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War Kitten
Panda McLegion
6195
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Posted - 2016.05.20 19:55:06 -
[1] - Quote
Hot on the heels of the wildly popular recurring opportunities announcement, rumor has it that CCP will continue to offer all the same recurring opportunities it has for years, including:
+ Undock *at any time* and shoot an NPC for isk rewards based on the size of the NPC. NO TIME LIMIT ON THIS ONE! + Dock at an NPC station, ask for a mission and you can be given the opportunity to shoot at even more NPCs for even more isk! + Join an incursion-running group and shoot at even tougher NPCs for ever greater rewards! + Join faction warfare and you can not only shoot at NPCs, you can ship spin around objects in space for rewards!
The trick is, you have to login to do all these things. I know its a chore, and those of you that don't login will feel penalized. But hey, that's the price we all pay to play the game: Logging in.
(Yes, I know there are arguments about the specifics of this first incarnation of recurring opportunities, but "feeling penalized" is the silliest of them.)
I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
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Caim Naberius
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2016.05.20 20:00:22 -
[2] - Quote
what? |
Amyclas Amatin
SUNDERING Goonswarm Federation
740
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Posted - 2016.05.20 20:19:22 -
[3] - Quote
What if your character primarily does station trading?
Maybe one quarter of my characters are market alts.
For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/
Remember that whenever you have a bad day in EVE, the correct reponse is "Thank you CCP, may I please have another?"
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Moac Tor
Cyber Core Stain Confederation
525
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Posted - 2016.05.20 20:49:50 -
[4] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Hot on the heels of the wildly popular recurring opportunities announcement, rumor has it that CCP will continue to offer all the same recurring opportunities it has for years, including:
+ Undock *at any time* and shoot an NPC for isk rewards based on the size of the NPC. NO TIME LIMIT ON THIS ONE! + Dock at an NPC station, ask for a mission and you can be given the opportunity to shoot at even more NPCs for even more isk! + Join an incursion-running group and shoot at even tougher NPCs for ever greater rewards! + Join faction warfare and you can not only shoot at NPCs, you can ship spin around objects in space for rewards!
The trick is, you have to login to do all these things. I know its a chore, and those of you that don't login will feel penalized. But hey, that's the price we all pay to play the game: Logging in.
(Yes, I know there are arguments about the specifics of this first incarnation of recurring opportunities, but "feeling penalized" is the silliest of them.) Ok, here is a lesson in economics so that you can understand why people are unhappy with this. To clarify I disagree with the concept of rewards based around logging in completely, players should want to login anyway and if you need to incentivise players to login to the game using cheap tricks, then you should take a good look at the game in general to figure out why people don't want to play in the first place.
And to the question, the reason people are unhappy with using SP as a reward is that it devalues SP.
To give you this as an example as it me be more easily understandable.
Let us say you earn -ú20,000 a year, and there is -ú1billion in the total economy in circulation. The bank decides to print off another -ú1billion effectively doubling the amount of money in the economy.
If you are following you have probably realised that your previous salary of -ú20,000 per year is now actually worth -ú10,000 year despite the fact that you are not actually losing any physical money and are still on a salary of -ú20,000 per year.
You also had -ú100,000 in saving which you had worked hard to save up for putting away half your salary each year for the past ten years. This again is now actually only worth -ú50,000 effectively halving your investment in real terms.
Now apply this to skill points. In order to keep up with our current salary (SP/hour), we now being told we need to login to kill a rat every day. If your boss told you that you need to stay behind at work for another 3 hours for the same salary, then I expect you may feel like he is penalising you wouldn't you?
Like I said though, for me it is just the fact that CCP is using this lame mechanic in order to get people to login rather than working on making a fundamentally good game. The fact that they are linking the reward soley to one of the most boring PvE activities in the game just shows how poorly thought out the idea really is.
