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Exaido
Fire Over Light
0
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Posted - 2016.05.19 20:54:30 -
[1] - Quote
Has anyone calculated the ROI on an Astrahus, given at this point it can't be used for manufacturing, limiting the income to offices, reprocessing fees, taxes etc. As a user of an Astrahus for reprocessing, I make more ISK on volume but that's different from being an owner.
Given their relative fragility especially in high-sec compared to POS. It seems like they'd need a lot of throughput to cover the expense, and therefore lifespan? At what point do they become a positive revenue generator for the owner against the risk?
It feels like a cul de sac investment at the moment. |
PhatController
Waking Dreams
59
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Posted - 2016.05.19 22:21:02 -
[2] - Quote
Exaido wrote:Has anyone calculated the ROI on an Astrahus, given at this point it can't be used for manufacturing, limiting the income to offices, reprocessing fees, taxes etc. As a user of an Astrahus for reprocessing, I make more ISK on volume but that's different from being an owner.
Given their relative fragility especially in high-sec compared to POS. It seems like they'd need a lot of throughput to cover the expense, and therefore lifespan? At what point do they become a positive revenue generator for the owner against the risk?
It feels like a cul de sac investment at the moment.
There more of an logistics tool then an income tool, and are priceless in that aspect.
If you are using it for income only, the ROI will be entirely impossible to predict, as you can't predict how many people will use it. Considering the amount "new freeport Citadel" posts popping up all the time, I don't expect there is going to be huge amounts of money to be made
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Raz Muesin
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2016.05.20 04:59:58 -
[3] - Quote
Exaido wrote:Has anyone calculated the ROI on an Astrahus, given at this point it can't be used for manufacturing, limiting the income to offices, reprocessing fees, taxes etc. As a user of an Astrahus for reprocessing, I make more ISK on volume but that's different from being an owner.
Given their relative fragility especially in high-sec compared to POS. It seems like they'd need a lot of throughput to cover the expense, and therefore lifespan? At what point do they become a positive revenue generator for the owner against the risk?
It feels like a cul de sac investment at the moment.
I have never heard of a cul de sac investment before. After a real quick google search I may have an idea. But please explain. |
PhatController
Waking Dreams
59
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Posted - 2016.05.20 05:21:33 -
[4] - Quote
Raz Muesin wrote:Exaido wrote:Has anyone calculated the ROI on an Astrahus, given at this point it can't be used for manufacturing, limiting the income to offices, reprocessing fees, taxes etc. As a user of an Astrahus for reprocessing, I make more ISK on volume but that's different from being an owner.
Given their relative fragility especially in high-sec compared to POS. It seems like they'd need a lot of throughput to cover the expense, and therefore lifespan? At what point do they become a positive revenue generator for the owner against the risk?
It feels like a cul de sac investment at the moment. I have never heard of a cul de sac investment before. After a real quick google search I may have an idea. But please explain.
I think Cul De Sac is "urban speak" for dead end. Ie, no return made on investment. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
6100
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Posted - 2016.05.20 05:28:36 -
[5] - Quote
I have a small tower that I only online for compression and reprocessing.
CCP can pry it from my cold dead fingers.
I have no intentions of anchoring a citadel in its place. |
Volksterb
6
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Posted - 2016.05.20 07:23:07 -
[6] - Quote
Astrahus seems a pretty pointless thing to have, unless you enjoy seeing things explode. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1633
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Posted - 2016.05.20 07:47:49 -
[7] - Quote
First issue is that the refining bonus will be adjusted downwards when the new indy structures come out, so you would be better off waiting for them. I hope the indy structures will be a lot cheaper and there is a version that can be taken down quickly because of obvious reasons...
I see you have expressed an interest in Hub Zero, a medium with limited market capabilities for a blue list would have been excellent for what Aaron is trying to do, but for some reason late in the day CCP removed market functionality from the medium. I have asked them to allow a limited functionality but CCP don't listen to anything that helps small groups in my experience sadly. I still have had no explanation why the market functionality was removed from Mediums. My guess is certain entitled older players did not like smaller entities having that possibility, but that is a guess on my part.
