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Monstah Khaos
ElevenBravo
12
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Posted - 2016.06.03 23:22:19 -
[1] - Quote
Since last weekend we have now run 77 combat sites (0.7-0.5) .
Of those 77 we saw 4 Dread spawns with faction ammo only Of those 77 we got approximately 6 escalations 5x 4/10 sites and 1x 5/10 site in both low and high sec
All of the 4/10 sites had less than 2mil in loot for both rooms. The faction drops were ammo only. The 5/10 site had 15mil in total loot with the cheapest pithi type c resist. We didn't even get a Tier drop.
We have been running the crap out of these for a while and honestly were raking in about 400-500mil per day off the loot and salvage + bounties. Suddenly this week has seen a waste of time...
I know it is a numbers thing on odds for drops etc. but I would say I won't be going to Vegas any time soon with this kind of luck!!
Any one else notice a crazy drop or did I miss a change in a patch somewhere?
As of right now it is worthless doing the escalations in low sec as the drop value is nowhere near worth losing a halfway fit ship.
?? |
Pandora Carrollon
Kingsman Tailors
336
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Posted - 2016.06.03 23:36:45 -
[2] - Quote
Monstah Khaos wrote:Since last weekend we have now run 77 combat sites (0.7-0.5) .
Of those 77 we saw 4 Dread spawns with faction ammo only Of those 77 we got approximately 6 escalations 5x 4/10 sites and 1x 5/10 site in both low and high sec
All of the 4/10 sites had less than 2mil in loot for both rooms. The faction drops were ammo only. The 5/10 site had 15mil in total loot with the cheapest pithi type c resist. We didn't even get a Tier drop.
We have been running the crap out of these for a while and honestly were raking in about 400-500mil per day off the loot and salvage + bounties. Suddenly this week has seen a waste of time...
I know it is a numbers thing on odds for drops etc. but I would say I won't be going to Vegas any time soon with this kind of luck!!
Any one else notice a crazy drop or did I miss a change in a patch somewhere?
As of right now it is worthless doing the escalations in low sec as the drop value is nowhere near worth losing a halfway fit ship.
??
I was farming for escalations a couple of weeks ago, many times in a row and got nothing. I chalked it up to bad luck. In fact, the spawn rate of HiSec sites is severely depressed or people are knocking them out enmasse. I think I saw a dev blog on spawn adjustments, maybe on drop rate as well.
HiSec is already ISK resource poor, so if they are cutting down revenues even further, I guess the intent is to push everyone out to Lo/Null or make more money of the HiSec players since it's harder to PLEX there. If that's the case, I don't get it because it means that even CCP doesn't understand why players stay in HiSec. They nerf it too much and they risk those players just not playing any more. Ah well, if it is a nerf, then we'll have to deal with it.
Be Positive GÇó Change yourself first, New Eden will come later GÇó EVE is Awesome GÇó CCP isn't the enemy GÇó Players are people too GÇó Where're the clothing blueprints GÇó Yeah, I'm still learning this game
-- Pandora's Rules to EVE by
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Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
543
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Posted - 2016.06.03 23:47:57 -
[3] - Quote
CCP will never say, and many people will give the obligatory Random is Random response, but after tracking all my results for the year I'm convinced CCP rebalances the loot tables periodically.
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Monstah Khaos
ElevenBravo
12
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Posted - 2016.06.04 00:19:45 -
[4] - Quote
Well, no matter what the theory is, I have seen an insane drop in drop rates from these. I understand a string of bad luck because there are plenty of times I go 20-25 sites without anything (dread spawn, escalation, etc.) but 77 (now 79) and then to hit the escalations with nothing is pretty bad.
I am sure things get tweaked here and there, nothing we can do about it. I do know that if the drop rate was a "tweak" (or nerf in this case), that sure takes some of the option of excitement out of hi-sec life and playing the different things other than mining and mission running.
We (corp) have all been on for about 8yrs or so (army vet buddies) and spent most of our time in low-sec and wormholes. We took a long break but were sitting around getting trashed and said "let's fire up the EVE stuff". A LOT has changed in 2-3yrs. Some good, some bad... The game sure is easier to grind than the older days. We decided to stay in hi-sec for a while since most of us are oil field workers and techs. Not really enough time to run a low-sec operation. |
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
774
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Posted - 2016.06.04 04:09:17 -
[5] - Quote
Shiloh Templeton wrote:CCP will never say, and many people will give the obligatory Random is Random response, but after tracking all my results for the year I'm convinced CCP rebalances the loot tables periodically.
