it in it's entirety, it's just easier to break down responses point by point than to address the whole post in a slew of text. I'd say let's worry about the future in the future, eh? As with most slippery slope arguments, progress can be halted at the point the line is about to be broken, we shouldn't hold back on positive changes because we fear somewhere down the line bad decisions might be made.
The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.
Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
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Lathael
Liga der aussergewoehnlichen Tattergreise Evictus.
31
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Posted - 2016.05.25 11:49:35 -
[312] - Quote
Raging Bull Unchained wrote:@Lathael:
You lost a 'zero' somewhere. It-¦s 500k per injector (or a bit less). So the same effect as a free injector every 50 (or less) days. Probably 40 days (for 400k injections).
Or do i miss your poin?
@Raging Bull: You are right a digit was missing. 80 million or more Skill Points at time of use = 150.000 unallocated Skill Points |
Cara Forelli
Meticulously Indifferent
1831
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Posted - 2016.05.25 12:25:50 -
[313] - Quote
Shayla Etherodyne wrote:Cara Forelli wrote:KaarBaak wrote:Cara Forelli wrote:Roenok Baalnorn wrote: the playstyle of undocking and doing pve. You know, playing the game.
I would argue that is hardly playing the game at all. Imagine the fits people would throw if you actually had to shoot another player for the bonus though. If that were the daily task...would you still complain? No, because it suits me and actually promotes player interaction. I wouldn't actively support it either though. It suit your you, sure. Player interaction? People would shot an alt, 0 player interaction. There's so many ways to fix that. Make you shoot a unique person each day...trial accounts don't count, etc. Not that I should have to justify why shooting an alt is less interesting than shooting a rat.
Adventures
New player with questions? Join my public channel in game: House Forelli
Titan's Lament
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Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
1089
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Posted - 2016.05.25 12:40:00 -
[314] - Quote
Terranid Meester wrote: 1. This breaks the sandbox. Instead of setting your own goals this is about a time based CCP set goal. It wowifies eve using EA level mechanics which have already been proved to be detrimental to other games.
They hired EA's head of monetization. Soon there after we got skill injectors and daily opportunities.
I have no problem with skill injectors or this. Both are a waste of time to me and if you want to get a measly 10k SP a day by doing something insanely boring then knock yourself out.
I will agree their picking up speed on the slippery slope but their doing an decent job of implementing this stuff so far.
Not today spaghetti.
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March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron The-Culture
1775
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Posted - 2016.05.25 12:45:58 -
[315] - Quote
Sexy Cakes wrote:...decent job of implementing this stuff so far.
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
1090
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Posted - 2016.05.25 12:54:55 -
[316] - Quote
While I can see the other side of the argument I've also seen companies go full on sell out mode and make it so the more money you spend the bigger the benefit.
Imagine if CCP made it skill injectors gave the same amount of SP but at 50 million SP you had to pay twice as much to get 500k SP and 100 million you had to pay 4 times as much.
As far as the daily opportunities go, who gives a sh!t about 10k SP per day? I mean really it's not the SP that you guys are breaking out the pitchforks for it's the idea behind it. Guess what? This is a niche game at best. CCP is trying to get new people by creating 'catch up' mechanics. You guys don't care about the good of EVE you just complain about change at every turn.
If you want to question my stance on this stuff go look up my post history. I was one of the biggest advocates for keeping skill injectors out of the game when they first announced it but the way it was implemented was great and it turned out to be a good thing for EVE.
Not today spaghetti.
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March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron The-Culture
1775
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Posted - 2016.05.25 13:05:48 -
[317] - Quote
Sexy Cakes wrote:While I can see the other side of the argument I've also seen companies go full on sell out mode and make it so the more money you spend the bigger the benefit. actually i've commented on 'implementing this stuff'. Dailies system was broken right from the start (who could even imagine killing rats with area-effect weapons??? ) and was disabled like 30 minutes after DT? I would not say that this way of implementing things is 'decent'.
Sexy Cakes wrote: CCP is trying to get new people by creating 'catch up' mechanics. You guys don't care about the good of EVE you just complain about change at every turn.
'catching up' in Eve existed for many years already. The tool called 'character bazaar'. And you know what? To achieve 100% 'catch up' for new players CCP needs to remove SP and ISK from the game. And make it so every player has access to each item and everything is free. Only then your imaginary 'new player' will be 'on par' with us 'bittervets'. However your imaginary 'new player' will still lack game knowledge so then CCP would need to kill all the complexity of Eve Online so it is clear and empty right from the start. Congratulations! Now you have perfect 'catch up'-enabled game! Would you play it tho? Me - don't.
You really sure you want to go this road?