In effect there is no real reason to put one of these Medium up, it is in reality a **** waving exercise, yeah I can put one up and call it home and base out of it and its mine and it looks very very nice and is an objective to aim for, to say this is my bit of space, I can give it a snappy name even and in that it is a very bad investment, especially if you cannot put a fleet together to use its force multiplier combat abilities like the majority of hisec by the way.
The real meat on the bone will be the indy structures, I am beginning to suspect that NPC stations will continue to see my refining and research requests sadly, oh and of course I will regret the end of the current POS system for that, because that gets around so many issues for small entities.
Ella's Snack bar. The Hisec sandbox is basically no longer a themepark for gankers now that CCP have rebalanced key areas. Well done CCP
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Sequester Risalo
Semiki Minerals and Missiles Company Ltd.
197
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Posted - 2016.05.20 07:50:07 -
[8] - Quote
PhatController wrote:There more of an logistics tool then an income tool, and are priceless in that aspect.
Where?
There, their and they're are three completely different words with completely different meanings and only by chance share a few letters. I do not understand how it should be even remotely possible to confuse those. I think it is worth a few studies why these relatively simple words cause so much trouble. I mean, noone here is mixing up ball with bald, missiles with mittens, hell with Hel or widow with window although the number of similar letters is identical in those pairs. |
Exaido
Fire Over Light
0
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Posted - 2016.05.20 07:54:49 -
[9] - Quote
PhatController wrote:
There more of an logistics tool then an income tool, and are priceless in that aspect.
If you are using it for income only, the ROI will be entirely impossible to predict, as you can't predict how many people will use it. Considering the amount "new freeport Citadel" posts popping up all the time, I don't expect there is going to be huge amounts of money to be made
Thanks PhatCon.
The value is in the collective usage and not for the individual (owner economically speaking). Logistics with a affordable 'Clone Facility' in null could make a lot of sense; I haven't seen them in WH but as I understand the Cloning Facility is different there to preserve K-Space. If it serves the community, the community will defend it, if it's a vanity asset it will be popped.
That in itself makes it curious as a game mechanic, a structure that is both semi-permanent (by fixed position as a stage) and throwaway (by fragility).
The low barrier to cost made the Citadel intriguing for the small corporation pre-publish. But it's got me looking at the Orca again, as a FOB, as a more realistic path forward.
RE: Economic Cul De Sac, it's a dead-end road with a few houses along the side, not an economic corridor like a highway or railroad.
Input from all appreciated.
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Exaido
Fire Over Light
0
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Posted - 2016.05.20 08:07:05 -
[10] - Quote
DracVlad. I agree that marketplace with Medium's makes seeding and colonisation of void areas of null a real possibility; it actually reflects a proper investment chain, allowing the infrastructure to scale with growth - makes a lot of sense. Having a large as the base line for the marketplace, leaves the development of new markets in the hands of the ISK oligarchs. I don't see the reason for dropping marketplaces out of Ms, they could have allowed them for low-to-null easy enough. |
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
10828
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Posted - 2016.05.20 08:51:07 -
[11] - Quote
We need production facilities that can act as your standard industry facility with a lot of options, with storage, but without citadel services like docking and cloning and market and weapons. Cheaper and easier to use than POS.
( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ =ƒÅ¦ - my sandcastle
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
Planetary Interaction 2.1
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Fat Buddah
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
27
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Posted - 2016.05.20 09:19:13 -
[12] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:I have a small tower that I only online for compression and reprocessing.
CCP can pry it from my cold dead fingers.
I have no intentions of anchoring a citadel in its place.
You don't have to have your OWN citadel for compression and reprocessing.
Citadel compression is free. Use someone else's citadel near your home...or move there. I've already unachored a small compression tower coz as there is a new Astrahus right next door to my pos the fuel cost is no longer justified .
As for refining...maybe you could try talking to the owner of the citadel for some kinda tax deal? Or look for a cheap one.
