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Cade Windstalker
451
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Posted - 2016.06.24 18:48:57 -
[211] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote: Aye the thread started out pretty well, had some good discussion, and a few pages in it died. I've pretty well given up on continuing the original topic by now, but it wasn't a waste of time, I did get at least some partial answers to my questions and I do think it was a good valuable discussion for a while there.
Unfortunately I don't think there is any good way to fix it, it is too broken. Life goes on, and we adapt to the game as it is now. I'll continue missing the good old days though lol
Yeah pretty much what Noxisia said. These days any High-Sec corp that provides any kind of reliable fight is perma-dec'd (see: Eve Uni) and those that don't get dec'd every so often anyways.
Since people aggressively engaging in high-sec PvP are, almost by definition, looking for an unfair fight it's rarely worthwhile to engage with them. They simply don't fight unless they think they can win, the list of tricks that will work on them gets pretty small pretty quickly, and if you can reliably fight them off then they simply go elsewhere until you get bored or complacent, because they've almost definitely got a dozen or two other corps dec'd as well.
Those who actually do enjoy PvP as a lifestyle either get burnt out by this constant aggression or simply move to Low, Null, or Wormholes where the fights are better and more prevalent.
These days it's possible to Graduate from Eve Uni without ever actually being in the corp except to receive your medal, because the corp is constantly dec'd and if you want to engage in PvE without losing your ship it's simply safer to join one of the literally hundreds of smaller corps people use as safe-havens.
Some people like this sort of constant PvP environment, but those who do are going to join a corp that offers it (like Eve Uni, or RvB), and those who don't are going to quickly get tired of it and start dropping corp when it pops up. |
Xolve
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2586
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Posted - 2016.06.24 20:25:38 -
[212] - Quote
Dom Arkaral wrote:Xolve wrote:
Small issue with sec status.
Tags are a thing
I have tags, what I don't have is a enemy worth using them on.
Saeger1737 wrote:I know pl can fight without caps, just for some reason you can't huh?
I can kill Cynabal's at my leisure in lowsec, why would I come to highsec for that?
Especially when they're properly fit Cynabals, and not that armor monstrosity you prefer. |
VegasMirage
Appetite 4 Destruction Appetite 4 Destruction.
1605
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Posted - 2016.06.24 20:34:56 -
[213] - Quote
Xolve wrote: why would I come to highsec
fixed that for you.
no more games... it's real this time!!!
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Xolve
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2586
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Posted - 2016.06.24 20:35:47 -
[214] - Quote
VegasMirage wrote:Xolve wrote: why would I come to highsec fixed that for you.
It's a reasonably inquiry. |
VegasMirage
Appetite 4 Destruction Appetite 4 Destruction.
1606
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Posted - 2016.06.24 20:36:36 -
[215] - Quote
Xolve wrote:VegasMirage wrote:Xolve wrote: why would I come to highsec fixed that for you. It's a reasonable inquiry.
I just thought we answered this question 5 years ago.
no more games... it's real this time!!!
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Xolve
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2589
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Posted - 2016.06.24 20:38:15 -
[216] - Quote
VegasMirage wrote:I just thought we answered this question 5 years ago.
We did, then these idiots moved in and think they invented the wheel.
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VegasMirage
Appetite 4 Destruction Appetite 4 Destruction.
1606
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Posted - 2016.06.24 20:50:02 -
[217] - Quote
Xolve wrote:VegasMirage wrote:I just thought we answered this question 5 years ago. We did, then these idiots moved in and think they invented the wheel.
they have a better chance of making you cry , if they beat you at DOTA2
no more games... it's real this time!!!
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Xolve
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2589
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Posted - 2016.06.24 20:52:14 -
[218] - Quote
VegasMirage wrote:they have a better chance of making you cry , if they beat you at DOTA2
That's a bad game for bad people. |
Nitshe Razvedka
868
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Posted - 2016.06.24 22:03:08 -
[219] - Quote
I'll give you some casual PVP, don't like shields when I do it, but I'll PVP you till you love me.
Seen some nasty PvP in some systems.
