Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Iron Predator
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.06.03 18:57:18 -
[1] - Quote
Today I was watching a video on youtube "Cutting Steel With Spaghetti (Thermic Lance)" and it give me the idea for a new type of electronic warfare utility module that would bring very interesting new game mechanics.
A. this is an area of the game to date has no counter B. Combined with the right ship bonus (Strategic Cruisers) can also be a benefit if a fleet mate used this module on Ally C. new logi role or ship! Kill mails for everyone now :D
Thermic Lance module - What this module will do is add heat to all targets modules over time, this would be further aggravated if target overheats his modules. Thermic Lance would also give a faster rate of cycle to all of the target active modules further increasing heat but would balance out due to the target weapons and repair modules getting a bonus.
Thermic Lance stats:
1. Ship Mass (This would be used as the fuse, would stop smaller ships boning larger ships over a short time) 2. Adds heat damage to all target modules 3. Increased rate of cycle to targets active modules
Kind regards,
Iron
|
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2908
|
Posted - 2016.06.03 19:14:42 -
[2] - Quote
Iron Predator wrote:Today I was watching a video on youtube "Cutting Steel With Spaghetti (Thermic Lance)" and it give me the idea for a new type of electronic warfare utility module that would bring very interesting new game mechanics.
A. this is an area of the game to date has no counter B. Combined with the right ship bonus (Strategic Cruisers) can also be a benefit if a fleet mate used this module on Ally C. new logi role or ship! Kill mails for everyone now :D
Thermic Lance module - What this module will do is add heat to all targets modules over time, this would be further aggravated if target overheats his modules. Thermic Lance would also give a faster rate of cycle to all of the target active modules further increasing heat but would balance out due to the target weapons and repair modules getting a bonus.
Thermic Lance stats:
1. Ship Mass (This would be used as the fuse, would stop smaller ships boning larger ships over a short time) 2. Adds heat damage to all target modules 3. Increased rate of cycle to targets active modules
Kind regards,
Iron
Did you think of what would happen if an entire doctrine was built around that with over a hundred ship pulsing this on target after target burning out every module on the enemy fleet? What if I have 80 cruisers using this on a single target? How much heat is added to each rack? |
Iron Predator
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.06.03 19:51:25 -
[3] - Quote
I hadn't Frostys Virpio good point!
1. the module doesn't have to stack well and can get to a point if too many modules are pointed at the same ship this could reduce the heat to a rate lower than the targets natural overheat rate.. in effect benefit the target with much longer overheat.
2. The rate of cycle should just be a flat bonus i.e if you placed a 100 of the modules on a target you would still only get the one bonus to rate of cycle. Also because its a heat module E=mc2 says heat adds mass, ships further increasing the time it takes to burn out modules.
3. There could also be new skill "heat resilience" to increase the robustness of each type of modules and a subsystem bonus/Rigs for ship mass to... well increase mass for added time.
4. New module that has a one use burst repair to burnt out modules and reactivates them in a fleet within a range. This has a side effect, if another ship within range has this module fitting when this goes off will nullify that module.
Kind regards,
Iron |
darkneko
Black Cat mining Inc.
10
|
Posted - 2016.06.04 01:24:03 -
[4] - Quote
So it's a mod that forces overheat on your target meaning everyone would need nanit paste? |
Julanna Egnald
Del's Industrial Strip Mining
12
|
Posted - 2016.06.04 01:29:50 -
[5] - Quote
Iron Predator wrote:I hadn't Frostys Virpio good point!
1. the module doesn't have to stack well and can get to a point if too many modules are pointed at the same ship this could reduce the heat to a rate lower than the targets natural overheat rate.. in effect benefit the target with much longer overheat.
Now that would be something. Increase heat to reduce heat. I know it's a game and not real science, but that would be like maxxing the thermostat to make it snow inside. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
2750
|
Posted - 2016.06.04 02:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
what area of the game currently has no counter?
