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Beyl Ahashion
Working Community Inc. Affirmative.
0
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Posted - 2016.06.02 16:06:54 -
[1] - Quote
The defending abilities given to ships should mirror the attacking abilities. For example currently an attacking player in a small ship can gain 3 points of warp scram in a single medium slot with absolutely no penalties. However in order for a defending player to gain 3 points of stab to defend against that scram takes 3 low slots, reduces his targeting range to only 21%, and makes it take almost 5 times as long to target anybody. This in turn makes it pretty much impossible to use stabs to defend against scrams in anything except industrial ships.
Do the attacking ships really need advantages like this in order to win battles? Yes I know that suggestions like this will be hated by all offense players. After all who wants to volunteer to give up an unfair advantage. But what kind of victory is it, when they require advantages like this in order to "win"?
So I propose: - Making the stabs take the same type slot as the scrams, i.e. either both types take a medium slot, or both types take a low slot. - Making varieties of stabs that have the same values as the scrams, for approximately the same cost. I.e. 1, 2, & 3 point varieties. - Making the penalties for using the stab module the same as the penalties of using the scram module. I.e. either removing the penalties from the stabs, or adding the same penalties to the scrams.
What I propose should not prevent tackle ships from being able to tackle other ships. Surely if they want to they can fit more than a single scram onto their ship. It will just level the playing field a little between the tackle ships and the ships that they are tackling.
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Isaac Armer
Tactical Stability Union Apocalypse Now.
252
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Posted - 2016.06.02 16:27:50 -
[2] - Quote
I'm a PvE-er 95% of the time and even this gets a massive -1 from me. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3285
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Posted - 2016.06.02 16:36:38 -
[3] - Quote
If you are fitting stabs why are you bothered about targeting range and sig res? You dont need those attributes if you are trying to run away. And those penalties were added so that sniping ships couldn't use them and just warp away whenever anyone got close to them.
Its not an unfair advantage. Scrams have a very short range and with local and d-scan, its quite hard to catch someone whos paying attention. People use stabs in FW to make lots of isk for low cost and whilst afk/alt tabbed. Stabs dont need a buff.
What you can do: - For the same cost of the scram you are talking about you could buy a RLML caracal and wtfpwn his small ship without stabs...
- If you are trying to run away, use a ship with lots of low slots.
- Fly a venture, DST or use the cloak/MWD trick.
- Pay attention
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
16115
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Posted - 2016.06.02 16:45:17 -
[4] - Quote
And hic pilots everywhere laugh theur asses off at you.
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2904
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Posted - 2016.06.02 16:58:39 -
[5] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:And hic pilots everywhere laugh theur asses off at you.
He'll ask for an infi-stab high slot... |
Elenahina
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
886
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Posted - 2016.06.02 17:21:28 -
[6] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:And hic pilots everywhere laugh theur asses off at you. He'll ask for an infi-stab high slot...
Which will then become a mandatory fitting requirement for every capital ship.
@tha_Op.
you don't balance defense against offense. You balance modules so that the trade-off for using them is roughly equal to the benefit you get for using them.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
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Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
16116
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Posted - 2016.06.02 17:23:15 -
[7] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:And hic pilots everywhere laugh theur asses off at you. He'll ask for an infi-stab high slot... Oh we have one , bastion .
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Julanna Egnald
Del's Industrial Strip Mining
12
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Posted - 2016.06.02 17:53:10 -
[8] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:And hic pilots everywhere laugh theur asses off at you. He'll ask for an infi-stab high slot... Oh we have one , bastion .
Whether you are scrammed or have bastion, you're not going anywhere, so I wouldn't qualify that as an infi-stab. Once it shuts down you're still open for disruption. |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2904
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Posted - 2016.06.02 17:54:50 -
[9] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:And hic pilots everywhere laugh theur asses off at you. He'll ask for an infi-stab high slot... Oh we have one , bastion .
One without an anchor... |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
16118
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Posted - 2016.06.02 18:20:49 -
[10] - Quote
Julanna Egnald wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Ralph King-Griffin wrote:And hic pilots everywhere laugh theur asses off at you. He'll ask for an infi-stab high slot... Oh we have one , bastion . Whether you are scrammed or have bastion, you're not going anywhere, so I wouldn't qualify that as an infi-stab. Once it shuts down you're still open for disruption. indeed
Better the Devil you know.