Tama is where you get some casual 24/7
Thieving pirates discuss INTEGRITY; Anarchist gankers give us LAWS; and Whoring merc's cry then blow off clients with INSULTS.
Up is down and down is up in the C&P Forum.
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Xolve
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2589
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Posted - 2016.06.25 01:38:27 -
[220] - Quote
Nitshe Razvedka wrote:Tama is where you get some casual 24/7
Saranen and the surrounding area is also pretty good.
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Mobadder Thworst
Hit Squad T.A.U.
1004
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Posted - 2016.06.25 02:48:20 -
[221] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Nitshe Razvedka wrote:Tama is where you get some casual 24/7
I haven't played in Tama for years. However, consentual or non-consentual, I do not remember Tama as "casual PvP."
Tama is more like "50 Shades of PvP"...and it just doesn't feel casual. It is the PvP equivalent of a S&M club.
Don't show up in flip-flops expecting "casual."
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Lan Wang
Knights of the Posing Meat FETID
3238
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Posted - 2016.06.25 08:40:17 -
[222] - Quote
Mobadder Thworst wrote:Xolve wrote:Nitshe Razvedka wrote:Tama is where you get some casual 24/7 I haven't played in Tama for years. However, consentual or non-consentual, I do not remember Tama as "casual PvP." Tama is more like "50 Shades of PvP"...and it just doesn't feel casual. It is the PvP equivalent of a S&M club. Don't show up in flip-flops expecting "casual."
Tama...where titan gatecamps are a thing
FETID now recruiting pvp pilots & corporations | lowsec pvp & piracy - Join FETID
Loyalist to Angel Cartel & Serpentis
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VegasMirage
Blades Of Athena DropBear Sanctuary
1606
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Posted - 2016.06.25 08:57:09 -
[223] - Quote
Xolve wrote:VegasMirage wrote:they have a better chance of making you cry , if they beat you at DOTA2 That's a bad game for bad people. Real men settle their differences, arguments and lady drama in a 6v6 no holds bar match of Overwatch, best of 3 of course.
I was referring to the only thing that nearly made PL cave... DOTA2
no more games... it's real this time!!!
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sk1337
Basement Virgins
0
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Posted - 2016.06.30 14:17:17 -
[224] - Quote
Is it true that PVP in null sec is way more difficult than highsec? like as soon as you jump the gate into null, everything from your keyboard disappears except for F1 key? |
Ro Fenrios
Armilies Corporation Rabble Alliance
198
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Posted - 2016.06.30 15:44:37 -
[225] - Quote
Well, its not that horrible. We do have F key for drones too, but that's only for elite players such as myself. |
Xolve
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
2608
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Posted - 2016.07.05 17:47:16 -
[226] - Quote
Ro Fenrios wrote:Well, its not that horrible. We do have F key for drones too, but that's only for elite players such as myself.
Don't forget 'add pilot to watchlist', orbit at 2500, and overheating various modules, activating prop mods, bubbling, F2 for Siege, F3 for Rocket Salvo, Shift+R to recall fighters, 'Bridge' instead of 'Jump', F3 to light a cyno, the 'jump' dance, double-click mwd cloak, probing all the time, burning pings for warp-ins, rolling safes for fleet links, and all that other stuff rolled into 'haha f1 monkey'. |
Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
126
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Posted - 2016.07.05 18:02:01 -
[227] - Quote
Xolve wrote:Ro Fenrios wrote:Well, its not that horrible. We do have F key for drones too, but that's only for elite players such as myself. Don't forget 'add pilot to watchlist', orbit at 2500, and overheating various modules, activating prop mods, bubbling, F2 for Siege, F3 for Rocket Salvo, Shift+R to recall fighters, 'Bridge' instead of 'Jump', F3 to light a cyno, the 'jump' dance, double-click mwd cloak, probing all the time, burning pings for warp-ins, rolling safes for fleet links, and all that other stuff rolled into 'haha f1 monkey'. Having lived in 0.0 for a 3-4 year period of my EVE career, mostly in pretty mediocre groups, I would have to say that while there are certainly people who do all of that....there are also a lot of truly braindead F1 monkey drones out there who can handle pressing the F1 button and can *almost* handle the added pressure of selecting the correct target while doing so...