Citadel worm hole tax
|
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
1152
|
Posted - 2016.06.04 02:42:26 -
[7] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:what area of the game currently has no counter? I am guessing he means overheating modules. Which is kind of wrong.... and this would not be a counter either. Some kind of remote cooling would be the counter, so long as it stopped the bonus.
So far as I am aware the only thing truly without counter is an active cloak. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
2750
|
Posted - 2016.06.04 02:48:36 -
[8] - Quote
i always thought the counter to heat was heat...
he's heating guns you heat reps/hardeners
Citadel worm hole tax
|
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
1152
|
Posted - 2016.06.04 05:16:53 -
[9] - Quote
I would be more inclined to say heat is balanced by a short window of use. You can just stay away from someone until they burn out. The more you heat, the shorter useful duration it has, and so on.
Either way, what he wants to do isn't really reasonable unless they put in a system where individual systems on ships can be targeted. This is really a way to disable modules without killing the ship. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
2095
|
Posted - 2016.06.04 05:34:48 -
[10] - Quote
If it overheats at a higher rate, then it should get more heat bonus for that short period of time. That way Frosty could overheat her own fleets guns and deliver true wrecking shots with civilian weapons. 'Civilian Blaster hits for 7,548' Sure sure, the civilian blaster is ruined, but it gets that one really good shot.
Keep in mind paste does nothing for a completely burned out module. You need to dock to repair it. That is what makes it over powered.
Conceptually kind of cool to think about, but making it n+1 proof would make it silly.
-1 |
|
Dolorous Tremmens
Lightspeed Enterprises Goonswarm Federation
161
|
Posted - 2016.06.04 06:52:36 -
[11] - Quote
It was in the one line bad idea thread, ages ago.
Get some Eve. Make it yours.
|
Lugh Crow-Slave
2755
|
Posted - 2016.06.04 07:29:26 -
[12] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Conceptually kind of cool to think about, but making it n+1 proof would make it silly.
-1
if only there was some search function that could be used b4 posting so he could see if there were other posts that reached this same conclusion on their first pages.
to be fair i don't think this idea has come up in almost 14 months though
Citadel worm hole tax
|
Ix Method
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
499
|
Posted - 2016.06.04 15:25:10 -
[13] - Quote
Iron Predator wrote:1. the module doesn't have to stack well and can get to a point if too many modules are pointed at the same ship this could reduce the heat to a rate lower than the targets natural overheat rate.. in effect benefit the target with much longer overheat. Although I'd love to be proved wrong this seems like an impossible balance doesn't it? Quite like the idea of toying with overheating but trying to work out how you'd stop this being an I win button in certain circumstances is giving me a headache. And I already have a headache, so that's mean.
Travelling at the speed of love.
|
Iron Predator
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.06.04 16:09:46 -
[14] - Quote
Manly the bonus for this module I'm trying to focus is pro for solo/small gang stuff and neg for blobs, if spread across a larger fleet can cause havoc and maybe edge the fight in favour of the smaller fleet.
We have Cap warfare, we have Disruption warfare as well as ECM warfare which get this.. can permanently lock you down for the duration of the fight.
Why would heat warfare be anymore unbalanced? I know for one it would make a change from fitting neuts all the time in my high slot!
Dolorous Tremmens I read that post you linked Quote:emote overheaters: modules to overheat other players modules such as active hardeners as a way help lessen alpha, make logi moe interesting + new weaponizable mechanic not sure how that apples or are you just saying some else said heat module? I feel the way he wants the module applied to target is very different idea to mine.
He wants the heat module to help lessen alpha, I want the module to force the target module to overheat over time with a bonus to cycle time for target . Not sure if you have been on the end of a Megathrons turret but if you where you apply this module and didn't have the tank you might find you picked the wrong ship to fight. Again Muninn apply this module to that ship it might not work out to well for you.
