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maCH'EttE
Furnace Thermodynamics
208
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Posted - 2016.05.28 05:35:04 -
[1] - Quote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R84Pk847waE |
Lugh Crow-Slave
2655
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Posted - 2016.05.28 05:44:54 -
[2] - Quote
... if anything that video showed the weakness of carriers.
showing just how hard it is to volly ships with them
however yes a carrier with support fighting 1-2 sub capitals at a time is going to do very very well.
however you can do this same thing better in nados and talos. and in a real fight carriers are kinda meh at best
hell you could do this same thing with the old carriers usign sentries and it was more effective
Citadel worm hole tax
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Dracvlad
Taishi Combine Second-Dawn
1657
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Posted - 2016.05.28 08:39:57 -
[3] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:... if anything that video showed the weakness of carriers.
showing just how hard it is to volly ships with them
however yes a carrier with support fighting 1-2 sub capitals at a time is going to do very very well.
however you can do this same thing better in nados and talos. and in a real fight carriers are kinda meh at best
hell you could do this same thing with the old carriers usign sentries and it was more effective
EDIT i would say the scan res on fighters should be lowered to that of at most a cruiser but like i said carriers are far less effective at this than they used to be
bringing back the watch list would also solve this issue
The scan res is fine, frigates are in fact bigger than fighters, it makes sense to be able to hit them, fighters are quite easy to kill.
The watch list changes are good for Eve, it is free intel for lazy people, but I hope CCP will use the new observatrory structures to enable some of this functionality back at a constellation level. So people who hunt will have to put something up in space which can be removed.
COHE, the Coalition of Hisec Entities is now in operation, time to make hisec work for people who operate there.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2660
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Posted - 2016.05.28 09:31:33 -
[4] - Quote
why even bother killing the fighters just jam them. even an unbounded jam has a high chance of landing
Citadel worm hole tax
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Nalia White
Tencus
181
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Posted - 2016.05.28 11:47:04 -
[5] - Quote
watched many carrier videos since they got changed... totaly out of whack atm in my opinion. the huge burst of the fighters is problematic... they oneshot just too many things. and with the possibility of the carrier now locking pretty fast what are you gonna do as a small ship? then again i never was a big fan of the changes for capitals to get anti-subcapital weapons.
I think it's bad design that capital ships can hold their ground on their own now and the only thing that can stop them is ECM which in turn makes it pretty boring for the capital pilot to be countered in this way. watch bjorn bees solo carrier. He always has to fight against stream snipers. How long will it take for them to bring 1 or 2 falcons? Soft counters are always preferred to hard counters gameplaywise, hard counters will make fights boring.
but that's just me and personaly i will never have to do anything with carriers so meh |
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs Curatores Veritatis Alliance
241
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Posted - 2016.05.28 14:43:47 -
[6] - Quote
Has anyone noticed that the one constant in all these carrier videos is the Networked Sensor Array?
Why don't we just discuss bringing that module down a bit? Maybe 900% scan res bonus is too much?
Before we start ranting about taking the nerf bat to the entire ship, I think we should look at adjusting the module that gives them their current crazy lock times.
Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!
Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)
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Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
10273
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Posted - 2016.05.28 15:41:38 -
[7] - Quote
Maybe it's just me, but I find watching videos of other people playing games a complete waste of my precious free time. And EVE videos in particular, boring as ****.
The last time I did that was because back in the seventies we had to stand in line at the arcade to play one of these newfangled video games. The happiest day of my life is when home systems became affordable.
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass!