Sexy Cakes wrote:...it turned out to be a good thing for EVE. Side question: how do you know it? Right now skill injectors/extractors made the game free for me (i have SP farm) but i have no ideas about effect on the game.
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2857
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Posted - 2016.05.25 14:55:16 -
[318] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Lisbeth Riraille wrote:The people against this are simply min-maxing to a ridiculous extent. It's 10k. It's a tiny SP boost. Don't be like a monkey with its fist in a jar trying to get the last peanut out when you're already sat on a massive pile of peanuts. Let it go, monkey. Where were You when CCP removed learning skills? You know: those skills which provided small boost to rate of getting SP. And yet, some people never undocked before they finished all the learning skills to V (which takes something like month or two) BEFORE training anything other. Because 'MUH RATE OF GETTING SP'. And CCP removed these skills. I wrote at that time that this is just the beginning of long road. And now we are here with dailies. Yes, you don't HAVE TO do them but you will 'lose your rate of getting SP'. Doesn't it sound familiar?
The problem is not the game but the playerbase who will do the stupidest thing in the name of faster SP. You will ahve people do stupid **** in that name all the time until CCP decide we all get SP at a flat rate no matter what and I really don't see that happening. |
Lisbeth Riraille
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
55
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Posted - 2016.05.25 15:29:46 -
[319] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Lisbeth Riraille wrote:The people against this are simply min-maxing to a ridiculous extent. It's 10k. It's a tiny SP boost. Don't be like a monkey with its fist in a jar trying to get the last peanut out when you're already sat on a massive pile of peanuts. Let it go, monkey. Where were You when CCP removed learning skills? You know: those skills which provided small boost to rate of getting SP. And yet, some people never undocked before they finished all the learning skills to V (which takes something like month or two) BEFORE training anything other. Because 'MUH RATE OF GETTING SP'. And CCP removed these skills. I wrote at that time that this is just the beginning of long road. And now we are here with dailies. Yes, you don't HAVE TO do them but you will 'lose your rate of getting SP'. Doesn't it sound familiar?
Those people are failing at the min-maxing game imo because they ignore opportunity cost in their formulas. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4875
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Posted - 2016.05.25 15:54:03 -
[320] - Quote
KaarBaak wrote:It seems like the bulk of the naysayers' posts come down to #6. They feel like just because it's there, it's something they have to do. The same argument can be made for datacore harvesting, planetary resources, incursions, etc. Let alone mining, mission running or even PvP.
By not doing the dailies you don't lose anything. I'll be doing as several folks have posted...going about the same activities I've always done and will occasionally get a bump of SP in the course I'm sure. Great. But if I miss it for a day..a week...a month...I'm no worse off. Comparing yourself to everyone else (eeek...I'm falling behind char X in SP accumulation) seems like a recipe for eternal negativity. You're always going to be behind someone in SP.
Not to mention, as I recall pilots are often commenting that it's not the SP accumulation that 'makes' a pilot...it's their actual skill at piloting (and fitting) their ship. If you put your ruler away (or whatever measuring device you prefer) and stop constantly setting your self-worth in relation to other people...you'll be much more relaxed behind the wheel.
Correct. If I want to PvP I have to do one of the following:
1. Make ISK in game via PvE which is, IMO, generally horrible. Ratting sucks, missions suck, PI sucks, and mining sucks. Personally I pick the ones that for me suck the least. 2.I open up my wallet, buy a PLEX and sell it for ISK in game. 3.Scam people, which has the potential downside of damaging your reputation in game, but hey you can always do it on alt nobody knows about.
ThatGÇÖs pretty much it. I have to do one of these things if I want to PvP. So all these arguments about having to do something is largely complete Bravo Sierra.
Second, if I walk by $10 lying on the ground I am not made worse off by not picking it up, even if somebody else notices it and picks it up I am still not made worse off. Further, the greater my personal wealth the less significant that $10 becomes. This last notion gets back to opportunity cost which everybody gets when it comes to mining your own minerals (well, usually in that many people either ignore transaction costs, and some even conclude that mining is a worthless endeavor), but fail to grasp the larger meaning. The more SP I have, the less benefit IGÇÖm getting from that 10,000 SP/day. So the more SP I acquire that should be negatively correlated to logging in just to get that 10,000 SP/day. If I am logging in and getting that SP would be part of my normal activitiesGǪfine, but if not I should not feel like I have to do, just like a person should not feel like they have to look for that penny they dropped and rolled off in some random direction.
If you have 50, 60, 100 million SP and you are still feeling compelled to log in for that 10,000 SP/dayGǪokay, but maybe you should see a doctor about that OCD.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4875
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Posted - 2016.05.25 16:10:25 -
[321] - Quote
Eliott Maelstrom wrote: I get it, a simpler way of putting it would be to say you have to prioritize. We all already do that, I for one can't possibly do all the things I would need to do in a day.