Modulated ECM Effects
An Alternative to Skill Trading
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Memphis Baas
1577
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Posted - 2016.05.20 20:50:24 -
[5] - Quote
Instead of "shoot an NPC", they could have rewarded 10,000 skill points for
- get any sort of flag or timer for the first time, or - activate a high-slot module for the first time
and these simple conditions would have covered a whole RANGE of activities, almost everything we do in EVE that requires undocking would have been covered. So that we're not forced to do an activity we dislike to get the reward, and the guys operating in wormholes don't have to come to Empire to avoid the tough Sleepers and shoot the easier belt rats.
That's what they should have done.
EDIT: As far as the economy, no need to rage; maybe CCP wants to crash the prices of injectors / PLEX, maybe they want to get rid of attribute implants. If you do the daily reward daily, it's the equivalent of having a set of +5 implants plugged in. Do the skillpoints/month math and you'll see. So they're not making a "mistake" with the economy that they don't realize; instead, I'm pretty sure they have an ulterior agenda. |
Trader20
Hedion University Amarr Empire
59
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Posted - 2016.05.20 21:44:47 -
[6] - Quote
Citadels = some players not all Capitals = some players not all Alliance Warfare = some players not all Skill point ratting = some players not all
I don't see a problem |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
6109
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Posted - 2016.05.20 22:37:07 -
[7] - Quote
As much as I abhor recurring opportunities, I'd support a recurring opportunity for Project Discovery. |
Hal Morsh
Hmmzor. Muffins of Mayhem
526
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Posted - 2016.05.20 23:02:12 -
[8] - Quote
The alternative could be to go find someone and bug them, plenty of people shooting npc's you could bug.
If not could I have stuff you don't need no more?
Omar Alharazaad > Pretty much any time you blow something up in space it's bound to annoy someone or something.
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Elenahina
Status Unknown. Manifesto.
868
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Posted - 2016.05.21 00:14:42 -
[9] - Quote
Amyclas Amatin wrote:What if your character primarily does station trading?
Maybe one quarter of my characters are market alts. Having to take them to the nearest rookie system to find a belt rat will be a bit of a chore.
And even among my combat characters, I might only be using 1 or 2 of them regularly for subcapital warfare. Undocking the rest will also be a chore.
Then don't? It's not exactly rocket science.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
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Marsha Mallow
2836
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Posted - 2016.05.21 00:24:59 -
[10] - Quote
Would have been simpler to start charging 10k SP for every badpost. That'd get all of us off our lazy arses babbling on forums and into game. [Please don't do this CCP, btw]
Knowing they have more SP than I do isnGÇÖt going to stop me from taking the fight if I was going to take it.
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Memphis Baas
1583
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Posted - 2016.05.21 04:41:37 -
[11] - Quote
Yeah that can even be automated:
- 10k skillpoints subtracted for each post - refunded if there are likes - 10k points gift for 10 likes, 20 likes, 30 likes, etc.
- 100k skillpoints subtracted if thread is locked or post is edited by moderators for bad posting
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Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
799
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Posted - 2016.05.21 04:56:09 -
[12] - Quote
Amyclas Amatin wrote:What if your character primarily does station trading?
Maybe one quarter of my characters are market alts. Having to take them to the nearest rookie system to find a belt rat will be a bit of a chore.
And even among my combat characters, I might only be using 1 or 2 of them regularly for subcapital warfare. Undocking the rest will also be a chore.
That's Your Problem. |
Mr Duffo
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit The Bloc
172
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Posted - 2016.05.21 05:00:09 -
[13] - Quote
Amyclas Amatin wrote:What if your character primarily does station trading?
Maybe one quarter of my characters are market alts. Having to take them to the nearest rookie system to find a belt rat will be a bit of a chore.
And even among my combat characters, I might only be using 1 or 2 of them regularly for subcapital warfare. Undocking the rest will also be a chore.
then don't do it?
Skegg¦½ld, Skálm¦½ld, Skildir ro Klofnir!