I sit 3 feet away from one of them every day at work, and watch his entire coalition doing it (very badly) day after day after day....
If we estimate, what, 50,000 players in 0.0? I'd say at least 40,000 of them are true F1 monkeys, or carebears. That still leaves 10,000 people who use skill to PvP - but I can see why people tend to just generalize to the 40,000 player majority there.
(all numbers are hypothetical, no I don't care enough to look up the actual population of 0.0) |
May Arethusa
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
181
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Posted - 2016.07.21 04:04:35 -
[228] - Quote
There's simply little reason to fight back in High-Sec, doing so and failing only makes yourself a juicier target while success might net you a handful of kills at best. For years the advice given has been "don't fight, dock up" and I guess it has finally begun to stick. The smattering of vets and alts help spread the word, and when you see high-sec corps offering pvp of any kind they usually do so in low/null. I'm more surprised it has taken this long to sink in, though I expect the propensity of many high-sec mercs to simply camp pipes and hubs lessens their threat levels to anyone with half a brain. If taking the offensive held any real benefit, maybe people would try it more often.
As for the whole null-sec thing, it's a product of the regimented style of war out there. You're not expected to know how to fly your ship, but how to follow commands. Individual **** ups tend to go unnoticed when there are 400 other nerds on field. The rest of your time is spent shooting NPCs and running from fights. That isn't to say there aren't competent PVP pilots out there, you just don't see much of them. Most people who don't venture into null-sec only see it through the eyes of streamers and youtube videos, and they naturally prey on the same groups because they know they'll get kills out of it, which skews the perception of null-sec PVP even further. |
Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
494
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Posted - 2016.07.30 18:21:22 -
[229] - Quote
There's a saying over here..Don't let the bastards grind you down.
Sadly I think that's what's happened, wardec after wardec just grinds players and corps down.
Regardless of whether they once came out to fight, getting relentlessly hunted and picked on when all you want to do is a bit of mining/exploration/missioning etc just rips the gaming soul out of players to the point where they say **** it I can't be arsed anymore.
Then they either don't log on anymore or make an alt in an NPC corp for the duration, but due to being permdecced that alt probably becomes their main.
So the reason casual pvp disappeared is down to the merc corps who have ripped the soul out of high sec. Casual pvp isn't casual when it's permanently shoved down your throat.
Small hs mining/indy corps not only can't defend against them, they have no interest in even trying to. You say join together and fight? There's as much chance of us all moving to low/null like CCP wants to try and force us to do, ie none. |
Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
349
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Posted - 2016.07.31 00:35:50 -
[230] - Quote
Drago Shouna wrote:There's a saying over here..Don't let the bastards grind you down.
Sadly I think that's what's happened, wardec after wardec just grinds players and corps down.
Regardless of whether they once came out to fight, getting relentlessly hunted and picked on when all you want to do is a bit of mining/exploration/missioning etc just rips the gaming soul out of players to the point where they say **** it I can't be arsed anymore.
Then they either don't log on anymore or make an alt in an NPC corp for the duration, but due to being permdecced that alt probably becomes their main.
So the reason casual pvp disappeared is down to the merc corps who have ripped the soul out of high sec. Casual pvp isn't casual when it's permanently shoved down your throat.
Small hs mining/indy corps not only can't defend against them, they have no interest in even trying to. You say join together and fight? There's as much chance of us all moving to low/null like CCP wants to try and force us to do, ie none. I think it is a bit more complicated than that - but yes that is a large part of it I suppose.
However, as for the rest, allow me to sum up my own feelings, and I believe those of most PvP oriented players both in and out of high-sec, not limited to but certainly including the large "merc" corps you are speaking of:
Whether you choose to use them or not, you have all the tools at your disposal to turn the tables on them any time you like.
We know you won't - but that is your *choice*
So don't expect any sympathy from me, let alone from anybody in the major wardeccing groups. If you *choose* to simply be sheep to be slaughtered/harvested, then you will be treated as such. |
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Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
494
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Posted - 2016.07.31 09:02:48 -
[231] - Quote
I'm not after sympathy, I'm affected very little by them. It was just an observation and opinion that's all. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
55920
|
Posted - 2016.08.06 02:02:15 -
[232] - Quote
Dirty Forum Alt wrote: Every single corp I can see does 1 of 3 things now when they get wardecced:
1) Drop Corp/Quit EVE for a week. Sometimes both. 2) Immediately ask how much it costs to surrender?!? 3) Hire one of the hub camping corps to literally do nothing other than add another war they won't do anything with - then do #1
So...What happened?!? What was the straw that finally broke the back of all Carebears everywhere?
New players have more isk thrown at them than they know what to do with - and half of them buy plex/sp as well (I've seen the faction fit battleships running L1-3 missions to prove it) - but they can't afford a few cheap suicide ships anymore? They've decided that whining/crying is more fun than going out and trying to get a kill?
Corps with all the resources at their disposal to, if not WIN their wars, at least make a good showing of themselves and win the isk war - instead choose to just roll over and DIE because "PvP is scary" or "its a TRAP".....
Malakye Appleton wrote:While people may have more ISK than in the past, there are also a lot of bigger and more expensive ships/fits used thus cause for more losses in less time and while a cheap frigate thrown at the BS's in a war sounds like fun, most know its just a waste and giving the Wardeccers something to add to their killboard at their loss. This brings in another issue in that Killboards are such a thing now (maybe they always were?) but when a corp is wardecced, their hope is to give no kills to the aggresing corp so as to show "no profit here, move on" and not have the dec extended, not only that, but showing corp losses in a dec will just attract other merc corps to follow suit for their share and since there is no limit on the number of dec a corp can initiate, the afore mentioned concerns are valid and in some ways game breaking for those trying to work their way up in the galaxy.
This pretty much answers Dirty Forum Alt's question except for a couple other points that I'll add :
Many players in High Sec join this game to do PvE content and don't want to engage in PvP content.
Game mechanics have been changed so much that it creates a no win situation for small Corps to engage in WarDec.
If player Corps want WarDec content, then should go where it's available and do it with Low / Null Sec / W-Hole Corps.
Bottom line : Dirty Forum Alt constantly throws the term 'Carebear' around in these forums quite a bit, trying to insult and demean players in High Sec who don't want to do PvP content yet Dirty Forum Alt is probably the biggest damn Carebear of all. Instead of going to where there's definitely PvP content available, Dirty Forum Alt insists on staying in High Sec wanting to WarDec small Industrial Corps.
Dirty Forum Alt wrote:Who killed casual PvP - and is there any way to bring it back?
In answer to that question : CCP killed casual PvP. They added new game mechanics and changed existing game mechanics as well as created and added various items to the game that not only caters to griefers, but also enhances their gameplay activities.
For example the Dueling game mechanic - CCP could have easily programmed it to be like it was in real life, strictly 1v1 with no outside interference. Also after a weapon of choice was selected, the combatants couldn't change it in the middle of the Duel nor could they run and hide (ship change / station dock).
Anyway, there is no way to bring back casual PvP, not with the mind set CCP currently has. The dye is cast. And people wonder why the player base log in numbers are getting smaller all the time.
DMC
'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
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Dirty Forum Alt
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
437
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Posted - 2016.08.06 02:46:25 -
[233] - Quote
For the record - as I said in my very first post I *did* live in low/null sec for a good solid 3-4 years straight - and I've dabbled in both since then.
There is no casual PvP there either - unless you are satisfied with locking yourself into the lifestyle of a -10 pirate in FW space....and even then it isn't exactly casual content once you have to deal with the logistics of resupplying yourself at -10...
Try to solo anywhere else in low or null, and you will either find nothing - or you will get hot-dropped. Can it be done solo? Yes it can. Can it be done by a solo *casual* player who doesn't want to invest a ton of time/energy/isk into it? No, it can not.
I have also explained several times that I do not use the term carebear in a derogatory fashion - I call myself a carebear when I go to do PvE activities...
I *am* rude/insulting fairly often however, I'll give you that one - and no I don't understand nor sympathize with the cowards who refuse to even take basic measures to defend themselves.
And for the record, a t1 frigate can still kill any battleship in the game that is flown by an inferior pilot (and I'm talking about inferior fitting/pilotting skills - sp is irrelevant). I've killed 6+ year old battleship pilots in unaided ventures on multiple occasions. It takes forever, but it works.
A *group* of 10 or so t1 frigates can take down any battleship in the game. Period. The only defense for the battleship against a frigate swarm is smartbombs - and in high sec those are generally fairly suicidal...
You are all so smart, you all "know it is a waste of time" - so you don't try. If you did try you might just be surprised...
But anyway I *was* done arguing this point over and over...Just let the thread die already...yeesh |
Valkin Mordirc
2286
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Posted - 2016.08.06 02:47:05 -
[234] - Quote
Although I agree with Malakye on few points, mainly the risk adverse nature that wardecs have grown into, which I could argue my opinions on it's nature sometime later (IE Don't loose **** or you'll attract attention) I'd like to say a few things. (Wall-o-Text incoming)
One if a corp gets wardecs and fights and enjoys it, what the problem with another wardec? Highsec, is no different then any other part of EVE if you can afford to defend your ****, somebody will come by and blow it up. EVE has always had that way. I can never understand why some people feel that Highsec should be treated differently. Where you have to have a good fleet to defend your POCO's/POS'es/Citadels in any other space but Highsec.
When most people whine about a wardec, it's mainly because they put themselves in situation that let a bigger badder guy come in and knock his sand castle over. Whether that sand castle is a Battleship, a Citadel or sov, what have you. The main whine that I see if people wanting to play EVE as a Single player/Co-op game and not respecting the fact that its an MMO where other people can come in blow you up, for no reason other than they were bored. This happens all the time in Lowsec, Null and W-space, FEITD gets drop on by SC because SC knows they can always drop more then FEITD. Do you hear them whining and crying about being bullied by SC? Was there a mass outcry because the MBC formed against CFC? Not really. Not like we see with highsec. So Why should Highsec be treated differently?
The growing momentum towards this attitude that Highsec should be more favorable to the Indy players is actually rather annoying because it means that less and less of the niche gameplay of EVE is going away in favor of a more generalized MMO of you can only lose when you want to put yourself in a position to loose, which is infact honestly the current state, but effort involved is more then what people want to put in. More and more EVE is becoming a Generalized MMORPG with PVP elements, rather then a Sandbox PVP Oriented MMORPG.
Highsec players go to Lowsec and Nullsec, I can probably make a semi-educated guess that if Highsec follows it's current trend of this boiled frog pacification, that ideal will slowly leak it's way in the other area's of space. The Majority will ask for more safety, Soon Nullsec will be nothing less than arena CTF. Al 'la Runescape castle wars.
And over all that's the main issue which I feel why most people in EVE shouldn't WANT to have a completely safe Highsec, because that brings in the expectation that more space should be even safer. Why can some other alliance shoot me in my own alliance controlled SOV? We should be able to rent out concord to protect us!
So on and so forth.
What most people seem to sympathize over is the new players. Like the actually new player, Not the 5 year old dude whose hung out in NPC corps his entire time in EVE. Which is a good thing, but the main problem I see is those 5 year old NPC corp carebears. Actual Carebears, those who want nothing to do with the game as an online experience, who want a magic ring of protection to keep the safe from baddies, are not only the first people newbro's generally interact with as they sit in the same corp. But they also ride on the sympathy ways playing the victim with the ignorant newbie.
Carebears, actual Carebears are a cancer to this game. They don't care about the social aspect of the game they want to have a Single-player EVE online and they will yell and scream about how it's unfair they a being bullied and spread they're own ideals to the newbies they surround themselves with in, because in reality it's only people that will accept they idea as fact because they don't know any better.
Which in TURN, is EVE-online as a games fault. Not enough information is given out to newbies. A newbie doesn't understand that joining a player corp in highsec MEANS something. They should understand that it Means I'm ready to step out of the tutorial and entire EVE proper. Highsec shouldn't be Tutorial island. Or a kiddy pool. NPC corp should be a kiddie pool, and Highsec should be the 5 foot middle ground.
Anyways.
Largely EVE isn't dying, but it's changing and the old is leaving because they are tired of the game, they are tired of EVE becoming something that it wasn't when they started. Soon we will have more people screaming for more safety asking for more for less effort the Risk/Reward idea that EVE was founded on will slow give way to a more casual experience. We are at a crossroad with the game I think and it really depends on how well CCP can walk the tightrope before they give up and push what they feel is best for them as a company. The outcome right seems to be they want more profit, and are will to out some of their older fanbase for more newblood.
The only thing that I honestly wonder is it going to be, Sandcastles or Castle Wars by 2017.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Sitting Bull Lakota
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
116
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Posted - 2016.08.14 01:02:01 -
[235] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote: Carebears, actual Carebears are a cancer to this game. They don't care about the social aspect of the game they want to have a Single-player EVE online and they will yell and scream about how it's unfair they a being bullied and spread they're own ideals to the newbies they surround themselves with, because in reality it's only people that will accept they idea as fact because they don't know any better..
I think this speaks to the original question of "Why don't they fight?" by touching on an important point. Maybe many players who don't fight would if they hadn't been corrupted by bad advice in npc corp chats. Those default chat channels appear to have been designed as a forum for salty bears to preach to eachother.
There's nothing wrong with creating your own ranting channel and drawing other players into it. The problem comes from dropping new players into a rant channel by default when they first start the game. This early exposure creates an unnecessary obstacle to enjoying the game for newbros, and removing npc-corp chats might help to lessen this effect. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Devils Rejects 666 The Devil's Warrior Alliance
17404
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Posted - 2016.08.14 03:21:57 -
[236] - Quote
Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:Valkin Mordirc wrote: Carebears, actual Carebears are a cancer to this game. They don't care about the social aspect of the game they want to have a Single-player EVE online and they will yell and scream about how it's unfair they a being bullied and spread they're own ideals to the newbies they surround themselves with, because in reality it's only people that will accept they idea as fact because they don't know any better..
I think this speaks to the original question of "Why don't they fight?" by touching on an important point. Maybe many players who don't fight would if they hadn't been corrupted by bad advice in npc corp chats. Those default chat channels appear to have been designed as a forum for salty bears to preach to eachother. There's nothing wrong with creating your own ranting channel and drawing other players into it. The problem comes from dropping new players into a rant channel by default when they first start the game. This early exposure creates an unnecessary obstacle to enjoying the game for newbros, and removing npc-corp chats might help to lessen this effect. postignto emphasize my appreciation for this comment , im waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to drunk to articulate an appropriate response but ill call you in the morning
=]|[=
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takedoom
The Scope Gallente Federation
88
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Posted - 2016.08.15 01:13:01 -
[237] - Quote
High Sec PvP isn't that fun to begin with, its an environment designed for new players. Eventually you either move on to less restrictions and greater fights or you stagnate.
http://spinthatdamnship.ytmnd.com/
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KadorSun Goddess
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2016.08.15 23:22:07 -
[238] - Quote
Mercs basically killed it???? back in the day my old corp/alliance got decced a few times we came to fight and they just docked even though we had 1 more pilot? Another time we came down in bcers and support frigs vs a few t3 and faction cruisers similar numbers like 10v10 , mercs reshipped into faction bs's and t2 logi lol, most hisec mercs cant fight imo unless they seriously over power the opposition otherwise they dock up which is cowardly. |
Faylee Freir
Facetious Indifference Vendetta Mercenary Group
252
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Posted - 2016.08.15 23:47:49 -
[239] - Quote
KadorSun Goddess wrote:Mercs basically killed it???? back in the day my old corp/alliance got decced a few times we came to fight and they just docked even though we had 1 more pilot? Another time we came down in bcers and support frigs vs a few t3 and faction cruisers similar numbers like 10v10 , mercs reshipped into faction bs's and t2 logi lol, most hisec mercs cant fight imo unless they seriously over power the opposition otherwise they dock up which is cowardly. Why fight fair? I would rather kill you with some underhanded tactic and read about how much it makes you rage and how hisec pvp is dead.
HTFU
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Nina Lowel
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
29
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Posted - 2016.08.16 00:39:21 -
[240] - Quote
edit: multipost |
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