As this entire mechanic is aimed at new / newer players, they are also the ones who will be subject to the pitfalls of this as it expands. Not today, not tomorrow and probably not this year. But as the current player base is refreshed with time it will be progressively worse. We have the luxury of hindsight, why not use it?
I would argue that new players who will likely feel more compelled to use this mechanic are also logging in more frequently early on in their Eve GÇ£careerGÇ¥ and that they also get bigger benefit. 100,000 SP will feel like a lot of SP to a guy with 1,000,000 SP than a guy with 100,000,000 SP. In the first case heGÇÖll see a 10% bump in his SP, whereas the second guy will only see a 0.1% bump. Further, as the new playerGÇÖs SP goes up he should feel less and less inclined to log in to get that GÇ£freebieGÇ¥.
Further, the benefits of more SP is declining. That is, while more SP is better than less SP the marginal gain is decreasing over time. Yes, I have 135 million SP. But SP in say jump freighters is not helpful if I am in an interceptor fighting a guy in a similar ship or even a different ship. Similarly for my SP in fighters, large guns, and carriers. In that context they are all worthless in the benefit they provide in that context.
So over time a player should absolutely not feel compelled to log in just to do the dailies. If you do, maybe you should sit down and re-examine your life. Seriously. Try talking to somebody and see if maybe your priorities arenGÇÖt just a tad bit out of whack.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4875
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Posted - 2016.05.25 16:16:19 -
[322] - Quote
Raging Bull Unchained wrote:Kaybella Hakaari wrote: They already did make +5s a lot less effective: [...]
I can-¦t see why the +5 work less effective. That would mean they "generate" less skillpoints. But thatt-¦s not the case. The skillpoints are coming from different sources.
Actually, they aren't. If you don't want to log in for awhile and you want to keep building SP, this is a nice way to, in effect, do the daily.
Funny how people argue on the one hand: People will be overcome by extreme OCD and log in every day and do this and start hating the game.
Then on the other hand: +5s, which give slightly more, daily SP are no worthless and nobody will use them!
Guys, forget the treatment for your OCD, I highly recommend you get help for your schizophrenia.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4875
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Posted - 2016.05.25 16:19:36 -
[323] - Quote
March rabbit wrote:Lisbeth Riraille wrote:The people against this are simply min-maxing to a ridiculous extent. It's 10k. It's a tiny SP boost. Don't be like a monkey with its fist in a jar trying to get the last peanut out when you're already sat on a massive pile of peanuts. Let it go, monkey. Where were You when CCP removed learning skills? You know: those skills which provided small boost to rate of getting SP. And yet, some people never undocked before they finished all the learning skills to V (which takes something like month or two) BEFORE training anything other. Because 'MUH RATE OF GETTING SP'. And CCP removed these skills. I wrote at that time that this is just the beginning of long road. And now we are here with dailies. Yes, you don't HAVE TO do them but you will 'lose your rate of getting SP'. Doesn't it sound familiar?
No, getting them all to V would take MONTHS, not a month. The second tier learning skills, IIRC, were like a rank 5 skill meaning each one would take a month--i.e. 5 months for just those. The tier 1 learning skills you might get to 5 across the board in a month.
Why you wouldn't undock until then...why? They provided no other benefit other than speeding up learning other skills. So you were no better at flying any ship after you finished them than you were once you finished them. In fact, your practical hands on knowledge would be less than if you had undocked.
So if this was true, those people were stoopid.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4875
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Posted - 2016.05.25 16:22:36 -
[324] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Eliott Maelstrom wrote:[quote=Eliott Maelstrom]Literally not very impossible at all, I guess that's an argument? No it literally is impossible. If you are logging in and undocking daily you are creating content. A small amount of content, given, but thousands of people doing that adds up to a lot of content.
I have to agree with Lucas (and damn you all to Hell for making me write that ).
Are you going to log in and try to do your daily during say a war dec? During and invasion of your space if you are in NS? If so you also have another name: target.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2860
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Posted - 2016.05.25 16:31:28 -
[325] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Eliott Maelstrom wrote:[quote=Eliott Maelstrom]Literally not very impossible at all, I guess that's an argument? No it literally is impossible. If you are logging in and undocking daily you are creating content. A small amount of content, given, but thousands of people doing that adds up to a lot of content. I have to agree with Lucas (and damn you all to Hell for making me write that ). Are you going to log in and try to do your daily during say a war dec? During and invasion of your space if you are in NS? If so you also have another name: target.