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d0cTeR9
Serenity Cartel Rebel Squad
361
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Posted - 2016.05.28 17:17:06 -
[8] - Quote
Nalia White wrote:watched many carrier videos since they got changed... totaly out of whack atm in my opinion. the huge burst of the fighters is problematic... they oneshot just too many things. and with the possibility of the carrier now locking pretty fast what are you gonna do as a small ship? then again i never was a big fan of the changes for capitals to get anti-subcapital weapons. I think it's bad design that capital ships can hold their ground on their own now and the only thing that can stop them is ECM which in turn makes it pretty boring for the capital pilot to be countered in this way. watch bjorn bees solo carrier. He always has to fight against stream snipers. How long will it take for them to bring 1 or 2 falcons? Soft counters are always preferred to hard counters gameplaywise, hard counters will make fights boring. but that's just me and personaly i will never have to do anything with carriers so meh
Not true at all. It shows you have nothing to do with carriers or capital.
Been around since the beginning.
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maCH'EttE
Furnace Thermodynamics
208
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Posted - 2016.05.29 00:40:02 -
[9] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:... if anything that video showed the weakness of carriers.
showing just how hard it is to volly ships with them
however yes a carrier with support fighting 1-2 sub capitals at a time is going to do very very well.
however you can do this same thing better in nados and talos. and in a real fight carriers are kinda meh at best
hell you could do this same thing with the old carriers usign sentries and it was more effective
EDIT i would say the scan res on fighters should be lowered to that of at most a cruiser but like i said carriers are far less effective at this than they used to be
bringing back the watch list would also solve this issue Weakness, you must be a clown with a big big red nose. Cant you see the alpha, the speed of its drones, the speed of its lock, yeah you are a clown. No you are just a carrier pilot who is just taking advantage of the OPness of carriers, just look at your recent kllls, https://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&view=kills&plt_id=1524965&m=5&y=2016 killing a garmour with two carriers. |
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs Curatores Veritatis Alliance
241
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Posted - 2016.05.29 01:11:48 -
[10] - Quote
maCH'EttE wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:... if anything that video showed the weakness of carriers.
showing just how hard it is to volly ships with them
however yes a carrier with support fighting 1-2 sub capitals at a time is going to do very very well.
however you can do this same thing better in nados and talos. and in a real fight carriers are kinda meh at best
hell you could do this same thing with the old carriers usign sentries and it was more effective
EDIT i would say the scan res on fighters should be lowered to that of at most a cruiser but like i said carriers are far less effective at this than they used to be
bringing back the watch list would also solve this issue Weakness, you must be a clown with a big big red nose. Cant you see the alpha, the speed of its drones, the speed of its lock, yeah you are a clown. No you are just a carrier pilot who is just taking advantage of the OPness of carriers, just look at your recent kllls, https://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&view=kills&plt_id=1524965&m=5&y=2016 killing a garmour with two carriers. Oh god, a ship now exists that can counter the Frigate Menace and it's not other Frigates. Time to go riot in Jita.
Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!
Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)
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Tiddle Jr
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
869
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Posted - 2016.05.29 03:07:17 -
[11] - Quote
yes, they are not
thx
"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
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Aiwha
Infinite Point Violence of Action.
1184
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Posted - 2016.05.29 03:48:43 -
[12] - Quote
Oh noes, a garmur can't solo a carrier? WHAT A TRAVESTY!
Sanity is fun leaving the body.
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MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs Curatores Veritatis Alliance
242
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Posted - 2016.05.29 04:18:01 -
[13] - Quote
Now, again, there MIGHT be some merit in taking a look at all the bonuses provided by the Networked Sensor Array. Obviously if you engage a carrier with inferior force and get destroyed, you made a bad decision and nothing is wrong gameplay wise.
However, if you make the correct decision to avoid the carrier due to not having enough firepower to take it down, I think you should be allowed at least some means of escape. Right now the NSA gives you lock times that might be a little too good.
By no means am I saying take the bat to the module, but maybe a reduction to the scan res bonus could at least be discussed.
Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!
Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)
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Suitonia
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
685
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Posted - 2016.05.29 04:44:18 -
[14] - Quote
The problem with the Carriers ATM is the 30k Alpha from the Rocket Ability which applies perfectly to everything with 100m signature radius, 30k Alpha (its 12k Alpha to frigates) basically one-shots everything in the game that isn't a max tank fit of that class, even 8km/s snaked/linked maledictions get one shot by this ability, which is disgusting honestly. There should be a purpose of Sub-Capital ships, Why bring anything Subcapital when a Carrier with a few Omnis is better anti-support than everything subcapital by a 4-5x margin, its like 3x Tornado with 700% bonus to tracking and double rate of fire bonus, strapped onto a ship with 900k EHP and sits 2500km away perma aligned to station, or on top of a citadel (yes, it can get that cancerous). Also these carriers after insurance cost less than a T3 Cruiser.
Contributer to Eve is Easy:
https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos
Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o
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Hawke Frost
179
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Posted - 2016.05.29 05:24:59 -
[15] - Quote
Anyone who states that carriers aren't too powerful right now loses any and all credibility. |
FT Cold
FUITA The Bastard Cartel
57
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Posted - 2016.05.29 05:38:34 -
[16] - Quote
Suitonia wrote:The problem with the Carriers ATM is the 30k Alpha from the Rocket Ability which applies perfectly to everything with 100m signature radius, 30k Alpha (its 12k Alpha to frigates) basically one-shots everything in the game that isn't a max tank fit of that class, even 8km/s snaked/linked maledictions get one shot by this ability, which is disgusting honestly. There should be a purpose of Sub-Capital ships, Why bring anything Subcapital when a Carrier with a few Omnis is better anti-support than everything subcapital by a 4-5x margin, its like 3x Tornado with 700% bonus to tracking and double rate of fire bonus, strapped onto a ship with 900k EHP and sits 2500km away perma aligned to station, or on top of a citadel (yes, it can get that cancerous). Also these carriers after insurance cost less than a T3 Cruiser.
Said best here. What's worse is that they were told over and over that it was going to be a problem. I sometimes honestly wonder whether the devs actually play the game.
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Tiddle Jr
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
870
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Posted - 2016.05.29 06:10:47 -
[17] - Quote
FT Cold wrote:Suitonia wrote:The problem with the Carriers ATM is the 30k Alpha from the Rocket Ability which applies perfectly to everything with 100m signature radius, 30k Alpha (its 12k Alpha to frigates) basically one-shots everything in the game that isn't a max tank fit of that class, even 8km/s snaked/linked maledictions get one shot by this ability, which is disgusting honestly. There should be a purpose of Sub-Capital ships, Why bring anything Subcapital when a Carrier with a few Omnis is better anti-support than everything subcapital by a 4-5x margin, its like 3x Tornado with 700% bonus to tracking and double rate of fire bonus, strapped onto a ship with 900k EHP and sits 2500km away perma aligned to station, or on top of a citadel (yes, it can get that cancerous). Also these carriers after insurance cost less than a T3 Cruiser. Said best here. What's worse is that they were told over and over that it was going to be a problem. I sometimes honestly wonder whether the devs actually play the game.
Wait wait wait, is that only because PL doesn't have yet a carrier doctrine introduced or using a gang of carriers are limiting PL's ability to responce fast enough as a 3rd party? It's obvoiusly not. So now out ratting and spyder tanking carriers became are worth something else and folks start complain about it.
"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
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Fanny'Bandit
ManyTargetsMuchAmmo Cursed Legion.