I think of it like this: I am outsourcing the tedious job of structure management and refueling to someone else for a modest fee. The fuel cost and logistics I no longer have to bear outvalue the small refine tax. The citadel owner and his ROI...is not my problem. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
15860
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Posted - 2016.05.20 09:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
factor in the potential cost of either defending it or having it ransomed.
once a war goes live you are stuck with it In situ untill you can either broker a deal , defend it or watch as someone explodes it.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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PhatController
Waking Dreams
60
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Posted - 2016.05.20 09:51:11 -
[14] - Quote
Sequester Risalo wrote:PhatController wrote:There more of an logistics tool then an income tool, and are priceless in that aspect. Where? There, their and they're are three completely different words with completely different meanings and only by chance share a few letters. I do not understand how it should be even remotely possible to confuse those. I think it is worth a few studies why these relatively simple words cause so much trouble. I mean, noone here is mixing up ball with bald, missiles with mittens, hell with Hel or widow with window although the number of similar letters is identical in those pairs.
Firstly, you might want to hit the edit button and fix your own spelling and grammar mistakes, before commenting on others. Secondly, there, their and they're are homonyms, where as ball and bald are not, so hardly fair to compare them. Tertiary, you might want to move this irrelevant post over to the Spelling and Grammer forum, instead of the EVE General Discussion. |
Exaido
Fire Over Light
1
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Posted - 2016.05.20 10:53:15 -
[15] - Quote
@Fat Buddah. I'm using someone else's Citadel at the moment. I make more than in an NPC Station on reprocessing, all well and good, and the fees are negligible for doing so - and that in a sense prompted the question. Under what condition is a Citadel a sound investment, given that they aren't really capable of defending themselves during their vulnerability window against even a moderate force.
I have had my own POS before which via manufacturing and the general security of it for an industrialist works. The question for me, really was - if I invest in a Citadel - for public use, how much usage would a Medium or a Large (given M can't have a market) take to recuperate the costs, and does that time compare with the average life-span of a Citadel. The short answer is from what I am reading, is that it doesn't. But they do support corporations from a logistics view, that is the overall corporation as a collection of individuals profits, while the Citadel Owner wears the cost - this is fine. But makes the Medium Citadel redundant for the smaller corporation and as a replacement for the POS. For the smaller corporation or solo industrialists, the new structures will be the ones to watch.
Investing for community / alliance / whoever benefit is perfectly sound as a social investment but that is different from revenue generation. |
Exaido
Fire Over Light
1
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Posted - 2016.05.20 10:56:11 -
[16] - Quote
I realise my google-fu is weak today by asking this but it's on topic. What happens to property stored in the Citadel in low-sec or null-sec when it goes 'bang'. I know in high-sec it's containers or NPC stations. Wasn't sure on low / null. |
Aaron Honk
Distributed Denial of Service
121
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Posted - 2016.05.20 12:13:31 -
[17] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:I have a small tower that I only online for compression and reprocessing.
CCP can pry it from my cold dead fingers.
I have no intentions of anchoring a citadel in its place.
There are many 0% citadels now and compression is always free |
Sequester Risalo
Semiki Minerals and Missiles Company Ltd.
197
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Posted - 2016.05.20 12:41:25 -
[18] - Quote
PhatController wrote:Sequester Risalo wrote:PhatController wrote:There more of an logistics tool then an income tool, and are priceless in that aspect. Where? There, their and they're are three completely different words with completely different meanings and only by chance share a few letters. I do not understand how it should be even remotely possible to confuse those. I think it is worth a few studies why these relatively simple words cause so much trouble. I mean, noone here is mixing up ball with bald, missiles with mittens, hell with Hel or widow with window although the number of similar letters is identical in those pairs. Firstly, you might want to hit the edit button and fix your own spelling and grammar mistakes, before commenting on others. Secondly, there, their and they're are homonyms, where as ball and bald are not, so hardly fair to compare them. Tertiary, you might want to move this irrelevant post over to the Spelling and Grammer forum, instead of the EVE General Discussion.
Firstly, I think it's impossible to hit edit and fix my own mistakes before I post them in a comment.
Secondly, I might concede that "There" and "Their" are homonyms (althouogh not in the restrictive definition which sees homonyms as words that are simultaneously homographs). However, "They're" is pronounced quite different from the first two.
And since you asked for it let me please explain that Cul De Sac is not "urban speak" for dead end but rather plain french. This corresponds very nicely with the thread title. Vive le ROI Astrahus. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1637
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Posted - 2016.05.20 13:18:48 -
[19] - Quote
Exaido wrote:I realise my google-fu is weak today by asking this but it's on topic. What happens to property stored in the Citadel in low-sec or null-sec when it goes 'bang'. I know in high-sec it's containers or NPC stations. Wasn't sure on low / null.
