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Lukas Wiinholt
Orion Rock Enterprises Kanen Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.05.29 11:38:42 -
[1] - Quote
Hey!
So i finally bought a PLEX to be able to purchase more expensive ships. I went and bought a Stratios. The estimated value of the Stratios is 214 million on the market. I went and bought one for 245(I didnt care about it, i felt rich enough to buy at a little overprice)
Now, before taking this beauty on a test run, i wanted to insure it. I didnt want my 214 million to go to waste because i might get ganked by some random ppl. So going into the insurance page, it looked like this:
Picture of Insurance
Does that really make sense? Buys a ship estimated at 214 million but can only insure for 11 million? Did i get ripped off? |
Matt Benneth
Perkone Caldari State
13
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Posted - 2016.05.29 11:47:44 -
[2] - Quote
Insurance is calculated not from the market price of the ship but from price of materials from which is built. In case of a Stratios its build price is the same as for all faction cruisers = build price of T1 cruiser. |
Lukas Wiinholt
Orion Rock Enterprises Kanen Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.05.29 11:49:18 -
[3] - Quote
Matt Benneth wrote:Insurance is calculated not from the market price of the ship but from price of materials from which is built. In case of a Stratios its build price is the same as for all faction cruisers = build price of T1 cruiser.
But that is stupid? It should calculate in the price of the rareity? The insurance should cover what the Stratios is worth. And to build it again i need alot more than just the materials.. |
Master OrionStarhunter
Orion Rock Enterprises Kanen Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.05.29 11:49:45 -
[4] - Quote
I completely agree with this. It used to be that no matter the cost of the ship, platinum insurance covered the base cost of your ship (minus modules). This is not the case now, and should be corrected. What's the point of buying 11 mil ISK insurance on a ship that goes for 240+ mil on the regional market....
Am I the only one besides Lukas who doesn't see the logic in this??? |
Master OrionStarhunter
Orion Rock Enterprises Kanen Federation
0
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Posted - 2016.05.29 11:54:45 -
[5] - Quote
Matt Benneth wrote:Insurance is calculated not from the market price of the ship but from price of materials from which is built. In case of a Stratios its build price is the same as for all faction cruisers = build price of T1 cruiser.
No that's not correct, it is the cost of a T1 + The BPC which is far more expensive than the SOE SHip itself... CCP needs to fix this. Back when this was Tyrannis, to Odyssey, your ships were insured in Plat. Insurance up to the total value of the ship, per market value. You don't buy a car and the insurance only covers the materials for your vehicle.. they cover the whole car....
Again, this makes no logical sense... cover the cost of the more expensive ships for crying out loud.
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony The Wraithguard.
323
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Posted - 2016.05.29 15:25:43 -
[6] - Quote
Actually they don't even cover the car. They just collect the money.
As for EvE, it's an incentive to fly T1. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Escalating Entropy
9963
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Posted - 2016.05.29 17:45:03 -
[7] - Quote
Master OrionStarhunter wrote:I completely agree with this. It used to be that no matter the cost of the ship, platinum insurance covered the base cost of your ship (minus modules). This is not the case now, and should be corrected. Sorry... but this has been the case since I started playing back in 2009.
For Faction (Navy and Pirate), Tech 2, and Tech 3 ships... insurance has always been poor for them because it only factors in the value of the minerals used to make a ship. All other considerations (moon goo, rarity, LP cost) are not, and have never been, factored in.
Master OrionStarhunter wrote:Back when this was Tyrannis, to Odyssey, your ships were insured in Plat. Insurance up to the total value of the ship, This was a bug. It was fixed.
Master OrionStarhunter wrote:What's the point of buying 11 mil ISK insurance on a ship that goes for 240+ mil on the regional market....
Am I the only one besides Lukas who doesn't see the logic in this??? It is a balancing thing.
When you buy expensive ships and equipment that are "better" than the regular Tech 1 variants, you are effectively "not poor" and "not a newbie"... the people the insurance system is supposed to assist. The thinking is, if you can buy an expensive ship, you SHOULD be able to afford the loss of that ship.
Another thing to consider; if you could take out insurance on an expensive ship and get more or less the full hull value back when it does... why would you ever fly anything less expensive ever again? "Flying expensive" is a penalty in of itself.
How did you Veterans start?
"Learn how things work. The intricacies, interactions, and hard limits... knowing these things will grant you far more power in the long run."
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2616
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Posted - 2016.05.29 20:19:44 -
[8] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Another thing to consider; if you could take out insurance on an expensive ship and get more or less the full hull value back when it dies... why would you ever fly anything less expensive ever again?