=]|[=
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Beyl Ahashion
Working Community Inc. Affirmative.
0
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Posted - 2016.06.03 00:41:59 -
[11] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:If you are fitting stabs why are you bothered about targeting range and sig res? You dont need those attributes if you are trying to run away. ... The very fact that I mentioned targetting should tell you that this is not about carebears trying to do nothing but run away. And if you really believed that it was only about carebears running away, then you wouldn't be so determined to maintain a taregetting disadvantage. So you are telling on yourself.
Daichi Yamato wrote:And those penalties were added so that sniping ships couldn't use them and just warp away whenever anyone got close to them. And those that get close to the sniping ships would have the option of using the scrams. Again, this is about levelling the field. It is not about giving one group an unfair advantage, nor an unfair disadvantage.
The other comments weren't worth answering. |
Iain Cariaba
3063
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Posted - 2016.06.03 01:53:18 -
[12] - Quote
Beyl Ahashion wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:If you are fitting stabs why are you bothered about targeting range and sig res? You dont need those attributes if you are trying to run away. ... The very fact that I mentioned targetting should tell you that this is not about carebears trying to do nothing but run away. And if you really believed that it was only about carebears running away, then you wouldn't be so determined to maintain a taregetting disadvantage. So you are telling on yourself. Yeah... You do know that the intended purpose of warp stabs is to enable you to run away, right? Pretty much the only people that use them are carebears, as anyone not a carebear fits far more useful mods in their lows.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Escalating Entropy
10002
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Posted - 2016.06.03 02:06:43 -
[13] - Quote
Sorry OP... but if you are fitting Warp Core Stabilizers, you are not looking for a fight. You are looking for a way to run away.
Beyl Ahashion wrote:And those that get close to the sniping ships would have the option of using the scrams. Again, this is about levelling the field. It is not about giving one group an unfair advantage, nor an unfair disadvantage. Fun Faction: Pre-nerf Warp Core Stabilizers worked exactly the way you want them to work.
Then battleships started fitting them and sniping other ships. You know battleships right? The ships with 6 to 8 low slots? Yeeaaaaaaaaah. They used to load up on WCS, snipe at range, then warp away as soon as a frigate grabbed them.
It was unreasonably hard to catch anything.
So the DEVs nerfed it. And looking at recent changes to many mechanics... the trend is to FORCE people to commit to an engagement rather than skirt around the outside and run when things look bad.
So if you want to fight (like, actually FIGHT) then fit your ship accordingly, use tactics to your advantage, and COMMIT to a fight.
How did you Veterans start?
"Learn how things work. The intricacies, interactions, and hard limits... knowing these things will grant you far more power in the long run."
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Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
1151
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Posted - 2016.06.03 04:05:36 -
[14] - Quote
In his defense, the game has changed.
Now, you have interceptors, and when that WCS using battleship warps off they can be waiting on the other side for him, with time to spare making a fancy formation to look cooler doing it. Even most T1 frigates will be waking from a short nap after chasing a battleship.
If we were to alter them to allow for an option to escape combat gone pear-shaped, I'd prefer them to be limited to one per hull, and that they cycle, with each cycle increasing warp core stability for a duration. Eventually you would get free, but neuts, more ships, etc... would all have interplay to keep a target in place. |
darkneko
Black Cat mining Inc.
10
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Posted - 2016.06.03 04:47:33 -
[15] - Quote
And it sounds like he is just using warp core stabs as an example. |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc Test Alliance Please Ignore
2966
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Posted - 2016.06.03 05:37:03 -
[16] - Quote
Beyl Ahashion wrote:The defending abilities given to ships should mirror the attacking abilities. For example currently an attacking player in a small ship can gain 3 points of warp scram in a single medium slot with absolutely no penalties. However in order for a defending player to gain 3 points of stab to defend against that scram takes 3 low slots, reduces his targeting range to only 21%, and makes it take almost 5 times as long to target anybody. This in turn makes it pretty much impossible to use stabs to defend against scrams in anything except industrial ships. Warp jammers are an intrinsic part of combat. This game is built around the idea that getting away from a fight is a privilege, not a right.
FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."
Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3290
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Posted - 2016.06.03 14:22:12 -
[17] - Quote
Beyl Ahashion wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:If you are fitting stabs why are you bothered about targeting range and sig res? You dont need those attributes if you are trying to run away. ... The very fact that I mentioned targetting should tell you that this is not about carebears trying to do nothing but run away. And if you really believed that it was only about carebears running away, then you wouldn't be so determined to maintain a taregetting disadvantage. So you are telling on yourself. Daichi Yamato wrote:And those penalties were added so that sniping ships couldn't use them and just warp away whenever anyone got close to them. And those that get close to the sniping ships would have the option of using the scrams. Again, this is about levelling the field. It is not about giving one group an unfair advantage, nor an unfair disadvantage. The other comments weren't worth answering.
So if you're trying to fight, stop fitting gtfo mods and fit a combat ship. When it comes to the tackle/evade competition there is more to it than who's spent more on their mods. What you're proposing doesn't level the playing field as such because you're ignoring the other tools a player has for breaking tackle or evading.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2624
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Posted - 2016.06.04 05:48:06 -
[18] - Quote
Beyl Ahashion wrote:Daichi Yamato wrote:If you are fitting stabs why are you bothered about targeting range and sig res? You dont need those attributes if you are trying to run away. ... The very fact that I mentioned targetting should tell you that this is not about carebears trying to do nothing but run away. And if you really believed that it was only about carebears running away, then you wouldn't be so determined to maintain a taregetting disadvantage. So you are telling on yourself. Daichi Yamato wrote:And those penalties were added so that sniping ships couldn't use them and just warp away whenever anyone got close to them. And those that get close to the sniping ships would have the option of using the scrams. Again, this is about levelling the field. It is not about giving one group an unfair advantage, nor an unfair disadvantage. The other comments weren't worth answering.
This is a phenomenal example of why people should play the game more extensively before suggesting major changes to mechanics. Everything in this thread is broken and the attitude displayed to people pointing that out is atrocious. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
2754
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Posted - 2016.06.04 06:22:12 -
[19] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote: This is a phenomenal example of why people should play the game more extensively before suggesting major changes to mechanics. Everything in this thread is broken and the attitude displayed to people pointing that out is atrocious.
while experience will generally help some one avoid posting a failure of an idea It is mych better to have brand new players spew out what ever comes to mind. If its bad no harm dune but who knows they may come up with something great coming to the game with fresh eyes
Citadel worm hole tax
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2625
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Posted - 2016.06.04 06:40:27 -
[20] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:while experience will generally help some one avoid posting a failure of an idea It is mych better to have brand new players spew out what ever comes to mind. If its bad no harm dune but who knows they may come up with something great coming to the game with fresh eyes
Don't get me wrong: I like new player posts. Fresh ideas are good.
My issue is new player posts that then go on to ***** about everyone shooting down the idea and end up devolving into soapboxes on why no one else can see the OP's brilliance because they're too calcified in the old ways. And then announcing things like
Beyl Ahashion wrote:The other comments weren't worth answering.
simply because they aren't pouring on enough adulation and agreement.
Or maybe I'm just in a bad mood tonight. |
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3292
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Posted - 2016.06.05 21:47:48 -
[21] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:And hic pilots everywhere laugh theur asses off at you.
And where did the Heavy Warp Scrambler (6pts) and Heavy Warp Disrupter (3pts) come from?...wow!
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates
2571
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Posted - 2016.06.06 02:52:45 -
[22] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:Beyl Ahashion wrote:The defending abilities given to ships should mirror the attacking abilities. For example currently an attacking player in a small ship can gain 3 points of warp scram in a single medium slot with absolutely no penalties. However in order for a defending player to gain 3 points of stab to defend against that scram takes 3 low slots, reduces his targeting range to only 21%, and makes it take almost 5 times as long to target anybody. This in turn makes it pretty much impossible to use stabs to defend against scrams in anything except industrial ships. Warp jammers are an intrinsic part of combat. This game is built around the idea that getting away from a fight is a privilege, not a right.
Very well said.
CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.
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