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Marcus Ulpius Trajanus
Hades Innovations
1
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Posted - 2016.06.06 06:15:51 -
[1] - Quote
When you buy items now you have no real way to know who produced it even if you look at your wallet history and see who you bought it from. What if all player made products had a way for us to identify who produced it? This way different alliances can tax imports from different producers and prop up local production with favorable taxes. It can also allow for more interesting "market pvp." It can also stand to give producers a bit of pride seeing how they corner a particular market.
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Iain Cariaba
3074
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Posted - 2016.06.06 06:45:02 -
[2] - Quote
Go learn how the database works, then you'll understand why your idea is not possible.
Also, reported for redundancy.
Edit: Here's a hint. In order to form stacks of items, each of those items in the stack must be identical in every way.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
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darkneko
Black Cat mining Inc. Khione's Dominion
11
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Posted - 2016.06.06 06:56:09 -
[3] - Quote
Why would anyone who makes something want other people knowing about it considering indy people are big targets. |
Marcus Ulpius Trajanus
Hades Innovations
1
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Posted - 2016.06.06 07:21:41 -
[4] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Go learn how the database works, then you'll understand why your idea is not possible.
Also, reported for redundancy.
Edit: Here's a hint. In order to form stacks of items, each of those items in the stack must be identical in every way.
Well since you seem to know everything why don't you tell me? Also anyone that has to scream "REPORTED" like some child should probably refrain from giving their opinion like it could ever be educated. In any case I already edited the other post to be deleted.
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
12060
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Posted - 2016.06.06 07:38:59 -
[5] - Quote
But it cant work unless you make every item similar to how blueprints are treated. But then probably CCP would have to remove it from market and push into contracts.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Do Little
Virgin Plc Evictus.
293
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Posted - 2016.06.06 08:11:38 -
[6] - Quote
If every module in the game could have unique attributes you add a lot of complexity and you need to offer some benefit to justify that complexity. What value do we get from being able to brand modules given that we would no longer be able to stack them because they are no longer identical?
Present a well thought out business case and the idea may have some traction - personally I would love to be able to invent and produce something unique in the game but I haven't come up with a scenario where the benefit outweighs the cost! |
Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
12060
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Posted - 2016.06.06 08:56:58 -
[7] - Quote
Do Little wrote:If every module in the game could have unique attributes you add a lot of complexity and you need to offer some benefit to justify that complexity. What value do we get from being able to brand modules given that we would no longer be able to stack them because they are no longer identical?
Present a well thought out business case and the idea may have some traction - personally I would love to be able to invent and produce something unique in the game but I haven't come up with a scenario where the benefit outweighs the cost!
Like named officer modules created by player or AI, balanced for combat? Like in Elite Dangerous?
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Lugh Crow-Slave
2769
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Posted - 2016.06.06 09:38:27 -
[8] - Quote
Marcus Ulpius Trajanus wrote: Well since you seem to know everything why don't you tell me? Also anyone that has to scream "REPORTED" like some child should probably refrain from giving their opinion like it could ever be educated. In any case I already edited the other post to be deleted.
anyone who can't be bothered to take five minutes to do a quick search and see if this idea had come up and got shot down before should refrain from posting like their ideas have some how never been thought of before
Citadel worm hole tax
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Nana Skalski
Poseidaon
12077
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Posted - 2016.06.06 15:23:11 -
[9] - Quote
Well, if the items would be only on contracts and beside name there would be other properties and everyone would be treated individually, than this idea have some merit.
But the issue is to balance the generation of that item properly.
With only name on the item, its not worth doing.
I give you ( -á° -ƒ-û -í°)/ Boarding bays Gÿá
Every part of a game helps to tell a story. =ƒôò
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Sitting Bull Lakota
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
77
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Posted - 2016.06.06 16:27:10 -
[10] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Marcus Ulpius Trajanus wrote: Well since you seem to know everything why don't you tell me? Also anyone that has to scream "REPORTED" like some child should probably refrain from giving their opinion like it could ever be educated. In any case I already edited the other post to be deleted.
anyone who can't be bothered to take five minutes to do a quick search and see if this idea had come up and got shot down before should refrain from posting like their ideas have some how never been thought of before It didn't look like there was a similar thread in the first few pages. You'll forgive us outsiders if we don't fully grasp the social norms of this forum you call home. We are merely visitors from the game. Tourists, if you like. We mean no disrespect.