Guaranteed, they have to.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14167
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Posted - 2016.06.04 07:29:29 -
[6] - Quote
The human brain can't deal with true randomness. All the proof you need is to watch these forums every week for the newest "did something change, I'm getting less loot!?!?" Thread lol. I've seen a version of this same thread every week for my whole nine years here. Hell, back in the day I was the author of one or two of them.
There is no conspiracy, no behind the scenes manipulation, no unannounced change aimed at forcing anyone to play different. What does exist is the fact that we chose to engage with game content that offers random rewards.
Notice how you only see these threads when the results are negative. No one posts when they get improbable drops or back to back to back escalations.
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Erebus Vain
State War Academy Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2016.06.04 08:07:24 -
[7] - Quote
Shiloh Templeton wrote:CCP will never say, and many people will give the obligatory Random is Random response, but after tracking all my results for the year I'm convinced CCP rebalances the loot tables periodically.
Stops people from being able to farm at a known rate i suppose, as well as pushing players into finding better sites or maybe into other areas of the game. |
Shayla Etherodyne
Delta Laroth Industries Voxis Accord
78
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Posted - 2016.06.04 08:35:10 -
[8] - Quote
There was an announced rebalance of some exploration site with citadels. Probably they are still tweaking them.
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Hawke Frost
180
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Posted - 2016.06.04 10:08:26 -
[9] - Quote
I've been making 200-400 mil/day without issues in the last few weeks (not every day as I couldn't be bothered to do it), with a Jackdaw (for now) in high sec. Other than some changes a while back I've not noticed any recent issues, but note that for some reason there seems to be a period of "rng not being so rng" going on at times.
I don't generally get too many, if at all, ship BPC but then all of a sudden in one week I end up with 5+. Weeks can go by till I get an escalation at all and then for a short period of time I get swamped in them. Still, I've never really had the "holy ****, I might as well start mining" problems. |
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
12247
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Posted - 2016.06.04 10:26:37 -
[10] - Quote
Shiloh Templeton wrote:CCP will never say, and many people will give the obligatory Random is Random response, but after tracking all my results for the year I'm convinced CCP rebalances the loot tables periodically.
RNR is R
Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .
Bumble's Space Log
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2625
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Posted - 2016.06.04 10:38:04 -
[11] - Quote
I've been doing incredibly well. Haven't seen an OPE-only drop in weeks. Luck of the draw. |
Monstah Khaos
ElevenBravo
12
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Posted - 2016.06.04 10:44:35 -
[12] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:The human brain can't deal with true randomness. All the proof you need is to watch these forums every week for the newest "did something change, I'm getting less loot!?!?" Thread lol. I've seen a version of this same thread every week for my whole nine years here. Hell, back in the day I was the author of one or two of them.
There is no conspiracy, no behind the scenes manipulation, no unannounced change aimed at forcing anyone to play different. What does exist is the fact that we chose to engage with game content that offers random rewards.
Notice how you only see these threads when the results are negative. No one posts when they get improbable drops or back to back to back escalations.
No way in hell I would post a positive "dude I am killin' it out here" thread.... Locator agents get rich off the forums |
March rabbit
Mosquito Squadron The-Culture
1799
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Posted - 2016.06.04 11:55:55 -
[13] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:The human brain can't deal with true randomness. All the proof you need is to watch these forums every week for the newest "did something change, I'm getting less loot!?!?" Thread lol. I've seen a version of this same thread every week for my whole nine years here. Hell, back in the day I was the author of one or two of them.
There is no conspiracy, no behind the scenes manipulation, no unannounced change aimed at forcing anyone to play different. What does exist is the fact that we chose to engage with game content that offers random rewards.
Notice how you only see these threads when the results are negative. No one posts when they get improbable drops or back to back to back escalations.
You look like having great expertise in EVE Online code. Any sources?
The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
545
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Posted - 2016.06.04 17:50:05 -
[14] - Quote
Erebus Vain wrote:Stops people from being able to farm at a known rate i suppose, as well as pushing players into finding better sites or maybe into other areas of the game. I wouldn't have a problem with CCP making intelligent decisions about changing the drop %'s on a regular basis. It could help keep a 'balanced' supply of loot so items don't become oversupplied. It would make sense to vary chances by region or time zone to keep a few players from getting in a routine and monopolizing sites.