This is the crux of the issue as far as I'm concerned. If everything were fully insurable then prices would be nothing but an initial barrier to entry; once you purchased a ship you would effectively have that ship forever. Loss would no longer be meaningful in any way. |
Sheeth Athonille
Rabid Dogz Mining The Bastion
107
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Posted - 2016.05.30 09:24:13 -
[9] - Quote
Add on top of that the issue of insurance being an isk faucet and the reasons why expensive ships aren't fully insured starts to make a lot of sense. |
Anthar Thebess
1525
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Posted - 2016.05.30 10:04:06 -
[10] - Quote
This is correct, faction ships, T2 and T3 ships don't cover full payout. Insurance is already injecting a lot of ISK into the system, don't make it worst.
Fly in ships you can afford to replace.
Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists
Show your support to The Cause!
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2617
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Posted - 2016.05.30 10:15:28 -
[11] - Quote
Sheeth Athonille wrote:Add on top of that the issue of insurance being an isk faucet and the reasons why expensive ships aren't fully insured starts to make a lot of sense.
I'd normally have thrown this in as well, but I suspect that at least for the moment there's an awful lot of ISK leaving the economy between new skills, new blueprints, and increased broker's fees. The overall point is still valid of course, it just doesn't have the same import right now.
There's an interesting argument to be had here about insurance payouts of capital ships as well. Right now they're awfully high.... |
elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1227
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Posted - 2016.05.30 11:05:29 -
[12] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:Sheeth Athonille wrote:Add on top of that the issue of insurance being an isk faucet and the reasons why expensive ships aren't fully insured starts to make a lot of sense. I'd normally have thrown this in as well, but I suspect that at least for the moment there's an awful lot of ISK leaving the economy between new skills, new blueprints, and increased broker's fees. The overall point is still valid of course, it just doesn't have the same import right now. There's an interesting argument to be had here about insurance payouts of capital ships as well. Right now they're awfully high....
You forgot clone jumping, failed attempts at clone jumping, don't clone jump ever again.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1227
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Posted - 2016.05.30 11:07:53 -
[13] - Quote
Lukas Wiinholt wrote:..But that is stupid? It should calculate in the price of the rareity? The insurance should cover what the Stratios is worth. And to build it again i need alot more than just the materials..
I am sorry to tell you this but the Stratios is a rare as veldspar. According the Sisters of EVE LP store, they have an infinite stock.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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Anke Eyrou
Hades Sisters
66
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Posted - 2016.05.30 21:32:55 -
[14] - Quote
You think 11mil is a bad payout. Try losing an uninsured Gnosis. I got 2.40 isk as compensaion (LOL).
I expect to get this post deleted or locked. So much for freedom of expression.
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Nalia White
Tencus
186
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Posted - 2016.05.30 21:58:09 -
[15] - Quote
Anke Eyrou wrote:You think 11mil is a bad payout. Try losing an uninsured Gnosis. I got 2.40 isk as compensaion (LOL).
haha, really? but they do cost minerals like a normal bc to build right? |
C-137
C3 Corporation
0
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Posted - 2016.05.30 22:02:01 -
[16] - Quote
Insurance cost is based on the mineral build cost of the ship, not the current market value. T2 and Faction ship mineral cost is only a small portion of the ship cost, mainly since you have to spend ~40,000,000 isk for the blueprint for 1 Astero.
The reason this came to be is because you used to be able to build a T1 battle ship, insure it, and then self-destruct it, and make more money than if you sold the Minerals or the Ship.
T2 and Faction ships are part of the Pimp`yo`ride program, and are meant to be an isk drain. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
17756
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Posted - 2016.05.30 22:51:58 -
[17] - Quote
Master OrionStarhunter wrote:I completely agree with this. It used to be that no matter the cost of the ship, platinum insurance covered the base cost of your ship (minus modules).
This was never the case.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his ISK/hr depends upon his not understanding it!"
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2071
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Posted - 2016.05.31 00:32:50 -
[18] - Quote
I think there are a couple of folks in this thread that don't actually pay insurance in RL. If the way Eve insurance works bothers you in the slightest - I strongly recommend you never grow up in RL. You're so going to hate it. |
Anke Eyrou
Hades Sisters
66
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Posted - 2016.05.31 07:13:20 -
[19] - Quote
Nalia White wrote:Anke Eyrou wrote:You think 11mil is a bad payout. Try losing an uninsured Gnosis. I got 2.40 isk as compensaion (LOL). haha, really? but they do cost minerals like a normal bc to build right?
Yes they do cost mats to build but if you don't believe me try losing one.
I expect to get this post deleted or locked. So much for freedom of expression.
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elitatwo
Eve Minions O.U.Z.O. Alliance
1232
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Posted - 2016.05.31 11:48:44 -
[20] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Master OrionStarhunter wrote:I completely agree with this. It used to be that no matter the cost of the ship, platinum insurance covered the base cost of your ship (minus modules). This was never the case.
Yes it was. There was a time before you joined, you know. Everything had a base price since the 10 citizens of New Eden couldn't manage to mine all the minerals in the few Ospreys around.
The Ospreys base price was 2.2m in any of the Caldari empire stations. A Raven used to cost 108m isk. The platinum level insurance was 39m. The insurance payout in case of an involuntary disassembly was 108m.
Then came 9258248592758256729569561794 Chinese teenagers and mined all veldspar and devalued all isk. Producers of now researched bpo owners could sell them at 89.5m isk.
For unknown reasons everyone flew battleships all the time..
Fast forward and miners was upset. CCP made miners more isk and 2.5 fold increase the build cost for all ships. Thank you miners.
Then CCP thought it was a good idea to give 9353076280452 bazillions to everyone in highsec (but me) and assumes everyone has so much that they all fly motherships and titans all day.
Then came new player and cried he couldn't fly titan before the end of the tutorial, CCP gave them a lobotomy so they can have all zee skillpoints at once and don't have to bother with boring stuff like training skills first.
2017, nobody remembers EVE anymore but rumor has it, that it used to be a game about spaceships until something went wrong.
Eve Minions is recruiting. Learn from about pvp, learn about ships and how to fly them correctly. Small gang and solo action in high, low and nullsec and w-space alike.
We will teach you everything you need and want to know.
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Amanda Chan
Error 404 Corporation not found Electroshock Therapy
118
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Posted - 2016.06.01 05:35:06 -
[21] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote: It is a balancing thing.
When you buy expensive ships and equipment that are "better" than the regular Tech 1 variants, you are effectively "not poor" and "not a newbie"... the people the insurance system is supposed to assist. The thinking is, if you can buy an expensive ship, you SHOULD be able to afford the loss of that ship.
Another thing to consider; if you could take out insurance on an expensive ship and get more or less the full hull value back when it dies... why would you ever fly anything less expensive ever again? "Flying expensive" is a penalty in of itself.
Capital pilots would like to have a word with you. They are neither poor nor newbies...usually.
Regardless. If it's not a tech 1 hull then 90% of the time it's not worth insuring. |
The Bigpuns
Touring New Eden Haven.
175
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Posted - 2016.06.01 13:26:53 -
[22] - Quote
I build ship for 11 mil isk.
I insure ship for 240 mil isk.
I undock in ship, have an alt blow it up, and profit.
Repeat.
The reason this cycle does not occur in rl, is that not many people build their own cars (despite a glut of materials on the market), and also this behaviour would get them arrested. |
Gimme Sake
State War Academy Caldari State
362
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Posted - 2016.06.01 14:39:37 -
[23] - Quote
The Bigpuns wrote:I build ship for 11 mil isk.
I insure ship for 240 mil isk.
I undock in ship, have an alt blow it up, and profit.
Repeat.
The reason this cycle does not occur in rl, is that not many people build their own cars (despite a glut of materials on the market), and also this behaviour would get them arrested.
If you could build a 240mill isk ship for only 11mil then you would prob sell it not destroy it because insuring it also costs.
"Never not blob!" ~ Plato
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2089
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Posted - 2016.06.02 02:54:23 -
[24] - Quote
True story. I haven't insured a ship since 07/08 (somewhere in there). Feel free to check my kb - I've lost a few isk worth of ships between then and now. My point? I'm pretty lazy when it comes to making isk and yet I'm semi space rich despite not insuring my ships. My other point? If the insurance payout amount is on the break even point of your eve experience you're bad at eve or at a minimum doing it wrong.
Insurance should just be removed from the game. It's not needed and it doesn't really do anything for the game. Like I said, if you NEED insurance to be able to pvp (risk ships in any manner) then you're bad at the game or doing it wrong.
If you're arguing about insurance payouts in the name of 'fairness' - take a few steps back, look around, I mean really look around - "fairness" isn't exactly a cornerstone of this game (nor should it be).
Math: You pay a little, and if you screw up you get a lot. Is that a system you really want to mess with? |
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