If balanced and with the right stats this module would fit in rather well!
Kind regards,
Iron |
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2909
|
Posted - 2016.06.05 07:10:24 -
[15] - Quote
Julanna Egnald wrote:Iron Predator wrote:I hadn't Frostys Virpio good point!
1. the module doesn't have to stack well and can get to a point if too many modules are pointed at the same ship this could reduce the heat to a rate lower than the targets natural overheat rate.. in effect benefit the target with much longer overheat.
Now that would be something. Increase heat to reduce heat. I know it's a game and not real science, but that would be like maxxing the thermostat to make it snow inside.
It's a computer program so the temperature value has to have an absolute upper limit upon which it might roll over to it's absolute lower limit. Cranking the heat high enough will totally land you in super cold temperature.
|
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2909
|
Posted - 2016.06.05 07:14:23 -
[16] - Quote
Iron Predator wrote:Manly the bonus for this module I'm trying to focus is pro for solo/small gang stuff and neg for blobs, if spread across a larger fleet can cause havoc and maybe edge the fight in favour of the smaller fleet. We have Cap warfare, we have Disruption warfare as well as ECM warfare which get this.. can permanently lock you down for the duration of the fight. Why would heat warfare(module warfare) be anymore unbalanced? I know for one it would make a change from fitting neuts all the time in my high slot! Dolorous Tremmens I read that post you linked Quote:emote overheaters: modules to overheat other players modules such as active hardeners as a way help lessen alpha, make logi moe interesting + new weaponizable mechanic not sure how that apples or are you just saying someone else said heat module? I feel the way he wants that module applied to target is very different idea to mine. He wants the heat module to help lessen alpha, I want the module to force the target module to overheat over time with a bonus to cycle time for target . Not sure if you have been on the end of a Megathrons turret but if you where you apply this module and didn't have the tank you might find you picked the wrong ship to fight. Again Muninn apply this module to that ship it might not work out to well for you and without doubt not T3 ships that can have up to 50% reduction in module heat damage. If balanced with the right stats this module would fit in rather well! Kind regards, Iron
How the hell is that even supposed to help small gang against large fleet when the large fleet can just carry around a bunch of dudes with this fitted and overheat everything on the small gang's ships into burnout while also having it's other key component since it has more dudes filling spots?
Every single person suggesting an idea about "helping the small gang against fleet" that is proposed should ask himself if it's possible the larger fleet might actually use the exact same tool with their number advantage. If you don;t at least ask yourself this question, your idea is probably utter crap. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
2763
|
Posted - 2016.06.05 07:31:11 -
[17] - Quote
no only that but he wants it to work better when used against smaller ships like the kind you generally find in a small gang and weaker on larger ships you are more likely to see filling out a larger one....
Citadel worm hole tax
|
Iron Predator
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.06.05 11:57:22 -
[18] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Iron Predator wrote:Manly the bonus for this module I'm trying to focus is pro for solo/small gang stuff and neg for blobs, if spread across a larger fleet can cause havoc and maybe edge the fight in favour of the smaller fleet. We have Cap warfare, we have Disruption warfare as well as ECM warfare which get this.. can permanently lock you down for the duration of the fight. Why would heat warfare(module warfare) be anymore unbalanced? I know for one it would make a change from fitting neuts all the time in my high slot! Dolorous Tremmens I read that post you linked Quote:emote overheaters: modules to overheat other players modules such as active hardeners as a way help lessen alpha, make logi moe interesting + new weaponizable mechanic not sure how that apples or are you just saying someone else said heat module? I feel the way he wants that module applied to target is very different idea to mine. He wants the heat module to help lessen alpha, I want the module to force the target module to overheat over time with a bonus to cycle time for target . Not sure if you have been on the end of a Megathrons turret but if you where you apply this module and didn't have the tank you might find you picked the wrong ship to fight. Again Muninn apply this module to that ship it might not work out to well for you and without doubt not T3 ships that can have up to 50% reduction in module heat damage. If balanced with the right stats this module would fit in rather well! Kind regards, Iron How the hell is that even supposed to help small gang against large fleet when the large fleet can just carry around a bunch of dudes with this fitted and overheat everything on the small gang's ships into burnout while also having it's other key component since it has more dudes filling spots? Every single person suggesting an idea about "helping the small gang against fleet" that is proposed should ask himself if it's possible the larger fleet might actually use the exact same tool with their number advantage. If you don;t at least ask yourself this question, your idea is probably utter crap.