It would be a bit dastardly, but it wouldn't be that hard to program it so a players chances change based on the accumulated exploration wealth every 22 days. Or based on character age so newbros could make a decent income from Hi-sec data and relic sites.
But we'll never know without open source code.
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Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
774
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Posted - 2016.06.04 18:26:31 -
[15] - Quote
Jenn I disagree heartily with your last post, Shilohs is much closer to reality.
Rebalancing loot tables periodically behind the scenes is a necessary function to create balance within an economic level based on what CCP wants for their gaming world. This is a standard gaming and MMO reality. You want the price of something to fall in relation you drop more, you want prices to rise you will cut back supply. You can tweak through a myriad of ways. Introducing new ways to harvest items or simply changing the existing ways. They have an entire team dedicated to balancing the economy in relation to game play changes and it simply makes sense that such metrics are not only tracked but updated periodically for a variety of reasons.
Its not nefarious or underhanded, far from it, its just normal behind the scenes balancing. Sometimes they will tell us, like the T1 loot drop nerf, or new items like the sleeper and mordus stuff. Often they wont, I know if I was them I wouldnt. Or else you get the officer dt spawn races that just get farmed by the few.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
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Negasonic Teenage Warhead
State War Academy Caldari State
35
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Posted - 2016.06.04 19:24:29 -
[16] - Quote
NO
RNG is still R. |
Cranial Rectidus
ElevenBravo
47
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Posted - 2016.06.04 22:30:26 -
[17] - Quote
Make that 90 sites now I have run with Monst. Just spent 2 hours chasing escalation story that led us a good 22 jumps from home by the end. Total loot value = 9,500,000 isk. The Dreads at each site along the story dropped faction ammo and an explosive pithi shield worth about 1.5mil. Nearly ganked in hi-sec on the way back in a 70mil isk Noctis lol.
We have decided that L4 mission running is back on top of the list for a while after this 90 site run all week. Even the data and relic sites have been very poor turn outs. Looks like some runs to nullsec and wormholes for that end of it as well.
In the meantime we have some kill rights to go have hi-sec fun with |
ube smoked
State War Academy Caldari State
2
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Posted - 2016.06.04 22:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
Yes. You are not the first one to mention this btw. Escalations happens extremely rarely now and dreads are dropping crap. |
Monstah Khaos
ElevenBravo
12
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Posted - 2016.06.04 23:13:42 -
[19] - Quote
Yes we agree that the bad luck factor has been modified by something else. |
Coralas
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2016.06.05 01:57:43 -
[20] - Quote
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:Jenn I disagree heartily with your last post, Shilohs is much closer to reality.
Rebalancing loot tables periodically behind the scenes is a necessary function to create balance within an economic level based on what CCP wants for their gaming world. This is a standard gaming and MMO reality. You want the price of something to fall in relation you drop more, you want prices to rise you will cut back supply. You can tweak through a myriad of ways. Introducing new ways to harvest items or simply changing the existing ways. They have an entire team dedicated to balancing the economy in relation to game play changes and it simply makes sense that such metrics are not only tracked but updated periodically for a variety of reasons.
Its not nefarious or underhanded, far from it, its just normal behind the scenes balancing. Sometimes they will tell us, like the T1 loot drop nerf, or new items like the sleeper and mordus stuff. Often they wont, I know if I was them I wouldnt. Or else you get the officer dt spawn races that just get farmed by the few.
They really don't touch it very often though, imo the prices of most deadspace items are inline with my longterm expectations about the rates they dropped at 2 or 3 years ago.
As a point of interest, I looked up my old spreadsheets from living in vale a couple of years ago on my other account. I ran 1144 anomolies to completion, for 29 escalations (~1 in 39) and a mere 18 commanders. The longest streak recorded was for rally points of 216 rally points in a row _without_ an escalation.
In the same time, in the system I lived in (and the odd ninja from nearby unused systems), I managed to complete 15 ded 6s, 34 ded 8s, 17 ded 7s and 7 ded 10s that were direct spawn ups. ie gun-probing wasn't as effective as probing you just get paid for the probing time.
From memory ( I don't have records for that period), highsec dens have always had an unusually high rate of commander spawns and escalations, but even so, the longest run of no escalation was still in the region of 160 - when the RNG decides its your turn to get nothing, it really is your turn to get nothing. |
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3867
|
Posted - 2016.06.05 02:54:28 -
[21] - Quote
Bumblefck wrote:Shiloh Templeton wrote:CCP will never say, and many people will give the obligatory Random is Random response, but after tracking all my results for the year I'm convinced CCP rebalances the loot tables periodically.
RNG is R
As I said in another thread, it's not. It is a programmed algorithm with totally deterministic results. It is supposed to look random. But if CCP somehow made a programming error, then we could get very non-random results.
Example: Once no Arkonor was spawning. Some said "RNG is R". But what had happened was CCP mis-spelled "Arkonor" in the roid generation table.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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Davian Thule Pirkibo
Absolute Massive Destruction Test Alliance Please Ignore
71
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Posted - 2016.06.05 12:47:41 -
[22] - Quote
Pandora Carrollon wrote:Monstah Khaos wrote:Since last weekend we have now run 77 combat sites (0.7-0.5) .
Of those 77 we saw 4 Dread spawns with faction ammo only Of those 77 we got approximately 6 escalations 5x 4/10 sites and 1x 5/10 site in both low and high sec
All of the 4/10 sites had less than 2mil in loot for both rooms. The faction drops were ammo only. The 5/10 site had 15mil in total loot with the cheapest pithi type c resist. We didn't even get a Tier drop.
We have been running the crap out of these for a while and honestly were raking in about 400-500mil per day off the loot and salvage + bounties. Suddenly this week has seen a waste of time...
I know it is a numbers thing on odds for drops etc. but I would say I won't be going to Vegas any time soon with this kind of luck!!
Any one else notice a crazy drop or did I miss a change in a patch somewhere?
As of right now it is worthless doing the escalations in low sec as the drop value is nowhere near worth losing a halfway fit ship.
?? I was farming for escalations a couple of weeks ago, many times in a row and got nothing. I chalked it up to bad luck. In fact, the spawn rate of HiSec sites is severely depressed or people are knocking them out enmasse. I think I saw a dev blog on spawn adjustments, maybe on drop rate as well. HiSec is already ISK resource poor, so if they are cutting down revenues even further, I guess the intent is to push everyone out to Lo/Null or make more money of the HiSec players since it's harder to PLEX there. If that's the case, I don't get it because it means that even CCP doesn't understand why players stay in HiSec. They nerf it too much and they risk those players just not playing any more. Ah well, if it is a nerf, then we'll have to deal with it.
Why do people stay in highsec? This game is risk reward and you are meant to eventually ascend to pursue riskier things. This is not a care bear theme park. Ccp has finnaly made it so that for most types of income nullsec is worth it. The only thing now that is still to be done is nerfing/getting rid of highsec incursions.
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Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
3867
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Posted - 2016.06.05 13:13:56 -
[23] - Quote
The entire "risk vs reward" argument has always bothered me. When someone cries over a gank loss, the gankers like to say " Its just meaningless space pixels and imaginary space money". OK, Lets take them at their word. Its all meaningless space pixels and imaginary space money. Losing or gaining something that is meaningless is neither risk or reward.
Where IS the risk and reward in Eve? It has to be in the real world. The risk is $15 a month you spend on the subscription (or the time you spend to grind for a PLEX). The reward is having fun. Given that, the reward for play in high sec should be the same as any other part of space.
CCP: you should not be making changes to any part of space that makes it less fun for those players who prefer to play there.
Know a Frozen fan? Check this out
Frozen fanfiction
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Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners Test Alliance Please Ignore
14168
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Posted - 2016.06.05 18:53:18 -
[24] - Quote
Copy and paste is a wonderful thing so I don't have to re-type this. But this very same discussion is going on in missions and complexes lol.
Quote:March rabbit wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Probably a bad time to mention that last night... What is funny is that almost every time someone mentions bad drop you 'recently' got good one The was just this week, What's even funnier is that last week I had the single most improbable situation I've yet had in EVE,, more improbable than the 2 officer spawns I've had so far (one 4 years ago, the other 2 years ago). Running havens, the 1st one spawned a DG battleship that dropped a DG web. The very next haven spawned a BG battleship that dropped a DG drone damage amp and THEN escalated to a 10/10 MAZE. And the MAZE dropped a Rattlesnake BPC. The odds of that chain of events must be astronomically low, and yet it happened. But what also happened was the 34 havens in a row I've done in the same space in last month the spawned noting but couple of guristas dread and a few 'ammo and tag' DG battleships. I've been doing this long enough to understand that that just happens, and that there is no big CCP conspiracy at play. It's a simple random number generator at work.
The real funny thing is that I also just had this same discussion with my wife and our friends in real life. There are no real casinos in my state so everyone just hops the border to either Louisiana or Oklahoma, we go to Winstar in Thackervil , OK once or twice a month as a fun getaway (not major gamblers, we screw around on the penny machines, play a little poker, eat at the buffet and come home lol). My wife and I have gotten to know a bunch of 'regulars' from our area that go up there.
And you hear the same thing in that casino for the last 5 years that I've heard n this forum for 9 years now. "My system always delivers, the 'powers that be' must not like me winning so much". "Something must have changed, that machine always pays out for me, but not this time". "My luck can't be this bad, there HAS to be something up, these results are contrary to the law of averages!". I heard all three of those utterances last week.
And just like in the discussion I quoted above with March Rabbit it seems like every time I hear something like that, I win something (and no I don't think that it more than just coincidence lol). I said screw it and played on one of those hideous 5 dollar machines they have on a fluke and won Three thousand dollars 5 minutes after one of my casino buddies claimed something was wrong lol.
I found him later at one of the bars and said "this is probably a bad time to mention this......" |
Violet Hurst
Fedaya Recon
82
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Posted - 2016.06.05 21:31:16 -
[25] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:Bumblefck wrote:Shiloh Templeton wrote:CCP will never say, and many people will give the obligatory Random is Random response, but after tracking all my results for the year I'm convinced CCP rebalances the loot tables periodically.
RNG is R As I said in another thread, it's not. It is a programmed algorithm with totally deterministic results. It is supposed to look random. But if CCP somehow made a programming error, then we could get very non-random results. Example: Once no Arkonor was spawning. Some said "RNG is R". But what had happened was CCP mis-spelled "Arkonor" in the roid generation table.
NPC loot tables with their drop chances are the last thing any game developer will ever publish. Even if everything else is made transparent, they remain the last set screw if the developers need to change things without causing an overreaction by the playerbase. Randomness is also something that can not be proven, so your argument is pretty much on the safe side there.
When you play the determinism of common random number generating functions against the forced pattern recognition of the human brain that Jenn aSide mentioned though, you are comparing things that differ in scale. Tremendously. There are also "true" random number generators available, e.g. from https://www.random.org/. And for all we know CCP might be using one of those.
Let me close by saying that I'm generally a huge fan of determinism. Things we currently regard as random might after all become computable at some point. But for one at the moment e.g. 96% of all gravity in the universe is unaccounted for, so there's still a lot of room for randomness. (This sentence is just meant to illustrate the scale.) And even if we were in theory able to compute the universe, we'd need a memory cell to store the state of each and every particle, for which there just aren't enough particles avilable. (The machine would have to be bigger than the universe itself. This is contradictory.)
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
12056
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Posted - 2016.06.06 06:11:46 -
[26] - Quote
I dont see how the loot is different now than for example in winter.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Henry Plantgenet
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
76
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Posted - 2016.06.06 09:28:47 -
[27] - Quote
there was an escalation buff in 2014. Probably CCP realising that certain escalations became a bit too powerful and tweaked it down again (still get the escalation but crap loot! :D)
https://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/all-that-is-gold-does-not-glitter-data-sites-expeditions-and-more/
how time flies... |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
12060
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Posted - 2016.06.06 09:34:43 -
[28] - Quote
I have been running escalations yesterday, Loot was good. Give your lootfairy some occasion to show her skills and maybe run more of them, dank escalations? But then again, results of her job are not guaranteed, remember.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
12060
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Posted - 2016.06.06 09:38:36 -
[29] - Quote
Violet Hurst wrote: (The machine would have to be bigger than the universe itself. This is contradictory.)
What about fractals? They are small, and can generate on flow, infinitely. Not much memory is needed, but you need something to display the results of inner workings. Take for example original Elite by Braben.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Staine Codekiller
State War Academy Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2016.06.06 09:50:22 -
[30] - Quote
Just ran a string of combat sites with absolute crap. Friend jumped over to Gallente space and made 700,000,000 in 4 hours with a bunch of Gila BP and Mid-Grade Crystals. I got more Dread light missiles than I know what to do with. Just did 2 greater sleeper sites complete for a whopping 5 million ISK.
The odds are always against you. I can't wait for my buddy to get back to I can gank him. |
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