My understanding is that you might want to read this:
http://eve-guides.fr/index.php?article=132
It is in English.
COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
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Cristl
416
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Posted - 2016.05.20 14:17:08 -
[20] - Quote
Sequester Risalo wrote:PhatController wrote:Sequester Risalo wrote:PhatController wrote:There more of an logistics tool then an income tool, and are priceless in that aspect. Where? There, their and they're are three completely different words with completely different meanings and only by chance share a few letters. I do not understand how it should be even remotely possible to confuse those. I think it is worth a few studies why these relatively simple words cause so much trouble. I mean, noone here is mixing up ball with bald, missiles with mittens, hell with Hel or widow with window although the number of similar letters is identical in those pairs. Firstly, you might want to hit the edit button and fix your own spelling and grammar mistakes, before commenting on others. Secondly, there, their and they're are homonyms, where as ball and bald are not, so hardly fair to compare them. Tertiary, you might want to move this irrelevant post over to the Spelling and Grammer forum, instead of the EVE General Discussion. Firstly, I think it's impossible to hit edit and fix my own mistakes before I post them in a comment. Secondly, I might concede that "There" and "Their" are homonyms (althouogh not in the restrictive definition which sees homonyms as words that are simultaneously homographs). However, "They're" is pronounced quite different from the first two. And since you asked for it let me please explain that Cul De Sac is not "urban speak" for dead end but rather plain french. This corresponds very nicely with the thread title. Vive le ROI Astrahus. I really should avoid these, but:
-You said "noone". The penalty should be birching.
-How do you pronounce "they're", if not the same as "there" or "their"? (I'm genuinely interested here).
-Cul-de-sac requires hyphens, not capitals, and is a perfectly good English word (albeit a French loanword/phrase). Also, it's "urbane speak".
(that's a weak joke, to save you some time). |
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Exaido
Fire Over Light
4
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Posted - 2016.05.20 14:45:53 -
[21] - Quote
Roger that. Thanks DracVlad. Giving it a read now. |
Cypherous
Liberty Rogues Aprilon Dynasty
218
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Posted - 2016.05.20 14:52:39 -
[22] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:I have a small tower that I only online for compression and reprocessing.
CCP can pry it from my cold dead fingers.
I have no intentions of anchoring a citadel in its place.
Well you won't have a choice eventually as POS modules will be made entirely useless once structures are made to replace them, in your case the industrial array, this isn't an optional change its an eventuality |
Sustrai Aditua
Irubo Kovu
217
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Posted - 2016.05.20 15:26:28 -
[23] - Quote
Sequester Risalo wrote:PhatController wrote:There more of an logistics tool then an income tool, and are priceless in that aspect. Where? There, their and they're are three completely different words with completely different meanings and only by chance share a few letters. I do not understand how it should be even remotely possible to confuse those. I think it is worth a few studies why these relatively simple words cause so much trouble. I mean, noone here is mixing up ball with bald, missiles with mittens, hell with Hel or widow with window although the number of similar letters is identical in those pairs. OMFG!! Yer, ur, your...*ack ack* YOU'RE gonna get in trouble NOW!!! *Writes Santa*
If we get chased by zombies, I'm tripping you.
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
6110
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Posted - 2016.05.20 23:12:06 -
[24] - Quote
Cypherous wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:I have a small tower that I only online for compression and reprocessing.
CCP can pry it from my cold dead fingers.
I have no intentions of anchoring a citadel in its place. Well you won't have a choice eventually as POS modules will be made entirely useless once structures are made to replace them, in your case the industrial array, this isn't an optional change its an eventuality I love it when people try to explain industry topics to me
The original point being, there is little benefit in a much more costly citadel at this time, compared to a small POS. Use a small POS until such time that there is a better alternative ... and until about a year after that when small POS are likely to be removed (I estimate early 2018). |
PhatController
Waking Dreams
63
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Posted - 2016.05.21 00:34:31 -
[25] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Cypherous wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:I have a small tower that I only online for compression and reprocessing.
CCP can pry it from my cold dead fingers.