Never forget! #OICXmassacre2014
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Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
17
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Posted - 2016.05.21 05:20:46 -
[14] - Quote
Amyclas Amatin wrote:What if your character primarily does station trading?
Maybe one quarter of my characters are market alts. Having to take them to the nearest rookie system to find a belt rat will be a bit of a chore.
And even among my combat characters, I might only be using 1 or 2 of them regularly for subcapital warfare. Undocking the rest will also be a chore. besides the very solid advice of " if its a chore for you then dont do it" I have to add you can only do this one time per account in the 22 hr( i believe is what it is) period. So its not necessary to log in the 27 characters that you might use once a month for 10 minutes everyday to get sp.
Furthermore if your trading, do you really need a bunch of SP? its not like your doing anything that requires more than a minor amount of skills. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2837
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Posted - 2016.05.21 06:03:51 -
[15] - Quote
Moac Tor wrote:
Now apply this to skill points. In order to keep up with our current salary (SP/hour), we now being told we need to login to kill a rat every day. If your boss told you that you need to stay behind at work for another 3 hours for the same salary, then I expect you may feel like he is penalising you wouldn't you?
That's fine and dandy but they didn't remove the current SP gain/hour so the "extra 3 hours" is not to get the same thing but to get paid overtime. The 10k SP will be on top of what a character normally earn anyway so you don;t lose anything for not doing it. |
Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1225
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Posted - 2016.05.21 06:45:16 -
[16] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Would have been simpler to start charging 10k SP for every badpost. That'd get all of us off our lazy arses babbling on forums and into game. [Please don't do this CCP, btw]
Guess who's gonna get charged first?
Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
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Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari End of Life
44745
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Posted - 2016.05.21 07:09:33 -
[17] - Quote
Marsha Mallow wrote:Would have been simpler to start charging 10k SP for every badpost... Hmmm, wonder what happens when I go into negative skillpoints.
Come Win At Eve - Join The Vendunari
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2585
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Posted - 2016.05.21 07:15:19 -
[18] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:Marsha Mallow wrote:Would have been simpler to start charging 10k SP for every badpost... Hmmm, wonder what happens when I go into negative skillpoints.
a biomass :p
i feel the op doesn't understand why ppl are so bothered by this as his examples are apples and oranges.
the biggest issue in the comparison being you can get isk and LP in many different ways dailies will be the only way to make SP outside of the passive train. and even if it is just one rat it is still grinding for levels. what was good about eve is you didn't need to do that to keep on par
Citadel worm hole tax
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Zappity
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
2851
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Posted - 2016.05.21 07:30:14 -
[19] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:As much as I abhor recurring opportunities, I'd support a recurring opportunity for Project Discovery. This. I don't like the current iteration but if the results look positive enough to CCP I hope they expand the concept. Exploration, Project Discovery, Invention, Manufacturing etc would be great.
Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
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Geronimo McVain
McVain's Minning and Exploration Inc
73
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Posted - 2016.05.21 08:19:36 -
[20] - Quote
War Kitten wrote:Hot on the heels of the wildly popular recurring opportunities announcement, rumor has it that CCP will continue to offer all the same recurring opportunities it has for years, including:
snip
(Yes, I know there are arguments about the specifics of this first incarnation of recurring opportunities, but "feeling penalized" is the silliest of them.) lol, some people need a REALLY big sign to catch an ironic post. With all these daily whiners they assume you are one whenever you post daily.
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Primary This Rifter
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
1179
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Posted - 2016.05.21 09:54:01 -
[21] - Quote
Caim Naberius wrote:what? OP is making fun of people who are pissed off about CCP offering 10k extra SP to characters for each day that they log in and kill at least one NPC. |
Titti Sabezan
SYNDIC Unlimited
8
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Posted - 2016.05.21 16:23:21 -
[22] - Quote
3 possible things :-
1) As an alternative, CCP could just deduct the SP from any account that doesn't log in during a day (downtime to downtime). SPs would then come off the skill with the highest total, or the one with the highest skill level, or some other criterion.