Who care about the circumstance? Every time a player undock, that player is a potential target which mean content. |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4875
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Posted - 2016.05.25 16:38:10 -
[326] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Teckos Pech wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Eliott Maelstrom wrote:[quote=Eliott Maelstrom]Literally not very impossible at all, I guess that's an argument? No it literally is impossible. If you are logging in and undocking daily you are creating content. A small amount of content, given, but thousands of people doing that adds up to a lot of content. I have to agree with Lucas (and damn you all to Hell for making me write that ). Are you going to log in and try to do your daily during say a war dec? During and invasion of your space if you are in NS? If so you also have another name: target. Who care about the circumstance? Every time a player undock, that player is a potential target which mean content.
That too. You become a potential target for a gank, being logged in makes you a potential target for a scam, or just seeing more people in system.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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KaarBaak
Squirrel Team
332
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Posted - 2016.05.25 22:36:36 -
[327] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote: Why you wouldn't undock until then...why? They provided no other benefit other than speeding up learning other skills. So you were no better at flying any ship after you finished them than you were once you finished them. In fact, your practical hands on knowledge would be less than if you had undocked.
So if this was true, those people were stoopid.
The problem is that you'd have to choose between learning the basic skills to get out and fight in a suitably-fit frig or learning the learning skills which would help you learn the frig skills faster.
So, you spend a week learning skills to get out and pvp...then a few weeks getting learning skills up...then get into a regular skill plan.
Or, you spend a week or two getting those first learning skills (and consuming 3d party knowledge) and 2 days getting those basic frigate pvp skills.
It was a legit issue, but it was kind of like waiting in line at the Post Office. You're grumpy and upset about while you're in line, but happy and laughing at the people behind you when you're walking out.
But it was similar in that it really had no affect on the people who were the most vocal complainers.
Dum Spiro Spero
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Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
4876
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Posted - 2016.05.26 00:18:31 -
[328] - Quote
KaarBaak wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: Why you wouldn't undock until then...why? They provided no other benefit other than speeding up learning other skills. So you were no better at flying any ship after you finished them than you were once you finished them. In fact, your practical hands on knowledge would be less than if you had undocked.
So if this was true, those people were stoopid.
The problem is that you'd have to choose between learning the basic skills to get out and fight in a suitably-fit frig or learning the learning skills which would help you learn the frig skills faster. So, you spend a week learning skills to get out and pvp...then a few weeks getting learning skills up...then get into a regular skill plan. Or, you spend a week or two getting those first learning skills (and consuming 3d party knowledge) and 2 days getting those basic frigate pvp skills. It was a legit issue, but it was kind of like waiting in line at the Post Office. You're grumpy and upset about while you're in line, but happy and laughing at the people behind you when you're walking out. But it was similar in that it really had no affect on the people who were the most vocal complainers.
Well...yes and no. No in that it wouldn't get you into that frig much faster since you'd first be spending time doing learning skills, and maybe science skills so you can do implants. Remember we are talking about a frigate and the basic frigate modules. So learning skills delayed that. The pay off for learning skills did not come until later on. Basically, learning skills delay learning other skills, but the learning skills add on to how fast you learn skills later, so eventually you "catch up" in terms of SP, but not until later on, and the longer you delay in learning the learning skills the further out that catch up time is.
That is, suppose you have 2 characters. Bob and Joe. Bob trains the tier 1 and 2 learning skills to 5/4. Joe just jumps into training for a frigate. While Bob is waiting for the learning skills to finish Joe now has 2,927,570 SP towards a flying a frig that Bob does not. However, Bob is now learning things faster than Joe, so Bob is gaining on Joe in just over 5 months Bob will have more SP than Joe. Still it probably took Bob 2-3 maybe 4 months to close that gap.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
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Shallanna Yassavi
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
196
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Posted - 2016.05.26 01:35:09 -
[329] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:Eliott Maelstrom wrote:[quote=Eliott Maelstrom]Literally not very impossible at all, I guess that's an argument? No it literally is impossible. If you are logging in and undocking daily you are creating content. A small amount of content, given, but thousands of people doing that adds up to a lot of content. I have to agree with Lucas (and damn you all to Hell for making me write that ). Are you going to log in and try to do your daily during say a war dec? During and invasion of your space if you are in NS? If so you also have another name: target. Jump clones said hi. At least to the ten or so people who thought "Maybe I'd better leave a clone with a properly fitted ship off in the middle of nowhere. You know, just in case."
A signature :o
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Cara Forelli
Meticulously Indifferent
1833
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Posted - 2016.05.26 02:19:31 -
[330] - Quote
Shallanna Yassavi wrote:Jump clones said hi. At least to the ten or so people who thought "Maybe I'd better leave a clone with a properly fitted ship off in the middle of nowhere. You know, just in case." Or you know...jump two systems over and they'll never find you without watchlist. Rip war decs.
Adventures
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Titan's Lament
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