0
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Posted - 2016.05.29 10:16:44 -
[18] - Quote
ok i find this topic absolutely funny cause up intell now carriers were a waste of time money and training cause all they were where spider tanking at best subpar dps or triage outside of those three things the use for them was maybe ratting but i could complete that faster with shield vindi sooo basically useless
NOW i do aghree they are a tiny bit op to SUBCAPS that are not BS because yes it does track you and yes it should **** on your face but you should have a chance to run that being said the sig radius of the fighter missles should be increased to hit frigates less but as its a heavy missle hitting cruisers like it does is plenty fine
the thing you people dont realize is these are CAPITAL SHIPS they are not ment to be taken down by a **** ant rag tag group of 5 or 6 cruisers like they were easily killed with before i use to watch my buddy gulnar SOLO a carrier in a blackops no that is not eve close to balanced or fair
carriers now are alot more useful and finalyl feel like a capital ship should be they need to be tweaked but otherwise right where they should be as they have MULTIPLE counters if you bring a proper fleet my 10 man fleet on test has killed 25 caps of ours testing these fleets anything under 10 ships should not kill a capital inless brought for that purpose to counter a regular carrier you bring two falcons or **** even just one we brought a jamgu 3 megas two guardians and a few bombers with the jamgu the fighters barely got a shot off ever as they only have sensor strenght of 4 soo and the carrier pilot died
episode two we took another 10 man fleet to fight another one of our carriers on test this time we brought two basis a brick huginnand 7 extended caracals with a mix of light missles and heavy missles as the carrier launched drones we locked them hugin web paint we blapped a whole squadron in about 7 seconds and they couldnt break none of our dps
episode three we took it a step further to test and brought a falcon so a squishy jams but we fit it for pvp shield style with our pair of basis and our shield extended resist fit caracals we killed him yet AGAIN with only sustaining one loss
so yes carriers can easily be killed just have to bring a 6 to 10 man fleet to do the job instead of a two man fleet like before
so now lets compare this to a true navy vessal a aircraft carrier in real life is really only countered by submarines or a massive fleet due to the simple fact they have such powerful anti frigate/dessi/missle weapons that nothing can get withing 150 plus miles of strikeing distance without being locked and destroyed ontop of them ALWAYS haveing aircraft in the air .....so yes it is living true to what a carrier should be
AND on a side note a fully buffer respictable carrier fit gets dropped in no time by two to three dreads and it wont even scratch the dreads which is a CARRIER COUNTER IN small gang warefare carriers are very very powerful and in large scale warfare carriers are actually pretty week and used as pretty much fleet support to kill super fighters or enemy subcaps IF they can before there fighters die....NOW super carriers and titans are a completely differant story so
all in all carriers need adjusted SLIGHTLY but not that much cause they are a capital and should destroy fleets that are not properly suited to killing a damn capital but anything above cruiser **** even hacs you cannot one voli if they are plated/extended and resist fit on top of that and i can prove this as i have carrier 5 and light/fighters 5 so i put out max dmg with them and still cannot one shot a caracal outta shields if it is properly buffer fit to tank said ships...SIMPLY put DONT FIGHT CARRIERS INLESS YOU FIT FOR THE JOB people are just pissed that the day of frigates rapeing anything is slowly being gone so you will have to spend isk to kill big **** |
Cristl
449
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Posted - 2016.05.29 11:12:36 -
[19] - Quote
Reduce the bonus of the networked sensor array somewhat Reduce rocket alpha somewhat, maybe reduce their application a bit Get rid of capital insurance. |
lanyaie
Nocturnal Romance Cynosural Field Theory.
1140
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Posted - 2016.05.29 11:13:09 -
[20] - Quote
https://zkillboard.com/kill/54290037/
his adventure has come to an end.
Spaceprincess
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Moustache Cuir
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.05.29 11:50:34 -
[21] - Quote
So the problem is that people can't solo a 2.3b carrier in their 25m frig? Jump a ******* dread on grid and quit whining. |
Tiddle Jr
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
870
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Posted - 2016.05.29 11:55:48 -
[22] - Quote
lanyaie wrote:https://zkillboard.com/kill/54290037/
his adventure has come to an end.
https://zkillboard.com/kill/54293533/
"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
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TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
1561
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Posted - 2016.05.29 12:09:20 -
[23] - Quote
Moustache Cuir wrote:So the problem is that people can't solo a 2.3b carrier in their 25m frig? Jump a ******* dread on grid and quit whining.