2) Amend the criterion for getting the SPs, from "Kill an NPC rat" to "KIll a PC ship" -- make this kill immune from CONCARN retaliation and extend it to hi-sec, and watch the carebears run for cover. NOTE: the victim would not get an SP bonus for being killed, and arguably ought to lose SP instead, as an additional penalty, if the killmail doesn't show he fought back.
3) Add as a criterion, buy/sell something for more than 1M isk (that should satisfy the traders)
Signed A Carebear
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Memphis Baas
1585
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Posted - 2016.05.21 17:28:49 -
[23] - Quote
You're trying to change the intended effect, which apparently is "undock and spend some time in space, give PVP'ers a chance to shoot you."
For example, if they gave 10,000 points for "Do 100 Project Discovery slides while orbiting an asteroid in a belt uncloaked" that would be more along the lines of what CCP seems to want. You're spending time being a target in a belt, and that big PD screen blocks most of your view, so you're a really easy target. |
Davian Thule Pirkibo
Absolute Massive Destruction Test Alliance Please Ignore
48
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Posted - 2016.05.21 17:36:00 -
[24] - Quote
Sooo, everyone on eve forums hate it, and everyone on reddit loves it. lol |
Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
23
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Posted - 2016.05.21 18:17:28 -
[25] - Quote
Memphis Baas wrote:You're trying to change the intended effect, which apparently is "undock and spend some time in space, give PVP'ers a chance to shoot you."
For example, if they gave 10,000 points for "Do 100 Project Discovery slides while orbiting an asteroid in a belt uncloaked" that would be more along the lines of what CCP seems to want. You're spending time being a target in a belt, and that big PD screen blocks most of your view, so you're a really easy target.
Which why i would make it harder than it is.
You would have the choice of several opportunities:
1) For every 50 isk of bounty you kill( so gross bounty) you get 1 sp up to 10k per day 2) For every 1000 isk of value of player ship you destroy( Total isk value of ship and mods divided by all on KM equally) you earn 1 SP up to 15k SP per day( PVPers get a bonus cause this is a pvp game and PVP requires A LOT more skills than killing a rat) This counts for any player structures as well: citadels, POS structures, sov structures, personal structures such as MTU. 3) For every 10 m3 of ore you mine in highsec, 5 m3 in low, or 2 m3 in null you earn 1 SP up to 10k 4) For every 5 relic/data sites in high sec, 2 in low, 1 in null), you complete you earn 5k sp up to 10k sp per day. 5) For every Wormhole you jump through you earn 1000 sp up to 10k sp. Jumping through from each side of the WH only counts once every 5 minutes, so using the same WH you would have to do this for 25 minutes.
You must accept each one to make it active for the day. you may accept all of them at once. Only the first one completed counts. |
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries
60
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Posted - 2016.05.21 18:36:00 -
[26] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Scipio Artelius wrote:Marsha Mallow wrote:Would have been simpler to start charging 10k SP for every badpost... Hmmm, wonder what happens when I go into negative skillpoints. a biomass :p i feel the op doesn't understand why ppl are so bothered by this as his examples are apples and oranges. the biggest issue in the comparison being you can get isk and LP in many different ways dailies will be the only way to make SP outside of the passive train. and even if it is just one rat it is still grinding for levels. what was good about eve is you didn't need to do that to keep on par
"Keep on par" with who? The guy that already has more than 100 millions SP? The guy that is spending billions of isk in skill injectors? The guy with +5 implants? The guy that is buying multiple pilots certificates for all his alts? or The guy that started yesterday? The PvPer that never use stat boosting implants? The guy that is selling his skill points trough skill extractors? The guy that is unsubbed?
People already earn SP in EVE at different speeds. This "kill a rat" thing is approximately the same as having +5 implants. And let's be honest, after you have mastered the needed ship classes, more SP don't make you better at it, they only broaden the kinds of actions you can do and the number of ships you can use.