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Iain Cariaba
3074
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Posted - 2016.06.06 16:55:34 -
[11] - Quote
Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Marcus Ulpius Trajanus wrote: Well since you seem to know everything why don't you tell me? Also anyone that has to scream "REPORTED" like some child should probably refrain from giving their opinion like it could ever be educated. In any case I already edited the other post to be deleted.
anyone who can't be bothered to take five minutes to do a quick search and see if this idea had come up and got shot down before should refrain from posting like their ideas have some how never been thought of before It didn't look like there was a similar thread in the first few pages. You'll forgive us outsiders if we don't fully grasp the social norms of this forum you call home. We are merely visitors from the game. Tourists, if you like. We mean no disrespect. Upper right corner of the window is a box with the words "Search forums" and a magnifying glass. Want to take a guess on what this feature of the forums is used for?
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
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Marcus Ulpius Trajanus
Hades Innovations
1
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Posted - 2016.06.06 17:39:40 -
[12] - Quote
Do Little wrote:If every module in the game could have unique attributes you add a lot of complexity and you need to offer some benefit to justify that complexity. What value do we get from being able to brand modules given that we would no longer be able to stack them because they are no longer identical?
Present a well thought out business case and the idea may have some traction - personally I would love to be able to invent and produce something unique in the game but I haven't come up with a scenario where the benefit outweighs the cost!
The items are unique with the exception of a small tag somewhere when you look at info that says "made by so and so."
And again it does add benefit. You can block or tax particular products made from a certain group. You can find out who is producing what in a certain area and act accordingly. Can you imagine now if you went to the store and you had no idea where anything was produced and by who?
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Marcus Ulpius Trajanus wrote: Well since you seem to know everything why don't you tell me? Also anyone that has to scream "REPORTED" like some child should probably refrain from giving their opinion like it could ever be educated. In any case I already edited the other post to be deleted.
anyone who can't be bothered to take five minutes to do a quick search and see if this idea had come up and got shot down before should refrain from posting like their ideas have some how never been thought of before
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=search&search=Maker%27s%20Emblem%20on%20all%20Products&forumID=270
Hmmm I guess shhh?
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4466
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Posted - 2016.06.06 17:51:07 -
[13] - Quote
Marcus Ulpius Trajanus wrote:Can you imagine now if you went to the store and you had no idea where anything was produced and by who?
This is literally what happens when anyone walks into a shop and picks something up off of the shelf.
Now, the database.
Let's say you have a thousand people making rifters. Currently, a rifter I make and a rifter you make, and any of the other rifter producers, is identical. A stack of a thousand is one database entry.
Now, if those thousand rifter producers all put a makers mark on them, you can no-longer have a stack of a thousand identical rifters being one database entry. Your thousand rifters are now each a unique database object, increasing the amount of data by a thousand times.
Needless database bloat is bad.
Furthermore: How do you identify an item's tag from the market screen? If I search rifter, will I get to see a thousand different market entries for the things? And what does the market seller have to do with the producer? Are you aware of the concepts of a buy order, a freighter run, or an alt? |
Iain Cariaba
3075
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Posted - 2016.06.06 17:59:44 -
[14] - Quote
Marcus Ulpius Trajanus wrote:https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=search&search=Maker%27s%20Emblem%20on%20all%20Products&forumID=270
Hmmm I guess shhh? Oh, look. You searched the exact title you made, and got no responses.
However, if you use "manufacturer" as a synonym for "maker", and just search that one word, you get a nearly identical thread on page 2 of the search.
EvE is hard. It's harder if you're stupid.
I couldn't have said it better.
Hello, Mr Carebear. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
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Marcus Ulpius Trajanus
Hades Innovations
1
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Posted - 2016.06.06 20:49:29 -
[15] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:Marcus Ulpius Trajanus wrote:Can you imagine now if you went to the store and you had no idea where anything was produced and by who? This is literally what happens when anyone walks into a shop and picks something up off of the shelf. Now, the database. Let's say you have a thousand people making rifters. Currently, a rifter I make and a rifter you make, and any of the other rifter producers, is identical. A stack of a thousand is one database entry. Now, if those thousand rifter producers all put a makers mark on them, you can no-longer have a stack of a thousand identical rifters being one database entry. Your thousand rifters are now each a unique database object, increasing the amount of data by a thousand times. Needless database bloat is bad. Furthermore: How do you identify an item's tag from the market screen? If I search rifter, will I get to see a thousand different market entries for the things? And what does the market seller have to do with the producer? Are you aware of the concepts of a buy order, a freighter run, or an alt?
This it not "literally what happens" because you can look at an item and it says "made in China" and who the company is.
As for the rest...yes of course you're going to need to program some things to make it work. But that shouldn't be a deterrent from making a good change.