Judging from that video the problem is a carrier sitting 2000km of a gate, insta-blabbing even interceptors that show up on the gate. They literally get alphad off the field before they can even lock the fighters. Call me crazy, but that might be overpowered just a little bit.
My YouTube Channel - EVE Tutorials & other game related things!
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Bleedingthrough
206
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Posted - 2016.05.29 12:18:58 -
[24] - Quote
Carriers sitting on a Citadel while instantly killing most stuff that comes through a gate is also a thing now. |
Tyyler DURden
Mordechai and Sons Distribution Co.
310
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Posted - 2016.05.29 13:42:36 -
[25] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Maybe it's just me, but I find watching videos of other people playing games a complete waste of my precious free time. And EVE videos in particular, boring as ****. The last time I did that was because back in the seventies we had to stand in line at the arcade to play one of these newfangled video games. The happiest day of my life is when home systems became affordable. Mr Epeen You really dated yourself with the this one Epeen. I wasn't tall enough to stand at an arcade machine well into the eighties.
Tyyler DURden says "use soap"
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2684
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Posted - 2016.05.29 14:14:42 -
[26] - Quote
maCH'EttE wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:... if anything that video showed the weakness of carriers.
showing just how hard it is to volly ships with them
however yes a carrier with support fighting 1-2 sub capitals at a time is going to do very very well.
however you can do this same thing better in nados and talos. and in a real fight carriers are kinda meh at best
hell you could do this same thing with the old carriers usign sentries and it was more effective
EDIT i would say the scan res on fighters should be lowered to that of at most a cruiser but like i said carriers are far less effective at this than they used to be
bringing back the watch list would also solve this issue Weakness, you must be a clown with a big big red nose. Cant you see the alpha, the speed of its drones, the speed of its lock, yeah you are a clown. No you are just a carrier pilot who is just taking advantage of the OPness of carriers, just look at your recent kllls, https://eve-kill.net/?a=pilot_detail&view=kills&plt_id=1524965&m=5&y=2016 killing a garmour with two carriers.
OMG WE KILLED A FRIG WITH TWO CARRIERS!!!!
now take a look at that fight see all the sub caps that killed us and look at just how many we killed.....
without support carriers are nothing just like the video in the op ever one of those killles were made possible by the carriers support.
(they were also a bunch of solo frigs and maybe a cruiser?)
Citadel worm hole tax
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MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs Curatores Veritatis Alliance
245
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Posted - 2016.05.29 15:03:29 -
[27] - Quote
Cristl wrote:Reduce the bonus of the networked sensor array somewhat Reduce rocket alpha somewhat, maybe reduce their application a bit Get rid of capital insurance. Not sure on the third one but the first two sound like the way to go.
Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!
Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)
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Hellaciouss
Minion Revolution Goonswarm Federation
9
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Posted - 2016.05.30 14:22:42 -
[28] - Quote
MidnightWyvern wrote:Now, again, there MIGHT be some merit in taking a look at all the bonuses provided by the Networked Sensor Array. Obviously if you engage a carrier with inferior force and get destroyed, you made a bad decision and nothing is wrong gameplay wise.
However, if you make the correct decision to avoid the carrier due to not having enough firepower to take it down, I think you should be allowed at least some means of escape. Right now the NSA gives you lock times that might be a little too good.
By no means am I saying take the bat to the module, but maybe a reduction to the scan res bonus could at least be discussed.
They instantly lock anything, and can do it from, I believe, max carrier targeting range. Which on the thanny is like 3642KM or some crazy distance. This allows them to camp on a citadel while sending fighters all the way to a gate or station or even other citadels. It's a bit stupid. I think It should become a scriptable mod. You either get scan res or you get targeting range - not both. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2890
|
Posted - 2016.05.30 19:17:51 -
[29] - Quote
This is like a replay of skynet carriers... It's technically different but still feel stupid imo... |
Albert Madullier
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
55
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Posted - 2016.05.31 09:34:46 -
[30] - Quote
half rocket aplha, but shorten the reload too |
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