What is important is to keep the cap at 10K SP/day, regardless of the number of dailies you do, while allowing different actions for people interested in different kinds of play. If you are a trader putting up a buy or sell order should give the same deal, once a day 10K SP, but, to repeat it, even if you do multiple dailies the toal SP gained shouldn't be more than 10K SP. People ear
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ube smoked
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.05.21 18:39:21 -
[27] - Quote
CCP = Making content for null. Reality = Nobody is in null. CCP = But it makes for great videos! Reality = Nobody cares.
I'm amazed this has been going on for so long. CCP has zero insight. They are lost. |
Galaxxis
Unicorn Rampage
85
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Posted - 2016.05.21 18:42:42 -
[28] - Quote
ube smoked wrote:CCP = Making content for null. Reality = Nobody is in null. CCP = But it makes for great videos! Reality = Nobody cares.
I'm amazed this has been going on for so long. CCP has zero insight. They are lost.
Do you even know where you are right now? It sounds a lot like you've never played this game. |
Roenok Baalnorn
Sadistically Sinister
23
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Posted - 2016.05.21 18:49:03 -
[29] - Quote
ube smoked wrote:CCP = Making content for null. Reality = Nobody is in null. CCP = But it makes for great videos! Reality = Nobody cares.
I'm amazed this has been going on for so long. CCP has zero insight. They are lost.
Thats interesting because the 0.0 system i just logged out of on my main had 65 alliance members in it. The one next door had about 35 and thats only 2 of our systems. You would be hard pressed to find a system that doesnt have an alliance member in. We also have frequent "guest" some of which pretend its a campground because we are taking or took their space so they think camping us in a system is actually doing something.
All the content in this game that actually matters happens in null. No one cares about the carebears in high sec. Most of those you see in high sec are alts of null players. We use them to shop, mission, grief actual high sec residents, or just take a little vacation in carebear land.
If you removed the alts of null sec players from high sec, it would be a pretty desolate place.
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Genoir
VOLTAGE REGULATORS Separatists
15
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Posted - 2016.05.21 23:35:04 -
[30] - Quote
Quote: Ok, here is a lesson in economics so that you can understand why people are unhappy with this. To clarify I disagree with the concept of rewards based around logging in completely, players should want to login anyway and if you need to incentivise players to login to the game using cheap tricks, then you should take a good look at the game in general to figure out why people don't want to play in the first place.
And to the question, the reason people are unhappy with using SP as a reward is that it devalues SP.
To give you this as an example as it me be more easily understandable.
Let us say you earn -ú20,000 a year, and there is -ú1billion in the total economy in circulation. The bank decides to print off another -ú1billion effectively doubling the amount of money in the economy.
If you are following you have probably realised that your previous salary of -ú20,000 per year is now actually worth -ú10,000 year despite the fact that you are not actually losing any physical money and are still on a salary of -ú20,000 per year.
You also had -ú100,000 in saving which you had worked hard to save up for putting away half your salary each year for the past ten years. This again is now actually only worth -ú50,000 effectively halving your investment in real terms.
Now apply this to skill points. In order to keep up with our current salary (SP/hour), we now being told we need to login to kill a rat every day. If your boss told you that you need to stay behind at work for another 3 hours for the same salary, then I expect you may feel like he is penalising you wouldn't you?
Like I said though, for me it is just the fact that CCP is using this lame mechanic in order to get people to login rather than working on making a fundamentally good game. The fact that they are linking the reward soley to one of the most boring PvE activities in the game just shows how poorly thought out the idea really is.
You know that's not how it works right? Possibly the single worst example you could have made.
Your 'lesson in economics' aside. The analogy about working an additional 3 hours to get the same salary is also woefully incorrect.
You'll continue to receive your standard 'salary' but you are being given the chance to get paid 3 hours 'overtime' for staying 5 minutes late. |
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