Like a 1:1 ratio module to ship... sounds like we have a working formula. They still have to apply it and apply all that heat to the mass of the ship before it effects the modules.
Kind regards,
Iron
|
Lugh Crow-Slave
2767
|
Posted - 2016.06.05 12:00:50 -
[19] - Quote
Wat
Citadel worm hole tax
|
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet Goonswarm Federation
2911
|
Posted - 2016.06.05 13:34:51 -
[20] - Quote
Iron Predator wrote:Quote:How the hell is that even supposed to help small gang against large fleet when the large fleet can just carry around a bunch of dudes with this fitted and overheat everything on the small gang's ships into burnout while also having it's other key component since it has more dudes filling spots? Like a 1:1 ratio module to ship... sounds like we have a working formula, it has to have some sort of effect if used without being abused regardless of fleet sizes allowing FC's to specifically target high priority ships like enemy fleet logi for example. They still have to apply it and apply all that heat to the mass of the ship before it effects the modules. Quote:Did you think of what would happen if an entire doctrine was built around that with over a hundred ship pulsing this on target after target burning out every module on the enemy fleet? What if I have 80 cruisers using this on a single target? How much heat is added to each rack? To put the shoe on the other foot having a repugnant attitude to new ideas will also set you up to dislike it before thinking through on what to say next. For e.g and i quote Quote:proposed should ask himself if it's possible the larger fleet might actually use the exact same tool with their number advantage how does this differ from any other electronic warfare module? It doesn't! In all fairness in the scale with warfare is that, I really can't see why this wouldn't fit in, with ECM being a 10 for OP-ness being the worst of the lot and tracking disruptors at a 4.. with the suggested rules I can see module warfare bring somewhere in the middle of both ranges. Kind regards, Iron
None of the current E-WAR favor the smaller group and your new idea doesn't either. That's the point I want to convey. The reason you propose this idea is to help group who won't be helped by it.
The 1:1 ratio of the module also doesn't mean much because the larger group can bring them as support ship while his 2 mainline component remains untouched. Meanwhile, the small gang would need to have fit including compromise to bring it in the fight because they don't have spots to spare in their fleet resulting in non-optimized fits on the dps or logi. |
|
Ankor Grammaten
Dragonhold Enterprises
10
|
Posted - 2016.06.06 03:32:40 -
[21] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:If it overheats at a higher rate, then it should get more heat bonus for that short period of time. That way Frosty could overheat her own fleets guns and deliver true wrecking shots with civilian weapons. 'Civilian Blaster hits for 7,548' Sure sure, the civilian blaster is ruined, but it gets that one really good shot.
-1
This reminds me of something from the EE Smith "Lensman" series of books. A ship was surrounded by enemies and about to be destroyed. In desperation, the crew overpowered a blaster (or whatever it was called, long time since I read it) and it gave one incredibly powerful blast that destroyed one of the enemy ships, and in the process ruined the blaster. The ship was then destroyed by the other enemies. They worked out what had happened, and developed it as a repeatable weapon by carrying many replacement blasters that could be refitted quickly.
Anyway, I'm thinking this could be a possible new feature, with appropriate safeguards, like limited range, more damage to the ship using it (effectively suicide taking one enemy with you), and some limit on the damage dealt.