I have no intentions of anchoring a citadel in its place. Well you won't have a choice eventually as POS modules will be made entirely useless once structures are made to replace them, in your case the industrial array, this isn't an optional change its an eventuality I love it when people try to explain industry topics to me The original point being, there is little benefit in a much more costly citadel at this time, compared to a small POS. Use a small POS until such time that there is a better alternative ... and until about a year after that when small POS are likely to be removed (I estimate early 2018).
2% better refine, and half the fuel costs of a small POS. I'll take the citadel thanks. |
Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1639
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Posted - 2016.05.21 11:26:20 -
[26] - Quote
PhatController wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:Cypherous wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:I have a small tower that I only online for compression and reprocessing.
CCP can pry it from my cold dead fingers.
I have no intentions of anchoring a citadel in its place. Well you won't have a choice eventually as POS modules will be made entirely useless once structures are made to replace them, in your case the industrial array, this isn't an optional change its an eventuality I love it when people try to explain industry topics to me The original point being, there is little benefit in a much more costly citadel at this time, compared to a small POS. Use a small POS until such time that there is a better alternative ... and until about a year after that when small POS are likely to be removed (I estimate early 2018). 2% better refine, and half the fuel costs of a small POS. I'll take the citadel thanks.
Damn why don't you read what he said, you only online the damn thing to do your refining or compressing then it goes offline again, it is much cheaper than a Citadel with its refining module online, because you get a hell of a charge for putting it online.
COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
6120
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Posted - 2016.05.21 17:43:24 -
[27] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:PhatController wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:The original point being, there is little benefit in a much more costly citadel at this time, compared to a small POS. Use a small POS until such time that there is a better alternative ... and until about a year after that when small POS are likely to be removed (I estimate early 2018). 2% better refine, and half the fuel costs of a small POS. I'll take the citadel thanks. Damn why don't you read what he said, you only online the damn thing to do your refining or compressing then it goes offline again, it is much cheaper than a Citadel with its refining module online, because you get a hell of a charge for putting it online. Also paying at least 8 times more for the structure for that 2% better refining, and that's before fuel is considered.
As for fuel, my small POS uses 1 and sometimes 2 fuel blocks per reprocessing session.
If I really want that 2% more, I'd use an existing freeport citadel and pay the very reasonable tax instead.
Once the mining structures are released in the winter, this strategy may change. |
PhatController
Waking Dreams
64
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Posted - 2016.05.21 21:25:03 -
[28] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Dracvlad wrote:PhatController wrote:Tau Cabalander wrote:The original point being, there is little benefit in a much more costly citadel at this time, compared to a small POS. Use a small POS until such time that there is a better alternative ... and until about a year after that when small POS are likely to be removed (I estimate early 2018). 2% better refine, and half the fuel costs of a small POS. I'll take the citadel thanks. Damn why don't you read what he said, you only online the damn thing to do your refining or compressing then it goes offline again, it is much cheaper than a Citadel with its refining module online, because you get a hell of a charge for putting it online. Also paying at least 8 times more for the structure for that 2% better refining, and that's before fuel is considered. As for fuel, my small POS uses 1 and sometimes 2 fuel blocks per reprocessing session. If I really want that 2% more, I'd use an existing freeport citadel and pay the very reasonable tax instead. Once the mining structures are released in the winter, this strategy may change.
It should pay for itself many times over, especially if it is being used by an Corp/Alliance rather then a single person.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17720
|
Posted - 2016.05.21 22:16:29 -
[29] - Quote
Exaido wrote:Has anyone calculated the ROI on an Astrahus, given at this point it can't be used for manufacturing, limiting the income to offices, reprocessing fees, taxes etc. As a user of an Astrahus for reprocessing, I make more ISK on volume but that's different from being an owner.
Given their relative fragility especially in high-sec compared to POS. It seems like they'd need a lot of throughput to cover the expense, and therefore lifespan? At what point do they become a positive revenue generator for the owner against the risk?
It feels like a cul de sac investment at the moment.
Depends what you want to use it for.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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LTH Roths
University of Caille Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2016.05.21 23:14:10 -
[30] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote: The original point being, there is little benefit in a much more costly citadel at this time, compared to a small POS. Use a small POS until such time that there is a better alternative ... and until about a year after that when small POS are likely to be removed (I estimate early 2018).
2018 I do hope you are right that would be great |
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