Iain Cariaba wrote:Marcus Ulpius Trajanus wrote:https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=search&search=Maker%27s%20Emblem%20on%20all%20Products&forumID=270
Hmmm I guess shhh? Oh, look. You searched the exact title you made, and got no responses. However, if you use "manufacturer" as a synonym for "maker", and just search that one word, you get a nearly identical thread on page 2 of the search.
Well good job. Clearly you spend enough time here for both of us. But as you can clearly see the topic is no longer active so you can calm down and try to have a good discussion. If you are incapable might I suggest you spend your time doing something else.
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Frostys Virpio
Yet another corpdot.
2912
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Posted - 2016.06.06 22:11:57 -
[16] - Quote
Marcus Ulpius Trajanus wrote:
As for the rest...yes of course you're going to need to program some things to make it work. But that shouldn't be a deterrent from making a good change.
Except it is not a good change because it would cause a large amount of database bloat for next to no gain for the game as people won;t care who made their missiles/ammo/hulls/whatever. Ammo made by my worst enemy does damage just as well as the ammo I produce. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Escalating Entropy
10019
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Posted - 2016.06.06 22:13:08 -
[17] - Quote
Quote:This it not "literally what happens" because you can look at an item and it says "made in China" and who the company is. I can't remember the last time I, or any of my friends, actually cared about company names or product orgin.
Is it bread? Yes. Is it made of stuff I want to eat? Yes. Is it cheap? Yes. Buy it.
Frankly, labels and product orgin are a buch of horseshit these days as the supply chains for various products share similar orgins... but are so obfuscated that it is almost impossible to truly determine it. And by that time, the general populace has gotten bored and moved on.
Quote:As for the rest...yes of course you're going to need to program some things to make it work. But that shouldn't be a deterrent from making a good change. What is "good" about it?
A "good industrialist" doesn't want their name out there. Name recognition makes you a target. Moreover, all items are the same and alt chracters are a thing (embargo me? Pah, my alt does all my buying, building a shipping).
Besides vanity, I don't see a compelling gameplay reason to create database bloat.
How did you Veterans start?
The Mustache and Beard Thread
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Frostys Virpio
Yet another corpdot.
2912
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Posted - 2016.06.06 22:17:50 -
[18] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Quote:This it not "literally what happens" because you can look at an item and it says "made in China" and who the company is. I can't remember the last time I, or any of my friends, actually cared about company names or product orgin. Is it bread? Yes. Is it made of stuff I want to eat? Yes. Is it cheap? Yes. Buy it. Frankly, labels and product orgin are a buch of horseshit these days as the supply chains for various products share similar orgins... but are so obfuscated that it is almost impossible to truly determine it. And by that time, the general populace has gotten bored and moved on. Quote:As for the rest...yes of course you're going to need to program some things to make it work. But that shouldn't be a deterrent from making a good change. What is "good" about it? A "good industrialist" doesn't want their name out there. Name recognition makes you a target. Moreover, all items are the same and alt chracters are a thing (embargo me? Pah, my alt does all my buying, building a shipping). Besides vanity, I don't see a compelling gameplay reason to create database bloat.
Well far away from major hubs, you could corner a market with taxes and force the people who play with you to overpay if they don't have the logistic means to import... |
Paranoid Loyd
9107
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Posted - 2016.06.06 22:21:47 -
[19] - Quote
Marcus Ulpius Trajanus wrote:As for the rest...yes of course you're going to need to program some things to make it work. But that shouldn't be a deterrent from making a good change. First off, you seem to be the only one who thinks it will be a good change. Second, as much as you are trying to write it off, yes this is a rather large deterrent. The smoothness or lack thereof of the UI depends on the DB being as streamlined as possible (have you ever tried to open the manufacturing window with 1000s of BPs in your inventory?). Ignoring the DB ramifications, you also seem to not know that this is a game of alts, due to that the maker's mark is pretty much pointless.
Fix the Prospect! New Server Hardware!
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Danika Princip
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
4466
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Posted - 2016.06.06 22:22:20 -
[20] - Quote
Please explain how increasing the size of the database by a factor of one hundred thousand is a good change. |
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Marcus Ulpius Trajanus
Hades Innovations
1
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Posted - 2016.06.06 22:55:19 -
[21] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Marcus Ulpius Trajanus wrote:
As for the rest...yes of course you're going to need to program some things to make it work. But that shouldn't be a deterrent from making a good change.
Except it is not a good change because it would cause a large amount of database bloat for next to no gain for the game as people won;t care who made their missiles/ammo/hulls/whatever. Ammo made by my worst enemy does damage just as well as the ammo I produce.
Make the items stack-able regardless of their point of origin. Have the game "ignore" it's point of origin unless you click a particular box such as when you only want to see materials, skillbooks, modules, or ammo.
ShahFluffers wrote:I can't remember the last time I, or any of my friends, actually cared about company names or product orgin.
Is it bread? Yes. Is it made of stuff I want to eat? Yes. Is it cheap? Yes. Buy it.
Frankly, labels and product orgin are a buch of horseshit these days as the supply chains for various products share similar orgins... but are so obfuscated that it is almost impossible to truly determine it. And by that time, the general populace has gotten bored and moved on.
Not sure what bread has to do with ammo or spaceships. A better thing to compare would be cars and guns. When you buy a car do you care where it's from and who made it? Yeah you do. Of course you do.
ShahFluffers wrote:What is "good" about it?
A "good industrialist" doesn't want their name out there. Name recognition makes you a target. Moreover, all items are the same and alt chracters are a thing (embargo me? Pah, my alt does all my buying, building a shipping).
Besides vanity, I don't see a compelling gameplay reason to create database bloat.
Industrialists not wanting their name out there is besides the point. Most people don't want their ships blown up either. Does that mean we should make all the ships immune to destruction? Of course not. Yes this adds a level of risk to the game, but it's even across the board. Anyone can know who is producing and find the producer and handle it, either through diplomatic, economic or military means. That's the "good" about it.
Regarding bloat, already addressed above.
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Marcus Ulpius Trajanus
Hades Innovations
1
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Posted - 2016.06.06 22:56:06 -
[22] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Marcus Ulpius Trajanus wrote:As for the rest...yes of course you're going to need to program some things to make it work. But that shouldn't be a deterrent from making a good change. First off, you seem to be the only one who thinks it will be a good change. Second, as much as you are trying to write it off, yes this is a rather large deterrent. The smoothness or lack thereof of the UI depends on the DB being as streamlined as possible (have you ever tried to open the manufacturing window with 1000s of BPs in your inventory? If you haven't give it a try and imagine having to wait potentially 100s of times longer due to the amount of unique entries). Ignoring the DB ramifications, you also seem to not know that this is a game of alts, due to that the maker's mark is pretty much pointless.
First off:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum
Rest is addressed in the previous post.
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Paranoid Loyd
9107
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Posted - 2016.06.06 23:39:20 -
[23] - Quote
You didn't address ****.
Fix the Prospect! New Server Hardware!
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Marcus Ulpius Trajanus
Hades Innovations
1
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Posted - 2016.06.06 23:41:41 -
[24] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:You didn't address ****.
How to deal with the "bloat": "Make the items stack-able regardless of their point of origin. Have the game "ignore" it's point of origin unless you click a particular box such as when you only want to see materials, skillbooks, modules, or ammo."
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2628
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Posted - 2016.06.06 23:43:27 -
[25] - Quote
Marcus Ulpius Trajanus wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:You didn't address ****. How to deal with the "bloat": "Make the items stack-able regardless of their point of origin. Have the game "ignore" it's point of origin unless you click a particular box such as when you only want to see materials, skillbooks, modules, or ammo."
Congratulations. You have no ******* clue how databases work. |
Marcus Ulpius Trajanus
Hades Innovations
1
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Posted - 2016.06.06 23:59:48 -
[26] - Quote
All I'm seeing here is people who want to keep their production hidden because they're afraid of a little competition. Adding a little stamp on items showing who made them is hardly going to make the game implode like some of you seem to want to believe.
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Paranoid Loyd
9107
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Posted - 2016.06.07 00:03:12 -
[27] - Quote
LALALA I can't here your valid arguments because my idea is just that good
Fix the Prospect! New Server Hardware!
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Marcus Ulpius Trajanus
Hades Innovations
1
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Posted - 2016.06.07 00:04:55 -
[28] - Quote
But you actually have to have a valid argument. "This won't work cause you don't understand databases" is not it.
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Paranoid Loyd
9107
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Posted - 2016.06.07 00:10:28 -
[29] - Quote
It's really simple, you either have the unique ID or you don't, adding it means there needs to be a record of it, you can't just ignore it when you want, DBs don't work that way.
Fix the Prospect! New Server Hardware!
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Marcus Ulpius Trajanus
Hades Innovations
1
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Posted - 2016.06.07 00:11:24 -
[30] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:It's really simple, you either have the unique ID or you don't, adding it means there needs to be a record of it, you can't just ignore it when you want, DBs don't work that way.
What about the skin mechanic? Could something similar be used?
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