Just a thought.
|
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Escalating Entropy
10015
|
Posted - 2016.06.06 04:11:03 -
[22] - Quote
Ankor Grammaten wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:If it overheats at a higher rate, then it should get more heat bonus for that short period of time. That way Frosty could overheat her own fleets guns and deliver true wrecking shots with civilian weapons. 'Civilian Blaster hits for 7,548' Sure sure, the civilian blaster is ruined, but it gets that one really good shot.
-1 This reminds me of something from the EE Smith "Lensman" series of books. A ship was surrounded by enemies and about to be destroyed. In desperation, the crew overpowered a blaster (or whatever it was called, long time since I read it) and it gave one incredibly powerful blast that destroyed one of the enemy ships, and in the process ruined the blaster. The ship was then destroyed by the other enemies. They worked out what had happened, and developed it as a repeatable weapon by carrying many replacement blasters that could be refitted quickly. Anyway, I'm thinking this could be a possible new feature, with appropriate safeguards, like limited range, more damage to the ship using it (effectively suicide taking one enemy with you), and some limit on the damage dealt. Just a thought. Polarized blasters.
How did you Veterans start?
The Mustache and Beard Thread
|
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
12056
|
Posted - 2016.06.06 06:57:49 -
[23] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:what area of the game currently has no counter? I am guessing he means overheating modules. Which is kind of wrong.... and this would not be a counter either. Some kind of remote cooling would be the counter, so long as it stopped the bonus. So far as I am aware the only thing truly without counter is an active cloak. Overheating is a counter in itself. You need more micromanagement skils, fight can go wrong, you can burn modules. If you want to balance it, only modules that are already put in overheat mode, should get additional heat damage from this lance.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
|
Ankor Grammaten
Dragonhold Enterprises
10
|
Posted - 2016.06.06 17:36:16 -
[24] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote: Polarized blasters.
Similar, but not the same.
As I understand them (after a quick google) polarized weapons give a lot of dps at the cost of removing all tank. They are capable of multiple shots.
My suggested weapon is a variant on an existing (say) blaster. It can be used as a normal blaster, but has the option of dealing one very powerful shot at the cost of destroying itself.
My reading about polarized weapons suggests that it could be the weapon of choice for suicide gankers, so it would need to be expensive enough to discourage that use.
Another thought. It could work by directing the entire content of the capacitor into that single shot. To make it interesting, the power of the shot could be linked to the charge in the capacitor. The capacitor would then be empty, and possibly even damaged to some extent. The idea is to leave the ship effectively helpless for a while. I don't want it to be possible to continue to fight with other weapons, at least for a while. The result of using it should be a high probability of death.
Hmmm, as an alternative to a special weapon, it could be a piece of equipment that directed the power pulse through any selected weapon, melting itself in the process, as well as destroying the weapon. |
Darkwing Fiftytwo
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
9
|
Posted - 2016.06.06 19:28:22 -
[25] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Did you think of what would happen if an entire doctrine was built around that with over a hundred ship pulsing this on target after target burning out every module on the enemy fleet? What if I have 80 cruisers using this on a single target? How much heat is added to each rack?
At first this seems like an intelligent question but its not really. If you have 80 hurricanes shooting a ship it pops. If you have 80 webs on a target it stops dead in its tracks. If you have 80 of these on a target guess what happens? Its modules all overheat and melt. No offense intended I am not trying to get into a trolling competition, but come on you knew the answer when you asked.
You could make the module have no effect on non-heated modules, only affect guys who have heat turned on, or the flip side just increase heat of the entire ship, so for a capital it would take a **** ton of these to burn out his modules. The hull mass would have to be incorporated into the equation. |
Saelyth
Umbra Reconnaissance Swamphole
15
|
Posted - 2016.06.07 18:53:47 -
[26] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote: Conceptually kind of cool to think about...
I think you have it backwards on principle. :P |
|
|
|
Pages: [1] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |